SIX SCREENS OF THE WATCHTOWER

[Srecko Sostar]

On 7/17/2018 at 5:55 AM, Space Merchant said:

Moreover, it should be known to you, even before this, that any person, group, institution and or organization can donate to any person, group, institution and or organization of their choice, which seems to be the case with Ms. Riley.

...accepting donations does not disqualify such ones from their stance of not being part of this world,

Of course, any one can donate. 

Bible words put money and material things (wealth)  in area of "unrighteous riches".

So all that i have and all that you have, are "unrighteous" by  this Bible words. So, all money that is in WT, all money that coming to WT from all kinds of sources, from members or from stocks and shares, in what ever connections might be with WT, is "bad money". Because money is satan product as Bible indicates.

So, WT Company Inc. with all sister Companies around the world, and with all other Entities that Suport WT too, with more or less responsibility, with more or less awareness, with more or less intention are involved in business, transactions, that suport this unrighteous, bad materialistic system. No matter that WT publishing and printing Bible and magazines with Gods words, because the way, mean how money circling and coming from this hands to that hands reveals that deep issue how all money and wealth  coming, in fact, from global exploration of people, JW or non JW .

We are the part of a World. WT is part of the World no matter of their claim how they not. 

Do you have ID cart? Who gave it to you?

 Do WT have ID number as private Company? Who gave it to them?

If yes.... then all who have it are part of the System. And if you are part of System you can not be without Guilt (in this matter- Economic, Money issue guilt on global scale).  

  

 

 

[Space Merchant]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course, any one can donate. 

Bible words put money and material things (wealth)  in area of "unrighteous riches".

Ok, and what you have to realize also anyone who donates can donate to a person, group, organization and or institution of their choosing. Said person, of a group or not, can also make the selected a beneficiary.

You may want to re-read those bible verses, unrighteous riches equals to those using said riches for lawless acts, this is why it is best to look into exactly what the verse says rather than taking a good guess and or mentioning just half of it, thus taking in context.

I really do not see how a group who makes books, builds churches, and preaching, is seen as lawless acts, thus unrighteous riches in terms of money usage.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So all that i have and all that you have, are "unrighteous" by  this Bible words. So, all money that is in WT, all money that coming to WT from all kinds of sources, from members or from stocks and shares, in what ever connections might be with WT, is "bad money".

Can you prove the Watchtower is an owner of stocks and bonds vs. being a beneficiary? That would be a neigh impossible task, granted with the archive of information speaks truth vs. falsehood. Again, the words of the former JW who is neutral and knows the inner workings of stocks and bonds as well as taxes, mutual funds, etc, hits harder than silver bullet.

You have to be more specific on this bad money because all those that have been listed has been mention to be false and it is only known because people are twisting the information and created conspiracy,the same can be said of the whole deal with Watchtower gaining money from Glasgow sports, for as you can see, that has been debunked to be false also.

At the end of the day, The Watchtower is merely a beneficiary. As for Mr. Zelda's response on the matter, this guy really needs to know the difference between tax returns vs. a tax return for a charitable trust (but ends up getting disgruntled ones on his side because of one thing - hate and they believe everything being said without checking the facts) - if you got former members calling this out, surely you now have a problem, your other problem is those, being former who agrees/disagrees with the Watchtower bring this truth to light because of the endless storm of conspiracy.

I am sure if you were in that position, you would make a defense to say you are a beneficiary of the Riley Trust, not it's owner, but those who dislike you will twist the information and state you are the owner, but you will have those who come in your defense, even though they are not much of a fan of you, they will still defend you. This situation has been played out in regards to the Watchtower for years and all false information embedded in conspiracy has been debunked and provide to be both false and unfounded.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because money is satan product as Bible indicates.

Really? so how are you being fed to remain alive, how are you getting clothes keeping you from roaming around in your birthday suit? Moreover, what is allowing you access to the internet by means of an ISP of which you yourself can post here on this site, mainly posting this response? Surely it isn't Satan's money you are using, and I am aware that people who are not living in 3rd world countries are practicing the Bartering System.

Money has been a form of currency for centuries, even in bible times, for it was from Satan himself, then why were the people using money, let alone those who at the time practiced free will offering of currency other than physical products, livestock and gifts?

