Coincidence or Correlation?

[Space Merchant]

8 hours ago, Witness said:

I apologize for not referencing the pages of pdf I quoted from. Had I done so, I think JTR would have realized what I was quoting. 

Would Russell have been so naïve not to know where his use of the Masonic symbolism came from, even IF he acquired from another person or religion?  Was he so unaware that the drawings he used in the Photo-Drama of Creation were mimicked from the Masons' literature and the cover of their own bible? 

 And no, I cannot separate Russell from the Watchtower, since he is the foundation of the organization’s beginnings.  He is still mentioned in Wt. articles, and no matter what he taught at the time, his ‘work’ is projected with a positive light. 

Wt 09/5/1 pp. 22-25: “Those taking the lead in the preaching work back then knew that evangelizing by sermons printed in newspapers was an effective way to spread Bible truth. In fact, by the year 1908, Russell’s weekly Bible sermons appeared in 11 newspapers with a combined circulation of 402,000.”

It appears more important to know how widespread Russell’s teachings were than WHAT he taught.

He is not “just a pastor” from another religion; this man was known as “God’s mouthpiece”, as are all Watchtower leaders, who are genuine anointed ones.  He was a false prophet that buffaloed plenty of people, and the first in the line of more to come. Deut 18:20-22

I don’t doubt your knowledge, but I do doubt your understanding of how grave it is that Russell was influenced by paganism, through the use of symbols, pyramidology, and astrology.   Unless you were a JW, you can’t know this, or how JWs should be aware that “Jehovah’s organization” has its foundation on the sand.  Matt 7:24-27  They are convinced that God was behind these leaders bringing them where they are today – into a haven of supposed “peace and security”.  1 Thess 5:3

You might check with one of the present GB members.  Rumor has it he’s well versed in using it.

Regarding page 914, he mentioned several denominations, to begin with, and then concentrated on comparing Mason theology with his brand of Christianity. 

I am well aware of Russell’s studies on the Pyramid, but thank you for your information..  How ironic that the Bible can apply to Russell’s love of “God’s Stone Witness”

“Woe to the rebellious children!
This is the Lord’s declaration.
They carry out a plan, but not mine;
they make an alliance,
but against my will,
piling sin on top of sin.
 Without asking my advice
they set out to go down to Egypt
in order to seek shelter under Pharaoh’s protection
and take refuge in Egypt’s shadow.
 But Pharaoh’s protection will become your shame,
and refuge in Egypt’s shadow your humiliation.”  Isa 3:1-3

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/davinci-freemason.php

For you said CTR "was or has taken high influence from the Freemasons", now you say "his love for God's Stone Witness", which shows you can't seem to make up your mind; the source you gave that addressed God's Stone wasn't looked into further, but I am somewhat sure that you knew this was even in the source aside from Masonry assumptions. No need to use jwfacts either, for such was debunked refuted by those who study CTR (several critical sources including the one guy who is on a warpath against any jwfact information of CTR, in addition to his dislike of man who took over after CTR), even some jws have stepped up to do the same thing, as well as other Christians. Even the Russians, for an Orthodoxy Russian Activist gave to quite a show with information to those who linked jwfacts, for not only actual information was brought up by this guy, but those who weren't even religious chose his side over what is present in any jwfacts CTR information that tries to paint the man as a Mason.

For a guy who says you never called CTR a Mason, you seem to be tapping that button ever so faintly, perhaps you already know the answer to your own thought of this deceased pastor who had left behind a legacy that is supposedly continued by several groups.

As for me, I am well aware of CTR, and as I stated before, I know a lot about Christianity's history, for that is vital for a Christian to know of their past, including all denominations. when you know much, you can see who is either close to what is true and who is far from it. I am quite knowledgeable in Christian history and scripture to back things up even, even to the point of pointing out what is not bible canon or bibically inspired by God.

