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mormon God is not eternal.

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God the father has not always been God the father. 

 

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,... It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).

  "It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).

   "Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).

 "The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)

Joseph Smith: "I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years."

Joseph Smith: "The head God organized the heavens and the earth. I defy all the world to refute me. In the beginning the heads of the Gods organized the heavens and the earth."

Bruce McConkie states: "Three separate personages---Father, Son, and Holy Ghost---comprise the Godhead…As each of these persons is a God, it is evident from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us…these three are the only Gods we worship" (Mormon Doctrine, p.576-7).

 

 

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      Didn’t Joseph Smith send the very first couple of missionaries away on missions so he could have sex with their wives?

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    • By Jesus.defender
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      • Surprising as it may seem, no less than six times the Book of Mormon employs the abbreviation
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      • In Jacob 7:27, the French word adieu occurs. But how could a modern French word have found its way into those ancient plates? This is additional evidence of fraud, and presents grounds for rejecting the Book of Mormon.
      • In Jacob 3:11 and Mosiah 29:14, the word “faculties” appears. However, this is a term dating back no earlier than middle English. Strange, indeed, that it would be “translated” from a word on an ancient plate dating over 1,000 years earlier.
      • 2 Nephi 29:3 reads, “A Bible, A Bible, we have got a Bible...” This statement is made in reference tothe Jewish Old Testament, which is dated at about 550 B.C. However, the word “Bible” is the English transliteration of the Greek term “biblos,” which came into use over 1,500 years later. In using the word “Bible,” the writer of the Book of Mormon made a serious blunder that shows the book to be of recent origin and, hence, fraudulent in its claims.
      • 3Nephi 15:21 is a word-for-word quote of John 10:16 (from the King James Version). However, this version is somewhat less than 400 years old. And, to make matters worse, the Book of Mormon even quotes the italicized word “and” that was supplied by the King James translators. Here, the writer of the Book of Mormon unwittingly demonstrates his work to be plagiarism.
      • The entire fourteenth chapter of Mosiah, made up of 12 verses, is a duplication of Isaiah 53:1-12.
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      • Moroni 7:45, which is a quotation of 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 in the King James Version, is another example of fraud. In citing this verse, the writer included the italicized word “easily” (“...is not easily provoked”). However, the word “easily” is not in the original, but was placed there (incorrectly) by the King James translators. [It is omitted, correctly, from later versions.] 
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      • In 2 Nephi 31:13 and other places, reference is made to the “Holy Ghost.” But, the term “ghost” did not come into use until many hundreds of years after the Book of Mormon was supposed to have been inscribed on ancient plates. That the writer borrowed this from the King James Bible is indisputable.
      • The word “baptism” is found in 2 Nephi 31:13 and other places. But this cannot be an actual translation of a word found on ancient plates, because “baptism” is a transliteration of the Greek word baptisma, and was peculiar to the King James Version. This word is clearly a copy of an early English term, demonstrating again the fraudulent nature of the Book of Mormon.
      • The word “epistle” in 3 Nephi 3:5 is an obvious copy from the King James Version. Like baptism, the word “epistle” (epistolos) was left in its original Greek form, but given an English ending. This shows the writer of the Book of Mormon was not very careful in selecting his words.
      • The words “alpha” and “omega” appear in 3 Nephi 9:18. These, of course, are the English spellings of Greek words found in the Bible (Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:13). Since the Book of Mormon was not recorded in Greek, why were these words used? The simple fact is, they were copied from the King James Version.
      • 3 Nephi 20:23-26, dated at A.D. 34, refers to Moses’ prophecy about the Christ (Deuteronomy
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      • In the Book of Mormon there are numerous instances where the writer uses words that were not relevant to his time. Rather, these are words peculiar to the English spoken in the early 1600s (“prayest,” “durst,” “thou,” “thee,” “thy,” “thine,” “hast,” “doth,” “knoweth,” “hearest,” “cometh,” “thirsteth,” etc.). Did God really select these words for the Book of Mormon? This obviously shows the writer’s exposure to King James terminology. [NOTE: Scores of passages in the Book of Mormon, either in part or whole, exact or paraphrased, have been taken directly from the King James Version. 
      Some researchers have estimated that as much as 4% can be traced to this English translation.]
      These examples, and others too numerous to list here, clearly illustrate that the Book of Mormon is not a translation from ancient plates, but is instead of rather recent origin and therefore fraudulent in its claims of antiquity.
    • By JOHN BUTLER
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      2 Timothy 3 v 16
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    • By Jesus.defender
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      - Mormons see Jesus as a polygamist. Apostle Orson Hyde: "…Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee... Mary, Martha, and others were his wives ... he begat children" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.210). Jedediah M. Grant: "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do... Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified" (Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.82). Orson Hyde: "It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it" (Journal of Discourses, vol.4, p.259). Orson Pratt: "We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born... We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable wives are to be married" (The Seer, p. 172).
      - The Bible says that Jesus created ALL things. This includes lucifer. Gen. 3:1, Ez. 28:13,15,17Mormons see Jesus as a brother of satan, not His brother.
      - Mormons see Jesus was procreated as a spirit child of the Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother and later conceived physically by the Heavenly Father and an earthly mother: The Ensign, Jan. 1989, pp.28-29; Come Unto Christ by Ezra Taft Benson, p.4). Bruce McConkie states: "Christ the Word, the Firstborn, had of course attained unto the status of Godhood while yet in pre-existence" (What Mormons Think of Christ, p.36).
      Bruce McConkie continues: "He is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg. 129).
      Orson Pratt: "God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born" (The Seer, p. 172).
      "Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of Elohim." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol.4, Appendix 4).
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      He is according to Pope Francis...
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    • By Jesus.defender
      BIBLE PROOFS OF THE TRINITY

      Key: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are so clearly and consistently linked in Scripture that, assuming that God is not three persons, makes it impossible to understand some passages.
      Though JWs exalt human reasoning against the Trinity doctrine, saying it is unreasonable,those who submit to God’s Word must conclude that it is unreasonable to doubt the Trinity.
      Consider these scriptures proving the Trinity:
      1. Matthew 28:19 The ‘Name’ of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

      Watchtower teaching: JWs ask, ‘Does this verse prove the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal in substance, power and eternity?’ They say, ‘No, no more than listing three people
      Tom, Dick and Harry mean that they are three in one.’ They say that the Trinity doctrine is imposed on the text, not derived from it.