I don't believe the Bible says anywhere that money is a product of Satan and or make an indication to such (unless you can point this specific verse out, quote it, let's have it then), let us just get that out of the way.

The Bible says the following, 2 primary verses the subject of money vs that of the secondary ones:

• 1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

The next verse

Matthew 6:24 - “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Now let's see how it can be a root of evil. The love of money (not money itself) will result in individual(s) to do vile and the most injurious things, which is indeed fact and true. In the Bible, there are those who are indeed wealthy, like King Solomon, the riches man of the time, who has made mention to several things in regards to love of money and the intent to commit injurious things.

That men of riches tend to not really sleep as much, killing themselves to just get another dollar.

• Ecclesiastes 5:12 - Sweet is the sleep of a laborer, whether he eats little or much, but the full stomach of the rich will not let him sleep.

Such ones are never satisfied, for it is obvious such are highly satisfied with what they have, lovers of their income

• Ecclesiastes 5:10 - He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.

Some being tempted to even break the law itself by doing acts in order to get such wealth

• Proverbs 28:20 - A faithful man will abound with blessings, but whoever hastens to be rich will not go unpunished.

We have seen many examples of such in Bible times, as well as in our day and age and it is ongoing.

Now we also know the Bible says this about money,

• Ecclesiastes 7:12 - For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.

What is common heresy in the world of money to some people is the claim that money buys happiness and security, which we all know is just a mere placebo made by the men in the tall lofty buildings.

• Mark 4:19 - but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

Furthermore, money, however, is an answer to every need

• Ecclesiastes 10:19 -  Bread is made for laughter, and wine gladdens life, and money answers everything.

Money can buy the things you need in order to survive, such as food and anything in medication to aid you, mainly if you are the type to get sick easily and or get some illness as you age (2 Thessalonians 3:12). Money helps you to take care of you, should you take up a path that leads to marriage (unless you are already married) it can be used to support the both of you, should you and your wife decide to have children (unless you have kids already), the money can be used to support not just you and your wife, but your child and or children as well, thus money is used in support to help out the family, and or a community of people, as a whole. Moreover, in the Bible we see the following in 1 Timothy 5:8

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

So should you fail in this domain, as the verse indicates, it makes you far worse than an unbeliever.

• Luke 14:28 - For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?

We are to be using money in a way that is of approval by God the Father

• Luke 16:9 -  And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth, so that when it fails they may receive you into the eternal dwellings.

The very careful and wise use of money must be in complete honesty in usage and it is a responsibly that has to be taken very seriously.

• Hebrews 13:18 - Pray for us, for we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honorably in all things.

We also have to avoid living beyond what we ourselves can handle in terms of using money for living and support purposes, at the same time not succumb to the likes of some in the world who are lovers of money (Hebrews 13:5) and it speaks about debt, even warns us about it (Proverbs 22:7) we also have to avoid the  impulse buying (Proverbs 21:5).

We must set things aside according to our own means and save money for what is  most important (1 Corinthians 16:2). We are encouraged to practice giving (Luke 6:38). Those who want to please God the Father must have good reason to be generous and kind, because God is said to be a lover a cheerful givers (2 Corinthians 9:7, Hebrews 13:16).

That being said, money can be used by both the righteous and unrighteous, for the righteous man will use the money to care for his family and or community, on the other side of the spectrum, the unrighteous will use money for vile things, such as lawless acts, hence unrighteous riches.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So, WT Company Inc. with all sister Companies around the world, and with all other Entities that Suport WT too, with more or less responsibility, with more or less awareness, with more or less intention are involved in business, transactions, that suport this unrighteous, bad materialistic system. No matter that WT publishing and printing Bible and magazines with Gods words, because the way, mean how money circling and coming from this hands to that hands reveals that deep issue how all money and wealth  coming, in fact, from global exploration of people, JW or non JW .

Again, the Watchtower is known as a beneficiary, if you believe as to what you are saying as truth, can you prove the Watchtower is an owner of stocks and bonds vs. being a beneficiary?

The claim of the Riley Trust and mutual funds has been made known, that the Watchtower is not an owner, as disgruntled ones of conspiracy and those accepting such conspiracy has made claim to, for the truth of the matter is the Watchtower is a beneficiary and nothing more.