Lastly, the man I stated who is on a warpath, he has run into the anti-jw troop regarding CTR, and I can tell you this, he left no stone un-turned, and he gave out strong information that pretty much threw most of what jwfacts said about CTR out the window, in addition, the guy tends to rage anytime past JW members from the early-mid 1900s are mentioned. There are quite a few that follows this guy, but because of the JWs from the older days, his criticism is on high. He can easily be found in the link posted (anything to do with CTR or conspiracy of Freemasonry) to the somewhat neutral website that consist jws, non jws, former and other Christians tend to go to whereas his comments can be found there. The guy goes by the name Reslight. There are others, JWs and Christians of other denominations (Non-Trinitarian of course) who have been stamping out false claims of CTR for a while now, so it is kind of futile to push something that has been debunked and cast aside as Old Information, for even the non-religious look into this stuff. As for the Russians, someone pointed out a jwfacts link to them regarding the JW's tower logo, again, Russian orthodox/Activist refuted this back when the videos were not blocked, which makes people tend to avoid "Anti-Religion" websites far more often than before, so to anything said on that website, there is clearly a whole other side to any claims made. What is a shame is that if the video was not blocked, I would have posted it here as evidence.

PS: If you are going to use scripture, make sure you are not within the realm of conspiracy and falsehood when it comes to speaking what is true, for it makes scripture pretty much wrong to use (Hebraic violation has some call it since you used Isaiah) if you cannot confirm said person of wrongdoing, i .e. attempting to prove that a bible pastor has been influenced by Masons/who being a member of without anything to back it up, mind you, this is like the early-mid 1900s.

If I wasn't familiar with majority of Christian Church Fathers, teachings,denominations among Christianity, then I would have instantly speculated or assume of what you are trying to sell here.

[Witness]

@Space Merchant ,

Dear Sir, 

You do your job, which you do well; and  I’ll do mine,  which is to bring to light what is hidden in the darkness (1 Cor 4:5; Rev 11:1-3) and to reveal who are, the Beasts of Revelation that persecute God’s anointed ones during the time of the end. These Beasts had their beginnings with one man's teachings, who was influenced by Satan.  It is obvious that his teachings were not sourced in God’s Spirit, evident by corrupting God’s Word with his own “fleshly” pursuits. John 8:44; Gal 6:6-8; 2 Thess 2:1-12

This was my intention in posting the video; to expose his fleshly desires, revealing who the man is under the surface that the Watchtower has so effectively buried from the eyes of JWs, yet still supported by the organization.  Eph 6:12 

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

55 minutes ago, Witness said:

@Space Merchant ,

Dear Sir, 

You do your job, which you do well; and  I’ll do mine,  which is to bring to light what is hidden in the darkness (1 Cor 4:5; Rev 11:1-3) and to reveal who are, the Beasts of Revelation that persecute God’s anointed ones during the time of the end. These Beasts had their beginnings with one man's teachings, who was influenced by Satan.  It is obvious that his teachings were not sourced in God’s Spirit, evident by corrupting God’s Word with his own “fleshly” pursuits. John 8:44; Gal 6:6-8; 2 Thess 2:1-12

This was my intention in posting the video; to expose his fleshly desires, revealing who the man is under the surface that the Watchtower has so effectively buried from the eyes of JWs, yet still supported by the organization.  Eph 6:12 

 

 

 

In all seriousness, there is no job for me to do because I already know such information because I did the research well over 8 years ago and have been in communities whereas stuff like this is talked about time and time again, resulting in being well versed in this stuff, in addition to speaking to former masons and being able to differentiate them when it comes to Christians.

You yourself haven't done anything pertain to this "job" you speak of. For you were the one who pointed people in a direction to look and read to see where you are coming from, even a source to your alleged claim and when nothing is found to support your claim, you still hold on to it as if there is any value in something that is dangerously lacking, for you pointed your claim to a single page, that bares no fruit of any kind of influence from the Masons in regards to the Pastor.

People already know who CTR is (be it religious or not), and aside from being glued to a videos made by obvious opponents and conspiracy theorists, said persons went out on their own to do the research and found out that the majority of "The Restorationist Movement", this includes the Bible Students, were not a fan of Freemasons despite even knowing some or did they practice what the Masons did (i.e. down playing Jesus, using God the Father's name alongside false gods, Blood Oaths, etc.), as CTR stated in your source "subdivided", for it applies to not only Christians, but other faiths and denominations.