      Bible Teaching: The key point is that the word ‘name’ is singular in the Greek NT, thus proving that there is one God, but three distinct persons within the Godhead.
      This proves the Trinity because Jesus did not say:
      i) ‘into the names (plural) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.’
      ii) ‘into the name of the Father, and into the name of the Son, and into the name of the Holy Spirit’, as if we had three separate beings.
      iii) ‘into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit’ omitting the three articles (the), as if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit might be three designations of a single person.
      What He does say is: ‘into the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit’.
      Jesus first teaches the unity of the three by combining them all within a single name.
      He then teaches that each is a different person by introducing each of them in turn with the
      article (tou):
      Question: Can you see that rules of grammar dictate plurality (the, the, the) within unity (the name), because the word ‘name’ is singular and definite articles (Greek: tou) are placed in front of Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
      Other verses showing ‘three-in-oneness’ of the Godhead are:
      i) At the creation of man, ‘God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness . .’ (Genesis 1:26). ‘Our image’ in v. 26 is explained as God’s image in v. 27.
      The one true God consists of three persons who are able to confer with one another and carry out their plans together, while still being one God.
      ii) After the Fall, ‘the Lord (Jehovah) God (Elohim) said, Behold, the man is become as one of us . ’ (Genesis 3:22)
      ‘Us’ refers back to LORD (Jehovah), showing plurality within the Jehovah Godhead.

      iii) At the Tower of Babel, ‘the LORD (Jehovah), said . . let us go down’ (Genesis 11:6,7).
      iv) Isaiah ‘saw the Lord (Adonai) sitting upon a throne (v.1) mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts (v.5). I heard the voice of the Lord (Adonai) saying: ‘Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?’’ (Isaiah 6:1,5,8) Here Isaiah sees ‘Adonai’ on the throne, then Isaiah calls Him ‘Jehovah of hosts’ (v.5).

      Then Adonai asks,‘Who will go for us?’The ‘us’ shows plurality in the Jehovah Godhead. This equivalence of Adonai and Jehovah (both called ‘us’) proves the Trinity Godhead.
      2. Genesis 18 and 19. Three men each called Jehovah.
      JWs believe that it is impossible for Jehovah God to exist as three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Yet Genesis 18 and 19 shows Jehovah appearing to Abraham as three men. This
      shows that even the impossible from a human viewpoint is possible with God. Notice that:

      i) Abraham addresses the three as ‘Jehovah’ (v.3 NWT);
      ii) When two of the three men depart to visit Lot in Sodom, Abraham continues to address the remaining one as ‘Jehovah’ (Genesis 18:22,26,27,30,31,32,33).
      iii) Lot addressed the other two as ‘Jehovah’ (Genesis 19:1,18 NWT). ‘Then Lot said to them: “Not that please, Jehovah”.’ (19:18 NWT)
      iv) ‘Then Jehovah made it rain sulphur and fire from Jehovah, from the heavens upon Sodom and Gomorra.’ (Genesis 19:24)
      Notice the mention here of two Jehovahs, one in heaven who sends judgment on Sodom and Gomorra, at the bidding of the other Jehovah on earth.
      This gives strong evidence for more than one person in the Godhead. The Jehovah upon earth was one of three persons to visit Abraham, one of whom stays behind to speak further to Abraham and is called Jehovah. (Genesis 21:1 ‘Jehovah turned his attention to Sarah’).
      Hence this shows that it is possible for Jehovah to manifest Himself as three-in-one.
       
      3. II Corinthians 3:17 - ‘Jehovah is the Spirit’ (NWT).
       
      JWs challenge Christians to prove the Trinity in the Bible. This can be done if we find verses teaching that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah God, and the Son is Jehovah God.
      II Corinthians 3:17 teaches this by saying: ‘Now Jehovah is the Spirit.’

      How much clearer can it be than this, which states that the Holy Spirit is (=) Jehovah God? This proves the Deity of the Holy Spirit, and the existence of 2 persons in the Godhead.
      4. I John 5:7,8 The Johannine Comma, the famous Trinitarian proof text (3 Heavenly witnesses)
      Watchtower teaching: JWs claim that this passage ought not to be in the Bible, because it is not in most Greek manuscripts. It is omitted by most modern Bible versions. ’
      Bible Teaching: Erasmus omitted it from his first edition of the printed Greek NT (1516), because it occurred in the Latin Vulgate and not in any Greek manuscript. To quieten the
      outcry that followed, he agreed to restore it if it could be found in one Greek manuscript.
      Two Greek manuscripts, Codex 61 and 629 were found, so Erasmus included it in his 1522 edition. Since these manuscripts are late (14th and 15th Century), some think the readings are
      corrupt. What do we answer? (See page 805-806).

      5. In II Corinthians 13:14, (the Apostolic Benediction) why is there a change in the order of the persons of the Trinity, compared to Matthew 28:19, if not to show that ‘in this Trinity
      none is before or after the other, and none is greater or less than another’?

      ‘The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.’ (II Corinthians 13:14)
      ‘Baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.’ Matt. 28:19
    • By Jesus.defender
      Isaiah 9:6 - Is Jesus ‘a Mighty God’ or ‘Jehovah God’?

