Jump to content

JW Insider

1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

JW Insider -
The Librarian -
185
4472

Top Posters


Recommended Posts

Several posts from some recent topics have veered into a discussion of 1975 (yet again). My personal concern about the topic is that, like others have just mentioned, I have also been seeing a lack of honesty about it from both JWs and ex-JWs/non-JWs. We shouldn't be as concerned about what others on the outside say, but perhaps we need to take another look at the accuracy of statements that we make ourselves, in our own defense.

To start, I would say that I agree that no Watchtower article or Watchtower publication ever said that the world was going to end in 1975.

But when we try to convince people today about what was really said back then, what is our purpose in only selectively choosing things that were said and printed in Watchtower publications? Is it possible to be dishonest by what we omit when we defend this topic?

*GA: The upvote is an artefact of this post when it was under another topic. You may wish to remove it from this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to confirm an update. I spoke with one JW, an African American who became one of Jehovah's Witnesses back in 1973, I knew he was JW because of the little pin on his book-bag at a Super Walmart (A day I had the most awkward question being asked of me in a restaurant). After ths discussion, he was talking about all biological stuff, of which I didn't have time for for it didn't peek my interest.

This man stated during 1975 he was speaking about what was posed earlier, the 6,000 years of human existence and or creation since Adam. He also stated that around 1975 some JWs assumed that the end was actually coming, the result of some JWs spreading things that was never actually said, some JWs ended up buying homes and cars, for some odd reason while the other half, who took into account what was said knew that Judgement Day was near but it was not in 1975 nor was it ever said to be, mind you, the JW said they were still preaching and have not ceased such. He went on to say that because the ones who didn't hear correctly, end up leaving the faith for their own error, when several, if not many, mentioned exactly what took place in 1975, hence the previous comment.

Therefore, I do not see why some people make claim that JWs said the end would come in 1975 when nothing of the sort was ever mentioned, the irony is now that this information is public, no matter how hard opponents of the faith try to flag, get people's information and videos removed from the internet so this remains hidden.

Moreover, as for the Restaurant thing, this is off-topic. A random Hippie guy said to me that he appreciates my people and said that Aretha Franklin, and I was dumbfounded and confused, then I realized, I was the only person, that one guy, sitting in an all Korean restaurant. Although I do not take offense, that was a bit odd and weird, to some, they would scream racism for being singled out, but I care not because all I cared about was waiting for my order so I can go home. I like classic music very much, but I do not idolize any singers, even Ms. Franklin, hence what going on int hat funeral.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anna:

Oh yeah ... I had forgotten about THOSE crazy years ... because I never believed any of that .... but I did get caught, BIG TIME, in the "1975" fiasco, even though during the run-up to 1975 I openly ridiculed it ... right there at the end, I reasoned, in the fall of 1974

"How could I be right, and everybody else ... people I respected, loved  and cared about .... everybody ... be WRONG? ( About the end coming in 1975)."

It did not seem probable to me that EVERYBODY (In the Truth) was wrong so I quit the best job I ever had, in Zaire, the Congo, to be back home with my Mom and Dad in Virginia, when "the END came".

To this day, Brothers and Sisters "swear" that never happened .....  but in the  Watchtower, March 15, 1980 issue , paragraphs 17 and 18 ONE TIME admitted that they did say that ... in the book "Life Everlasting - In Freedom of the Sons of God".

I did not find out about that "soft admission of culpability" until Mr. Google and I became good friends, many, many years later ... but long before that I learned to trust my own instincts over that of anything the Society said or published.

If they are wrong, only we down here at the bottom have to pay the price for their error.

If they permanently screw up our lives ... they pay no price whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

it did not seem probable to me that EVERYBODY (In the Truth) was wrong so I quit the best job I ever had, in Zaire, the Congo, to be back home with my Mom and Dad in Virginia, when "the END came".

To this day, Brothers and Sisters "swear" that never happened ..

I believe you. I personally know a few who did similar things. There is no doubt about it that 1975 got blown up out of all proportions. That is why those who knew their Bible, and put that as precedent over what anybody else said (including the president of the society at the time) call it trusting your own instincts if you like, didn't get burned. But I understand that it must have been very difficult if the majority saw it differently than you. Moral of the story? Trust the Bible and no man. Lesson learned. We've got to move on.

14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

....... they pay no price whatsoever.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@James Thomas Rook Jr. According to facts the whole 1975 thing (well as to what I have made note of as of late) was of man's existence since Adam and people being told to be vigilant for anything can happen. Not once did anyone say the world is coming to an end, in the case of the Jehovah's Witnesses, it would make them seem foolish to say such, granted the preaching of the gospel has never ceased prior to, during 1975 at all, and there are several who say this, while the majority is being flagged by former members of the faith. Another factor is there are those who are aware of some JWs, who had since left the faith, took it upon themselves to commit their own actions, assuming the end of the world would come, which is foolish on their part for they heard very clearly.

Because one would have to be very honest with themselves, if the Bible tells you that the preaching of the gospel is to be done, preached to all the nations. In their Christology it is said there will be a time when they would totally cease preaching 100%, and we have not seen any of them happening now, in 1975 or in the past. Granted the gospel has to be preached first and according to them God will soon decide when to cease the gospel preaching, technically being a sign of the work being done, and you wouldn't see a JW in sight, as someone would say, JWs would just vanish without a trace.

If anything, some Jehovah's Witnesses may be bad hearers, or forgetful hearers assume otherwise, JW group B being in the wrong, while JW group A, who heard everything were in the right.

