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Should we close our ears to rebels? or opposers?

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2 hours ago, Witness said:

Melinda, I implore you to reason on your words.  

How is your example of the Catholic Church any different than the Watchtower?  For any who reject teachings such as “this generation”, the Armageddon dates that have come and gone, and Watchtower’s desire to put a manmade organization on a pedestal as the source of salvation, and which they proudly call “earthly Zion”, disfellowshipping ensues.  Any failed teaching gives evidence of lack of knowledge from God.  James 1:16-18  Failed doctrine has no relationship with Christ’s truth nor is it good news, but only stumbling forecasts made by stubborn priests already “defrocked” in the eyes of God.  They have haughtily rejected Christ as their head, usurping his authority by expecting obedience of all Christ’s anointed priests, to be given to them.   Ezek 21:25-27; Matt 23:12; 24:24

Here is your comment from a different perspective:

In a sense exJWs are like Alex. They did not stay under the authority of religions like the Watchtower organization, but examined the matter of what the real authority the Bible said, regardless of the consequences, (regardless of being disfellowshipped)  whereas the majority of persons accept the authority of the Watchtower and its erroneous teachings and refuse to look any further. 

Feb 12, 2012  Calvin Rouse, lawyer for the Watchtower in the Menlo Park kingdom hall lawsuit:

“We are a hierarchal religion structured just like the Catholic Church. And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest -- in the parish.”

This set of “consequences” affects anointed ones – the “holy priesthood” of God, as well as many others who have recognized the sound of Christ’s Truth. When choosing Christ’s full authority over men, they can distinguish between the rotten fruit of false/failed doctrine, and fine fruit sourced in Christ. John 15:1-8   Why is it, that the majority of JWs cannot recognize it?  Why is it that God’s anointed priests still inside, turn a blind eye to such falsehood?  Why do they not perceive THEY are the true Zion and that their hearts are the dwelling and Temple of God? 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Eph 2:20-22; Zech 8:3  Simply because they have filled their mind and heart with teachings/”fruit”/”wine” from false leaders, - harlots -  just like the Catholics who listen to the pope. John 7:18; Matt 7:15,16; Jer 2:21; Deut 32:32,33; John 15:5,16; Rev 17:1,2

But in this case, it is gravely serious, because these priests are God’s chosen people.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22

You said, 

“Hosea 4:6 shows that people will be silenced for lack of knowledge.” 

But let no one bring a charge,
    let no one accuse another
,
for your people are like those
    who bring charges
against a priest.

 (a Judicial committee of false “priests”/elders who are not anointed, judging God’s anointed priesthood as “spiritually dead” for accepting Christ as their Head, instead of a “wicked slave. Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 13:  Matt 24:48-51)


You stumble day and night,
    and the prophets stumble with you.
So I will destroy your mother—
    my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

“Because you have rejected knowledge,
    I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
    I also will ignore your children.
The more priests there were,
    the more they sinned against me;
    they exchanged their glorious God for something disgraceful.
They feed on the sins of my people
    and relish their wickedness.
And it will be: Like people, like priests.
    I will punish both of them for their ways
    and repay them for their deeds.

10 “They will eat but not have enough;
    they will engage in (spiritual) prostitution but not flourish,
because they have deserted the Lord
    to give themselves 11 to prostitution;
old wine and new wine ( old light, new light)
  take away their understanding.
12 My people consult a wooden idol,
    and a diviner’s rod speaks to them.
A spirit of prostitution leads them astray;
    they are unfaithful to their God.

Do JWs allow a spirit of prostitution to lead them astray?  Yes.  False prophets/Harlots have convinced you to “serve the organization”, transposing this to mean, serving God. Rev 13;1,4,7,8,11,14-17 Nothing on this earth is to be compared to, or served, except God and His Son.  Isa 42:8; 46:5,20; Luke 4:8; Rom 6:16 The apostles didn’t “serve” the needs of an organization, but they wholeheartedly served God and Jesus. Matt 6:24  Where does it say in the scriptures that an organization, other than the ‘organized’ anointed Body of Christ, the Temple of God, must be recognized as the pathway to salvation? Ps 2:6; Ezek 20:40; Rev 14:1   God and Christ both have absolutely no interest in earthly wealth, investments, or buildings that thrive in Satan’s world. Matt 6:19-21; Acts 17:24,25; Phil 3:19; Col 3:2  His only “investments” are those members of Christ’s Body; where His Holy Spirit dwells, as well as the hearts of those seeking pure Truth through His Son.  John 14:23

I would hope we are speaking of the authority of God and Christ, and not that of the governing body.  For them to say that God is responsible at any point in time, for Watchtower’s wayward teachings is an absolute lie; yet, they are guilty of doing so.  Did they let the real authority of the Bible speak, or was it from their own desires?  Ezek 13:3  JW have been disfellowshipped for bringing this to the attention of the elders.   

