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Weekend Meeting 2018-05-05

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    • By JOHN BUTLER
      I was going to add this to another topic but remembered we are told to start new topics, so I've done that.
      Hope this hasn't been added before but it would take me a month to go through all the topics to see if its on here.
      It is about the baptism of children, but I also thing it involves making children go on the ministry. 
      http://aawa.co/blog/baptism-of-children-the-issue-of-consent/?fbclid=IwAR1cwfrLr1EizagDGhW0Z_7IZV3TtWPq3CpjidqhiS6bqYZVWirxI-oK01s#comment-2071
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      This brings me to an interesting question then.
      Can anyone baptise anyone else ?  If not then it brings  us back to the Clergy Class once more. 
      So, does a person need to be part of an Organisation to be able to baptise others ? 
      If we go back to Russell or Rutherford, whichever one of them it was that said an Organisation was not needed, then did they baptise others, even though they were not part of an Organisation ?
      And another question. What makes a person a Minister of God's word ?  Or a person able to baptise others ? 
    • By The Librarian
      *** w1955 7/1 411    Christian Baptism for the New World Society *** 
      15 A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit. This shows, among other things, that Christianity is not a denominational affair, that sects have nothing to do with it. “Does the Christ exist divided? Paul was not impaled for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I am thankful I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.”—1 Cor. 1:13-15, NW. 
      *** w1966 10/1 603-4  Serving with Everlasting Life in View *** 
      15 This is what we mean when we dedicate our lives to Jehovah. We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organization. No, we dedicate ourselves to the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, our Creator, Jehovah God himself. This makes dedication a very personal relationship between us and Jehovah. 
      --------------------------------------
      *** w1958 8/1 478  Baptism *** 
      22 It is essential that with the mouth a public declaration of faith be made. Two 
      questions are therefore asked the candidates: (1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ? (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit? 23 Everyone who can answer “Yes” to these questions is eligible for baptism and should take this step without hesitation or delay. 
      *** w1960 5/15 308  "What Prevents Me from Getting Baptized?" *** 
      23 The first question is: Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ? 
      24 The second question is: On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit? 
      25 Everyone who has answered “Yes” to these two questions is eligible for baptism and should be baptized at that same circuit or district assembly of Jehovah’s witnesses. 
      *** w1973 5/1 280  Baptizing Follows Discipling *** 
      we suggest that you consider the following two questions, which are asked of 
      candidates for baptism: 
      (1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his SonJesus Christ? 
      (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit? 
      If you find that you can answer “YES” to these questions, then it would be appropriate for you to speak to the presiding overseer in the congregation of Jehovah’s witnesses with which you associate, with a view to getting baptized. 
      ------------------------------------
      *** w1985 6/1 30     Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication *** 
      The first question is: 
      On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will? 
      The second is: 
      Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization? 
      Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism. 
      *** w1987 4/15 12  Gaining Peace With God Through Dedication and Baptism *** 
      By baptism you identify yourself as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s worldwide congregation.
      *** w87 4/15 12  Gaining Peace With God Through Dedication and Baptism *** 
      Recently the two questions addressed to baptismal candidates were simplified so that candidates could answer with full comprehension of what is involved in coming into intimate relationship with God and his earthly organization.
      *** w1989 1/15 13  What Prevents You From Getting Baptized? *** 
      for the first of two questions the speaker asks them is: “On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?” Only if the individual answers in the affirmative and also understands that his dedication and baptism identify him as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization can he acceptably undergo water immersion. 
      *** knowledge 176  18 Make It Your Aim to Serve God Forever *** 
       Baptism ‘in the name of the holy spirit’ signifies that the baptismal candidate 
      recognizes Jehovah’s holy spirit, or active force, as God’s instrument for carrying out His purposes and for empowering His servants to do His righteous will in association with His spirit-directed organization.
    • By Jack Ryan
      Modern JW Baptismal question contradicts previous Watchtower claims
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      The JW Org / GB say that Armageddon is very close. They also say that Jehovah is speeding up the work in these 'last days'.
