Have JWs solved 90% of the child abuse problems plaguing the rest of the world?

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How;s THAT for Christlike?

I don't know. The hair is similar, but the cape is different.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

What I want to do is use the 10 times better figure. But @JW Insider has shown me I cannot even use the 6 times better figure without severe qualification, and he would have me drop it altogether. I will not do that, but I will put a real muzzle on it. For all I know, he did it specifically as a favor to me, so that I would not go public with stats that quickly fall apart. No matter his motive. I am grateful to him.

I can call the other side ignorant. I can assert that they do not know law and until they do they ought to keep their mouths shut. But I will not win them over that way, even if what I say is true. If I write them off as hopeless and drop down a notch to giving my brothers a tool they can use to ward off the villains, I do not do them any favors if I give them one that can be ripped to shreds.

I wonder how the following will fly as part of the Pedophile chapter, towards the end:

There is only so far you can go with the ‘6 times better’ figure. It should not be relied upon as dogma. It is processed notifications into varying levels of severity on one side vs unprocessed notifications on the other. It is  most likely that notifications from the Witness camp will break down similarly to stats overall, but this cannot be guaranteed. Small variations alter the results dramatically and large variations make it meaningless.  It is good only for a ballpark figure - the best that can be hoped for given that the ones who should have put their talents to work in ascertaining truth chose instead to bury theirs in the ground. It will have to do for now. Skewed results from data clarification doesn’t have to work against Witnesses. It could work in their favor. If notifications in the greater Australian figures outnumbered victims, that could be true in the Witness figures as well. Maybe even all 17 reports stem from a single rotter like that fellow in San Diego. Kneecap that scoundrel and we are perfect. We live in a world of buzzwords and catchphrases, few of which will endure rigorous shaking. It is enough to employ our ‘six times better’ figure as a starting bid and concede that further bids might alter the picture.

Now I must brace myself for a lecture from Captain Truth, who, when he is not quoting the founding fathers who agree with Trump, is drawing up imbecile cartoons to embarrass the brothers. 

3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Later, I campaigned to have this imposter, exposed. I got kicked out of many sites, but the TRUTH finally made its way, and he became an embarrassment to them ALL!

 

I respect this. I truly do. The only caveat I will add is that it is a little like killing a fly. 50 will come to the funeral. I tried something similar to this with AlanF. But he remained nasty throughout, impervious to all my submissions, and in the end the Librarian suggested that I should knock it off as it was getting old.

3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

I can say that ANNA and JWinsider can be the same person according to the logins.

Pursue your conspiracy theories if you must. Just stay away from A Nice Guy, Dr. Adhominem, 'Hammer' Urabi, Top Cat O'Malihan, Vic Vomidog, and Dr. Mike 'Ace' Inhibitor.  Such an above-board group of shining stars I have never seen. 

Rats!! As I am typing there appears a notice  that JWI has just chimed in. I hope he does not say something to make me want to gut everything I just said. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH, thanks for the nice representation ... I will use this picture to shave by ....

Interestingly enough, last night I ordered the complete series of "The Adventures of Superman" TV shows from the 1950s, from Netflix. It is SOOOO campy now, but Susan and I grew up watching him battle for "Justice, Truth, and the American Way !".

..... it's an acquired habit.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Actually Allen ... what was going on in the movie clip you posted, IN CONTEXT ... was magnificent, and is much to be admired by honest men of integrity and courage...... not spiritually immature children at all.

You have never to my knowledge indicated what you do for a living ... where you work, or what you do .... may I assume from all your posts that you are somehow on the staff of the WTB&TS?

My guess is that you are a Lawyer, working for them.

That would explain a LOT!

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't know. The hair is similar, but the cape is different.

The reason Superman's cape is so different from Jesus' cape is that when Jesus ascends, its fairly slowly, but when Superman takes off at hyper-sonic speeds, if he did not have the cape he has, the wind blast would rip his red "tighties" off.

( But he does have a nice shave !  In the old Superman comics he had to cut his beard growth in a mirror with his X-RAY vision.

When he looked his best, about a 150 people in the neighborhood behind Clark Kent's Apartment, at 344 Clinton Street, in Metropolis,  would get acute cancer.)

[JW Insider]

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I will give you an experience and admittedly, I am going borderline hysterics myself, like many who have contributed to this topic. Just recently a childhood friend of my son died. He left the truth as a teenager. He subsequently developed heavy addiction problems. But for the last three months he had been clean and was once again attending meetings. His mother went to pick him up on the night of the Memorial - last night. He had apparantly relapsed and overdosed. He was dead.

