Why won't the head of the wt org admit it?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

You completely missed the point that I was talking about religious authority having witch hunts, and executing the innocent.

You comment is the first time in my life I have ever heard anyone propose the accused witches accusing religious authority of being witches.

I suppose that DOES make you unique.

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I find myself  agreeing with both your premise, and conclusion

Since this is the case, you might rethink how you approach this topic.

Many of your posts would indicate - to the casual reader, which is what most of us are - that JW land should be re-labeled "Child Molesters R Us." But now you have agreed with my premise and concluson, which essentially is that children are 10 times safer in the JW community than anywhere else.

Can it really be that this is despite the headship of the present human arrangement? It is they who put the diet of spiritual teachings together through print, media, and meetings. Okay, if you somehow feel they are still messing up everything, then you could assert that children would be 15 times safer in the JW community than without them. But that is the factor that you should always highlight, for that is the factor with the most implications.

After all, were all Australia able to duplicate the success of Jehovah's organization, the country's abuse rate would be 90% lower, and they probably would not have felt a need to assemble a Royal Commission in the first place.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH:

There is nothing you can do to help the people whose have little or no reading comprehension skills when you have an open discussion with text based information.

No matter what you say, or how you say it... they will find a way to misinterpret, misunderstand, and resist any ideas that conflict with their agenda driven world view.

Knowing what we both know, to tickle their ears would just be an exercise in Ferengi "Pillowgate".

... a person who is almost universally misunderstood, misrepresented, and castigated recently said this:

12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My concern is not what happened for the very reasons you stated ... but the institutionalized coverup,  and the intimidation ... and the threats of disfellowshipping. and the ACTUAL disfellowshipping of those who wanted to go to the Police, in the decades before the time period of your analysis, and the fact that in 1006 cases actually subpoenaed from the Society's own records ... NOT ONE was reported to the police.

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My concern is not what happened for the very reasons you stated ... but the institutionalized coverup,  and the intimidation

Yes, I understand this. 

Pursue this point if you wish, but also point out, at least in a footnote, that the ones you are castigating are 10 times more successful in preventing child sexual abuse in the first place than the general Australian population.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

 

22 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Study 54 of the report, a follow-up to Study 29, makes possible an apples-to-apples comparison. Study 54 looked at the 17 instances of child abuse from the Witness organization that had been reported in the interim, from August 2015 to January 2017. Nine were historical cases and none involved an elder. All occurred in a familial setting. Of the seventeen, two had refused to report as they were adult survivors and it was their right not to report. The number of Witnesses in all Australia at the time was 67,418.

You stated " Study 54 looked at the 17 instances of child abuse from the Witness organization that had been reported in the interim, from August 2015 to January 2017."

That was AFTER the Society was caught with their hands in the cookie jar, so to speak.

Hey Dick Tracy, go back to your squad car and get the files subpoenoed from the Australian Kingdom Halls and Bethel offices showing over 5 THOUSAND cases reported to the Elders, and not ONE  reported to the police.

The true test of their INTEGRITY is how much open, honest, complete and full disclosure has been made on the JW.ORG web site, or in the Watchtower, or at the Kingdom Halls globally to the Brotherhood.

What grade would you give them on THAT?

To the best of my knowledge ... and please feel free to show me I am wrong ... not a single word of the ARC hearings has been breathed on the website.

.... or in the Watchtower.

.... or in talks at the KIngdom Halls.

It seems they are totally consumed with "Pillowgate", and explaining by specific reference why two naked brothers at Bethel, sitting in chairs across from each other, watching each other masturbate, IS NOT PORNEIA.

If you have watched the "Pillowgate" videos produced by the Society, you know THEY EVEN MADE A VIDEO FOR NEW BETHELITES .... "CLARIFYING" .... THAT!

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Like you, my loyalty is to the Jehovah, his Christ, and the Brotherhood.

Unlike you, my loyalty to its leaders is only when they deserve it.

When they deserve it is very easily determined.

It is determined by how much open, honest, complete and full disclosure has been made on the JW.ORG web site, and in the Watchtower, and at the Kingdom Halls globally to the Brotherhood, and when they are following the Christ, and not making up stuff out of thin air.

How should we honestly evaluate them, based on THAT?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Pursue this point if you wish, but also point out, at least in a footnote, that the ones you are castigating are 10 times more successful in preventing child sexual abuse in the first place than the general Australian population.

Footnote:

EVERYONE that follows the Bible's examples do better.

even atheists.

[Space Merchant]

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Since this is the case, you might rethink how you approach this topic.

Many of your posts would indicate - to the casual reader, which is what most of us are - that JW land should be re-labeled "Child Molesters R Us." But now you have agreed with my premise and concluson, which essentially is that children are 10 times safer in the JW community than anywhere else.

Can it really be that this is despite the headship of the present human arrangement? It is they who put the diet of spiritual teachings together through print, media, and meetings. Okay, if you somehow feel they are still messing up everything, then you could assert that children would be 15 times safer in the JW community than without them. But that is the factor that you should always highlight, for that is the factor with the most implications.

After all, were all Australia able to duplicate the success of Jehovah's organization, the country's abuse rate would be 90% lower, and they probably would not have felt a need to assemble a Royal Commission in the first place.