      ‘His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God (410), the Everlasting
      Father, the Prince of Peace’.
      Watchtower teaching: JWs concede that Jesus is a ‘mighty God’, but they are adamant that
      He is not Almighty God as Jehovah is. They think that Christ is one of lesser gods.
      Bible teaching: The Bible shows that both Jesus and Jehovah are called ‘Mighty God’.
      Jehovah is called ‘Mighty God’ in:
      a) ‘The remnant of Israel . . . shall stay upon Jehovah, the remnant of Jacob shall return . .
      unto the mighty God (410)’. (Isaiah 10:20,21).
      b) ‘the Great, the Mighty God (410), Jehovah of hosts, is his name’. (Jeremiah 32:18).
      Because Jehovah and Jesus are both called ‘Mighty God’, this proves Christ’s equality with
      God the Father.
      Ask: Since Jehovah is called ‘Mighty God’ (Isaiah 10:21) just as Jesus is called ‘Mighty
      God’ (Isaiah 9:6), doesn’t this mean that the Watchtower is wrong in saying that ‘Mighty
      God’ means a lesser deity?
      Ask: If both Jesus and Jehovah are ‘Mighty God’, then what does this tell you about Jesus’
      divine nature?
      Ask: If both Jesus and Jehovah are equally ‘Mighty God’, then isn’t this two members of
      the Trinity?
      Note: There is only one Mighty God in heaven:
      a) ‘I am the first and I am the last; beside me there is no God (430)’. (Isaiah 44:6b)
      b) ‘Is there a God (433) besides Me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any’.(Isaiah 44:8b).
      c) ‘I am the Lord (YHWH), and there is none else,there is no God beside me’(Isaiah 45:5a)
      The NWT translates John 1:1 as ‘the word was a god’.
      Isaiah 44:8b shows this to be false by denying the existence of ‘a god’ other than Jehovah.
      The phrase ‘Mighty God’ is ‘Elohim’ in Hebrew, meaning ‘Fullness of power’, portraying
      Christ as the ‘powerful Governor of the universe’.
      Notice that ‘Elohim (430)’ is also used to describe Jehovah God as:
      i) ‘The God (430) of the whole earth’. (Isaiah 54:5)
      ii) ‘The God (430) of all flesh’. (Jeremiah 32:27)
      iii) ‘I prayed to the God (430) of heaven’. (Nehemiah 2:4)
      iv) ‘For the Lord (YHWH) your God (430) is God (430) of gods....a great God.’(Deut 10:17)
      In Isaiah 40:3 Jesus is called both Jehovah (3068) and Elohim (430) in the same verse:
      ‘Prepare ye the way of the Jehovah, make straight in the desert a highway for our God (430)’.
      Mark 1:3 and John 1:23 apply Jehovah here to Jesus.
      Question: What is meant by calling Jesus ‘Everlasting Father’?
      Since Jesus is not the Father, why does Isaiah call Jesus ‘Everlasting Father’?
      Answer: Jesus considers the Father as someone other than Himself over 200 times in the NT.
      ‘Everlasting Father’ in Isaiah 9:6 means ‘Father of eternity’.
    • By Jesus.defender
      JEHOVAH’S NAME or JESUS CHRIST’S NAME.

