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Should we close our ears to rebels? or opposers?

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bh chap. 11 pp. 110-112 pars. 12-15 - Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever....student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. What should the teacher do?....suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem...he knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class....consider two things that the teacher in our illustration would not do............he would not stop the rebel student from presenting his case.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

kilometer.jpg

Possibly fake, but even if it is, it recreates real experiences children have had with teachers.

 

We've all been there and done that. Most Witnesses have come from a false religious background. I came from a Roman Catholic background and had aspirations of becoming a nun. I associated with nuns after school, cleaned the classrooms and sang in the choir, so my background was fully vested in the teachings of the Trinity, immortal soul, hellfire, purgatory, limbo, Jesus was Catholic, the infallibility of the Pope - he was god on earth.

But a life changing experience happened one day, a man came to our door and began to show my mother scriptures proving his point on the areas they discussed. My mother, a strong person who also had deep respect for the Bible listened and in that discussion something touched her heart.

The young man had his mother revisit my mother and discussed what had previously been initiated by her son. Within the same time frame a Seventh Day Adventist was visiting my mother voicing her version of scripture and offering a Bible study. My mother, in order to make her decision on which one to choose, asked each one to explain what the Sabbath meant and should it still be enforced as in the Law.

She listened and looked up Scripture and there was no comparison in teaching, she was confident that Jehovah's Witness had the TRUTH of the matter. She began to study the Bible and was baptized in 1952. My mother began to speak about the Bible to her siblings (who were all different religions and scattered around the U.S.) they began to study the Bible and were baptized at different times and places.(4 brothers, 2 sisters and her father and her three children)

So we've been there and indoctrinated in a variety of different religions before a selfless individual came to our door in obedience to Jesus command at Matthew 19:28,29. Yes, that Good News is being preached in 239 Lands and Islands and in over 900 languages - in over two hundred thousand congregations worldwide.

The noise that you hear on the internet cannot drown out the preaching of the Good News and the gathering of the sheep. Jesus said: John 10:3" But the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep. The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. 5 They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

 

Apostates and other opposers are very busy in these days and the scripture tells us why Ezekiel 29:4 " And I will put hooks in your jaws and cause the fish of your Nile canals to cling to your scales. And I will bring you up out of the midst of your Nile canals and all the fish of your Nile canals that cling to your very scales. 5 And I will abandon you to the wilderness, you and all the fish of your Nile canals. Upon the surface of the field you will fall. You will not be gathered up nor be collected together. To the wild beasts of the earth and to the flying creatures of the heavens I will give you for food. 6 And all the inhabitants of Egypt will have to know that I am Jehovah,"

 

Yes Indeed! Jehovah has put the hooks in the jaws of Satan and his demonic cohorts and they cannot turn back and as Ezekiel's prophecy makes clear, it is for one reason - identify and destroy.

 

As the apostle Paul points out at 2Corinthians 4: 3 "If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."

 

 

 

 

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In a sense Jehovah's Witnesses are like Alex. They did not stay under the authority of the major religions like the Catholic Church, but examined the matter of what the real authority the Bible said, regardless of the consequences,  whereas the majority of persons accept the authority of the Church and its erroneous teachings and refuse to look any further. 

Hosea 4:6 shows that people will be silenced for lack of knowledge.  Second Thessalonions 1: 6-9 shows that people will undergo judicial punishment because of not knowing God and not obeying the good news. The case above shows the good sense of letting the real authority of the Bible speak. God's true sheep know the sound of the  truth/his voice.  Look at the amazing fruit that resulted when one honest-hearted lady  helped her family to know the truth as well. 

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On 6/17/2018 at 10:41 AM, Jack Ryan said:

bh chap. 11 pp. 110-112 pars. 12-15 - Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever....student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. What should the teacher do?....suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem...he knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class....consider two things that the teacher in our illustration would not do............he would not stop the rebel student from presenting his case.

 

We are not following worldly advice, we let the Scripture, as an unfailing prophetic book, be the guide.

Galatians 1:6  "I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed."

 

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HMMMM!!

 

"The one walking with the wise will become wise, But the one who has dealings with the stupid will fare badly." Proverbs 13:20

"Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough?"  1 Corinthians 5:6

 

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Melinda, I implore you to reason on your words.  