If you do not know what a Beneficiary is, I will provide links and information because it would seem even nearly 2 decades later, people still do not understand:

What is a Beneficiary - a person who derives advantage from something, especially a trust, will, or life insurance policy.

• https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/102915/can-mutual-funds-have-beneficiaries.asp
• https://www.iii.org/article/what-beneficiary
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneficiary
• https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/beneficiary.asp

The list goes on with a simple google search, mainly in the domain of investing and finance. And it is common for owners of a fund and or trust to donate the money, be it known and or anonymous to a person, group, institution, organization of their choosing.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

We are the part of a World. WT is part of the World no matter of their claim how they not. 

Do you have ID cart? Who gave it to you?

 Do WT have ID number as private Company? Who gave it to them?

Can you prove it instead of making claim? Literally we are part of the world, but when it comes to the world, but Spiritually, should you accept, we are not part of the world at all.

The talk of ID cart and or cards is kind of irrelevant to claim. Can you state the ID number of which you are referring to instead of making claim to it?

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If yes.... then all who have it are part of the System. And if you are part of System you can not be without Guilt (in this matter- Economic, Money issue guilt on global scale).  

Clearly you do not get the idea of not being part of this world even entails, the bible tells you exactly what it means to not be part of the world.

Money guilt? But the former JW who speaks of the funds in question expressed far more truth than what you are displaying here now, the same case could be made of the claim of JWs being part of a sporting event and gaining revenue from it, which has been debunked to be false information and clearly they were only there for a convention.

Again, friend, you really have to wise up on this type of information, let alone the scriptures in the Bible itself, the claim to say that money is a product of Satan irks me, at the same time to speak of such, yet founded to be using money yourself, is kind of hypocritical.

The use of money is only evil unless you make it as so, according to the Bible.

 

 

As for your other response:

Srecko Sostar - thanks for info. For that reason i was deleted my post.

 

You really didn't have to deleted, but as you know what they say, even if you delete something on the internet, it is still there. What you have deleted is still mark as December 9, 2017 and even here, July 17, 2018. For what is written in ink cannot be removed, my friend, but the correction made by means of response is of a help so next time you understand to read and research into things before jumping to conclusions, doing so only leads to problems. If you were to present that claim to the JW known as Katgar, a regular to refuting Trinitarians in the Muslims channels, he would not only correct you, but roast you up badly at the same time. Situations like this we have to avoid so research is always key to understanding something and or someone.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Can you prove the Watchtower is an owner of stocks and bonds

Can you prove they are not?

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Really? so how are you being fed to remain alive

:)))) look at the birds, my Father feed them all ......

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

I don't believe the Bible says anywhere that money is a product of Satan and or make an indication to such

Does Bible anywhere said how this or that religion in our century  is product of satan ..... or of god

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Can you prove it instead of making claim? Literally we are part of the world, but when it comes to the world, but Spiritually, should you accept, we are not part of the world at all.

So you are JW who spiritually is not part of this world? That is nice.

I will provide links from Australian government site about Australian Branch. Only to illustrate, the same is around the world. Watchtower have Identity number and in this case it is Charity ABN 42002861225 (ABN is Australian Business Number), and they have additional business name - "Watchtower Travel".  Travel Company? :)))))

 https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=91956EB4-F967-4486-8D20-89B6E9A28BCC&noleft=1

http://www.abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/42002861225

https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/bySearchId.jspx?searchId=69158541&searchIdType=BUSN&_adf.ctrl-state=ptvq0dfmh_4

[Space Merchant]

31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Can you prove they are not?

The prove is seen in the response from the source itself, coming from a former JW who spoke of Trust, stocks and bonds information, its on page 2.The only reason I made the question directed to you because the proof of which I had spoken of has already been in full display, read the response, this goes with the same prove of the whole Glasgow thing.

25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

:)))) look at the birds, my Father feed them all ......

I am sure the birds who fly in the heavens helped paid for your food, the clothing on your back, and internet access via ISP. God approves the way we use our money and how we work hard for it by means of our hands, the sweat of our brow an the our blood. We make money to make a living to provide, etc and we thank the Father for such because he is with us.

22 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does Bible anywhere said how this or that religion in our century is product of satan ..... or of god

Friend, I made this response to your response. You yourself stated the following: Because money is Satan product as Bible indicates.