      The Watchtower teaches that God’s true Name is Jehovah. They teach that:
      ‘Sometime during the second or third Century CE, the scribes removed the tetragrammaton (JHWH) from both the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures and replaced it with κυριος (Lord) or θεος (God)’. Reference Edition of NWT, 1984, p 1564.
      The Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT) proves that Jesus is Jehovah God.
      On page 10,11 of the 1985 KIT, under the heading ‘Restoring the Divine Name, Jehovah’ we read: ‘the evidence (what evidence?) is that the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures has been tampered with (no proof) . . . Sometime during the second or third centuries CE, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) was eliminated from the Greek texts by copyists (no proof).
      Instead of YHWH they substituted the words Kurios (‘Lord’) and Theos (‘God’).’
      Note: This is a lie. There is no historical or manuscript evidence or evidence of protest to support this claim. Somebody would have protested such a change.No one did. It never happened.
      The New World Translation (NWT) is the JW perversion of the Bible made to support their false doctrines. It inserts the name ‘Jehovah’ in the New Testament in the place of God (θεος=theos) or Lord (κυριος =kurios) on 237 occasions, where they believe it refers to God the
      Father. They often refer to Hebrew translations of the NT to see where this has been done.
      These are footnoted as J1 to J27. Their dishonesty and deceit is shown by their failure to translate these words as ‘Jehovah’ when it refers to Christ. (eg: Philippians 2:11; Hebrews 1:10).
      JWs say that the proper use of God’s ‘correct’ name (Jehovah) is absolutely essential to one’s salvation. They quote from their NWT: 
      ‘Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.’ Romans 10:13 (NWT).
      ‘People will have to know that I am Jehovah.’ Ezekiel 39:6 (NWT).
      JWs believe that because they are the only group who refer to God by His ‘true’ name, Jehovah, they are the only true followers of God.
      Their claim is false for these reasons:
      1) Jehovah is not a Biblical term. It is a man-made term. The Old Testament has YHWH because the original Hebrew only had consonants. Jews feared taking God’s name in vain, so when they publicly read YHWH, they would pronounce it ‘Adonai’ (Lord).
      Later they inserted the vowels from Adonai (a-o-a) into the consonants YHWH to give YAHOWAH, which became Jehovah. Hence, the word Jehovah comes from a consonantvowel
      combination from YHWH and Adonai.
      2) No-one knows for sure the original correct pronunciation of YHWH. Hence we cannot insist on ‘Jehovah’ as being correct.
      3) Jesus never addressed the Father as Jehovah in the New Testament. If JWs are correct that God must be always called Jehovah, then Jesus was sinning by not calling God ‘Jehovah’. When the NWT puts Jehovah in Jesus’ mouth in the NT, it contradicts all the NT manuscripts which don’t have it.
      QUESTION: Since Jesus never in the NT addressed the Father as Jehovah, why should we?
      4) Jesus and the Apostle Paul tell us to address God as ‘Father’:
      a) Jesus taught us to pray to God as ‘Our Father’, not ‘Our Jehovah’: ‘After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father.....’ (Matthew 6:9).
      b) Jesus addressed God as Father in His own prayers:
      ‘I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth’. (Matthew 11:25).
      ‘O my Father, if it be possible.......’ (Matthew 26:39,42).
      ‘He said, Abba, Father.......’ (Mark 14:36).
      ‘ I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven.......’ (Luke 10:21).
      ‘Saying, Father, if thou be willing.......’ (Luke 22:42).
      ‘Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them;.......’ (Luke 23:34).
      ‘Father, the hour is come......’ (John 17:1).
      c) Paul said, ‘we cry, Abba, Father.’ (Romans 8:15).
      d) The Holy Spirit through Paul said, ‘God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father’. (Galatians 4:6).
      Here the Holy Spirit of God tells us to call God ‘Abba, Father’, not ‘Jehovah’
      QUESTION: If Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Paul all address God as Father nine times (and never as Jehovah) then shouldn’t we call God ‘Father’?
      5) No Ancient NT manuscripts contain the tetragram (YHWH) to translate as Jehovah.
      The Church writers before 325 AD only mention Jehovah once in passing. JWs tell us that most Bible versions deceive people because they omit Jehovah as God’s Name, so
      the JWs dishonestly add the word ‘Jehovah’ to the NT text, even though it is not in any NT Greek manuscript, ancient version, papyri or lectionary.
      The WT’s claim that ‘Jehovah’ as God’s name was removed from the NT by superstitious scribes, is a total lie with no supporting historical or manuscript evidence.
      6) Whose Name did the early Christians identify themselves with? Was it Jehovah or was it Jesus Christ? Always Jesus Christ, never Jehovah.
      Who knows more, the Apostles or modern JWs? Consider these examples:
      a) The Apostles never used the name ‘Jehovah’.
      b) The Apostles and first century Christians were never called ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’. ‘The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.’ (Acts 11:26).
      c) There is no proof that Jesus or his disciples ever pronounced the tetragram YHWH. 
      JWs claim that when Jesus read from Isaiah 61:1 ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me....’ as quoted in Luke 4:18,19, that Jesus pronounced the word ‘YHWH’.
      This is most unlikely. JWs assume that the religious leaders endorsing Christ’s ‘gracious words’ in verse 22 was because He uttered the name YHWH?
      Historical records in the Mishnah, from Josephus, and from other sources show the Jews were loathe to allow the name YHWH to be used. The Jews would not have tolerated it being used by anybody but the High Priest.Jesus would have read ‘Adonai’
      7) 119 Bible passages referring to Jehovah, are quoted and applied to Christ in the New Testament (Proof Available)
      QUESTION: In view of 119 Bible verses applying ‘Jehovah’ to Christ in the NT, what does this tell you about who Christ is?
      ? The New Testament tells us to name the name of Jesus Christ, not the name of Jehovah. Consider these examples:
      1. ‘Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.’(II Timothy 2:19)
      2. ‘I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ . . .’ (I Cor 1:10)
      3. ‘Ye are washed,....sanctified,... justified in the name of the Lord Jesus ’ (I Cor 6:11)
      4. ‘Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus.’ (Col 3:17)
      5. ‘That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you....’ (II Thess 1:12)
      6. ‘Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves.....’ (II Thess. 3:6)
      7. ‘all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.’ (I Corinthians 1:2)
      8. ‘Thou holdest fast my name....’ Jesus said to the Pergamos church. (Revelation 2:13).
      JWs have not held fast Christ’s name, nor have they called upon Christ’s name, nor do they name the name of Christ, nor is Jesus Christ precious to them, because they do not have saving belief in Him. ‘Unto you . . . which believe He is precious’.(I Peter 2:7).
      QUESTION: Where does the NT tell us to name the name of Jehovah?
      9) The New Testament always lifts up Jesus Christ’s name, not Jehovah’s name. Why?
      Because Jesus Christ is Jehovah God on earth. Christ is 100% God and 100% man.
      Q1: In whose name should we meet together?
      ‘Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.’ (Matthew 18:20)
      Q2: Demons were cast out by the authority of whose name?
      ‘Paul.....said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.’ (Acts 16:18)
      Q3: In whose name should we preach repentance and forgiveness of sins? ‘And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations. And ye are witnesses of these things.’ (Luke 24:47,48)
      Q4: In whose name are we to believe and receive forgiveness of sins? ‘....through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.’ (Acts 10:43, John 1:12)
      Q5: By whose name, and no other, do we obtain salvation? Acts 4:10,12 says: ‘by the name of Jesus Christ ... Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.’
      Q6: In whose name should we pray? John 16:23,24; 14:13,14; 15:16 says: ‘Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.’
      Q7: In whose name is the Holy Spirit sent?
      ‘But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name......’ (John 14:26)
      Q8: In whose name and authority did the disciples heal the sick?
      ‘His name through faith in his name hath made this man strong’ (Acts 3:16; 4:30)
      Q9: Whose name did Paul say that we are to call upon?
      ‘ all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.’ (I Cor 1:2)
      Q10: Whose name is above every name?
      ‘God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name .... that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.’(Phil 2:9-11)
      Paul’s quote about Christ is from Isaiah 45:22-24 where every knee will bow to Jehovah. What is true about Jehovah, is also true of Christ, the Lord of all mankind
      Q11: According to Acts 1:8, of whom are we to be witnesses?
      ‘Ye shall be witnesses unto me (Jesus)’
      Q12: In whose name were believers baptized?
      ‘they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus’. (Acts 8:16; 2:38)
      Q13: In whose name were believers designated?
      ‘the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch’. (Acts 11:26)
      Q14: In whose name did the apostles speak?
      ‘Commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus’ Acts 4:17,18
      Q15: In whose name did early Christians suffer? Acts 15:26 says:
      ‘Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.’ ‘rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name’Acts 5:41;9:16
      Q16: Whose name was Paul to carry?
      ‘Lord said: He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.’ (Acts 9:15)
      Q17: In whose name did Paul deliver a man to Satan?
      ‘In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ...to deliver such an one to Satan.’ I Cor 5:4,5
      Q18: In whose name did the apostles teach? Acts 5:28; 8:12 says:
      ‘Did we not straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name?’
      10) Why does WT break their own rule (where the OT speaks of Jehovah), that they do not insert Jehovah in the NT, when the quote clearly refers to Christ?
      Peter quotes from Joel 2:32 (spoken of Jehovah) and applies it to Jesus in Acts 2:21 and 38.
      Calling on the name of Jehovah for salvation equals repenting and being baptised in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of sins.
      Conclusion: Jesus shares the nature of His Father and His Name. The absence of YHWH in any NT manuscript demolishes the WT case of introducing the word ‘Jehovah’ into the NT.
      Question: If God was so concerned about preserving His covenant name, why did the apostles not preserve it in their writings?
      Question: To imply that the name ‘Jehovah’ is the main name of God that we are to use, contradicts the continued NT use of the name ‘Jesus’ on 900 occasions, while the tetragram YHWH is used nowhere in the NT.
      QUESTION: Why does the WT not translate ‘Jehovah’ into Hebrews 1:10, I Peter 3:15 andPhilippians 2:11, when the OT passages from which these are quoted refer to YHWH?

