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Jesus.defender

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PLEASE, my friends, lets address ONE passage per message/reply.

 

Some, but not ALL passages that show that Jesus is God are :

 

1) John 20:27-28 "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." ( this also shows that Jesus was raised BODILY ) "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

2) John 1:1 "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος  ",  "En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos", "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word"

3) Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "
 

PLEASE do not reply with other verses that you think support your view. Address these 3 please.

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Monotheism: Is it not the exclusive exaltation of the one source of all power, authority, and creativity? The author who penned John 1:1c appears to have believed in this definition. Why would

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On 7/9/2018 at 8:08 PM, Jesus.defender said:

PLEASE, my friends, lets address ONE passage per message/reply.

 

Some, but not ALL passages that show that Jesus is God are :

 

1) John 20:27-28 "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." ( this also shows that Jesus was raised BODILY ) "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

2) John 1:1 "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος  ",  "En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos", "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word"

3) Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "
 

PLEASE do not reply with other verses that you think support your view. Address these 3 please.

 

 

Monotheism: Is it not the exclusive exaltation of the one source of all power, authority, and creativity?

The author who penned John 1:1c appears to have believed in this definition. Why wouldn't he? He was a Hebrew, and a Jew, and it is quite likely he was raised with the familiar words, "Hear O'Israel, yhwh our God is one Jehovah" ["Shma Yisra'el yhwh Eloheynu yhwh Echad" - Deuteronomy 6:4-5; also Mark 12:29-30; confirmed by the author of John in John 17:3].

So what could he have possibly been stating in John 1:1, when he renders that the logos [Jesus] was not only with God [ho theos], but that he [Jesus] was, "a god" [theos without the definite article]?


We know that the occurrence of theos in 1:1c by construct highlights the "quality" of the logos, that he was "divine", "godlike", or literally, "a god". But does this harmonize with the rest of the bible?


An individual named D.S. Russell who wrote "The Method and Message of Jewish Apocalyptic" included a comment on Hebrew monotheism, which I like, so I'll offer it here: "There is ample evidence to show that conception of monotheism was held in conjunction with a belief in a spiritual world peopled with supernatural and superhuman beings who, in some ways, shared the nature, though not the being, of God"

But is that true when examining the biblical texts?
Indeed, for at times the Bible employs the term "a god" [elohim in Hebrew, theos in Greek, both lacking the definite article, ha in Hebrew, ho in the koine Greek] to refer to those of extreme authority or power in relations to others.

Psalm 8:5 reads: "You also proceeded to make him [man] a little less than godlike ones [Hebrew, ´elo·him']," that is, angels. So angels, the malak, also called "the sons of the true God" in Genesis 6:2, and again in Job 1:6, Job 2:1, and Job 38:7, are called gods in Psalm 8:5.

In Exodus 4:15-16, Moses is told that Aaron would be to him for a mouth, while he would be "a god" (elohim) to Aaron [Vediber-hu lecha el-ha'am vehayah hu yihyeh-lecha lefeh ve'atah tihyeh-lo ‘elohim]. So Moshe was called by the title elohim, a god, as respects his position to Aaron as well as Pharaoh.

Directly in the book of subject here, in John Chapter 10, Jesus' defense against false charges that he claimed to be God [Yhwh], he noted that "the Law uses the word gods of those to whom the word of God was addressed," that is, human judges - [John 10:34, 35, JB; Psalm 82:1-6].

So human judges, are called gods, Moshe is called a god, and the sons of God [the malak, angels/messengers], are also called gods. Even Satan is called "the god of this system of things" at 2 Corinthians 4:4 by Paul, which makes sense, as ha'satan is identified among the sons of God in the above references in Job, the malak, those who were called "gods" in a specific indefinite construct [e.g., general class of].

According to the biblical texts, Jesus' resurrection placed him in a position far higher than angels, imperfect men, or Satan. Since these are referred to as "gods," mighty ones, surely Jesus can be and is "a god."

The biblical texts reserve the use of the title "Almighty God" [el shaddai] exclusively for Jehovah and no other. To call Jehovah by the title "Almighty" would have little significance unless there existed others who were also called gods but who occupied a lesser or inferior position.

And so the author of John also, calls the logos, the Christ, a god, or being of divine nature, though he never refers to him as "ho theos", the God, the one and only. He could have easily done so in John 1:1c - but he didn't.

