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Jehovah's Witnesses WorldWide Budgeting Meeting 2016-2020


Jack Ryan

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:
  • To make these thin offset printing plates to produce My Book of Bible Stories and other literature published by the Watchtower Society, photographs had to be taken of proofs of linotype-produced pages. The film negatives were then merged with negatives of the pictures or illustrations. It was this slow, mechanical, prepress system of producing type from hot lead that needed to be replaced by some faster method. A group of Jehovah’s Witnesses investigated how to do this.

That investigative "group" was pretty much completely disfellowshipped.

Justice you only get from God.

Any committee, like an insect,  is usually a life form  that has at least  six legs, and very little brain.

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I do recall an announcement, I think quoted quite  publically, as at a district convention or circuit assembly, around 1980, to the effect that Bethel just finished massive expenditures on letterpress

It's really quite simple ....... Overlapping Donations.

I think you are right. It was around 1980. And remember that team (group) mentioned in the Awake! magazine you quoted? *** g84 4/22 pp. 22-23 MEPS—An Exciting Leap Forward in Publishing ***

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"The hand of Jehovah is short, is it?" I fear there are many on the Internet who would answer 'Yes'

"Grab 300 men and go take out the Midianites." I fear there are many on the internet who would say: "You're nuts."

'Mum's the word with regard to Rabshekah. Don't open your mouth, you on the castle wall.' I guarantee there are many who would say: "you are just trying to muzzle us to protect your own rear end and reputation. If you hadn't have mismanaged this show, none of this would have happened!"

Did they overreach some? If so, they will have to pull in somewhere and that will not be painless. Maybe when they publish those ubiquitous photo's of husband and wife pulling their hair out grappling with the bills, they are thinking of more than John and Mary Q. Publisher. So be it. All has been for the advancement of the good news. Besides, maybe relief will come from some unanticipated source.

I really worry when I see all the grousing online over the GB. To modify Paul's words to the Galatians: "You are bitching over this, and bellyaching over that. I really fear for you, that somehow I have toiled in vain over you."

The other verse about 'Jehovah preserved them through the Red Sea, but afterwards destroyed some not showing faith?' So the 40-year  trek is a template for today. And it was constant going weak at the knees and crying over leadership that the verses offer up as examples of not 'showing faith.' It's the wilderness slog back then. No one said it was the French Riviera cruise ship.

If you don't fill the Kingdom Halls up, it makes perfect sense to consolodate some, and use the proceeds elsewhere, to build where there is overcrowding, in the home country or overseas, where one dog of an underperformer can finance 100 new Halls.  Of course that will cause inconvience. It still beats pounding sand in the desert. The only enduring objection to this move is brothers getting 'proprietary' and focusing on self.

Christianity is nothing if not focusing on the good of all, and not just one's immediate advantage. We only go to the building twice a week. Is a longer drive truly the end of the world? 

With all the sniping, I worry that there may well come some moment where Jehovah directs something or other through those taking the lead, as he has in the past, and sullen-like, the grumblers refuse cooperation, and it works to their detriment. Sort of like Korah, who refused to be summoned.

From all that I read in verse, God has always cut considerable slack to those taking the lead, and little to those who would grouse over it. When there is correction for those leading, it doesn't come from "the people." What! Witness or someone is going to storm the Bastille, release the 'true annointed" and lead an insurrection to guilotine the ones now presiding? I don't think so. I mean, I can picture her attempting it, but I can't picture God blessing it.

For crying out loud, one can always return to where they get visions that the head guy needs yet another jet airplane so we won't have to stop for gas, or where he decides to guarantee the bottom line with a decree that everyone must tithe.

 

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55 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I really worry when I see all the grousing online over the GB. To modify Paul's words to the Galatians: "You are bitching over this, and bellyaching over that. I really fear for you, that somehow I have toiled in vain over you."

Balance is always good, and I know that's probably what you are looking for. There will be some who make note of an error (aka "bellyache") to deny the elders assigned to the GB any credibility at all, and there will be some who make note of an error (aka "bellyache") just to remind us where we should ultimately look to always find credibility. And to some, making note of any error on the part of respected elders is the equivalent of apostasy and poison.

We don't disdain any older men or dismiss them for their failures, because we all fail many times, and if any of us were given the same responsibility I dare say we would fail as soon as we started.

But does this mean we should not take notice of the errors of even our most respected elders? How would we know if they meet the qualification "free from accusation" if we always ignored any accusations?

I think the answer is found in the Bible in just about every place where elders and those who take the lead are mentioned. We are asked not to severely criticize, but never asked not to criticize. Notice:

  • (1 Timothy 5:17-21) 17 Let the elders who preside in a fine way be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching. 18 For the scripture says, “You must not muzzle a bull when it is threshing out the grain,” also, “The worker is worthy of his wages.” 19 Do not accept an accusation against an older man except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 20 Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest. 21 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels to observe these instructions without any prejudice or partiality.