On 7/15/2018 at 7:42 AM, Melinda Mills said:

In a sense Jehovah's Witnesses are like Alex. They did not stay under the authority of the major religions like the Catholic Church, but examined the matter of what the real authority the Bible said, regardless of the consequences,  whereas the majority of persons accept the authority of the Church and its erroneous teachings and refuse to look any further. 

 

How is your example of the Catholic Church any different than the Watchtower?  For any who reject teachings such as “this generation”, the Armageddon dates that have come and gone, and Watchtower’s desire to put a manmade organization on a pedestal as the source of salvation, and which they proudly call “earthly Zion”, disfellowshipping ensues.  Any failed teaching gives evidence of lack of knowledge from God.  James 1:16-18  Failed doctrine has no relationship with Christ’s truth nor is it good news, but only stumbling forecasts made by stubborn priests already “defrocked” in the eyes of God.  They have haughtily rejected Christ as their head, usurping his authority by expecting obedience of all Christ’s anointed priests, to be given to them.   Ezek 21:25-27; Matt 23:12; 24:24

Here is your comment from a different perspective:

In a sense exJWs are like Alex. They did not stay under the authority of religions like the Watchtower organization, but examined the matter of what the real authority the Bible said, regardless of the consequences, (regardless of being disfellowshipped)  whereas the majority of persons accept the authority of the Watchtower and its erroneous teachings and refuse to look any further. 

Feb 12, 2012  Calvin Rouse, lawyer for the Watchtower in the Menlo Park kingdom hall lawsuit:

“We are a hierarchal religion structured just like the Catholic Church. And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest -- in the parish.”

This set of “consequences” affects anointed ones – the “holy priesthood” of God, as well as many others who have recognized the sound of Christ’s Truth. When choosing Christ’s full authority over men, they can distinguish between the rotten fruit of false/failed doctrine, and fine fruit sourced in Christ. John 15:1-8   Why is it, that the majority of JWs cannot recognize it?  Why is it that God’s anointed priests still inside, turn a blind eye to such falsehood?  Why do they not perceive THEY are the true Zion and that their hearts are the dwelling and Temple of God? 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Eph 2:20-22; Zech 8:3  Simply because they have filled their mind and heart with teachings/”fruit”/”wine” from false leaders, - harlots -  just like the Catholics who listen to the pope. John 7:18; Matt 7:15,16; Jer 2:21; Deut 32:32,33; John 15:5,16; Rev 17:1,2

But in this case, it is gravely serious, because these priests are God’s chosen people.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22

You said, 

“Hosea 4:6 shows that people will be silenced for lack of knowledge.” 

But let no one bring a charge,
    let no one accuse another
,
for your people are like those
    who bring charges
against a priest.

 (a Judicial committee of false “priests”/elders who are not anointed, judging God’s anointed priesthood as “spiritually dead” for accepting Christ as their Head, instead of a “wicked slave. Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 13:  Matt 24:48-51)


You stumble day and night,
    and the prophets stumble with you.
So I will destroy your mother—
    my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

“Because you have rejected knowledge,
    I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
    I also will ignore your children.
The more priests there were,
    the more they sinned against me;
    they exchanged their glorious God for something disgraceful.
They feed on the sins of my people
    and relish their wickedness.
And it will be: Like people, like priests.
    I will punish both of them for their ways
    and repay them for their deeds.

10 “They will eat but not have enough;
    they will engage in (spiritual) prostitution but not flourish,
because they have deserted the Lord
    to give themselves 11 to prostitution;
old wine and new wine ( old light, new light)
  take away their understanding.
12 My people consult a wooden idol,
    and a diviner’s rod speaks to them.
A spirit of prostitution leads them astray;
    they are unfaithful to their God.

Do JWs allow a spirit of prostitution to lead them astray?  Yes.  False prophets/Harlots have convinced you to “serve the organization”, transposing this to mean, serving God. Rev 13;1,4,7,8,11,14-17 Nothing on this earth is to be compared to, or served, except God and His Son.  Isa 42:8; 46:5,20; Luke 4:8; Rom 6:16 The apostles didn’t “serve” the needs of an organization, but they wholeheartedly served God and Jesus. Matt 6:24  Where does it say in the scriptures that an organization, other than the ‘organized’ anointed Body of Christ, the Temple of God, must be recognized as the pathway to salvation? Ps 2:6; Ezek 20:40; Rev 14:1   God and Christ both have absolutely no interest in earthly wealth, investments, or buildings that thrive in Satan’s world. Matt 6:19-21; Acts 17:24,25; Phil 3:19; Col 3:2  His only “investments” are those members of Christ’s Body; where His Holy Spirit dwells, as well as the hearts of those seeking pure Truth through His Son.  John 14:23

On 7/15/2018 at 7:42 AM, Melinda Mills said:

The case above shows the good sense of letting the real authority of the Bible speak. God's true sheep know the sound of the  truth/his voice. 