      Now, it seems I'm not one for knowing truth from lies, so people keep telling me, but this webpage/site seemed interesting to me.
       It seems to show more of a decrease in JW's, but more importantly it seems to show more of a lack of faith, or lack of action / 'works' of JW's. It also shows a large number of people leaving the JW Org. 
      If this video or page has been used before then I apologise for any repeat. But I thought it was of interest. 
      https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      I was told by some other sisters that I have to wear a black T-Shirt instead of the normal bathing suit. Is this true?
    • By Queen Esther
      Very  rare  and  never  seen  in  Europe...   a  SO  young  sister  before  her  baptism !
      But  I  saw  it  in  pic's  and  reports  -  its  really  true !!   I  will  soon  post  it  here...
      Its  great  -  how  mature  the  kids  in  Asia  and  Africa...    wow ! 
    • By Witness
      Each year in mid-summer the two little bergs in my area swell to the bursting point for a period of two short two days.  Ordinarily, the total count of inhabitants within a 15-mile range is less than 500 people.  But during what is called, the “Death Ride”, the entire county becomes a swarming nest of thousands of people and bicycles, along the major roads that traverse up the mountain passes in the area.  Many of its contestants spend every spare moment preparing for this race, and once the hint of warmth arrives in the spring, local bicyclers begin appearing along the highways in preparation for the big day. 
      For those who participate in the race, they live fully for the moment they succeed in reaching their goal of traversing their choice of 1, 2, or up to 5 mountain passes, and up to 129 miles. Everyone is a winner, according to the goal they individual set for themselves.   Even though it is considered a “killer”, the Death Ride is enjoyed for its momentary exhilarating challenge and pristine mountain setting. After this grueling bike race finishes, life returns to normal for local residents.
      Last summer, the JWs convention was entitled “Don’t Give Up” and showed a runner on the invitation to attend, which was distributed worldwide.  This year’s circuit assembly topics are “Don’t Give Up Doing What is Fine” and “Don’t Give up in Fulfilling the Law of Christ”.  What is the underlying drive behind these titles?  Well, a few days ago a JW revealed the true “race” that Watchtower members are participating in.  Within his statement, he included  “….brothers and sister that serve the org.….”    JWs, is the endurance of your faith measured by the selective avenues of the “race” you participate in when serving the organization; such as qualifying as a pioneer, or making all the meetings, or striving to be an elder, or serving at Bethel?  Do you believe reaching out to meet such goals is a ‘fine thing’, and your preaching work fulfills the law of Christ?  Ironically, this is exactly what your dedication at baptism expects of you.
      A new Watchtower magazine (3/2018) addresses baptism, just in time for this year’s upcoming summer convention.  It focuses on potential candidates but especially targets children; preparing them for the ritualistic baptism into the organization.  You must be aware, JWs, of Watchtower’s spurious and hypocritical teachings regarding this critical step, which they promulgate as entering the race leading to eternal life. 
      Watchtower quote: “Yes, it seems that hundreds of his followers were present when Jesus gave the commission to make disciples. Jesus thus revealed that baptism would be a requirement for those who accept the yoke of Christian discipleship. (Matt. 11:29, 30) Anyone who wished to serve God ACCEPTABLY would have to acknowledge and accept Jesus’ role in the outworking of Jehovah’s purpose. After doing so, that person could get baptized. THIS WOULD BE THE ONLY WATER BAPTISM HAVING GOD’S APPROVAL."
      Let that sink in a moment.  One’s dedication to God must not be enhanced in any form, by additional words of men, or it loses God’s approval by transgressing His purpose, and the law of Christ. 
      As the magazine states: “After all, it is each individual’s dedication, baptism, and FAITHFUL SERVICE TO GOD that will bring him in line for being MARKED FOR SALVATION during the coming great tribulation.” —Matt. 24:13. Par 16
      At one time many years ago, the organization followed scriptural direction when baptizing individuals, but since 1985 the questions had been altered to include dedicating oneself to the organization. Yes, deceitful men have added a footnote to your acknowledgments of Watchtower’s pagan ritual.    Under the article’s topic, “Baptism, Requirement for Christians” it addresses the first question only, asked of each candidate:
      “On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?”
      It then quotes Matt 16:24 “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and keep following me”.
      What does it mean to pick up our “torture stake” and follow Christ?
       Pearl Doxsey’s article entitled “Dedication – Happiness” states:
      “Imagine that you hear, or read on the news,
      that a race is approaching which guarantees the winner a prize of unlimited wealth, health, a removal of all life's problems, and happiness. (2Cor.1:22; 5:5; Eph.1:14; Heb.6:10; John3:33; 10:10 B; 1Cor.2:9; Rev.21:4,5).