I am going to assume, 110% with conviction, that you have nothing that bares convinced to your claim vs the sources I know of, even on another prominent Christian forums that agree that the pastor was not a Mason or influenced by them. You are simply doing this out of spite, and ignoring the context of what your source has to say. Therefore, you have not brought to light anything of interest, instead, a nothing burger, resulting in you still being in the dark for you will need to do proper research, and if you say otherwise, there is a plethora of sources, facts, information from other Christians, former Masons, and even Non-Religious folks, as well as proof to counter anything you say in regards to your claim, for I was awaiting a response from you that may at least peek my interest, but nothing yet, even when I asked a couple of times. But it seems all you do, and probably further on, is avoid your own claims when questioned, no one here is playing games, we are trying to get down to facts here and truth, games are for children.

To say this man alone is corrupt just shows how ill-inform you in Christology and the history of Movements that spread throughout the US and the globe, as do many I confronted before and you after you, even the Christians who has caused what is going on around the world in regards to a decline of the faith. Fleshy Desires? From a man who was born to potatoes farming immigrants is pretty vague statement when you say something without prove of it, especially if you couldn't prove any sort of influence, I already gave you one influence regarding the Pyramid and the study of Pyramidology (which predates any of CTR's works excluding the 1914 date) and from whom CTR gain the influence from when this study began boomed in the US and across the globe, which was BIG among Christian Theologians.

That being said, to say an imperfect man has corrupted the teachings of God's word without facts to back it up is rather telling, especially coming from another Christian who quotes the bible, not sure if you interpret the bible too, which you haven't in every post in this thread.

Anyways, sort of off-topic, since you address someone of whom you have no prove of being influenced by the Masons, and calling him corrupt or saying he has falsified God's word, I want to see if you are not messed up and or lacking either just to see where you stand as a Christian, to see if you are a CP or a MS based Christian, I will inform you on what those mean afterwards depending on your answer to the below.

I will ask you 4 questions since you yourself, avoided to answer me several times already, for it is only fair, and to make it even more of a challenge, it will be both bible canon history, which will show if you yourself isn't like the corrupted Christians that you mentioned.

and scripture and you assume he is corrupt, let's see if you yourself is corrupt, a test of scriptural intelligence:

• 1. Do you believe that the Bible is 100% inspired by God with pure conviction and what is the most reliable source when it comes to scripture? if Yes/No, Why? and what source is sued known to all Christians today?
• 2.Why is it that Jesus observed what is seen in the Old Testament and what for exactly?
• 3. Because of this situation you put yourself in, do you know the scriptural basis of a man or woman, Christian even, when they accuse someone of something out of spite without knowing nothing/being empty handed; at times have caused or causing harm of said person without even landing your hands on them?
• 4. Why is it that John the Baptist Baptized "his" people in the Jordan River?

You can continue to speak of CTR to prove your claims from your source (I seen the video already, debunked ages ago by Christians and even Muslims), but when you response to me, you will also have to answer these questions, since the coined "corruption" I want to see if you yourself isn't corrupted either. And I can tell you this, most Christians answer honorably.

 

There are 2 things I don't like: Trinitarians who assume what early Christians thought and defend man-made scriptures and false bible canons and Dishonest Christians who lack prove of any claims they make and or assume things without proper research, resulting in certain people bashing/insulting Christianity even harder.

[JW Insider]

On 2/3/2018 at 11:12 PM, Witness said:

It is apparently acceptable that Russel established 1914 on the measurements of the Pyramid of Giza.

You said this in the past, Witness, and I flatly denied then that Russell established 1914 on the measurements of the Pyramid of Giza. This is because it was clear that Nelson H. Barbour, a Second Adventist and former "Millerite" had already become convinced of the 1914 date even before Russell began working with him to help promote Barbour's work. The chronology that Barbour utilized to come up with 1914 was not based on the Pyramid at that time, but mostly on some now obsolete ideas about parallel dispensations with Israel. Several other commentators on Bible prophecy --even before Russell was born-- had already toyed with dates that came close to 1914, and these other commentators also did not base their chronology on the Pyramid.