"I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God." (John 20:17) Even though Jesus was already resurrected as a mighty spirit, Jehovah was still his God. And Jesus continued to refer to Him as such even in the last book of the Bible, after he was glorified. - [Revelation 1:5, 6; 3:2, 12].

At John 20:31, the Bible further clarifies the matter by stating: "These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God," not that he was Almighty God. And it meant "Son" in a literal way, as with a natural father and son, not as some mysterious part of a Trinity Godhead where it certainly cannot be said, "Hear O'Israel, Yhwh our God is one Yhwh" ["Shma Yisra'el yhwh Eloheynu yhwh Echad"].

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On 7/9/2018 at 8:08 PM, Jesus.defender said:

PLEASE, my friends, lets address ONE passage per message/reply.

 

Some, but not ALL passages that show that Jesus is God are :

 

1) John 20:27-28 "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." ( this also shows that Jesus was raised BODILY ) "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

2) John 1:1 "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος  ",  "En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos", "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word"

3) Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "
 

PLEASE do not reply with other verses that you think support your view. Address these 3 please.

 

1 Corinthians 15: 27 For God “subjected all things under his (Christ's) feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does NOT include the One (JEHOVAH) who subjected all things to him (CHRIST). 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him (CHRIST), then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One (JEHOVAH) who subjected all things to him (CHRIST), that God (JEHOVAH) may be all things to everyone."

 

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What Does Hebrews 1:8 have reference to?

By Christ's entire life course of integrity to God, including his sacrifice, he accomplished the “one act of justification” that proved him qualified to serve as God’s anointed King-Priest in heaven. (Romans 5:17, 18) By his resurrection from the dead to life as a heavenly Son of God, he was “declared righteous in spirit.” (1Timothy 3:16) Heavenly creatures proclaimed him “worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing,” as one who was both lionlike in behalf of justice and judgment and also lamblike in giving himself as a sacrifice for the saving of others. (Revelation 5:5-13) He had accomplished his primary purpose of sanctifying his Father’s name. (Matthew 6:9; 22:36-38) This he did, not just by using that name, but by revealing the Person it represents, displaying his Father’s splendid qualities—his love, wisdom, justice, and power—enabling persons to know or experience what his Father's name stands for. (Matthew 11:27; John 1:14, 18; 17:6-12) And above all, he did it by upholding Jehovah’s universal sovereignty, showing that his own Kingdom government would be based solidly on that Supreme Source of authority. Therefore it could be said of him: “God is your throne forever.” Hebrews 1:8.

Jehovah God always had immortality, that is the inability to die (deathless). Jesus was gifted (by Jehovah God) with immortality when he was raised from the dead.

So your reasoning is a bit skewed

 

Consider the source of the power and authority bestowed upon Jesus. With reference to the Son, the Bible states: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness.” (Hebrews 1:8, 9) Jesus’ throne, that is, his office or authority, has its source in Jehovah. God is the Originator and Giver of this throne. No problems will be too grave for Jesus to resolve.

 

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4 hours ago, sami said:

 

1 Corinthians 15: 27 For God “subjected all things under his (Christ's) feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does NOT include the One (JEHOVAH) who subjected all things to him (CHRIST). 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him (CHRIST), then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One (JEHOVAH) who subjected all things to him (CHRIST), that God (JEHOVAH) may be all things to everyone."

 

No.

 

Please address the passages i mentioned.

 

The passages we are dealing with in this post are:

 

John 20:27-28 "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." ( this also shows that Jesus was raised BODILY ) "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

John 1:1 "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος  ",  "En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos", "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word"

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "

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4 hours ago, sami said:

What Does Hebrews 1:8 have reference to?

By Christ's entire life course of integrity to God, including his sacrifice, he accomplished the “one act of justification” that proved him qualified to serve as God’s anointed King-Priest in heaven. (Romans 5:17, 18) By his resurrection from the dead to life as a heavenly Son of God, he was “declared righteous in spirit.” (1Timothy 3:16) Heavenly creatures proclaimed him “worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing,” as one who was both lionlike in behalf of justice and judgment and also lamblike in giving himself as a sacrifice for the saving of others. (Revelation 5:5-13) He had accomplished his primary purpose of sanctifying his Father’s name. (Matthew 6:9; 22:36-38) This he did, not just by using that name, but by revealing the Person it represents, displaying his Father’s splendid qualities—his love, wisdom, justice, and power—enabling persons to know or experience what his Father's name stands for. (Matthew 11:27; John 1:14, 18; 17:6-12) And above all, he did it by upholding Jehovah’s universal sovereignty, showing that his own Kingdom government would be based solidly on that Supreme Source of authority. Therefore it could be said of him: “God is your throne forever.” Hebrews 1:8.