 

My response was simply and clear: I don't believe the Bible says an y where that money is a pro duct of Satan and or make an  indication to such (unless you can point this specific verse out, quote it, let's have it then), let us just get that out of the way.

As for the Christendom religion, the Bible speaks of the church of which Jesus is said to be the cornerstone of, the foundation, I explained this to Witness weeks ago in regards to his post coming from Pearl of which he posted here, the only religions and or faiths that are product of Satan are those who teach nothing in regards to the First Church and or of the Early Christians, thus being accursed.

The teaching we go to an Afterlife, the teaching that God suddenly advocates for Molech worshipers, the teaching that Jesus is God, the teaching that we should intergrate the traditions of men into the church, the teachings of accepting the uninspired, the list goes on. You tell me what is is accursed and what is not, but the truth of the matter is, the Bible makes it clear and very explicit on those who adhere to the teachings and those who do not adhere to the teachings, but rather, the accursed teachings.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Again, friend, you really have to wise up on this type of information, let alone the scriptures in the Bible itself, the claim to say that money is a product of Satan irks me, at the same time to speak of such, yet founded to be using money yourself, is kind of hypocritical.

sadly, WE ALL are hypocritical... in this way or another, more or less. :))

[Srecko Sostar]

8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Friend, I made this response to your response. You yourself stated the following: Because money is Satan product as Bible indicates.

conclusion was derived from verse that claim how "satan is god of this world". If so, money is his invention. Adam and Eve have not money in their world to which JHVH was god. By that JHVH not produce money.... but fruits from a tree. :)) 

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So you are JW who spiritually is not part of this world? That is nice.

I will provide links from Australian government site about Australian Branch. Only to illustrate, the same is around the world. Watchtower have Identity number and in this case it is Charity ABN 42002861225 (ABN is Australian Business Number), and they have additional business name - "Watchtower Travel".  Travel Company? :)))))

 https://www.acnc.gov.au/RN52B75Q?ID=91956EB4-F967-4486-8D20-89B6E9A28BCC&noleft=1

http://www.abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/42002861225

https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/bySearchId.jspx?searchId=69158541&searchIdType=BUSN&_adf.ctrl-state=ptvq0dfmh_4

No, but I am very well aware of their Christology an the only reason I speak of them is because there is many misconceptions and things said of them that can and will be addressed. Example would be the whole Afterlife thing when the Bible indicates who is among the first fruits, with Jesus being the first, another example is regarding the New Covenant itself. And surely if someone says JW have guns and poisons under their churches, that has to be called out, the same goes for mutual funds and trusts. The focus is to refute falsehood, and nothing but that, as well as what is accursed, and I believe I explain to you of what community I originate from.

Other than that I have been studying the Abrahamic Religions and Islam for over a decade now, but the focus is more on Christianity, since I was brought up as a Christian to begin with. So it is no surprise if someone is making claims that do not bear any fruit, a response by means of fact, information and sources will be made, mainly when it comes to those who do not understand of how a Christian minority that is Restrationist operate - for it is no surprise to any man of who those not following the mainstream Christendom operates.

What you have posted is a charitable status of the Watchtower, their history as of said status, number, members involved as well as a list of annual reports.

Again I ask you, how are they part of this world? I have already made mention before of tax returns in Charitable trust and how the information has been twisted by those who speak of conspiracy. Plus you only brought up information solely held in the Australia location, surely you'd actually pinpoint an actual status of said group that is not a charitable status and or non-profit.

I do admire the attempt though, but again, it sheds no resolve to the foundation of which you attempt to express.

 

NOTE: I also like to point out that all persons and or groups in that Australian Registry is refereed to as Business Name with a Code to represent and ID such ones. It helps the Aussies to keep track of persons, institutions, groups and organizations in an orderly and organized fashion, perhaps even numerically so it is easier to bring up in some cases.

55 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

sadly, WE ALL are hypocritical... in this way or another, more or less. :))

So do birds really pay for your internet connection?As well as the place of your dwelling? I stated hypocritical because it has been said by you that money is a product of Satan, which is utterly false. I countered the response by saying money is used to provide and care, thus being used in a light accepted to God, but there are those who actually use the money for unrighteous things, such ones are lovers of money and thus making money master over them than God, what did you not get in the accurate response made to a claim you made?