This is really awful. I didn't want to just ignore this. It's all the more tragic for you, it evidently being so close to home, and so recent. I don't want to trivialize it by mixing the topic of drug addiction into a conversation about child abuse statistics, but you already know that this is a huge problem in parts of the world, and we can be thankful for the protections among Jehovah's people that leave us relatively immune from so many of such problems.  

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But I  know too that opioid addiction has a 90% recidism rate. So it would have been a very fine thing, even a lifeline, had he continued coming to meetings where he could have gathered strength. And had he done that, I would not be thrilled at someone meeting him at the door and saying: "You know, we have child sexual abuse here just as much as where you come from. it might even be worse."

I see your point, and in spite of the interpretation people have imputed onto this conversation, I don't agree that our problem with child abuse is nearly as bad as is generally found on the outside. I have only disagreed with using a flawed set of numbers and apple-and-orange ratio comparisons to make the claim. And I am concerned that after being associated (in several major legal systems) with a flawed process, we might appear to be defending the flawed process. Our numbers may actually be 10 times better, or 6 times better, but we attract unnecessary negative attention by appearing to defend a process that has been used in the way it has, especially in our own organization's recent history.

My wife started a Bible study with a woman, now a sister, who had a drug abuse problem, not an addiction problem. I was asked to study with this woman's brother, who did have an on-and-off drug addiction problem. He was getting treatment, but it was a long process for him and he never managed to get to a point where he thought he was ready for baptism. If he had been baptized, he might have still struggled. But I would agree with calling the organization a "lifeline" for this type of person. Learning to rely on Jehovah to help overcome major issues with wrong desires becomes a positive habit in itself. I think he had a desire to get to a point where he could feel proud of his life, feel a purpose in life, and to some extent feel that he had a social structure and network to fall back upon in time of need. Part of what held him back, he said, is that he didn't feel worthy of association with a group of people who appeared to be ready to love him as he is and take him in as a friend. It's something I've seen in the prison work, too. Even after a baptism, some prisoners don't feel worthy of associating with the class of person that Witnesses represent to them. (For cases like this, I like the experiences such as the brother on the monthly broadcast a few months back who had been a true-to-life criminal, but speaks with joy and obvious acceptance of his past, present and future.)

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. I want them to say 'Because we make a real effort to resist child sexual abuse and have good governance to that effect, we kick it 6.3 times better than the world. And we kick opioid abuse 20 times better.

Even in the context of writing a book that could use a "study" or two for more credibility, I still don't see why you are looking for a specific number. The point is that we have made progress beyond most religions on most issues, but we always look to use the Bible as our guiding set of principles. Sometimes this makes us look a bit backward, but we stand on our record in dealing with all the issues that plague the world today. We don't dig our heels in to hang onto traditional ways of doing things, but we look to the Bible for the wisdom and counsel to meet all challenges, old and new.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Remember who you're speaking with TTH! It's NOT important to get kicked out of a shameful website. Especially one that sets the standard for putting God to shame. So, whenever, YOU, EX-BETHELITE, JTR, ANNA, AND THE LIBRARIAN want to pull the plug, that's your legal right. Mine will be to show just cause to GO-DADDY and affiliations to demonstrate with PROOF of hate speech. So, threaten all you people want, the laws of the land have changed!

Allen, I don't understand this comment at all. 

However, I owe you a debt as well. I never would have thought of inventing all my 'friends' had it not been for accusations directed towards you about aliases. JWI seems convinced that you are or have been multiple persons, but I have never spent time trying to figure it out. 

I just thought it was a cool idea, and decided I would try my own hand at it.

[A Nice Guy]

Just now, TrueTomHarley said:

I just thought it was a cool idea, and decided I would try my own hand at it.

That's right. He did. And I am glad of it.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Even in the context of writing a book that could use a "study" or two for more credibility, I still don't see why you are looking for a specific number.

"We live in a world of buzzwords and catchphrases, few of which will endure rigorous shaking. It is enough to employ our ‘six times better’ figure as a starting bid and concede that further bids might alter the picture."