Jehovah God always had immortality, that is the inability to die (deathless). Jesus was gifted (by Jehovah God) with immortality when he was raised from the dead.

So your reasoning is a bit skewed

 

Consider the source of the power and authority bestowed upon Jesus. With reference to the Son, the Bible states: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness.” (Hebrews 1:8, 9) Jesus’ throne, that is, his office or authority, has its source in Jehovah. God is the Originator and Giver of this throne. No problems will be too grave for Jesus to resolve.

 

AT LAST!

 

Now you have addressed a passage i quoted. Thank you.

 

Unfortunately, you did not think for yourself. You just cut and pasted what the watchtower tells you to say.

 

All you have done is given an interpretation which is biased and imbued with the false presupposition that Jesus is not God.

 

Please, my friend tell me what does "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: " mean?

 

It means clearly that God the father is addressing the Son as God.

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4 hours ago, sami said:

John 20:27,28

Jesus was raised up from the dead a "a being of divine nature"  "a god"  theos  NOT "ho theos" (THE GOD)

That is your opinion and the text does NOT say that.

You did NOT address the verses.

If Jesus was just raised "spiritually", Jesus would NOT say "for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have.". The resurrected Jesus DID have a body of flesh and bones.

Also, the text is clear that Thomas called Jesus His God.

Now, the watchtower i believe ( and i could be wrong ) say that that was an expression of surprise much like we would use today.

However, this is easily refuted. 

Jesus was a Jew.

Calling Jesus God would be considered blasphemy to the jews.

What is the penalty for blasphemy? death on the spot.

So, did Jesus reach for stones to kill him?

What did Jesus say? "You blasphemed, thomas?

No, He blessed him for realizing the truth!

 

My friend, i honestly do thank you for staying with the verses i gave ( apart from 1 post so far ). It makes things much easier to discuss.

If two people differ on something, there should be no reason why they cannot have a friendly, polite, loving conversation.

 

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5 hours ago, sami said:

 

 

Monotheism: Is it not the exclusive exaltation of the one source of all power, authority, and creativity?

The author who penned John 1:1c appears to have believed in this definition. Why wouldn't he? He was a Hebrew, and a Jew, and it is quite likely he was raised with the familiar words, "Hear O'Israel, yhwh our God is one Jehovah" ["Shma Yisra'el yhwh Eloheynu yhwh Echad" - Deuteronomy 6:4-5; also Mark 12:29-30; confirmed by the author of John in John 17:3].

So what could he have possibly been stating in John 1:1, when he renders that the logos [Jesus] was not only with God [ho theos], but that he [Jesus] was, "a god" [theos without the definite article]?


We know that the occurrence of theos in 1:1c by construct highlights the "quality" of the logos, that he was "divine", "godlike", or literally, "a god". But does this harmonize with the rest of the bible?


An individual named D.S. Russell who wrote "The Method and Message of Jewish Apocalyptic" included a comment on Hebrew monotheism, which I like, so I'll offer it here: "There is ample evidence to show that conception of monotheism was held in conjunction with a belief in a spiritual world peopled with supernatural and superhuman beings who, in some ways, shared the nature, though not the being, of God"

But is that true when examining the biblical texts?
Indeed, for at times the Bible employs the term "a god" [elohim in Hebrew, theos in Greek, both lacking the definite article, ha in Hebrew, ho in the koine Greek] to refer to those of extreme authority or power in relations to others.

Psalm 8:5 reads: "You also proceeded to make him [man] a little less than godlike ones [Hebrew, ´elo·him']," that is, angels. So angels, the malak, also called "the sons of the true God" in Genesis 6:2, and again in Job 1:6, Job 2:1, and Job 38:7, are called gods in Psalm 8:5.

In Exodus 4:15-16, Moses is told that Aaron would be to him for a mouth, while he would be "a god" (elohim) to Aaron [Vediber-hu lecha el-ha'am vehayah hu yihyeh-lecha lefeh ve'atah tihyeh-lo ‘elohim]. So Moshe was called by the title elohim, a god, as respects his position to Aaron as well as Pharaoh.

Directly in the book of subject here, in John Chapter 10, Jesus' defense against false charges that he claimed to be God [Yhwh], he noted that "the Law uses the word gods of those to whom the word of God was addressed," that is, human judges - [John 10:34, 35, JB; Psalm 82:1-6].