I would hope we are speaking of the authority of God and Christ, and not that of the governing body.  For them to say that God is responsible at any point in time, for Watchtower’s wayward teachings is an absolute lie; yet, they are guilty of doing so.  Did they let the real authority of the Bible speak, or was it from their own desires?  Ezek 13:3  JW have been disfellowshipped for bringing this to the attention of the elders.   

Is it possible for any JW to read scriptures in support of this truth, and take it into their heart?  Or, is the plentiful “fruit” of false teachers more desirable to “eat”?  It is easy to say one relies on the authority of the Bible; JWs are convinced they do, forgetting all the “bible-based” discarded books and teachings that are no longer in use. 

“God’s anger is revealed from heaven against every ungodly and immoral thing people do as they try to suppress the truth by their immoral living. 

They knew God but did not praise and thank him for being God. Instead, their thoughts were pointless, and their misguided minds were plunged into darkness. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools.

These people have exchanged God’s truth for a lie. So they have become ungodly and serve what is created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen!  Rom 1:18,21,25

JWs, you believe you are out of the woods and have left false teachings behind; but you can’t see the forest for the trees.  These particular “trees”/teachers that you seek shelter under, waiting for their spiritual “food” to drop, have an axe waiting at the base of their bitter roots, to chop them down.  Jer 23:15; Matt 3:7-10; Heb 12:14-17;Rev 8:10-11; Rev 19:20

 

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You must be a disfellowshipped person, HUH ? You should be supremely happy - you are now on the outside looking in so  stop pressing your nose against our windows.

Did you want followers? All those who choose to follow a Judas goat will be led to the slaughter.

Sheep, on the other hand, hear the voice of the Fine Shepherd calling their name. John 10:3 "The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. 5 They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”

 

So you were preaching false doctrine in the kingdom hall to Jehovah's Witnesses? Not a very smart move. Then you thought it appropriate to exhibit your mad ravings to the elders and were disfellowshipped for being an apostate. I can't imagine why? Of course apostates are not anything new, the apostle Paul was quite eloquent in his description of those in the first century.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

I have a feeling you are not very happy any place you plant yourself, but look at it this way - you weren't happy with us and we were not happy with you.

 

 

 