      We are to make the name of the Father known as Jesus emphasized (Matthew 6:9; John 17:26). How do we do it? By recognizing that Jesus Christ was chosen by the Father to embody all the glory and important reputation of that Name.
       
    • By Jesus.defender
      Mormonism says there are many Gods and that you can become one, they say Jesus and satan are brothers, they say Jesus did NOT make atonement on the cross. They say God the father was once a MAN who had to EARN His way to become a God. They say you must learn secret handshakes and passwords and wear special underwear in order to live with God the father when you die. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all human beings, male and female, are beloved spirit children of heavenly parents, a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. In no way can mormonism be classed as "Christian"
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      http://kutv.com/news/local/mormon-support-for-gay-marriage-gradually-grows

      SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of gay marriage despite her religion's opposition for a simple reason: She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best friend who is a bisexual man.
      "I can't look at him and his boyfriend and tell them that they can't be happy and they can't love each other," said Landers, 20, of Draper, Utah. "Heavenly Father loves us for who we are. He wants us to be happy, as long as we're treating people well and we're being who we truly are and we're not hurting anyone."
      She is among a growing number of young Mormons driving the faith's gradual acceptance of same-sex marriages, even though the religion's support still lags well behind national approval and those of Catholics, Muslims and Jews, according to the survey released this week by the Public Religion Research Institute.
      The survey found that 40 percent of Mormons in the United States supported gay marriage in 2017, up from 27 percent in 2014.
      Among Mormons between the ages of 18-29, the acceptance is 52 percent. That's up from 43 percent in 2014.
      Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who are 65 and older have the lowest rate of support at 32 percent, according a survey based on about 40,000 phone interviews done last year. That's up from 18 percent in 2014.
      Nationally, 61 percent of Americans support gay marriage, up from 52 percent in 2013.
      The Utah-based religion of 16 million worldwide members has held firm to its opposition of gay marriage and homosexual activity while trying to foster an empathetic stance toward LGBTQ people.
      Last year, church leaders updated a website to advise that attraction to people of the same sex is not a sin or a measure of their faithfulness and may never go away. But the church reminded members that being in an intimate same-sex relationship is a sin.
      Among religious groups included in the survey, only white evangelical Protestants and Jehovah's Witnesses had lower levels of support for gay marriage. Support was higher among Catholics (about 65 percent), Muslims (51 percent) and Jews (77 percent).
      The survey found that Mormons had the largest gap between support for gay marriage and support for anti-discrimination laws to protect LGBT people. While only 40 percent of Mormons favor gay marriage, 69 percent support anti-discrimination laws.
      Luis Miranda, a 30-year-old heterosexual Mormon, said he wasn't surprised by the survey results because he senses a shifting tone among other young Mormons in the singles congregation he attends.
      He said he grew up as a Catholic in Guatemala believing that traditional marriage between a man and a woman was sacred and important. He continued to hold that belief after he moved to Utah as a teenager and converted to Mormonism.
      But as he grew older, he realized he needed to meet and spend more time with gays and lesbians. "I realized they were just as beautiful and loving with each other, and as pure as anyone else," said Miranda, of Salt Lake City.
      Miranda said he sometimes struggles to reconcile his opinion with what church leaders are teaching. He believes Mormon leaders have good intentions. He is committed to remain in the religion to be a voice of support for gay marriage.
      He finds hope in the fact that the religion believes church doctrine can be altered through revelations from God. That's how the church explained why it lifted the ban on blacks in the religion's lay priesthood in 1978.
      "If it's happened before, it could happen again," Miranda said.
    • By Bible Speaks
      Just Look Up and See the Stars You'll Knows w Who You Can Trust?********************************************
      Who Can You Trust? Man? Pilots? The Plane? 
      How many of us have flown in an airplane friends? When we fly from one place to another, we put our trust in the pilot to get us to our destination safely and in one piece. 
      However sometimes we may encounter some turbulence in the skies,as long as we arrive safely, this is only a small price to pay. Likewise with today's thought, consider the following quote, "JEHOVAH PROMISES A SAFE LANDING, NOT A CALM PASSAGE". When we serve Jehovah, we often think that we will have total protection from the elements of this world. However Jehovah does not promise that at all, he simply promises us that if we do as he says, we will have "a safe landing" so to speak, he will provide the way out for us even if it isn't a "calm passage" on the way. 
      Things will always be rough and hard in these last days of this system of things, however as today's thought says, Jehovah promises a safe landing, he will be with us all the way right down to the end of the system of things, things may get rough along the way, but Jehovah promises to be there with us all the way to help us have a safe arrival and landing right on into the new system of things. 
      Do we have faith that he will do this for us brothers and sisters? Jehovah has never let us down before and he won't let us down now friends. "Jehovah has shown mercy to those who fear him. For he well knows how we are formed, Remembering that we are dust."
      (Ps 103:13,14) 
      JW.Org

    • By Anna
      The God delusion- are Jehovah's Witnesses the exception?
      Religion seems to be more divisive and destructive than any other belief system. Why does the belief in a superhuman power bear such "rotten fruit"? 
      Each religion claims they are the one and only true religion. Is there such a thing as the only true Religion, and one that actually bears "good fruit"?
      Please watch the documentary below and feel free to share any observations you might have, or comment on the problem of religion and belief you have identified and/or the areas where Jehovah's Witnesses differ....etc.
      At the end of the video Dawkins asks imploringly, appealing to our sense of gratitude: “People sometimes say there must be more to this life....but how much more do you want”?
      I guess you can present that question to someone who was born in poverty and disease, and has no way out. Or you can ask someone who has been diagnosed with a fatal illness and has no way of getting better. Or you can ask someone who has lost loved ones who cannot be brought back.  I am sure they would tell you they wished for more.....  
       