Is it possible for any JW to read scriptures in support of this truth, and take it into their heart?  Or, is the plentiful “fruit” of false teachers more desirable to “eat”?  It is easy to say one relies on the authority of the Bible; JWs are convinced they do, forgetting all the “bible-based” discarded books and teachings that are no longer in use. 

“God’s anger is revealed from heaven against every ungodly and immoral thing people do as they try to suppress the truth by their immoral living. 

They knew God but did not praise and thank him for being God. Instead, their thoughts were pointless, and their misguided minds were plunged into darkness. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools.

These people have exchanged God’s truth for a lie. So they have become ungodly and serve what is created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen!  Rom 1:18,21,25

JWs, you believe you are out of the woods and have left false teachings behind; but you can’t see the forest for the trees.  These particular “trees”/teachers that you seek shelter under, waiting for their spiritual “food” to drop, have an axe waiting at the base of their bitter roots, to chop them down.  Jer 23:15; Matt 3:7-10; Heb 12:14-17;Rev 8:10-11; Rev 19:20

 

 

The best text related to the issue being discussed is the data provided by Jesus himself, at Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-43, which starts off as follows:

"Jesus told them another parable: "The Kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner's servants came to him and said, "Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?" "An enemy did this", he replied. The servants asked him, "Do you want us to go and pull them up?" "No", he answered, "because while you are pulling the weeds, you root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned, then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn." (NIV)



Not wanting to allow for a variety of future interpretations of the above parable, Jesus himself, explained it in 13:36-43 as follows: "Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field". He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world [kosmos], and the good seed stands for the sons of the Kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his Kingdom everything that causes sin, and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."



Jesus explains that while he was on earth he, the "Son of Man", spread a specific message, "the seed of wheat", that resulted eventually in the formation of a body of original followers and/or co-workers, "the wheat". However, when his co-workers, the faithful apostles and their principal associates died, or "went to sleep" [death is compared to a type of sleep in over 700 places in the Hebrew and Christian Greek Scriptures], an enemy, the Devil, over-sowed the body of believers with others, "the weeds", who were not of the same ilk as the original community once was – resulting in a contamination, a negative infusion that proved to compromise that which was established by Jesus and his first followers.



As noted in the parable, it is only during "the end of the age", the time of the end, the last days, in which one would see a harvesting that would bring together once again the wheat, but now separate from the weeds – indeed, the call made at Revelation 18:4, for his people, to get out.



Interestingly, the koine Greek word translated as "weeds" is "zizanion" which is a kind of darnel, the bearded type, which significantly resembles wheat in "appearance", but only in appearance [Matthew 7:15-23] – a degenerate wheat.



Also interesting regarding zizanion, it is not until the time approaching harvest, that the zizanion becomes visible – and it does so because unlike wheat, it puts forth little black seeds at maturity, which become visible, and if eaten, can be deadly. It is the fruit, or "seeds" of this plant, which make it distinguishable from the true wheat.



The reason why Jesus chose this particular plant by word becomes obvious - the zizanion represented individuals "planted" by the oversower into the developing Christian institution. Who would claim to be genuine Christians, genuine "wheat". According to the parable, this poisoned and contaminated version of "Christianity" would be allowed to persist until the time of the end at which time a separating would transpire, i.e., the restoration.

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On 7/17/2018 at 10:59 PM, sami said:

So you were preaching false doctrine in the kingdom hall to Jehovah's Witnesses? Not a very smart move.

Dear sami,

Some scriptures have links.  For those that don’t, I do hope you look into the Bible and read.

What is your definition of “false doctrine”?  Being labeled an apostate by the Watchtower is the rejection of their own teachings unique to the organization.  If I believe in the Father and Christ, and are guided by God’s Word, I am not an apostate according to God’s Word.

We’ll start by seeing what the Watchtower says about its prophetic abilities:

"Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" (Watchtower April 1, 1972, p. 197)

What does the records show?  Let’s look at just a few examples over a hundred year span. 

"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)

The "Gentile Times" prove that the present governments must all be overturned about the close of 1915 A.D." Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is At Hand 1915 ed. pp.99, 101, 242

"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216

(We are now in the 21st century.)

“"Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935." Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19

Logically?  Apparently not.