Russell's first known writing about the year 1914 made use of the 2,520 years of Israel's punishment found in Leviticus (7 times)  Russell also considered this 2,520 years of Leviticus to run parallel with another period of 7 times which were represented by the period of "insanity" suffered by King Nebuchadnezzar based on Daniel 4. Both these periods were eventually merged into one period called, in effect, the "7 Gentile Times."  But even at that time, Russell indicated that there were better and clearer methods of getting to this 1914 date. That was back in 1876, before Russell had said anything about Pyramids -- and the better and clearer methods were likely based directly Russell's knowledge of the adjustment to Millerite chronology that Barbour and several other Second Adventists had accepted.

Joseph Seiss didn't write about the Pyramid until 1877. It had been written about (with a view toward "pyramidology") before, by John Taylor in 1859, by St.John Vincent Day in 1870, and Prof. C. Piazzi Smyth between 1864 and 1874 when he produced the first two versions of "Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid" respectively.

From comments that Russell made in the Watch Tower and from the the fact that the subject wasn't treated in Russell's works until the 1880's, shows that Russell had not used the Pyramid to obtain the date 1914. The "Plan of the Ages" book has indications that Russell was already interested in the Pyramid, but it didn't come out until 1886. The first real treatment of the Pyramid was clearly "plagiarized" from Joseph Seiss' book: "Miracle in Stone" (1877) but Russell didn't copy these ideas from Seiss until he added them to the book "Thy Kingdom Come" in 1891.

However, I have just completed "Miracle in Stone" for the first time a few weeks ago, and I realize now that Russell probably did use it as if it were an important, independent verification for 1914. This is because Seiss played a "teasing" game as if he had learned something from the Pyramid that he was holding back because it would come across like a prediction of the "end." He teased his readers by showing a picture of the pyramid passages he had measured, but then avoided explicitly telling the readers what that last measurement really was, because of the implication that it revealed knowledge of the actual "end." It was the same as saying, "I know something and you don't, but wisdom and prudence is keeping me from telling you, even though you could easily make a guess for yourselves by looking at the chart."

Of course what he actually said was worded differently:

• And because of this strangely feverish disability to deal with ordinary soberness respecting even the most guarded presentations on this subject of the time, when the length of the Pyramid's Grand Gallery, viewed as a symbol of our dispensation, was touched in the preceding Lectures, I purposely left the figures far in the background, couching the statement in indefinite terms . . .

Russell, of course, presented all the same information but tried to measure out those last "guarded" "indefinite" time periods as a method of trying to predict the end in 1914 and 1915.

Just how much importance Russell actually gave to the evidence is not possible to say. He never acted like the Pyramids were one of the most important pieces of evidence for 1914/1915, but he did go back to previous arguments he had made about chronology, and he began to add the Pyramid evidence as if definitive, or as if it made other arguments more sure.

[DefenderOTT]

[JW Insider]

On 2/3/2018 at 11:12 PM, Witness said:

If God was setting up an organization to restore true worship, it would not begin with falsehood and several changed dates each taught as facts with divine blessing.   From the outset, the Wt. had its foundation on lies, and lies shift to make room for more lies.

. . . The organization is Satan’s testing ground for the remaining anointed, and all others who fall into his trap.

@Witness, I know I've asked you this before and I have read your answer, but this still doesn't make sense. You are saying that God had nothing to do with setting up the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, YET somehow the same organization is Satan's testing ground for all the remaining anointed? (Note that I added the word all, to see if this is where I needed clarification.)

So, are you saying that God had nothing to do with setting it up? Or is it that God had nothing to do with setting it up to restore true worship, but set it up as Satan's testing ground? If Satan set it up, how is it that every one of the remaining anointed ended up in Satan's organization? What is it in the organization that drives all the anointed into the organization?

And assuming you were somehow correct on this point, then all the anointed remnant would somehow recognize this and leave the organization. So none of the anointed remnant is allowed to recognize this in advance of being baptized into this organization, but all of them can only recognize the need to leave after they are blinded in order to get in?