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Call it the WikiLeaks of the religion world.
      A new website called FaithLeaks aims to bring transparency to the workings of religious congregations and denominations by publishing documents and data sets provided by anonymous sources.
      The web portal was founded by two former Mormons who have previously gained access to documents shedding light on the inner workings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its position on controversial issues such as gay marriage.
      This week, the two founders — Ryan McKnight and Ethan Dodge — published a trove of 33 letters and documents detailing an internal investigation of alleged sexual abuse within a congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
      The pair hopes to entice others to submit documents that shed light on three main areas: congregational finances, church policies and procedures, and documents related to sex abuse settlements.
       “Our goal is to reduce the amount of deception and untruths and unethical behaviors that exist in some facets of religion,” said McKnight, an accountant who lives in Las Vegas. “If someone is in possession of documents they feel deserve to be made public, we’re simply here to help facilitate that.”
      https://sojo.net/articles/ex-mormons-launch-faithleaks-root-out-abuse-and-corruption-churches
    • By Queen Esther
      World-Famous Scientist:  God  Created  the  Universe !
      ‘The final resolution could be,  that God is a mathematician.’
      ( GOD  is much  more  than  that !)
      Michio Kaku has made a name for himself as a world-leading theoretical physicist unafraid to speak his mind.
      Kaku, the Henry Semat Chair and Professorship in theoretical physics at the City College of New York, has published more than 70 articles in physics journals on topics such as supersymmetry, superstring theory, supergravity, and hadronic physics.
      His latest claim is likely to make waves in the world of science.
      “I have concluded that we are in a world made by rules created by an intelligence,” Kaku said, as quoted by the Geophilosophical Association of Anthropological and Cultural Studies. “To me it is clear that we exist in a plan which is governed by rules that were created, shaped by a universal intelligence and not by chance.”
      In a 2013 video produced by Big Think, Kaku described God as "cosmic music." (Big Think, a media site launched in 2007, has been described as YouTube for ideas. But itÂ’s actually more like TED.)
      You can watch the video and see for yourself why Kaku believes science points to an intelligent creator who formed the universe. (IÂ’m certainly not going to try to explain it.)
      KakuÂ’s conclusion is pretty clear.
      “The final solution resolution could be that God is a mathematician,” says Kaku. “The mind of God, we believe, is cosmic music. The music of strings resonating through 11-dimensional hyperspace.” 
      Michio Kaku says,  that God could be a mathematician:  "The mind of God we believe is cosmic music, the music of strings resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace. That is the mind of God." Transcript-- Some people ask the question "Of what good is math?" What is the relationship between math and physics? Well, sometimes math leads. Sometimes physics leads. Sometimes they come together because, of course, there's a use for the mathematics. For example, in the 1600s Isaac Newton asked a simple question: if an apple falls then does the moon also fall? That is perhaps one of the greatest questions ever asked by a member of Homo sapiens since the six million years since we parted ways with the apes. If an apple falls, does the moon also fall? Isaac Newton said yes, the moon falls because of the Inverse Square Law. So does an apple. He had a unified theory of the heavens, but he didn't have the mathematics to solve the falling moon problem. So what did he do? He invented calculus. So calculus is a direct consequence of solving the falling moon problem. In fact, when you learn calculus for the first time, what is the first thing you do? The first thing you do with calculus is you calculate the motion of falling bodies, which is exactly how Newton calculated the falling moon, which opened up celestial mechanics. So here is a situation where math and physics were almost conjoined like Siamese twins, born together for a very practical question, how do you calculate the motion of celestial bodies? Then here comes Einstein asking a different question and that is, what is the nature and origin of gravity? Einstein said that gravity is nothing but the byproduct of curved space. So why am I sitting in this chair? A normal person would say I'm sitting in this chair because gravity pulls me to the ground, but Einstein said no, no, no, there is no such thing as gravitational pull; the earth has curved the space over my head and around my body, so space is pushing me into my chair. So to summarize Einstein's theory, gravity does not pull; space pushes. But, you see, the pushing of the fabric of space and time requires differential calculus. That is the language of curved surfaces, differential calculus, which you learn in fourth year calculus. So again, here is a situation where math and physics were very closely combined, but this time math came first. The theory of curved surfaces came first. Einstein took that theory of curved surfaces and then imported it into physics. Now we have string theory. It turns out that 100 years ago math and physics parted ways. In fact, when Einstein proposed special relativity in 1905, that was also around the time of the birth of topology, the topology of hyper-dimensional objects, spheres in 10, 11, 12, 26, whatever dimension you want, so physics and mathematics parted ways. Math went into hyperspace and mathematicians said to themselves, aha, finally we have found an area of mathematics that has no physical application whatsoever. Mathematicians pride themselves on being useless. They love being useless. It's a badge of courage being useless, and they said the most useless thing of all is a theory of differential topology and higher dimensions. Well, physics plotted along for many decades. We worked out atomic bombs. We worked out stars. We worked out laser beams, but recently we discovered string theory, and string theory exists in 10 and 11 dimensional hyperspace. Not only that, but these dimensions are super. They're super symmetric. A new kind of numbers that mathematicians never talked about evolved within string theory. That's how we call it "super string theory." Well, the mathematicians were floored. They were shocked because all of a sudden out of physics came new mathematics, super numbers, super topology, super differential geometry. All of a sudden we had super symmetric theories coming out of physics that then revolutionized mathematics, and so the goal of physics we believe is to find an equation perhaps no more than one inch long which will allow us to unify all the forces of nature and allow us to read the mind of God. And what is the key to that one inch equation? Super symmetry, a symmetry that comes out of physics, not mathematics, and has shocked the world of mathematics. But you see, all this is pure mathematics and so the final resolution could be that God is a mathematician. And when you read the mind of God, we actually have a candidate for the mind of God. The mind of God we believe is cosmic music, the music of strings resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace. That is the mind of God. Directed / Produced by Jonathan Fowler & Elizabeth Rodd.  --
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      Donald Duck ? Shrimp ? Strange to me. Created by Jehovah God
      ?????