"Thus it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends." Watchtower 2007 May 1 p.31

Your Awake magazines before 11/8/1995, use to have this statement on the inner cover:

 "Why Awake is Published" “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." 

That generation who saw the events of 1914 is no longer alive!  The magazine now states:

"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

Do you hear Christ’s voice in any of these teachings?  Did your leaders hear Christ’s voice when they fabricated such teachings?   The failed doctrines of “this generation” are so twisted and so plentiful I chose not to list them.  But, I encourage you to check out Watchtower’s lengthy history of changed teachings regarding it.  It is JWs who follow a “Judas goat”/false prophets, putting their lives in jeopardy.  Jer 5:31  Jesus said we would recognize both false prophets and those he sends by the “fruit”/teachings they produce which is to last – not be discarded as you would toss aside a rotten apple.  John 15:4-8,16;13:20; Matt 24:4,5

Have you ever read the following scriptures?

Moses speaking:

“The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear,  according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’

17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”  Deut 18:15-22

Simply, the “prophets” of the organization since its inception have and continue to speak presumptuously on behalf of God, or in the name of another “god” (Jehovah’s organization)…and fail time and time again in their “predictions”.  There really is no wiggle room to get around what God predicts as their outcome. 

Jesus did not forego speaking up for Truth and exposing lies.  Those of Christ’s Body – the anointed ones – must also speak up for Truth, especially among each other.  2 Cor 10:4,5

On 7/17/2018 at 10:59 PM, sami said:

You must be a disfellowshipped person, HUH ? You should be supremely happy - you are now on the outside looking in so  stop pressing your nose against our windows.

 

The entire world is pressing its nose against Watchtower's windows.  No longer, can Watchtower hide its secrets.  Disfellowshipping has caused thousands to lose connection with their families; it has driven people to take their life; yet, I believe JWs seem to take all of this with tongue in cheek.  Victims of child abuse by other members of the organization, have been disfellowshipped; while perpetrators remain in the congregation.  I am sorry that you are so indoctrinated, you cannot see the lack of love among your leaders, who have twisted this form of counsel - into a catalyst of hate and destruction. This should be enacted by the anointed priesthood under their loving Head, Christ.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 21:16; Heb 8:10; Rom 13:10; Heb 8:5,6  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+16%3A24-27%3B+Isa+57%3A13%3B++Rev+13%3A11%2C12%2C15%3B+11%3A3%2C7&version=NKJV

Your use of John 10:27 reminded me of a time in the JW “preaching work” with a woman who approached a man working in his yard. When he rejected her message, she walked away calling out loudly, “Christ’s sheep know his voice”.  This puzzled me, since our message was based on “Jehovah”, the organization, a paradise only obtainable through the organization, and the kingdom that supposedly began in 1914. I wondered if I had personally heard Christ’s voice. To believe that you have, while in the organization is pure folly. The governing body’s voices are much louder and much more demanding than Christ’s.  1 Cor 7:23; Rom 6:16; Matt 11:28-30  It wasn’t until leaving the Wt. did I “hear” his voice, unclouded by men’s doctrine loaded with falsehood.  I learned it was okay to respond to his voice in prayer, something that your Pharisee-like leaders tell you not to do.  John 6:68,69    Ask yourself, who’s voice are you really hearing?  Jesus did say those who hear his voice, follow him. John 10:27     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Cor+7%3A23%3B+Rom+6%3A16%3B+Matt+11%3A28-30%3B+John+6%3A68%2C69+&version=NKJV

 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voiceBut they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”  John 10:1-5

An earthly corporation with many earthly holdings, is not the gate/door to salvation. Matt 6:24; Acts 4:12   Clearly, if you read the scriptures, Jesus is the gate, and the shepherd of his sheep. John 10:9  I am relieved and blessed I now recognize Christ’s voice.  It is no longer a stranger to me.  I am so grateful I ‘ran away’ from the thieves, your leaders, who preach “another Jesus” deliberately, to mislead the flock.    2 Cor 11:3,4; Ps 52:1-7  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6%3A24%3B+Acts+4%3A12%3B+John+10%3A9%3B+2+Cor+11%3A3%2C4%3B+Ps+52%3A1-7&version=NKJV

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide (Watchtower organization) is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”  Matt 7:13,14

Regarding 2 Thess 2:7.  I really hope you can put aside your defense for the organization and try to engage yourself in these scriptures.

2 Thess 2:7 – (AMP)  “For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way. “

2 Thess 2:6 – “And you know what restrains him now [from being revealed]; it is so that he will be revealed at his own [appointed] time.”