      You also learn that your father greatly desires for you to have this prize, due to his love for you (John3:16; Luke11:13; John16:27; 1John4:8; Isa.49:15). He promises to contribute his own resources to support you, guaranteeing success (should you accept the challenge) (Phil.4:6,13; 1Cor.1:8,9; 10:13; 2Pet.2:9; 2Chron.16:9 A; Rom.8:37; Heb.4:16).

      But then the race is described to you. It is grueling, long, and perilous (Acts14:22; Luke13:24; 2Tim.3:12; 2Cor.4:9; 6:4; 1Thess.3:3; Heb.10:32,33; Rev.1:9).
      It will demand tremendous dedication, self-control, endurance, and sacrifice (1Cor.9:25; 2Tim.2:5; 1Pet.1:13; 4:7; 1Thess.5:6,8; Titus 2:12).

      Does the race lead to short-term happiness? Certainly not!
      But then what if you heard that winning is possible and that everyone who crosses the finish line, wins? (2Tim.1:12; 4:7,8; James1:12; Matt.24:13)

      For those chosen by God (Isa.66:21; 1Pet.2:9), this race also includes accepting an assignment of work (2Tim.4:5; James2:17,20; 1Cor.3:8,13,14; Acts.10:42; Matt.16:27; 9:37,38; 25:19; 1Pet.2:5; Mark9:35; Luke12:35,43; Rom.12:6,7,8). That work must be done during the race. In addition, all runners must deal with an opposer and his cohorts, who constantly do all they can to make the road to the finish, impossible (Rev.2:10; Eph.6:12; 1Pet.5:8,9; Luke18:26,27). (4womaninthewilderness)
       
      When an individual joins the organization, the “race” one enters is not based on a dedication to Christ or the Father, but on serving an organization, which was made clear by the JW’s comment above.  However, Watchtower calls it, serving God; and they do it thusly:
      “When presenting themselves for baptism, such new disciples confirm that they have disowned themselves and are determined to serve God with all their strength, means, and abilities. (Rom. 12:1) FOR THESE REASONS, BAPTISM CANDIDATES ARE ASKED TO CONFIRM THAT THEY HAVE DEDICATED THEMSELVES TO JEHOVAH TO DO HIS WILL.”
      How is this asked of JWs?  The second question not mentioned in the article to the unknowing candidates is:
      “Do you understand that your dedication and baptism IDENTIFY you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with GOD’S SPIRIT-DIRECTED ORGANIZATION? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."
      Simply, this type of water baptism does not have God’s approval, but God’s condemnation.  I hope you can perceive this, JWs. Watchtower’s allegations go beyond Christ’s words, expecting your devotion to another Master.  Matt 6:24; Deut 4:2; 12:32; Rev 22:18   Please, notice how you are “marked”, not for survival but for slavery to men and their self-driven desires for unrighteous gains.  Jer 17:10-13 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6%3A24%3B+Deut+4%3A2%3B+12%3A32%3B+Rev+22%3A18%3B+Jer+17%3A10-13+++&version=NIV
      From the 1950 Watchtower publication, “This Means Everlasting Life”:  “When a justified believer is baptized into the “body of Christ” and so becomes a member of the Theocratic organization, he comes under Christ Jesus the Head and so comes under certain responsibilities and cannot act independently of the one whom God as made Head of the organization to direct it.  HE MUST SUBMIT HIMSELF TO ORGANIZATION INSTRUCTIONS…”  p. 126
      I am appalled at these words I have come across.  They admit to the early beginnings of the “trampling” of the Temple of God – the anointed priesthood and Body of Christ. Matt 24:15;Dan 9:27;11:31; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3   Watchtower’s “theocratic organization” empowers a false priesthood to demand obedience to itself, as a “god”.  It is the counterfeit to the Body of Christ – the Body of Satan. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A15%3BDan+9%3A27%3B11%3A31%3B+2+Thess+2%3A3%2C4%3B+Rev+11%3A1-3%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%3B+1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22++&version=NIV
       Pearl Doxsey – “The GB has laid a new foundation for themselves...
      They have made themselves the cornerstone (Phil.2:6; 1Cor.3:11), being benefactor to a NON-anointed Organization of counterfeit priests (Rev.13:14,15; 19:20)...
      creating a foreign temple to a "foreign god" (Dan.11:37,38,39; Rev.9:11; 13:8,15; Eze.8:5,6,7,8,9,10).
      They have erected a counterfeit Mt. Zion (Rev.8:8; Zech.4:7,9), (Isa.2:2,3)
      and a decoy "Kingdom" while Satan yet rules.”
      (From “Discerning the Body-A God of Order”)  4womaninthewilderness
      Please, I ask you to consider, JWs; that you, and the authentic, anointed Body of Christ, have picked up the wrong torture stake.  Not until it is realized what “mark” you bear, does the real torture stake then present itself.  Your “opposer and cohorts” will come into focus, if you choose to enter the authentic race leading to life. Jer 17:1;  Rev 13:1,3,4,10-17; Exod 20:1-7; Luke 4:8 
      The race JWs presently run, their comparative “torture stake” in a “spiritual paradise”, is soon to come to an abrupt, and tumultuous end.   1 Thess 5:3; Rev 6:12-17; 8:8; Zech 4:7; Job 9:5,6; 14:18-22
      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jer+17%3A1%3B++Rev+13%3A1%2C3%2C4%2C10-17%3B+Exod+20%3A1-7%3B+Luke+4%3A8%3B+Rev+6%3A12-17%3B+8%3A8%3B+Zech+4%3A7%3B+Job+9%3A5%2C6%3B+14%3A18-22++&version=NIV
      (Mark of Slavery 4womaninthewilderness)
      I wrote down these thoughts just this morning when reading James chapter 1:  
      When we wake up to Wt.’s deceptions, mulling over in our minds how to deal with them; we have two choices; to either step onto the course leading to life by slaving only for God, or settle with our conscience and continue running Wt’s categorized routes, explicitly showing faith in the organization as salvation.   Deut 6:6,8; 11:18; Exod 13:9  When this choice is apparent, it is then that the Beast/org.’s threatening stance looming over us, is perceived.  Can we bear being called a “loser” by the Beast and everyone we love if we draw out of the race? Matt 5:11; Rev 11:7;13:15  Who really is it, that loses out on eternal life?  
      Tonight, I find this comment regarding a JW “sighing and crying over the detestable things” in the organization (Ezek 9:3,4):
      “Whoever the bozo is that wants to quit...go ahead and do it loser. You are "already gone"
      “A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.  And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those WHO WORSHIP THE BEAST (organization) AND ITS IMAGE, (spirit-directed “Jehovah’s organization) OR FOR ANYONE WHO RECEIVES THE MARK OF ITS NAME.” 
      This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who KEEP HIS COMMANDS AND REMAIN FAITHFUL TO JESUS.”  Rev 14:9-12
      “Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.”  James 1:12
      “You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.  For, ‘In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.’
      38 And, ‘But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back.’  39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.” Heb 10:36-39
       