Therefore, I can say nowhere in the Bible does it say that Money is a product of Satan, this is why I advise you to really read on the issue of money and it's usage in the Bible, otherwise you will confuse yourself in your own response.

All of us have some form of income, this includes you, me and everyone on this forum, some either independent or dependent on guardians, parents and or relatives. Money is used to support and care and unlike lovers of money, we do not do wild things to receive it, for we are hard workers of it, God knows of those who work to receive by means of their hands. Any man who commits to lawless acts in regard to money it is certain these people who partake in unrighteous riches will be dealt with.

But I do not see anywhere also in the bible that free will offering in order to further the Great Commission is consider a lawless act.

49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

conclusion was derived from verse that claim how "satan is god of this world". If so, money is his invention. Adam and Eve have not money in their world to which JHVH was god. By that JHVH not produce money.... but fruits from a tree. :)) 

But you yourself have stated money is a product of Satan and that the bible indicates as such, need I quote you again? You also missed the point of God's approval of how we use said currency, I provided several verses already.

 

So who is telling the truth, me who says the Bible makes no indication that money is the product of Satan or you, who says the Bible indicates money is a product of Satan?

Clearly I have provided enough bible verses especially the 2 primarily ones that further proves my point.

Yes, Satan is the god of this world, this I green with you on this elementary fact, but to say Satan invented money is hypocritical, because [1] you never provided a single verse of which money is a product of Satan and [2] You ignore the fact that all men, even Jesus and his followers in that day and age had a use of currency, even before that one of the primary use of currency were pieces of gold and silver.

Of course Adam and Eve didn't have money, they were parents first parents, our first human mother and father. They did practice some form of bartering though and onward currency became a thing.

I suggest you learn more about it because it would seem you are attempting to confuse things and or not understanding well of what is being said: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2016/03/07/what-did-they-use-for-money-in-bible-times/

Also it is best to look at the currency of the Jews, a currency of which is still used even to this day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekel

 

FACT: Jesus taught that a legitimate use of money is to support the Lord's work (The Great Commission) through the religious institutions the Lord established, the early Church/Christians (Matthew 23:23; Mark 12:41-44; Luke 8:1-3).

[Srecko Sostar]

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So who is telling the truth, me who says the Bible makes no indication that money is the product of Satan or you, who says the Bible indicates money is a product of Satan?

we both! :)))

please help me to see, by your thoughts, is there something in this World that IS devil product? proved by Bible, because this is point you like to highlight - Bible verses. Thanks.

[Srecko Sostar]

17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

FACT: Jesus taught that a legitimate use of money is to support the Lord's work (The Great Commission) through the religious institutions the Lord established, the early Church/Christians (Matthew 23:23; Mark 12:41-44; Luke 8:1-3).

I do not see here that Jesus support economic and money system of Jew, Greek or Roman people. He was not willing to support that. This verse "proving" my view and understanding on Jesus act: -------------- “But so that we may not offend them, go to the sea, cast a hook, and take the first fish you catch. When you open its mouth, you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for you” and Me.

Jesus was not voluntary or by obligation participate in paying temple tax. His reason for pay tax money was in some sort of strange reason, "to not offend them". Does he payed tax more then this one time mentioned in this verse? Do not know. But this verse telling something different in connection to your statement:  "Jesus taught that a legitimate use of money is to support the Lord's work (The Great Commission) through the religious institutions the Lord established,the early Church/Christians."

In this verse  he did contrary, he support Jew system and not "Lord's work". And as such, religious institutions aka Jew religion (or some other religious institution today), have to be, was been rejected by him and his followers, at the end of a day (or to the end of century in Romans's  siege and destruction of Jerusalem).

1.What is legitimate use of money? (by capitalist view, by socialist view, by particular religious institution view......?)

2.And would you, as beneficiary, accept money, as donation or in other forms, without knowledge and proves how donor/donors made their multiplication of money in legitimate using, way?     (Do you have interest to know is such money made in way that no one was damaged?)

How many people working for one dollar per day or less, for few cents, in one part of a world??? And in different part of the world  other people buy cheap products because of such system? And what is LEGITIMATE in that? Only laws that was product of injustice.

AND ALL THIS WAS IN DOMAIN OF WHO OWNS THE MONEY :)))))))

I do not care, at the end, is that devil's money or people's money. It is injustice! This is all about injustice, greedy, lies, manipulation ...