This lawlessness is not accomplished by one person, but a collective reign -  a power that has now been revealed.  The “day of the Lord” is prophesied to have come in 1914 by your literature.

 Look what 2 Thess 2: 1,2 says about this:

“Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] *from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come. 

*”from us” – from other anointed ones, but who have “gone out” from the Body.  1 John 2:19

In other words, you should reject Watchtower’s “revelation” about 1914!  Why?

“Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction [the Antichrist, the one who is destined to be destroyed], who opposes and exalts himself [so proudly and so insolently] above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he [actually enters and] takes his seat in the temple of God, publicly proclaiming that he himself is God.”  2 Thess 2:3,4

There is only one temple of God, found in the hearts of the anointed ones.  Can you envision this?  John 2:19-22; Acts 4:11;  Matt 16:18; Eph 2:20-22  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2%3A19-22%3B+Acts+4%3A11%3B++Matt+16%3A18%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22&version=NKJV

To te anointed ones of his time, Paul said:

Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple. 1 Cor 3:16,17

How would a collective “man of lawlessness” reign, or “take his seat” over the anointed priesthood of God?  It has developed gradually, and it is within the organization where the anointed are found.  The elder body are, in God’s sight, “foreigners” standing in the Temple of God. 2 Chron 23:6,7; Num 18:7; Ezek 44:6-9 They have been given authority by the administrating anointed ones (GB) to “rule” God’s personal “heritage” – His chosen people.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Matt 24:48-51  This is the lawlessness at work among those who “profess” to be Christians.  2 Chron 13:9  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Chron+23%3A6%2C7%3B+Num+18%3A7%3B+Ezek+44%3A6-9%3BIsa+43%3A10%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+2+Chron+13%3A9++&version=NKJV

 

Do you know where we can find further description of this present “lawlessness”? It is in the Beast of Revelation 13:1,18, and the 4th Beast of Daniel’s image. (Dan 7:7)

This Beast, (Rev 13:1) along with Revelation’s false prophet (Rev 13:11) unitedly work together to claim power over the “holy ones.”  Rev 13:6,7; Dan 12:7  YOU reside with the anointed ones.  YOU accept the lawless rule over them, and over yourself.   When Jesus prophesied that a “disgusting thing” would be found in the temple, it was a two-fold prophesy.  It came upon the city of Jerusalem leading to its destruction by a Gentile Roman army.  It has appeared again upon the “New Jerusalem”/Temple of God – the anointed Body of Christ. Matt 24:15,16; Rev 11:1-3  Those who are not anointed as spiritual “Israel”, are spiritual “Gentiles”.  Rom 2:28,29; Rev 7:4  The elder body is by far, not anointed.

Christ’s voice is heard by those who reject the Beasts and their great deception to come against the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”.  Rev 12:17  I do hope you ask God if you are on the side of pure, unadulterated by falsehoods, TRUTH, since you are seeing the effects of the battle of truth against lies.  Those anointed “kings” who side with Christ in truth, against anointed “kings” who side with Satan and his delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 20:7-9

2 Thess 2:9,10  (AMP)“The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 10 and by unlimited seduction to evil and with all the deception of wickedness for those who are perishing, because they did not welcome the love of the truth [of the gospel] so as to be saved [they were spiritually blind, and rejected the truth that would have saved them]. 11 Because of this God will send upon them a misleading influence, [an activity of error and deception] so they will believe the lie12 in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe the truth [about their sin, and the need for salvation through Christ], but instead took pleasure in unrighteousness.”

Do you believe the lie that Christ approves of failed doctrines?  That God approves an organization that must be cherished and revered as one’s path to salvation over His Son?  Do you believe the anointed ones, God’s true priesthood/teachers must remain apart from one another in the organization as your leaders teach you? Do you believe the organization is “spirit-directed” by God, when its leaders have admitted they personally, are not?   All of these things are what the Watchtower teaches. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Where does the judgment of the wheat and the weeds occur? Remembering that the entire realm of mankind is judged for their works, God’s anointed ones and those with them, are judged using different parameters.  Christ’s parable is speaking about his chosen anointed ones.  John 12:31,32; 1 Pet 4:17 

“The field is the world, the * good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.”  Matt 13:38  

* sealed anointed ones. 