[JW Insider]

@Space Merchant, I hate to admit it, but I have never really read any of your comments on the forum until this morning. Now and then I read some of the posts by @Witness, but the only reason I ended up in this thread was because JTR is one of the persons I follow, and a notification came up, when he asked a question about the Masonic-related speech. I immediately pointed him to a link that debunks the Freemason membership. I hadn't seen that Witness already gave a link to the entire sermon/talk. I knew that the pdf on my hard drive had the talk, but it was a large pdf to post for just a few pages inside it.

So I wanted to apologise for not taking note of your previous posts. I ended up overlapping a bit with yours, mostly on the Great Pyramid.

I just wanted to say, too, now that I have read many of your posts, I really liked them. I found them to be well-informed and relevant.

Thanks.

[Witness]

On 2/8/2018 at 1:05 PM, JW Insider said:

You said this in the past, Witness, and I flatly denied then that Russell established 1914 on the measurements of the Pyramid of Giza.

Thanks, JWI, I didn’t know you had corrected me before.  Note taken.

If he read all of Smyth’s books, the first published in 1864, also writings by Morton Edgar,  who knows what he was thinking on the matter before he actually put his findings in print. The New Proclaimer’s book doesn’t mention the belief in pyramids that existed in Wt’s teachings for around 50 years, does it?  Barely was it mentioned in the old version.  Would the typical JW have known where Russell got his ideas from?  Maybe, maybe not.  When I was a JW, I was totally taken off guard when an elder told me before a Sunday meeting, “Russell got 1914 from his measurements of the Pyramid of Giza”.  I was rather shocked.  What I’m saying is, he convincingly used the pyramid to support four dates – 1874, ’78, ’81, 1914.  Research into the organization’s teachings is not a habit by the majority of JWs.  They accept what is provided, just as I did without knowing the truth. 

[Witness]

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I know I've asked you this before and I have read your answer, but this still doesn't make sense. You are saying that God had nothing to do with setting up the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, YET somehow the same organization is Satan's testing ground for all the remaining anointed? (Note that I added the word all, to see if this is where I needed clarification.)

Jesus gave us the indications of his coming with signs to look for, which Satan is well aware of.  There are two types of “signs” that would exist in the time of the end – physical, which would be found in the physical world of Satan; and the spiritual fulfillment (Rev 1:1).

The threat to Satan’s power and dominion are the anointed ones; He demands to test each one for their faithfulness to God, since the victorious ones will receive what he has now, dominion over the earth. 1 John 5:19  God allows this test just as he allowed Satan to test Job.  Luke 22:31; Acts 14:22; Matt 24:22,23; Luke 13:23,24; Matt 7:14; Mark 13:13; John 16:2; Rev 2:9,10,13,17,7,24,26,28; 6:9,11; 3:5,9,12,21,22  

God didn’t set up the test, which is seen in Job 1:12 - And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”

Which is verified in James 1:13 – “No one undergoing a trial should say, "I am being tempted by God," since God is not tempted by evil, and he himself doesn't tempt anyone.”

God gives plenty of warning for us to look for, if we care to serve him; but Satan will twist the signs in order to deceive, by concentrating on the fleshly, earthly fulfillments.    We are our own judge in a sense, by choosing either dominion, that of God’s or Satan’s.  If our heart desires to fully, faithfully serve only God and Christ, not men with their earthly ambitions, we are helped to see through the deception.  1 Cor 10:13; 1:8; Matt 6:13; 2 Pet 2:9  

Deut 30:15-19 

Would Satan test the anointed in the time of the end by what is already seen prominently in the world and recognized as dangerous by most people?  From the blessing of Holy Spirit received during an anointing, the initial truth presented by the organization is enough bait to bring in the anointed ones. 

Revelation’s prophesy plays out through the existence of the organization.