So human judges, are called gods, Moshe is called a god, and the sons of God [the malak, angels/messengers], are also called gods. Even Satan is called "the god of this system of things" at 2 Corinthians 4:4 by Paul, which makes sense, as ha'satan is identified among the sons of God in the above references in Job, the malak, those who were called "gods" in a specific indefinite construct [e.g., general class of].

According to the biblical texts, Jesus' resurrection placed him in a position far higher than angels, imperfect men, or Satan. Since these are referred to as "gods," mighty ones, surely Jesus can be and is "a god."

The biblical texts reserve the use of the title "Almighty God" [el shaddai] exclusively for Jehovah and no other. To call Jehovah by the title "Almighty" would have little significance unless there existed others who were also called gods but who occupied a lesser or inferior position.

And so the author of John also, calls the logos, the Christ, a god, or being of divine nature, though he never refers to him as "ho theos", the God, the one and only. He could have easily done so in John 1:1c - but he didn't.

"I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God." (John 20:17) Even though Jesus was already resurrected as a mighty spirit, Jehovah was still his God. And Jesus continued to refer to Him as such even in the last book of the Bible, after he was glorified. - [Revelation 1:5, 6; 3:2, 12].

At John 20:31, the Bible further clarifies the matter by stating: "These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God," not that he was Almighty God. And it meant "Son" in a literal way, as with a natural father and son, not as some mysterious part of a Trinity Godhead where it certainly cannot be said, "Hear O'Israel, Yhwh our God is one Yhwh" ["Shma Yisra'el yhwh Eloheynu yhwh Echad"].

No, No, No. Come on, my friend, address the verses i gave.

 

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23 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

Probably most of us would have exclaimed similarly if in Thomas's position, but maybe not just for the reason you have cited , more in the spirit of 1Cor.13:4! John's account would not present contradictory material when he stated the purpose of his writing at John 20:31.

23 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

and God was the Word

Same argument as that which applies to Acts 28:6

23 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Jesus would NOT say "for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have.". The resurrected Jesus DID have a body of flesh and bones.

A curious conclusion drawn here, but at odds with Hebrews 13:2.

23 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "

Presumably Heb 1:7 which quotes from Ps.45:6. This Psalm is extolling the virtues of a king ruling with the favour of God, thus "God hath blessed thee forever" v 2.

The rather clumsy rendition of Ps.45:6 has been discussed at length for decades, not least due to the difficulties in addressing a king ruling with God's approval as God Himself. The matter is simply resolved when comparing scriptural passages relating to the throne of God-appointed kingship. Solomon for example, was said to be seated on  "Jehovah's throne"  1Chr.29:23. With Jehovah designated as the "King of Eternity" at Revelation 15:3, His throne alone certainly lasts for ever and ever. Gods sovereignty then provides authorisation for any ruler representing this sovereignty and is the only foundation for successful rule of any duration, such duration in the hands of Solomon being only temporary, but nevertheless successful when based firmly on the throne of Jehovah.

Let your argument be with the scholars who have suggested  suitable renditions of the verse in indicating that the success of the king in question is due to his throne being supported by God:

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.--This is the rendering of the LXX., Vulg., and of the versions generally. But whether they supposed the words to be addressed to the Divine Being, or that the theocratic king is thus styled, is uncertain. The Christian use of the verse as applied to the Messiah (Hebrews 1:8, Note, New Testament Commentary) does not help us to explain how the monarch, who is the poet's theme here, could be addressed as God. The use of Elohim in Psalm 82:6; Psalm 97:7, Exodus 22:28, hardly offers a satisfactory parallel, and even 1Samuel 28:13 (where we should render, "I saw a god, &c) hardly prepares us to find such an emphatic ascription to an earthly king, especially in an Elohistic psalm. Two alternative renderings present themselves--(1) Thy throne of God is for ever . . . i.e., thy divine throne. (Comp. Psalm 31:2, "thy refuge of strength.") (2) Thy throne is of God for ever, which is grammatically preferable, and with which may be compared 1Chronicles 29:23, "the throne of the Lord." Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

 “The LXX. admits of two renderings: [ho the·osʹ] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (Thy throne, O God, . . . therefore, O God, Thy God . . . ) or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case (God is Thy throne, or Thy throne is God . . . ), and in apposition to [ho the·osʹ sou] in the second case (Therefore God, even Thy God . . . ). . . . It is scarcely possible that [’Elo·himʹ] in the original can be addressed to the king. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho the·osʹ] is a vocative in the LXX. Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.’”—The Epistle to the Hebrews (London, 1889), pp. 25, 26. B.F.Westcott.