“The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom (his anointed Body of priests and kings Luke 12:32; Rev 1:6)  all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity,  and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth.  Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. Matt 13:41-43

So you see, God’s priestly kings are being judged for whom they serve.  They must be “pure and blameless” of all falsehoods before serving God and Jesus, eternally, as the Bride of Christ. Phil 2:14-16; Rev 14:5

 Within the Watchtower, the governing body expects them to obey not only themselves, but the elder body, who have been exalted as deserving of obedience even by God’s personally chosen priesthood.  Only Christ is our mediator, but with great deception, the governing body has assumed that role.  1 Tim 2:5

All who are under the Beasts of Revelation, now face judgment.  The anointed “wheat” join Christ, as do all those who also reject falsehoods, a.k.a, “new light”. The road to life is a narrow one, while the road clearly depicted in the magazines is filled with people of all nations, including those anointed who believe they will walk safely out of Armageddon, and into a paradise.  1 Thess 5:1-3; Rev 6:15-17

“for this people’s heart has grown callous,
    their ears are dull of hearing,
    they have closed their eyes;
or else perhaps they might perceive with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their heart,
and would turn again;
    and I would heal them.’  Matt 13:15

On 7/17/2018 at 11:11 PM, sami said:

As noted in the parable, it is only during "the end of the age", the time of the end, the last days, in which one would see a harvesting that would bring together once again the wheat, but now separate from the weeds – indeed, the call made at Revelation 18:4, for his people, to get out.

When Jeremiah proclaimed similar words as the scripture in Rev 18:4, he was speaking to God’s people under covenant with Him. Jer 51:6  They had sinned greatly, forgetting God’s decrees and falling into idolatry – spiritual immorality.  Today, the anointed priesthood are God’s people under covenant with God.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10 They are not in Christendom, but are found already gathered in the organization/Beast of Rev 13:1;16:13,14  Satan has deceived them, and you, hunting them down through a false “preaching work”, enticing them with bits of truth.   God has allowed it to come upon them as 2 Thess 2:11,12 shows us.  Satan demands to “sift” them as “wheat”, just as he tempted Christ with what his earthly realm has to offer.   All JWs, with the anointed, are also being sifted on this “threshing floor”.  Luke 3:17; 4:1-13   

 Where do you direct your love – is it to the Father and Christ only as they expect, or is it to an organization that oppresses God’s holy people with an “army”/elder body, who has taken its seat in His Temple?   God’s Word shows us it can’t be both.  Rev 13:1,6,7;9:1,3,4;Matt 22:37-40 

Will you listen to Christ’s voice? –

“You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,  yet you refuse to come to me to have life.  John 5:39,40

“And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her (Harlot/false prophet Beast from the earth/governing body Rev 13:11) sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 *Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.  Rev 18:4-8

*“She” approves the disfellowshipping (spiritual “killing”) of God’s anointed priesthood for rejecting “her” lies, and for usurping the position of Christ, as their Head.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,14-17

 

 

 

 

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On 7/20/2018 at 7:18 PM, Witness said:

Dear sami,

Some scriptures have links.  For those that don’t, I do hope you look into the Bible and read.

What is your definition of “false doctrine”?  Being labeled an apostate by the Watchtower is the rejection of their own teachings unique to the organization.  If I believe in the Father and Christ, and are guided by God’s Word, I am not an apostate according to God’s Word.

We’ll start by seeing what the Watchtower says about its prophetic abilities:

"Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" (Watchtower April 1, 1972, p. 197)

What does the records show?  Let’s look at just a few examples over a hundred year span. 

"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)

The "Gentile Times" prove that the present governments must all be overturned about the close of 1915 A.D." Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is At Hand 1915 ed. pp.99, 101, 242

"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216

(We are now in the 21st century.)

“"Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935." Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19

Logically?  Apparently not.

"Thus it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends." Watchtower 2007 May 1 p.31

Your Awake magazines before 11/8/1995, use to have this statement on the inner cover:

 "Why Awake is Published" “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." 

That generation who saw the events of 1914 is no longer alive!  The magazine now states:

"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

Do you hear Christ’s voice in any of these teachings?  Did your leaders hear Christ’s voice when they fabricated such teachings?   The failed doctrines of “this generation” are so twisted and so plentiful I chose not to list them.  But, I encourage you to check out Watchtower’s lengthy history of changed teachings regarding it.  It is JWs who follow a “Judas goat”/false prophets, putting their lives in jeopardy.  Jer 5:31  Jesus said we would recognize both false prophets and those he sends by the “fruit”/teachings they produce which is to last – not be discarded as you would toss aside a rotten apple.  John 15:4-8,16;13:20; Matt 24:4,5

Have you ever read the following scriptures?