      Meet the Donald Duck Shrimp--the shrimp with a size, body shape and orange color perfect for hiding in coral environments. 
      #Repost @natgeowild
      ・・・Tap on MP4 Video Link___Enjoy!
      IMG_5618.MP4
    • By Brother Rando
      How would you answer this question? Are there any scriptures that point to Jesus Christ being the Angel of God's Presence?
    • By Bible Speaks
      'All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Rom. 3:23.
      ????????
      Fear may paralyze us—fear of making the wrong decision, fear of failure, or fear of appearing foolish to others. Even so, love of God and his Word can help us shrink our fears.
      ????????
      In what ways? Love of God will motivate us always to consult his Word and Bible-based publications before we make important decisions. 
      ????????
      We will thus minimize the number of mistakes we make. Why? Because the Bible can “give to the inexperienced ones shrewdness, to a young man knowledge and thinking ability.” (Prov. 1:4) 
      ????????
      Will we always make the right decision? No. All of us make mistakes. King David, for example, was a wise and faithful man. Yet, he at times made poor decisions that caused suffering to himself and others. (2 Samuel 12:9-12) Why did you despise the word of Jehovah by doing what is bad in his eyes? U·ri′ah the Hit′tite you struck down with the sword, and his wife you took as your wife, and him you killed by the sword of the sons of Am′mon. 10 And now a sword will not depart from your own house to time indefinite, as a consequence of the fact that you despised me so that you took the wife of U·ri′ah the Hit′tite to become your wife.’ 11 This is what Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am raising up against you calamity out of your own house; and I will take your wives under your own eyes and give them to your fellowman, and he will certainly lie down with your wives under the eyes of this sun. 12 Whereas you yourself acted in secret, I, for my part, shall do this thing in front of all Israel and in front of the sun.’”
      ????????
      Nevertheless, David did not let his mistakes undermine his ability to make decisions that had God’s favor. (1 Kings 15:4-5) For, on account of David, Jehovah his God gave him a lamp in Jerusalem by raising his son up after him and keeping Jerusalem in existence, 5 because David did what was right in the eyes of Jehovah, and he did not turn aside from anything that He had commanded him all the days of his life, only in the matter of U·ri′ah the Hit′tite."
      w11 4/15 2:6, 7
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      Confidently Press On With Complete Trust in God!
      ????
      (Psalm 4:8) . . ."In peace I will both lie down and sleep, For you yourself alone, O Jehovah, make me dwell in security." David concludes this psalm with the words: “In peace I will both lie down and sleep, for you yourself alone, O Jehovah, make me dwell in security.” (Ps. 4:8) 
      ????
      When the Israelites kept Jehovah’s Law, they were at peace with him and felt secure. For instance, ‘Judah and Israel dwelt in security’ during Solomon’s reign. (1 Ki. 4:25) Those trusting in God enjoyed peace even when neighboring nations were hostile. Like David, we sleep peacefully because God makes us feel secure. 
      ????
      Let us confidently press on in Jehovah’s service. May we also pray in faith and thus experience “the peace of God that excels all thought.” (Phil. 4:6, 7) What joy that brings us! And we can surely face the future with confidence if we maintain complete trust in Jehovah.