The NWT has rendered these verses accordingly:

  • "God is your throne forever and ever" Ps 45:6
  • "But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever," Heb 1:8

Some other translators appear to agree as far as the Psalm is concerned:

Ps 45:6:

Good News Translation
"The kingdom that God has given you will last forever and ever."

JPS Tanakh 1917
"Thy throne given of God is for ever and ever;"

Interestingly, how do you harmonise your view with 1Cor.15:28?

 


 

 

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11 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

AT LAST!

 

Now you have addressed a passage i quoted. Thank you.

 

Unfortunately, you did not think for yourself. You just cut and pasted what the watchtower tells you to say.

 

All you have done is given an interpretation which is biased and imbued with the false presupposition that Jesus is not God.

 

Please, my friend tell me what does "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: " mean?

 

It means clearly that God the father is addressing the Son as God.

 

Hebrews 1:1-9  "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son,"(C)


corresponding texts:    Matthew 17:5 " While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my (J) Son(C), the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.

 

”whom he appointed heir of all things,  

corresponding texts: Psalms 2:8  "Ask of me,(J) and I will give nations as your  inheritance And the ends of the earth as your (C) possession".

 

"and through whom he made the systems of things".

corresponding texts: Colossians 1:15,16  "He is the image of the invisible God (J), the firstborn of all creation" because by means of him (C) all other (than himself) things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.

 

3 "He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being",

corresponding texts:John 1:14 So the Word (C) became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son(C) from a father;(J) and he was full of divine favor and truth.

John 17:5 So now, Father (J), glorify me(C) at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

 

"and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins,"

corresponding texts: Hebrews 9:26 " Otherwise, he(C) would have to suffer often from the founding of the world. But now he(C) has manifested himself once for all time at the conclusion of the systems of things to do away with sin through the sacrifice of himself.(C)

 

"he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high".

corresponding texts: Psalm 110:1 "Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my(J) right hand Until I place your(C) enemies as a stool for your feet.”

Acts 2:32, 33 "God (J) resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he(C) was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father(J), he has poured out what you see and hear."Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand."


So he has become better than the angels

corresponding texts: Ephesians 1:20, 21 which he (J) exercised toward Christ when he (J) raised him (C) up from the dead and seated him (C) at his (J) right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.
1 Peter 3:22 He (C) is at God’s (J) right hand, for he (C) went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him (C).


"to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs."

corresponding text: Philippians 2:9, 10 "For this very reason, God (J) exalted him (C) to a superior position and kindly gave him (C) the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground"


(HOW COULD "HO THEOS" (ALMIGHTY GOD) BE RAISED TO A HIGHER POSITION THAN HE ALREADY HOLDS?)

 

6. For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”?

corresponding text:Psalms 2:7 Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: (C))“You are my son; Today I (J)) have become your father.

 

And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”?

corresponding text:  Mark 1:11 And a voice came out of the heavens: “You (C) are my Son, the beloved; I (J) have approved you.”
Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my (J) Son, (C) the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.”
2 Peter 1:17 For he (C) received from God the Father (J) honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him (C) by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I (J) myself have approved.”

 

6 "But when he again brings his Firstborn"

corresponding text: John 1:14 "So the Word (C) became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his (C) glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son (C) from a father(Jehovah); and he (C) was full of divine favor and truth".
Romans 8:29 "because those whom he (J) gave his first recognition he (J) also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son,(C) so that he(C) might be the firstborn among many brothers".
Colossians 1:15 "He (C) is the image of the invisible God, (J) the firstborn of all creation;"

"into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.” 7 Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire"


corresponding text: Psalm 91:11 For he (J) will give his angels a command concerning you,(C) To guard you in all your ways.
Luke 22:43 Then an angel from heaven appeared to him (C) and strengthened him.

8 "But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

corresponding texts:  Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me (Christ) in heaven and on the earth.
Revelation 3:21 To the one who conquers I (C) will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I (C) conquered and sat down with my Father (J) on his throne.

 

It is quite clear that throughout the entire context from Hebrews 1:1, Christ is seen to be a lesser god than his Father. Therefore, the use of “theos” here should be translated “god.”