       
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
    • By Jack Ryan
      In the Gospels we find John the Baptist baptizing people in the Jordan River. But where did the concept of Baptism originate? Was this a command from God that we are not told about? Did John develop the concept of Baptism? Was baptism being done before the New Testament? Why was John baptizing people in the Jordan River? Because the Bible is silent on these issues, Churches have created their own doctrines concerning baptism.
    • By The Librarian
      Russian Orthodox ice water baptisms
       
       
      And they call JW’s “extremists”???
      Via
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Our brother is enjoying the moment with his parents after his baptism in Maui. 
       
       

    • Guest Nicole
    • By Outta Here
      This subject has arisen under another thread:
      As this issue takes the previous discussion off topic, a new question is asked here,
       
      see also:
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Our dear sister  lshe is happy to see her  mom and dad getting  baptized at the  Regional Convention, this makes her faith grow. 

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
    • By Bible Speaks
      The set of Likasi is regional French-speaking, Democratic Republic of the Congo in Katanga province.. We welcomed 41 new baptized to an audience of about 2,000 people.   Es el conjunto de Likasi expresión francesa regional, República Democrática del Congo, en la provincia de Katanga. Dimos la bienvenida a 41 nuevos bautizados a una audiencia de cerca de 2.000 personas. Merci beaucoup M!
    • By Bible Speaks
      The set of Likasi is regional French-speaking, Democratic Republic of the Congo in Katanga province..
      We welcomed 41 new baptized to an audience of about 2,000 people.
      Es el conjunto de Likasi expresión francesa regional, República Democrática del Congo, en la provincia
      de Katanga. Dimos la bienvenida a 41 nuevos bautizados a una audiencia de cerca de 2.000 personas.
      Merci beaucoup M!
    • By Bible Speaks
      @yngbld6 shares with us: “My son Aaron, @the.8ran.15, giving his Mom and me a big hug after his baptism at the Regional Convention in Huntsville, Alabama, USA.”
    • By Jack Ryan
      Seven and nine year olds making a life long decision which could mean their families may kick them out of the house in their late teens and shun them.
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Baptize Witnesses Today -- Men of Jehovah's Witnesses leaving beach to wade into water about 300 feet out for baptism by immersion. Scene was Orchard beach in Bronx. June 21, 1958. (Photo by William N. Jacobellis/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Minister of the Jehovah's Witnesses aid in the baptism of some of the 524 converts to the faith in a pool set up at Belmont Park Race Track. The baptism is a high-light of the four-day Witnesses Divine Sovereignty assembly, which ends tomorrow. August 08, 1975. (Photo by Nury Hernandez/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
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