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    • Which scriptures, Arauna?  I’m open to discussing them with you. As the “new creation”, they are both human and spirit, as Jesus showed his disciples when he appeared to them after his resurrection.  1 Pet 1:23; 2 Cor 5:17; Mark 16:12; John 21:14; 1 Cor 15:3-8 "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters." Rom 8:29 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Cor 5:17 " And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man."  1 Cor 15:49  NKJV "And just as we have borne the image of the one who is made of earth, we will also bear the image of the heavenly." LEB “You, however, are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.”  Rom 8:9 “But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly”  Heb 12:22 Jerusalem’s temple was made with stones (Matt 24:2), God’s Temple today in Christ, is made with “living stones”, who are also His priests.  Individually and unitedly as Christ’s Bride, they are the dwelling place of God’s Spirit, just as the old earthly temple was blessed with God’s Spirit.  But no longer is there any definitive example of a temple built in a definitive place.  The anointed priesthood are His Temple and House of God.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22  They are his spiritual  “organization”.  This is why the new creation is both.  There are many scriptures in my post that show the Bride with Christ, coming down from heaven.  Rev 21:1-3 He had an earthly body when he appeared to his disciples. He also ate with them.  Should we limit God’s Hand to what He can accomplish with a “new creation”?  Was it limited when He created Adam and Eve and life in general?  Or, when Jesus appeared and disappeared to his disciples?  For those who are “conformed to the image of His Son” wouldn’t they have the ability to do the same?  Oh Arauna, I am not the one saying I will be “co-ruler” with Christ before Christ makes the choice.  That would be your GB.  Matt 25:21  Besides, “co-ruler” isn’t a word found in the Bible. There is only one anointed Body of Christ.  The scriptures are above in the post of what those members are.  (1 Cor 12).   At the patience of the Librarian, I’ve posted links for anyone who cares to, can visit.   The “good news” is the restoration of “Jacob”/”Israel”.  Isa 44:23; Mal 3:1-3; Matt 17:11 …”the inhabited earth” (Matt 24:14) refers to God’s holy people.  John 14:23; 1 Cor 3:9  They are God’s owned land – “Israel”.  In the last days, they receive the message to “come out of her my people”.  Jer 25:29,30; Matt 10:23; Rev 11:1-3; 18:4-8 They and those with them, are drinking in the lie that an earthly organization leads one to salvation.  Rev 12:13-17; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:1,2;18:4-8   "The Symbolic Earth" - http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/06/symbolic-earth.html    
    • The bible itself says that we must not have fellowship with those who are brazen in conduct.  There is no "threat".  When a person is a spiritual threat to other brothers and sisters and does not stop brazen conduct......then only, after they have been requested many times to stop unacceptable behaviour,  are they disfellowshipped.  These are the ones who usually then defame JWs and hide the truth-  that they were disfellowshipped because of a Christian conduct,  be it repetitive lying, stealing, fornication etc...... a practice of some und of unacceptable behaviour. Many realize the need to change and come back into the fold - others become more brazen..... and defame JWs.   I see you did not like this comment. ...... it says a lot about you.  People like to blame "others" .... never themselves.... Adam blamed eve.... lol.
    • My daughter bought a small home in UK in a safe area. One bathroom, 3 bedrooms - and it costs over over half million pounds.   So a 1 million pound house (especially in London must be the size of a dingy) and  is definitely not the epitome of luxury -  which impression you are trying to create. To sell a house that people have been using is good. They can use this money to assist brothers in the rest of the world. I guess they are selling because it is no longer needed..... but if they kept it you would also complain.  One cannot ever please some people.....
    • I guess - according to you -  we can throw out all the scriptures which indicate the anointed will have heavenly bodies such as 1 cor 15 and revelations - too many places to mention.  Not even those which show they will be changed in an instant. And the scriptures in Hebrews which indicate that they will be priests in the heavenly temple of jehovah.   Jehovah is perfect in logic, so why give a heavenly body when a physical body is more suited to the earth?  The marriage of the lamb will take place where? Did Jesus give up his earthly body to receive a heavenly  spiritual body? And did he really say to his disciples they will be with him where he is? Agh, there are just too many scriptures which indicate it is a heavenly kingdom and heavenly rulership....and a heavenly priesthood - a function you have forgotten about by just wanting to " rule"......... .which tells me you are up to your same old, same old behaviours.  You boast you are of the body of christ...... so which "body" do you belong to which has perfect unity? . How many members?  Where do you meet?  And are you and your adherents fulfilling the prophesy that the good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout the earth?     