The handful of people on this forum have come to live and breathe pedophile facts and counter-facts, but most of our people know almost nothing about it. They will say "Look, I am not a pervert. I don't know any perverts. I don't like perverts. I don't want to know about perverts. I think perverts are disgusting. And yet now I am called upon to be a pervert expert." It is all a huge diversion from the heart of the truth. Give them a quick retort so that they are not caught as a deer between the headlights. They can bring themselves up to speed if they see fit, as can their detractors. JohnB was dumbfounded that this issue was not on the top of everyone's aware list. I explained that it was because they have thousands of atrocities to choose from. A quick answer is enough to move everyone along.

It is not untrue as far as it goes. It simply does not address all the complications. it is like the quick answer we give our student to address a question that he has yet to build a foundation for understanding it. It is not wrong for him to ask it, and if he is persistent, we devote however much time it takes. But usually a simple answer suffices. It is even like the quick answer we give our 8 year old about the facts of life.

The analogy is not perfect. You needn't point that out. Furthermore, I may rethink it but for now I am okay with it. It is not the centerpiece of the chapter by any means. It does not represent a call-to-arms cry. I also understand that in playing devil's advocate as you do, you risk being seen as the devil. I think I know where you are coming from and I thank you for your condolances about the local tragedy.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

The point is that we have made progress beyond most religions on most issues, but we always look to use the Bible as our guiding set of principles. Sometimes this makes us look a bit backward, but we stand on our record in dealing with all the issues that plague the world today. We don't dig our heels in to hang onto traditional ways of doing things, but we look to the Bible for the wisdom and counsel to meet all challenges, old and new.

Not only do I agree with everything here, but it could almost be the Foreword for Part II of the book. I think, should you read it, you will be satisfied I do not over-rely on a number or encourage anyone else to do so.

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The reason Superman's cape is so different from Jesus' cape is that when Jesus ascends, its fairly slowly, but when Superman takes off at hyper-sonic speeds, if he did not have the cape he has, the wind blast would rip his red "tighties" off.

( But he does have a nice shave !  In the old Superman comics he had to cut his beard growth in a mirror with his X-RAY vision.

When he looked his best, about a 150 people in the neighborhood behind Clark Kent's Apartment, at 344 Clinton Street, in Metropolis,  would get acute cancer.)

Well the shaving part for Kal-El has been joked about before it was in live action and the animated series

 

Other then that it takes a green rock to keep him at bay, for Mr. Wayne is known to have done so many times and has beaten the boy scout, and others also others do causing Kal to have a bit of help.

 

Also I prefer Nightwing, the original boy wonder (Robin) over Superman and Batman combined for he is the better crime fighter..

[Space Merchant]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The handful of people on this forum have come to live and breathe pedophile facts and counter-facts, but most of our people know almost nothing about it. They will say "Look, I am not a pervert. I don't know any perverts. I don't like perverts. I don't want to know about perverts. I think perverts are disgusting. And yet now I am called upon to be a pervert expert." It is all a huge diversion from the heart of the truth. Give them a quick retort so that they are not caught as a deer between the headlights. They can bring themselves up to speed if they see fit, as can their detractors. JohnB was dumbfounded that this issue was not on the top of everyone's aware list. I explained that it was because they have thousands of atrocities to choose from. A quick answer is enough to move everyone along.

Agreed. The thing is some people who just suddenly come across child abuse assumes that the whole world does not know what it is, especially to those who do not educate children and adults on how to see the signs of abuse and how to prevent something from taking place, and instead, they take their action out on a whole group instead of the individual. 3-4 months ago, a man molested over 50 children since he was the age of 10 into his adulthood years of 18, he confessed to the police himself (the institution he worked as was not to blame for they didn't contact the police outsiders, children's parents, did), while another abuser, age 23 abused a child, only for the child, the victim to contact the police himself because the man who abused him prevented him from contacting his parents, but the victim manage to get a whole of the police, mind you, the justice system is broken and this abuse didn't go to jail, he was left off easy because the judge felt sorry for a man who sexual abused a child. Ironically when it is someone of another race and or specific religious background, they will literally throw the book at the person and criticize the group of the same faith.

That being said, even with facts and truth, sadly it will not push someone to accept it and instead they want to see the world around a group turn into ashes for those who want this to happen are the people setting the fire. But it is what it is, and seeing I, and others do handle children who suffer from these kind of things to some expect, we tend not to be oblivious to the truth as most who are uneducated about child abuse are.

It is hat it is, but in the end,we hold and know to what is true and the facts and the information that stems from the truth and nothing but the truth an the reality that is abuse.

[Anna]

@TrueTomHarley  you were Vic Vomidog too?? You got me fooled there,  I thought he was an evil apostate