Paul instructs a very young elder, Timothy, to be careful about accepting an accusation against an older man, but not to ignore it, and in fact to accept it if the evidence is verifiable. So when Paul goes on to say he should "reprove before all onlookers" those who practice sin, the context is reproving "ALL" even if they be older, more respected elders. In fact, Paul adds the counsel that he needs to observe these instructions "without prejudice or partiality."

What is even more interesting to me, is that the other famous time when Paul mentions counseling older men without prejudice or partiality, he is referring to reproving the "Governing Body." That's in fact, the very context of Galatians, where we teach that those highly respected elders that Paul spoke about here were the Governing Body at Jerusalem. Normally, when Paul speaks of accusing an older man, he does not speak in abusive terms, but when it comes to the Governing Body, all bets are off. Note another paraphrase of Galatians which actually reflects very accurately what Paul was conveying:

  • (1:6-9) "There are certain people from the Governing Body at Jerusalem that are causing you trouble, and I'm surprised that you weren't able to see through the distortion. Sure, you might say, but they are the Governing Body at Jerusalem, 'Why should we question them?' Because, I say, I don't care if it's we or even an angel out of heaven speaking declaring anything different from the Biblical good news, let him be accursed. Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.
  • (1:10-20 ) Now you might say, but Paul, surely even you had to accept the authority of the Governing Body at Jerusalem, didn't you? How could you have an apostleship if the Governing Body didn't approve it? But that's not true at all! That's crazy! You think it's men whom I need the approval of, or God? You think this message I've been preaching came through the Governing Body? No! When God chose to reveal the good news to me, I did not immediately consult with any human; 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before I was, but I went to Arabia, and then I returned to Damascus. In fact, it was THREE WHOLE YEARS before I even saw ONE member of the Governing Body, Peter. And even then, I only stayed with him for two weeks. And I didn't see ANY of the other apostles, just James. I swear, I'm not lying! Nobody even got to know me around Jerusalem and Judea.
  • (2:1-4) I never met with the Governing Body until I had already been preaching for FOURTEEN YEARS! And even then it was because I had a revelation to tell THEM. It wasn't that the Governing Body had anything useful to tell me! The whole reason I went is because the Governing Body was making a serious mistake.
  • (Galatians 2:4-14) 4 But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us; 5 we did not yield in submission to them, no, not for a moment, so that the truth of the good news might continue with you. 6 But regarding those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me. 7 On the contrary, when they . . .  recognized the undeserved kindness that was given me, James and Ceʹphas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars, gave Barʹna·bas and me the right hand of fellowship, so that we should go to the nations but they to those who are circumcised. 10 They asked only that we keep the poor in mind, and this I have also earnestly endeavored to do. 11 However, when Ceʹphas came to Antioch, I resisted him face-to-face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12 For before certain men from James arrived, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcised class. 13 The rest of the Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Barʹna·bas was led along with them in their pretense. 14 But when I saw that they were not walking in step with the truth of the good news, I said to Ceʹphas . . .

Of course, on the one hand we are supposed to be "imitators of Paul." But when it comes to imitating the way in which Paul found fault with the Governing Body, we would more likely hear: "Who do you think you are? The apostle Paul?" So there is probably some lesson and some balance that we are supposed to get out of this message in Galatians. But in any case, it's up to all of us as Christians to remain alert to what the respected older men are saying, because they are needed to take the lead in the example they set for the rest of us. We would never get in any trouble if they told us, this week we take the message to streetcorners, this week we take it to Russia, this week we take it from house to house, this week we give food and supplies to victims of this or that natural disaster, this week we collect coats for the homeless, soup for the unemployed, this week we will clean the Halls, this week we will meet in a convention. The primary thing to watch, just as with the Galatians, is whether the message is being distorted.

  • (1 Timothy 6:3, 4) 3 If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. . . .
  • (Titus 2:1, 2) 2 You, however, keep on speaking what is consistent with wholesome teaching. 2 Let the older men be moderate in habits, serious, sound in mind, healthy in faith, in love, in endurance.

    (1 Timothy 4:1, 2) 4 However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.

    (1 Timothy 3:7) 7 Moreover, he should also have a fine testimony from outsiders so that he does not fall into reproach and a snare of the Devil.

  • etc. etc.

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17 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Moreover?

You should not think I am speaking specifically of you. (Nor should you think I am not) I am deliberately vague, not pointing fingers because A. I don't want to point fingers, and B. I don't want to come off as cocksure as though I know who to point them at. It is a general observation I make that fits in with the overall topic of this thread, but should not be taken as aimed at anyone specifically.

Moreover, I am considerably grateful to you. You have set me straight on several points over the months and the writings I have released are much better for it.

P.S. I am allowed to put verse in today's vernacular. That doesn't mean you are. :) (are YOU the Librarian's favorite pupil, or am I?)

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3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The issue is ... are they being honest to the people that are paying for them.

Yes, because unfortunately so far one has been finding out things from 3rd parties, and most are false,  but just to complicate things, some turn out to be true.  So in my humble opinion it would be better if we were informed directly in the first place, so that we could happily ignore information from those 3rd parties......transparency is the word.

 

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