    • And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kingsr over the earth.”Rev 5:9,10 - NWT As a JW, this sounded accurate to me, since it fit the supporting doctrine that the “144,000” will rule strictly from heaven – “over” the earth...not within its vicinity, but from the spiritual realm.  What I have since learned about this scripture and Christ’s truth regarding where the anointed will be “ruling” from, has been an important turning point for me. Notice how the organization’s own Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures breaks down vs. 10: “and you made them to the God of us kingdom and priests and they are reigning upon the earth” Here are a few other examples: “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”  Scripture4all.org “…they will reign upon the earth”.  https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5-10.htm It is very rare to find a Bible translation using the phrase “over the earth” in this scripture. The organization’s latest pictorial depiction of the 144,000 kings/priests ruling in heaven was of a vast array of emerald green thrones where men appearing identical to one another and to Christ, gazed over the earth as Christ’s “co-rulers”.  I wonder what the anointed JW women feel about a female’s apparent transition into a man, who are clones of each other.  This teaching sounds ridiculous to me today.  However, since the role of JW women is repeatedly slighted, should we expect any acknowledgement of the anointed being both male and female?  I could be in error, but I haven’t seen any photos of women partaking in the magazines.  There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  Gal 3:28 To be one in Christ does not mean the faithful sealed anointed take on the same physical appearance as Christ. All of the members of a fleshly body are distinctly different in appearance; working separately yet collectively, with the unified goal to allow the body to work efficiently.  It is the same in the Body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:15-20  All are given various gifts, and all are individuals with individual personalities. They have abilities reflecting the gift they receive.  Paul described it this way: There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.  1 Cor 12:4-6 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 1 Cor 12:19,20 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized byone Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 1 Cor 12:12-14 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.  Eph 4:11-16 The 144,000 are the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant “woman”/promise.   (2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:29-32; Gal 4:26) It is curious that the WT's leaders rarely go into detail about this.  When I recall their latest illustration described above, I don’t believe the artist had the idea of “bride” in mind. I could only sense an aura of steely authority, without the needed compassion and love that Jesus exhibited and taught his disciples to nurture within themselves. (Isa 42:3; Matt 14:14; John 13:34,35; 1 John 4: 17; Heb 4:15) Just as a bride and groom are not identical to each other, neither is Christ’s Bride of many members; either to Christ, or to one another, as the illustration erroneously shows. (1 Cor 12:29,30; Eph 4:11-13)  Marriage partners compliment and support each other in love.  It is the same with the Body of Christ, being united in one Spirit that imparts love, faith and knowledge of Christ and the Father. The organization’s leaders are unable to perceive this spiritual unity, since they have rejected the Spirit of Christ, in exchange for the spirit of Satan.  (John 15:4-7;1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:3; 2 Pet 1:10; Rev 2:4; 8:10;13:11) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  1 Cor 2:12-14  In order to “rule on the earth”, God’s priests must be on the earth.  If we can shed the false belief that once the 144,000 are sealed in “heaven” they will remain there, we are then able to grasp how such “heavenly” angel/messenger/priests will be found ruling, teaching, and helping God’s future children on the earth.  (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 1:14; Rev 5:9,10)   We can comprehend God’s “new creation” as having two “births”; one by fleshly parents through Adam and Eve, (Gen 2:7) and one by spiritual parents.  (John 3:3,5; 1 Cor 15:50; John 15:45; 20:22; Gal 4:26) Once Jesus was resurrected, he appeared many times to his disciples in the flesh; and just as easily, disappeared into the spirit realm.   His example set the precedence of what it means to be a “new creation”.  (Mark 16:12; John 21:14; 1 Cor 15:3-8)  By combining this event with Pearl Doxsey's help from her article, “Who are the gods?”, we can visualize the 144,000 “angels” present not only in the spirit realm, but on earth as well: The sons of God ("gods") inherit the promises given to Abraham. What promises are these? "I will make you very fruitful (John 15:8) I will make nations of you (Rev 5:9,10), and kings will come from you (Rev 20:4; 1:5; 3:21; 19:16,15; 2:26,27)". “Jacob had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.  There above it stood the Lord, and he said: "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying  (Ps 37:29; Heb 2:5,16; Gal 3:29; Heb 11:8-10; 13:14; Rev 21:2; Heb 12:22,23; Luke 10:20) (Gen.17:6).  Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring (Rev 22:2). I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go (Matt 28:20), and I will bring you back to this land (Rev 21:7).  I will not leave you (John 14:18) until I have done what I have promised you (John 16:22).  Jacob was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place (Heb 12:22,23,28)! This is none other than the house of God (1 Cor 3:9,16; Isa 56:7; Eph 2:19,10); this is the gate of heaven (Rev 11:6; Matt 16:19; Rev 3:12; John 10:9; 2 Cor 5:20)." (Gen.28:12-15,17) "Jesus added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open (Luke 24:32; Rev 2:17; Matt 13:11; Rev 4:1; 1:1)  (John 3:12; 1 Cor 2:12,13; Col 3:2), and the angels of God ascending and descending (Heb 12:22; Eph 2:6; Rev 3:21) "on* (Greek--*"in service to") the Son of Man.” (John 1:51) The "angels" (Lit. Greek, "messengers" – Isa 43:10,21; 1 Pet 2:9; Mal 2:7; Acts 1:8) referred to here, could not have served before the time of Christ (John 3:13) Jesus specifically said that they are in service on "the Son of Man" (1 Cor 4:1).  