The context must determine whether Christ is being referred to as the Supreme Being or a man with great authority, so reading it carefully is a must. However, in this case one need not read very far to find that Christ, called “god,” HIMSELF HAS a “God.”  The very next verse, Hebrews 1:9, makes this crystal clear, verse 9 states:“therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions.”  Therefore, Christ cannot be the supreme God, because the supreme God does not have a God.  Furthermore, Christ’s God “set” him above others and “anointed” him.  This makes it abundantly clear that the use of theos here in Hebrews is not referring to Christ being the supreme God, but rather a man with great authority under another God. 

Andrews Norton writes:
Here the context proves that the word “God” does not denote the Supreme Being, but is used in an inferior sense.  This is admitted by some of the most respectable Trinitarian critics.  Thus, the Rev. Dr. Mayer remarks: “Here the Son is addressed by the title God: but the context shows that it is an official title which designates him as a king: he has a kingdom, a throne and a scepter; and in verse 9 he is compared with other kings, who are called his fellows; but God can have no fellows.  As the Son, therefore, he is classed with the kings of the earth, and his superiority over them consists in this, that he is anointed with the oil of gladness above them; inasmuch as their thrones are temporary, but his shall be everlasting.”


The verse is a direct quotation of Psalm 45:6,7. The Jews read this verse for centuries and, knowing the flexibility of the word “God,” never concluded that the Messiah would somehow be part of a Triune God.


Psalm 45:6, 7 "God is your throne forever and ever; The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness.  7 You loved righteousness, and you hated wickedness. That is why God, YOUR God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions."


To be noted,  the verse in the Greek text can also be translated as, “Thy throne is God.”  However, because the verse is a reference from the Old Testament, and because the texts indicate and we believe that Jehovah God is the Father, the supreme deity of the universe, is calling His Christ a “god” (i.e., one with divine authority), there is no need to translate the verse other than, “Thy throne, O god, is forever.”


*Berean Study Bible
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God,(J) Your (C) God, has placed You above Your companions by anointing You with the oil of joy.”

*Contemporary English Version
You loved justice and hated evil, and so I, (J) your (C) God, have chosen you. I appointed you and made you happier than any of your friends."


*NET Bible
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. So God, your God, has anointed you over your companions with the oil of rejoicing."


*GOD'S WORD® Translation
You have loved what is right and hated what is wrong. That is why God, your God, anointed you, rather than your companions, with the oil of joy."

New American Standard 1977
“THOU HAST LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, THY GOD, HATH ANOINTED THEE WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE THY COMPANIONS.”

American King James Version
You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

World English Bible
You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows."

**thy God.
Psalm 89:26 He (Christ) shall cry to me(J), You (J) are my  father  my  God, and the rock of my (C) salvation.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I (C) have not yet ascended to the Father (J); but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my (C)Father  and your Father, to my (C) God and your God.’”…

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God (J) and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is forever worthy of praise, knows that I am not lying

Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms".

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

**One other point is that in Isaiah 9:6 a prophecy regarding Mashiach and the titles applied to him. In this prophecy he is referred to as mighty god  ʼEl Gibbohrʹ  NOT ʼEl Shaddaiʹ which is [God Almighty or Almighty God], which is applied to Jehovah God at Genesis 17:1.


The Bible must be in harmony from Genesis through Revelation, you cannot take one text and say this is what the Bible teaches when there are fifty texts to contradict it. Is it in harmony with the rest of scripture, that is the question.

To address another misconception regarding Jesus Christ...the apostle Peter tells us "...He (Christ) was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. ...." What is this text saying? If Jesus is also Jehovah, who resurrected him? How could he then glorify himself and seat himself along side himself with the  glory he had alongside himself before?  

The apostle John tells us  "I (Christ) have glorified you (Jehovah) on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was".John 17:4,5


1 Corinthians 15:45 "So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."


Jesus Christ was not raised in the flesh just as Peter informs us....taking his flesh back would nullify the sacrifice he made.  Paul says that "...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of the heavens; neither does corruption inherit incorruption."

After his resurrection, Jesus materialized bodies for himself just as the angels did in Noah's time when they began to cohabit with the daughters of mankind. Those wicked angels dematerialized and went back to the heavens but their offspring (Nephilim) were destroyed in the flood.


There were also  materialized angels sent out as messengers to mankind.


Why do you think Jesus was not recgnized by his closest associates when they were up close and personal with him? Some recognized him by his voice and others by things he said but not through his appearance.

THE TRINITY DOCTRINE IS OF PAGAN ORIGIN

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