    • By The Librarian
      Does the Bible teach that God is everywhere? Why can you be confident that he resides in a specific place, yet also knows you personally?
      Source
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    • Agreed.  What they want is a government which will outlaw the bible and Jesus (I think of Matt 24 where it indicates that those having faith in jesus' randsom sacrifice will be persecuted). California recently tabled a law which would have basically outlawed the bible - but it did not pass...... but how long before it does?  We cannot be deceived to take sides because some political party is 'perceived'  as loving God a little more than the other side and fights infantacide...... when they are in fact - the beast.  The racial hatred and injustice in USA has tripled in the past few years because of official statements made,  perceptions created and the outrageous reaction of the opposing press......it is like a cold civil war going on. On the other side of the beast is the secular, humanist, feminist, LGBTQ, materialist goals and this side has a stated hate for the God of the bible and its white supremacist leaders... (again a generalization:  but its members belong to a party who loves Islam and shuns the bible's values - even if they go to church.)  For us as JWs - there is no choice between the two...... because both are playing their part to lead us to Armageddon..... the one a little faster than the other. Human government sucks and it gets clearer and clearer every day.  We should keep focussed on Jehovahs government.... watch just enough news to know where things are going..... and keep focussed on preaching and building each other up.
    • There are dozens. When I mentioned going back 300 years I was thinking that a lot of people start with Matthew Henry's from the 1700's. https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mhc/Dan/Dan_004.cfm?a=854001 But there are many more modern ones these days that might appear too long, but that's partly because they also reprint the entire Bible text, split up into sections. https://wernerbiblecommentary.org/?q=node/732 https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/jfb/Dan/Dan_004.cfm?a=854001 https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Dan/Dan_001.cfm?a=854001 The Chapter 4 portion of this one, above, includes the following supposition: The seven times are probably a year and three quarters. Referring to the summer, fall, winter, spring, rather than seven years. And so for a year and three quarters, king Nebuchadnezzar was to be insane. He was to live with the ox and out in the field. He was to eat grass like a wild animal. This was to continue until he realize that the God in heaven is the One who rules over the earth as far as establishing kingdoms and setting in power those whom He will. God still rules in the overall sense. And sometimes God puts evil men into power in order to bring judgment upon the people. But God rules over all. So after Daniel interprets, he said, "Now look, king, straighten up, man. Live right. You know, it may be that you can increase the days of your peace because you know this is going to come on you. But maybe by living right you can forestall it a bit." [Others have guessed 7 "time periods" were 7 months. But the point is, that we don't know for sure] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide2017-Dan/Dan-4.cfm?a=854001 That one, above, includes the idea that if there is any further prophetic significance to the dream, that it could mean this: Some find prophetic significance in this account. Since Babylon is used in the Scriptures as a figure of the world system in general, we can say: · Nebuchadnezzar’s madness foreshadows the madness of Gentile nations in their rejection of God. · Nebuchadnezzar’s fall typifies Jesus’ judgment of the nations. · Nebuchadnezzar’s restoration foreshadows the restoring of some of these nations in the millennial kingdom.  
    • This is so typical.....loved this experience !  People are people, and their ideas on neutrality are not the same - even after the lessons have been repeated over and over  in the watchtower.  Keeping neutral .... but not understanding what true neutrality is.   Neutrality does not mean you are not supposed to know what is happening around you or that someone has to be silenced when they mention something ... But I reckon.... this is where true humility comes into play and for the sake of peace,  refrain from having  your say.  It can also come back to bite you. There is a time to keep silent. Neutrality is making a choice every time an issue comes up.  Granted, it us hard not to take sides when you have an idea about who is lying in a particular situation....!  But deceit and lying is all part of the political game. These politicians gave up something to be where they are.  Truth and sincerity are replaced by ambition and lies and many hidden deals.  I am astounded at the open nepotism tolerated everywhere in Washington- on both sides of the isle! People have truly lost their moral compass!   And the staggering amounts of money to be made ....... poor politicians become multi-millionaires pretty quickly .... and so do their children make tons of money and extend their influence in other countries!   These days, no politician  can fight a clean fight and expect to win..... too much spying,  false leaks in the news, misinformation and outright acrimony.  I do watch world news and events to see fulfillment of bible prophecy.  No matter who wins the next election - USA is on a downward spiral and the spectators will be agast when they realise the plane is totally out of control.  The speed of the decent depends on who is next elected....... the speed of the decent may be fast or slow.  The self-deceit of the public is amazing and helped by the press who mostly tell the public what they want to hear.   America will still exist when the end comes but it will have handed over it power willingly to the eighth king....... So, if a certain party - which is very willing to hand over its autonomy, wins - then I will gauge that the decent will be faster than i anticipated......  The "clay and iron" has reached a point of  irreconcileability......and this same scenario is playing out in Europe, Australia, Canada etc.  (Bible so accurate in its predictions) . In the meantime Russia, China and all their allies are extending their economic influence and territories. It is really now just a matter of time then things will truly become ugly and we will know that we have arrived at the time we were waiting for!  We will see jehovah in action! 
    • That's already been done. Just read nearly any Bible commentary on Daniel 4 written during the last 300 years or so.
    • Yes That immediately crossed my mind too! And also when talking about the pyramids, he quoted Rutherford who said "Jehovah doesn't need a stone monument built by pagans to accomplish his purpose" it made me think why would he use pagan Nebuchadnezzar to illustrate Christ's rulership?
    • Do you mean go first to explain 1914 as a true possibility in a simpler way? Or do you mean go first to explain Daniel 4 in a simpler way (with or without 1914)? The funny thing is that Brother Splane without realizing it, I think, already gave a very appropriate analogy for what's wrong with the 1914 doctrine when he decided to point out some particularly ridiculous "typologies" that did things like try to make something out of the number of fish caught by the disciples after Jesus was resurrected, namely, 153. Then he went on to show the ridiculousness of trying to read too much into the story of Jacob and Esau and the bowl of stew. Brother Splane said: One scholar made much of Jacob’s purchase of Esau’s birthright with a bowl of red stew. Very significant that the stew was red. To him, the red stew pictured the red blood of Christ. The inheritance pictured the heavenly inheritance. It’s all… By that reasoning, Jacob pictures Jesus, Esau’s birthright pictures the heavenly inheritance, and the red stew pictures Jesus’ precious blood. Now on the surface that might sound plausible to some, until you think about it. When you think about it you see three problems. First of all, Jehovah didn’t design the type. Jehovah did not tell Esau to sell his birthright. Selling his birthright was wrong, and Jehovah never tells us to do something that’s wrong. Second, who ate the stew? Esau did. So are we to conclude that, by giving up his inheritance, Esau put himself in line for the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ? That doesn’t make any sense. And most importantly, nowhere in Scripture do we read that the event was a type. The temptation to go for chronological numerology over 153 fish should remind us of how we take 7 times and turn them into 7x360 to get the number of Jewish prophetic days using a 360 day year, and then turning each of those 2,520 days into solar years of 365.25 days apiece so that we can get 2,520 solar years, to reach from the fall of Jerusalem down to modern times. And then we must readjust the archaeological dates by about 20 years to make them reach 1914 instead of 1934.  But the biggest problem is the same as the sentences about Esau above, which we can correlate with a similar problem with Nebuchadnezzar: Second, who ate the stew? Esau did. So are we to conclude that, by giving up his inheritance, Esau put himself in line for the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ? That doesn’t make any sense. And most importantly, nowhere in Scripture do we read that the event was a type. Now we can have the same situation regarding Nebuchadnezzar in Splane English Second, who was forced to lose his kingdom and then became insane? Nebuchadnezzar did. So are we to conclude that, by giving up his kingdom and acting insane for a time, that Nebuchadnezzar put himself in line to represent the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ? That doesn't make any sense. And most importantly, nowhere in Scripture do we read that this event was a type.
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