The "Son of Man" is Jesus in the flesh (John 1:14). Therefore, these angels serve Christ, after his coming down from heaven.  To be a messenger of Christ ("ambassador") who harbors God's spirit of life within... who has been made new (Rom 12:2; 8:11) as a part of God's new creation (2 Cor 5:17) by means of incorruptible seed, the Word of God (1 Pet 1:23; Luke 8:11)... …who has been reborn as a Son of the Most High (John 3:3,5; Rom 8:16,17,19,28-30)... who has been made an immovable pillar in the eternal heavenly Temple of God (Rev 3:12; Prov 9:1; Jer 1:18)... ...is a "god" (Ps 82:6; Rom 8:14; 1 Cor 8:5).  I do hope readers here find this information to be a personal turning point as it was for me, in learning that both Christ and the 144,000 kings and priests/ Bride of Christ, will have access to heaven as well as on earth, and living among God’s future children in the Kingdom. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” Matt 5:14  Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. Rev 21:1-3  “But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple” Rev 21:22 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. Rev 22:3-5 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Cor 3:16 Pearl Doxsey: (type in her name and the title of the article in the search bar. The link should appear) “End of the New Covenant” “Those not anointed – what benefit now?” “The Holy City”   PLEASE SEE AND ENJOY,   “The Holy City” - http://pearl-holycity.blogspot.com/   Pearl Doxsey, “End of the New Covenant” Those not anointed-what benefit now? - http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/04/i-received-two-questions-1.html         And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” (Heb.1:6) "Jesus will again, be brought into the world. At that time, the totality of his angels/messengers, will worship him... and be in service to, the Son of Man."  Pearl Doxsey
    • We do have very good reasons, the math for 1914 wouldn't work out otherwise Yes, I think we would laugh. After all, messing around with numbers to "fit something you want it to fit" sounds pretty cultish. When looking at this subject again, in light of Br. Splane's talk about types and antitypes, and how he said that (paraphrased) we have to make sure that when we are talking about types, that they are genuine types, because the word of God says they are puts a whole different slant on it. Then the idea is enforced even further when he says who is to decide if a person or event is a type, if the word of God doesn't say anything about it and he quotes Br. Shroeder: ( We need to exercise great care when applying accounts in the Hebrew Scriptures as prophetic patterns or types if these accounts are not applied in the Scriptures themselves). Therefor reading the account in Daniel 4 without any preconceived ideas, I see these main lessons: verse 17  "This is by the decree of watchers, and the request is by the word of the holy ones, so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.”  Lesson: (quite self explanatory really) Jehovah can do what he wants because he is the ultimate sovereign. verse 27  "Therefore, O king, may my counsel be acceptable to you. Turn away from your sins by doing what is right, and from your iniquity by showing mercy to the poor. It may be that your prosperity will be extended". Lesson: Listen to Jehovah and do right, otherwise Jehovah will discipline you. verse 37  “Now I, Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, am praising and exalting and glorifying the King of the heavens, because all his works are truth and his ways are just, and because he is able to humiliate those who are walking in pride. Lesson: similar to above, and also proof that Jehovah carries out his discipline.  ---------------- The reasoning put forward as to why this particular chapter of Daniel (4) has greater meaning (paraphrased from WT October 2014) is that the book of Daniel has a central theme, that of God's Kingdom, and keeps pointing forward to the establishment of that Kingdom under the rulership of his Son, Jesus. For example what it says in Daniel 2:44: "“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever.” I can see that Daniel Ch 2 is talking about Neb's. dream of the statue, representing subsequent rulerships, and that during the feet period God's Kingdom will come. In my opinion this is one valid and definite description of when the Kingdom will come. Then Chapters 7 and 8 are full of cryptic beasts, Chapter 9 prophesy about the coming of the Messiah including his cutting off, chapter 11 more cryptic descriptions, this time involving the king of the north and south, and the last chapter (12) the time of the end with Michael standing up. I need an encoder! I must admit, because of my more practical disposition, when we studied the Daniel book, I did not pay enough attention. My son was quite small and I had my hands full, and I can't even remember if we studied it again after that? For example what are these numbers about?: Daniel 12:11  “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. 12  “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!" (It's ok, no need to answer, I can look it up myself).   ,Sorry, I was being confusing. I didn't mean 607 was special. I meant what happened when counting 2520 years from that date, I meant that 1914 was a very significant year. (have to go, will carry on later)
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