 

The sad reality is that regardless of one's faith, be it Christian, Catholic, Islam, Jewish, etc, the beliefs may differ by group/denomination, but to the world who are not as religiously savvy, not a fan of religion or worse, thinks that any religious man or woman is either a pedophile, a crazy person, an extremist, etc. For if one person of a faith and or denomination does something, people will blame the religion or the faith itself, at times, the group that the faith stems from, examples would be if a Christian does something or a Muslim does something, it is open season not on just the person, but the faith itself and the denomination, but most of all, the group(s) of which said individuals stem from, Christianity and Islam.

Outside of religion, it is the same with businesses, educational systems, and government and groups that branch off from these things. When a hacker somewhere in the basement of some apartment breaches a Wells Fargo account, every eye is on Wells Fargo, when a teacher does something immoral or violent to a student, eyes will be on the school and it's board, when the FBI let's watched persons run free who eventually will do a crime, government is to blame, but gov't always does something wrong.

[Space Merchant]

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Footnote:

EVERYONE that follows the Bible's examples do better.

even atheists.

Surprisingly, there are a few atheists who would defend what the bible says, such occasions is rare.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

How should we honestly evaluate them, based on THAT?

So now you seem to be walking back on your acknowledgement that the JW organization is 10 times more successfull in preventing child abuse than the general Australian population. Or are you? I am not sure what you are doing. It may be you just gag at the thought of saying anything good about them, though they have clearly earned it.

However, to draw an analogy that I think is parallel:

Unilke Jehovah's Witnesses, who are politically neutral, or at the very least, keep their politics to themself, you wear yours on your sleeve. You have made it very clear who you regard as the better political leader, even calling HRC the Devil.

Trump, in your eyes, is (at least) 10 times better in leadership than Hillary.

Therefore, I would expect you to be maligning and castigating him, as you do here with the ones whose record is 10 times better. Don't let anyone give him any credit for anything. Blast him away. Say something nasty about past business dealings, or comments to Billy Bush. Don't let them tell you there is nothing to Russian collusion. Dig into it!

You do not hesitate to do it and more with Christian leadership. Do it with the political leader you favor. 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Unlike you, my loyalty to its leaders is only when they deserve it.

They clearly do deserve it if their leadership oversees a 90% decrease over the child sexual abuse of the general Australian population. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH:

As usual, you have confused two things ( ...and more...) with other things that are not applicable, and instead of addressing the issues (Remember issues?  No? ... nevermind...) tried to distract with attacks against me. 

That's OK .... I find it entertaining.

I see how YOU look at the world as if everything you see is distorted by your agenda, as do you about me. 

Fair enough.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

So now you seem to be walking back on your acknowledgement that the JW organization is 10 times more successfull in preventing child abuse than the general Australian population.

My statements were crystal clear and completely unambiguous .... They can be dissected to ascertain EXACTLY what I meant to say, and the sentences can be diagrammed. to show that pictorially.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Unilke Jehovah's Witnesses, who are politically neutral, or at the very least, keep their politics to themself, you wear yours on your sleeve. You have made it very clear who you regard as the better political leader, even calling HRC the Devil.

I wear EVERYTHING on my sleeve, including long sleeve shirts and watches.  I find that being honest with everyone scares the people away whose goofiness would clutter up my life with irrelevancy .... and I lead a very content and peaceful life.

.... and as an aside .... you being wrong about almost everything ... I have NEVER called Hillary Rodham Clinton the Devil ... I merely stated as a point of relevant humor that she does not worship Satan ... Satan worships her!

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Therefore, I would expect you to be maligning and castigating him, as you do here with the ones whose record is 10 times better

You expect a LOT, TTH ... but expecting me to castigate someone who withing the limits of human foibles, has been doing everything I personally would do if I was President, with the possible exception of making dueling once again legal, and re-instituting public hangings, which I am all for ... as well as other Barbaric practices that I as an admitted Barbarian would find helpful .... there is NO REASON for me to castigate Donald Trump.

In another time, if he was my enemy, and I could manage it, I would wear his skin as a rain coat.

if however ... IF HOWEVER .. he claimed to represent Jehovah God as the Guardians of the Doctrine, as the Governing Body claims ... I would rip him a "new one"

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Don't let them tell you there is nothing to Russian collusion. Dig into it!

About that, you apparently try to keep up with politics ... so you know that in the past few weeks the "Onion" has been peeled back to reveal that Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party and their cronies are the ones that have been colluding with the Russians, and it goes all the way back to Ted Kennedy.

As of this date, Feb 25, 2018, the only "Russian Collusion" has been with HRC as Secretary of State selling U.S. Uranium to the Russians, and her financing the fake "golden showers" dossier through her lawyers and the DNC.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You do not hesitate to do it and more with Christian leadership. Do it with the political leader you favor. 

When Trump claims to be the titular head of God's Organization on Earth, and spews forth volumes and volumes of edicts on every manner of human behavior ... IN THE NAME OF GOD .... I will do exactly as you suggest.

Now that I hopefully have dispensed with this irrelevancy .. perhaps you would care to comment on any of the ISSUES and facts I presented .... or do you accept them all at face value?

Hmmmmmm?