Moses speaking:

“The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear,  according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’

17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”  Deut 18:15-22

Simply, the “prophets” of the organization since its inception have and continue to speak presumptuously on behalf of God, or in the name of another “god” (Jehovah’s organization)…and fail time and time again in their “predictions”.  There really is no wiggle room to get around what God predicts as their outcome. 

Jesus did not forego speaking up for Truth and exposing lies.  Those of Christ’s Body – the anointed ones – must also speak up for Truth, especially among each other.  2 Cor 10:4,5

 

The entire world is pressing its nose against Watchtower's windows.  No longer, can Watchtower hide its secrets.  Disfellowshipping has caused thousands to lose connection with their families; it has driven people to take their life; yet, I believe JWs seem to take all of this with tongue in cheek.  Victims of child abuse by other members of the organization, have been disfellowshipped; while perpetrators remain in the congregation.  I am sorry that you are so indoctrinated, you cannot see the lack of love among your leaders, who have twisted this form of counsel - into a catalyst of hate and destruction. This should be enacted by the anointed priesthood under their loving Head, Christ.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 21:16; Heb 8:10; Rom 13:10; Heb 8:5,6  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+16%3A24-27%3B+Isa+57%3A13%3B++Rev+13%3A11%2C12%2C15%3B+11%3A3%2C7&version=NKJV

Your use of John 10:27 reminded me of a time in the JW “preaching work” with a woman who approached a man working in his yard. When he rejected her message, she walked away calling out loudly, “Christ’s sheep know his voice”.  This puzzled me, since our message was based on “Jehovah”, the organization, a paradise only obtainable through the organization, and the kingdom that supposedly began in 1914. I wondered if I had personally heard Christ’s voice. To believe that you have, while in the organization is pure folly. The governing body’s voices are much louder and much more demanding than Christ’s.  1 Cor 7:23; Rom 6:16; Matt 11:28-30  It wasn’t until leaving the Wt. did I “hear” his voice, unclouded by men’s doctrine loaded with falsehood.  I learned it was okay to respond to his voice in prayer, something that your Pharisee-like leaders tell you not to do.  John 6:68,69    Ask yourself, who’s voice are you really hearing?  Jesus did say those who hear his voice, follow him. John 10:27     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Cor+7%3A23%3B+Rom+6%3A16%3B+Matt+11%3A28-30%3B+John+6%3A68%2C69+&version=NKJV

 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voiceBut they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”  John 10:1-5

An earthly corporation with many earthly holdings, is not the gate/door to salvation. Matt 6:24; Acts 4:12   Clearly, if you read the scriptures, Jesus is the gate, and the shepherd of his sheep. John 10:9  I am relieved and blessed I now recognize Christ’s voice.  It is no longer a stranger to me.  I am so grateful I ‘ran away’ from the thieves, your leaders, who preach “another Jesus” deliberately, to mislead the flock.    2 Cor 11:3,4; Ps 52:1-7  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6%3A24%3B+Acts+4%3A12%3B+John+10%3A9%3B+2+Cor+11%3A3%2C4%3B+Ps+52%3A1-7&version=NKJV

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide (Watchtower organization) is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”  Matt 7:13,14

Regarding 2 Thess 2:7.  I really hope you can put aside your defense for the organization and try to engage yourself in these scriptures.

2 Thess 2:7 – (AMP)  “For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way. “

2 Thess 2:6 – “And you know what restrains him now [from being revealed]; it is so that he will be revealed at his own [appointed] time.”

This lawlessness is not accomplished by one person, but a collective reign -  a power that has now been revealed.  The “day of the Lord” is prophesied to have come in 1914 by your literature.

 Look what 2 Thess 2: 1,2 says about this:

“Now in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] *from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come. 

*”from us” – from other anointed ones, but who have “gone out” from the Body.  1 John 2:19

In other words, you should reject Watchtower’s “revelation” about 1914!  Why?

“Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction [the Antichrist, the one who is destined to be destroyed], who opposes and exalts himself [so proudly and so insolently] above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he [actually enters and] takes his seat in the temple of God, publicly proclaiming that he himself is God.”  2 Thess 2:3,4

There is only one temple of God, found in the hearts of the anointed ones.  Can you envision this?  John 2:19-22; Acts 4:11;  Matt 16:18; Eph 2:20-22  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2%3A19-22%3B+Acts+4%3A11%3B++Matt+16%3A18%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22&version=NKJV

To te anointed ones of his time, Paul said:

Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple. 1 Cor 3:16,17

How would a collective “man of lawlessness” reign, or “take his seat” over the anointed priesthood of God?  It has developed gradually, and it is within the organization where the anointed are found.  The elder body are, in God’s sight, “foreigners” standing in the Temple of God. 2 Chron 23:6,7; Num 18:7; Ezek 44:6-9 They have been given authority by the administrating anointed ones (GB) to “rule” God’s personal “heritage” – His chosen people.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Matt 24:48-51  This is the lawlessness at work among those who “profess” to be Christians.  2 Chron 13:9  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Chron+23%3A6%2C7%3B+Num+18%3A7%3B+Ezek+44%3A6-9%3BIsa+43%3A10%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+2+Chron+13%3A9++&version=NKJV

 

Do you know where we can find further description of this present “lawlessness”? It is in the Beast of Revelation 13:1,18, and the 4th Beast of Daniel’s image. (Dan 7:7)

This Beast, (Rev 13:1) along with Revelation’s false prophet (Rev 13:11) unitedly work together to claim power over the “holy ones.”  Rev 13:6,7; Dan 12:7  YOU reside with the anointed ones.  YOU accept the lawless rule over them, and over yourself.   When Jesus prophesied that a “disgusting thing” would be found in the temple, it was a two-fold prophesy.  It came upon the city of Jerusalem leading to its destruction by a Gentile Roman army.  It has appeared again upon the “New Jerusalem”/Temple of God – the anointed Body of Christ. Matt 24:15,16; Rev 11:1-3  Those who are not anointed as spiritual “Israel”, are spiritual “Gentiles”.  Rom 2:28,29; Rev 7:4  The elder body is by far, not anointed.

Christ’s voice is heard by those who reject the Beasts and their great deception to come against the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”.  Rev 12:17  I do hope you ask God if you are on the side of pure, unadulterated by falsehoods, TRUTH, since you are seeing the effects of the battle of truth against lies.  Those anointed “kings” who side with Christ in truth, against anointed “kings” who side with Satan and his delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 20:7-9

2 Thess 2:9,10  (AMP)“The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 10 and by unlimited seduction to evil and with all the deception of wickedness for those who are perishing, because they did not welcome the love of the truth [of the gospel] so as to be saved [they were spiritually blind, and rejected the truth that would have saved them]. 11 Because of this God will send upon them a misleading influence, [an activity of error and deception] so they will believe the lie12 in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe the truth [about their sin, and the need for salvation through Christ], but instead took pleasure in unrighteousness.”

Do you believe the lie that Christ approves of failed doctrines?  That God approves an organization that must be cherished and revered as one’s path to salvation over His Son?  Do you believe the anointed ones, God’s true priesthood/teachers must remain apart from one another in the organization as your leaders teach you? Do you believe the organization is “spirit-directed” by God, when its leaders have admitted they personally, are not?   All of these things are what the Watchtower teaches. 

 One thing I've noticed over the years is that apostate disfellowshipped ones have a common and maniacal lack of acceptance and responsibility for their actions. The fault for their being evicted from their congregation and the organization is the fault of everyone else.

It reminds me of 1918 when apostates tried takIsaiing over the organization but were thwarted in those efforts. Satan did the same in Eden telling Eve she would not die and God lied to them. This person has serious mental health issues - deep seated paranoia.

Be happy you are gone. We have stepped up the pace of disciple making which is 8.5 million to this point and literature printed in over 900 languages in 239 lands and islands. There are couples worldwide who have answered the call of need greaters. Isaiah 57:17 "No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah.