Each anointed one has faced its “beasts” or tests demanded by Satan, but not all anointed ones succeed in “conquering” it. Usually, among God’s people, the case is the minority repent for their wrongdoings.  The fourth Beast of Daniel, is the last and most deceptive, Satan’s last military ruse to tempt and destroy the anointed ones and any companions who fall into the trap. It IS the most deceptive, since Satan knows his end is imminent. Dan 7:19; Rev 13:1-4  These tests are no different than what Jesus went through to gain victory over death. Satan uses the same allurement that he proposed to Jesus; power and authority, and the love of physical pleasures. Luke 4:5-7 Those in Christ, who desire to follow in his footsteps, must also gain victory over Satan’s offers, which are all found in the beauty and the hum of the organization. The Wt. says the attack by Gog and Magog will happen by nations in the world.  But notice in Ezek 38:10-12, Satan’ evil plan comes against a peaceful people, who (apparently) dwell in safely. What does the organization offer, but God’s protection?  Rev 20:7-9 says the anointed are gathered and surrounded, which they presently are. And who is it that fills them with deceitful lies, such as pyramidology, “this generation”, 1914 and failed dates and many more deceptive teaching, but a false prophet, an organization/Beast/ and the source, Satan?  Rev 16:12-16

2 Thess 2:9-12 states that the “evil plan” of Ezek 38 is

 a strong (“effectual working operation, In the NT used only of superhuman power, whether of God or of the Devil”)

delusion. (a wandering, a straying about, one led astray from the right way, roams hither and thither, mental straying, error, wrong opinion relative to morals or religion, error which shows itself in action, a wrong mode of acting, error, that which leads into error, deceit or fraud)

The nations of the world will not offer a lying delusion to trap an unsuspecting people, who already feel they have found the truth.   

Not all anointed “kings of the earth” leave the organization as we see with the parable of the “10 virgins”, which was in my post here, Monday at 10:34 am. They side with the Beast against Christ’s “kings” in the war of truth against lies.   Isa 10:19; Amos 7:1-6; Rev 19:19; Dan 11:35  (1 Cor 4:8; Rev 1:5; 5:9,10; Rev 21:24)

The blindness that comes over all anointed ones is instigated by the false prophet, cajoling them into complacency that the organization will provide for their safety as long as their obedience remains with the organization which is also projected as obedience to God and Christ. Matt 25:5; 1 Thess 5:2,3; Jer 14:13; Ezek 13:10,16)

What causes the blind to wake up?  They sense something wrong with the organization’s teachings, they do research, they pray for understanding of truth.  Through this awakening, the process of refinement begins for all…when they choose the right path, Christ.  Isa 59:10,19-21; Ezek 14:21-23; Rev 6:8; Prov 17:3  The majority, choose to remain comfortable in what they know and desire – the organization.

If I didn't make this clear, please tell me.  

 

 

[Witness]

On 2/8/2018 at 7:35 AM, Space Merchant said:

I will ask you 4 questions since you yourself, avoided to answer me several times already, for it is only fair, and to make it even more of a challenge, it will be both bible canon history, which will show if you yourself isn't like the corrupted Christians that you mentioned.

The last time someone challenged my stand as a Christian, was for my testimony of Christ in front of an elder body.  I was disfellowshipped for turning to Christ, rejecting an organization as salvation and for rejecting false dates and prophesies that began with CT Russell.    Rev 11:1-3,4,7; 12:17;13:5,7,11,12,14-17  You appear to have the same cock-sure attitude as those who judge God’s anointed ones for refusing to accept unfit spiritual food from a wicked slave.  Matt 24:48-51. 

Believing 100% in scripture would motivate a true Christian to expose the lies, would it not? Gal 1:6-9; Eph 5:8-14; Isa 32:6-8; Luke 6:43-45

Concerning your challenge -

For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.”  Gal 1:10

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

A point about C.T. Russell and Adventist, influence. I’ve heard this countless of times, not just from opposers, and Nebuchadnezzar IV members of the Watchtower, but from within the confines of active members of the Watchtower.

LOL! What is a "Nebuchadnezzar IV member of the Watchtower"?

It's a good point that a lot of JWs and non-JWs alike just sort of assume that Russell was under the complete influence of Second Adventists, or they even assume that all of Russell's close associates were Second Adventists. I think several of the major influences on Russell came throught the writings of Joseph A Seiss, who was not a Second Adventist, nor were several of the other people who clearly influenced Russell. Russell himself had never been a Second Adventist either. He understood that there was a lot of shame among Second Adventists (especially because of the "great disappointment" of 1843 and 1844). Russell spoke about that shame. He did not want to be associated with it and sometimes spoke of his disdain of their chronology. Yet, in spite of his progress in some doctrinal areas that progressed beyond the doctrines of Second Adventists, he never totally gave up on their chronology.

3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Just because garbage has flooded the internet about the Bible Student Movement under the direction of Pastor Charles Taze Russell, in an endless smearing campaign to satisfy the status quote, about the Watchtower?

Whenever there is a tendency to elevate a man for the purpose of elevating a religion or a body of men who claim to be his "legacy," there will likely be:

1. "creature worship,"
2. a personality cult,
3. cover-ups,
4. false claims by the contemporary followers,
5. false claims and presumptuous behavior by the leader himself, and
6. dishonest historical revisionism by later followers.

To avoid this dangerous and unscriptural tendency, an honest assessment of the man himself should be promoted. To the extent that a man is elevated above what faithfulness and discretion would call for, it's a good thing when people tell the unvarnished truth about the man himself. This is no doubt why we know the unvarnished truth about the guilt of King David: a murderer, adulterer, and a man whose actions resulted in the unnecessary deaths of thousands of his own people. If someone knows that Russell was dishonest at times, or manipulative, or haughty, or egotistical or unfaithful, then this would normally not be important, since love covers a multitude of sins. But if he is being promoted as the primary fulfillment of a Bible prophecy such as the "angel to Laodicea" or "the messenger" of Malachi 3:1, then it becomes proper to consider the Bible's priority here:

• (Romans 2:29-3:4) . . .That person’s praise comes from God, not from people. . . . 3 What, then, is the case? If some lacked faith, will their lack of faith invalidate the faithfulness of God? 4 Certainly not! But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar. . .

Rather than a smearing campaign, I would recommend a historical honesty campaign.

3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

This ridiculous notion, that Pastor Russell was “influenced” by ADVENTISM is the most irresponsible narrative any “WITNESS” can consider.

It's false, in my opinion, to take it that far. Russell was highly influenced by Adventism, just as he was also highly influenced by persons who were not Adventists. But there were more Adventists among his formative associates than non-Adventists. His own views adjusted somewhat over time, too, which creates a complexity here. Also, Russell wasn't completely honest about his own avoidance of Adventism. It was apparently wishful thinking on Russell's part that he would differentiate himself far enough from the shame of Second Adventism. It's also my opinion that even careful historians like, B. W. Schulz, have gone too far in positioning Russell's doctrinal eclecticism as far away from Adventism as possible. I think it's partly in order to hold a more unique contrary position that Schulz emphasizes the differences instead of the similarities.

Pre-1876, and post-1909, one could argue with some good evidence that Russell held more non-Adventist positions than Adventist ones. But he continued to give great importance to the teachings that were most influenced by Adventists, until his death. Also, from 1877 to nearly 1909 he was constantly working through (and sometimes out of) these Adventist influences.

[JW Insider]

38 minutes ago, Witness said:

Thanks, JWI, I didn’t know you had corrected me before.  Note taken.

I wasn't stating it that way to complain that I had corrected you before. After all, no matter how strongly worded anything comes out in a discussion, these are all just our opinions. What I was saying was that when I gave my previous opinion, I was stating that Russell absolutely did not get the date 1914 from the pyramid. The reason I revisited the topic was that I didn't provide much evidence for my opinion that last time. It was just an assertion, mostly.

This time I wanted to offer some of the evidence for that position, but also to soften it somewhat by noting that there could have been a little more to Russell's thinking than what shows up in the usual evidence. That's why I wanted to bring Seiss's influence back into it, because we can't know for sure how much Seiss influenced Russell to solidify his view of 1914. Of course, it was possible to see a number extending out past 1874 in Seiss's charts, but for a while Russell still used the pyramid only to point to 1874, not 1914. You can see this from the link already mentioned above: https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/davinci-freemason.php

Thy Kingdom Come p.342 1891 Edition

Thy Kingdom Come p.342 1911 Edition

"We find it to be 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, B. C. 1542. This calculation shows A.D. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1874 years A.D. equals 3416 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1874 was the chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation-no, nor ever shall be afterward."

"We find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, B. C. 1542. This calculation shows A.D. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1915 years A.D. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation-no, nor ever shall be afterward."