Accept the fact that you did this to yourself and now you can scream your apostate ideology from the mountain tops but your fall has already been great outside Jehovah's organization and the weeping and gnashing of your teeth has begun as we dwell in security.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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    • Absolutely agree. But what I see as it is possible to read in WT Society text about Higher education is this: They tend to separate young minds from "secular knowledge" because of some fears. Perhaps one of fear is not main reason, to be learned about non-Bible ideas. But as main reason i see how this "secular ideas" can cause that young JW members begin to question WT and Bible.  Please have in mind what you already said, JHVH not decided to separate Congregation, but He doing just opposite. He let all sort of influence to be spread on  people, all people, not just JW's. If JHVH not made separation in literal way, than WT try to do this separation in limited level on limited class of people for limited time in their life - looks funny and not productive as they expect.  This was completely necessary to be said ... using this sort of illustration with mafia as subject :))))) ........... but you "provoked" me a little :)))) and i will add. We all working for devil the boss, because he is ruler, god of this world, global company/corporation. Just another, different way of rationalization.   :))))))
    • I agree that God is organized, which is clear in creation.  He has also organized his anointed Body of “144,000” perfectly, by distributing gifts in various measure. All are to benefit from each other.  (1 Cor chapter 12)  And he himself gave some as apostles and some as prophets and some as evangelists and some as pastors and teachers 12 for the equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all reach the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to a measure of the maturity of the fullness of Christ.  Eph 4:11-13 In Matt 13:36-43 it says, “The Son of Man will send out his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom all the causes of sin and those who do lawless deeds” Matt 13:41 Jesus stated that his kingdom is “no part of this world”. John 18:36  His kingdom is comprised of the anointed – those part of his Body.  He is the “Lord of lords and King of kings”.  Rev 17:14 (Matt 20:21)    And they were singing a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the scroll     and to open its seals, because you were slaughtered,     and bought people for God by your blood     from every tribe and language and people and nation, 10 and made them a kingdom and priests to our God,     and they will reign on the earth.” Rev 5:9,10 (1 Pet 2:5,9) Matt 13:37,38 – “So he answered and said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world. And the good seed—these are the sons of the kingdom, but the darnel are the sons of the evil one.” If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal 3:29 We know that not all of God’s anointed become faithful members of the Bride.  They can fall from their heavenly position. 2 Pet 3:17; Rev 8:10,11  This harvest firstly concerns those belonging to Christ, who are part of his kingdom and are found either as good seed or weeds.  I hope you can see that Matt 13:36-43 has nothing to do with the all the kingdoms on the earth and the people in them.  (Luke 4:5-7)  In Matt 13:38; It does say, “the field is the world” – but world can mean, “an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution” which describes the anointed arrangement of "kings" under their Head Jesus Christ.  John 4:23,24 -   Jesus said right before these scriptures:   “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.” John 4:21 Christ’s Body replaced the temple in Jerusalem.  There is no more literal, physical place of worship, since the Temple is now built with “living stones”.  1 Pet 2:5,9   They are given “spirit” and “truth”.  1 John 2:20,27; John 16:13  If they fail in their devotion to God and Christ, they lose what has been given them.  Luke 8:18; 1 Cor 3:18  They will not be sealed into the tribes of “Israel”.    Luke 13:24; Rev 3:11 Again in Rev 18:4, “my people”, refer to God’s holy people – His “special possession”.  They and their companions with them are to leave the “organization” where the “darnel” are teaching His people, lies. Rev 18:4-8 (1 Pet 2:5,9,10)      
    • I don't know if anyone provided an update to this story, but the "brother" finally pled guilty, and was sentenced to five years, for three felony counts of child rape with two different victims. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-who-raped-jehovah-s-witness-girls-sentenced-5-years-n1082136 Elihu Rodriguez, 32, of Yakima, Washington, was given five years, the maximum sentence prosecutors had asked for, after Rodriguez pleaded guilty to three felony counts of child rape in the third degree in September. He was also ordered to register as a sex offender. Both of his victims attended the sentencing, which took place Friday at the King County Maleng Regional Justice Center in Kent, Washington. I believe this was the case I was told something about in 2018, which is why I mentioned then that I couldn't say much because it was an upcoming court case. If it's the same one, then someone (parent?) convinced her not to report it because it was just a matter that this 25-year-old was in love with her, and so they told her it was actually multiple acts of fornication, not child abuse or child rape. She agreed not to report on the basis that she would be considered guilty of fornication, too. So the family moved to another congregation, and within months, she got to a point where she decided she needed to report it to the elders. (I don't think it was because she learned about another girl being raped/abused by the man, even though this would make sense.) When she did report it to her new congregation's elders in 2013, they actually called the legal department just as they were supposed to, but evidently someone thought it was going to be possible to treat this as "consensual" and the elders tried to get her to say it was consensual. She refused to agree with the elders that it was consensual, and took it to the authorities. When I heard about this case (or perhaps another one just like it) I was only told the general area of the US, and some circumstances, but no names. I was only told that this was disturbing that someone would try to turn a child molestation case of a "16 year old girl" into a consensual case in spite of the young age. (I was not told that she was actually 14/15.) Years earlier, J R Brown, as a spokesmen for the Society, had tried to minimize a lot of these cases by saying that a lot of them are like cases of an 18 year old boy with a 16 year old girl, which sounded a bit like the old "boys will be boys" excuse. 
    • The point was that Jehovah is organized, the evidence is all around us. This leads us to believe that His visible favored people would be organized in doing His will. Moving forward we can consider WHO HE is about to sanction based on Matthew 13:36-43, John 4:23,24,Revelation 18:4 and a few more.......
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