About the book, this is hat Old Man Eli had to say: The book Life Everlasting - In Freedom of the Sons of God, released at a series of district conventions held in 1966, pointed to 1975. Right at the convention, as the brothers examined the contents, the new book triggered much discussion about 1975." - Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom; pg. 104, Declaring the Good News Without Letup (1942-1975)

The book in question mentioned 1975 3 times (I could be wrong, replied on PDF source to see if they match up accordingly)

  • [1] According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E.
  • [2] cited (1975, 6,000 years from man's creation end. 29)
  • Other quotes (not in book/or whatever) “In the years following 1966, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses acted in harmony with the spirit of that counsel [the main point about not being specific about what might happen]. However, other statements were published on this subject, and some were likely more definite than advisable. This was acknowledged in The Watchtower of March 15, 1980 (page 17). But Jehovah’s Witnesses were also cautioned to concentrate mainly on doing Jehovah’s will and not to be swept up by dates and expectations of an early salvation.” (page 104) | "There were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year (1975) was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated." - Watchtower, 1980 March 15, p.17, par. 5

For the claim made by opponents "The Watchtower strongly implied the end would come in 1975." is as false as their other claim that JWs own parts of companies in electronics, lingerie and weapons, of which the same people claim the churches of JWs having weapon bunkers below. Also remnants of that strong video proof still linger about on the internet, thus further making such opponents in greater error, but what to expect from those [some among them] who would attempt to use the current President (The Orange-Haired One) to take down a single faith group?

I too believe the end will come, but no one knows for certain, for the bile says no one knows the day or the hour, not even the sons of the Most High, that being the angels, not even the only-begotten Son, Jesus knows, only God the Father knows (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32, Acts 1:7). In the same sense, it is like a teenager throwing a party while his or her parents are out of the house, but little does he/she knows that the time the parents will return home is unknown, not the best example, but it seems to fit the bill here.

That being said, although the end is indeed near, one should not be roaming about, caught with his pants down as they say when it does happen, by that time it would be too late, mainly when you, prior to the day see less and less preachers out there, be it true or false. It is one thing to be in agreement/disagreement with a faith........ Unless they are mainstream Trinitarian folk..... But one must know what is fact and what is not fact, but on occasion some of us tend to jump to conclusions, even though we, are the same ones who put forth actual fact previously - happens to me sometimes.

As far as I know, even to this day, you still see Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere, in the streets, at the houses, in the parks/schools, perhaps even in the bushes and trees as well, trying to evangelize people and speak of the gospel and a day will come when such places you would not see them at all, and eventually those who are adhering to the message, they too will be gone also, others may be in silence because they know what time it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my own experience, I was born in '57, baptized 10 years later, and had to read the "Life Everlasting" book as one of the two books assigned for baptismal candidates, along with the "Lamp" book questions. I auxiliary pioneered for several months in 1972, and quit school to regular pioneer for 3.5 years from 1973 until leaving for Brooklyn Bethel, where I worked full-time for 4 years, and then part-time, on projects, for another two while going to college in NYC.

I give this portion of my "resume" only because I can speak to the experience of being baptized prior to 1975, and was part of the Bethel build-up from the influx of workers and financial contributions that Bethel received around 1975. I pioneered for several years both before and after 1975.

Your experience may vary, but I can still tell you pretty much what I was thinking just prior to 1975, because I had to clear my plans with my parents, my school, and two circuit overseers, since I quit school while I was still 15 to begin regular pioneering in 1973.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say it was an unfortunate collection of events, that altogether gave the impression that the society was promoting 1975 as the date for Armageddon. There is no doubt that it was insinuated by some prominent speakers at conventions (in America mainly?) and also those who were "living out their last days of this system selling their houses so they could pioneer" were publicly praised, ( also in the KM). It is no different now, those who give their all in full time service are also praised today, however, those who did this a few years before 1975 was no coincidence, and I believe the praise was worded in such a way that it was no coincidence either. There was so much insinuation that went unchecked, that it was no wonder 1975 became a fact, instead of what it was said to be, a maybe. It didn't help that one of the prominent brothers said in reply to "is Armageddon coming in 1975?": "we're not saying, we're not saying" which sounds like: "well yes of course it is, but I don't want to sound presumptuous". And who could help but not get excited by that famous Charles Sinutko talk where the phrase "stay alive till 75" was coined.

All in all I think it has been a good lesson for most: know your Bible, and make sure of all things. And if your (Bible trained) instincts tell you something isn't quite right, then it probably isn't. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Whatever happened to old Charlie, anyway? Did he ever get off KP duty?

Actually I think he's doing really well, if he's still alive. Look him up in JW library, or probably the cd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Jack Ryan
      Jehovah's Witnesses in a 1968 interview _Armageddon and 1975_ London Watchtower rep speaks to BBC.mp4
    • By JW Insider
      Because this post was moved away from its original context, a response to a post about Armstrong's promotion of 1975, I will edit the post below to contain all of @AllenSmith's original material, here. I'm moving his images outside the quote, so that they can be more easiliy seen as relevant to the discussion of H.W.Armstrong, as Allen intended.
       


       
      And, don't forget that, in 1956, Herbert W Armstrong supposedly stole the idea from the February 1, 1955 Watchtower, which put the end of 6,000 years within one year of 1976:
      *** w55 2/1 p. 95 Questions From Readers ***
      In 1953 in preparing the chart that appears in the book “New Heavens and a New Earth” a one-year error was brought to light. By the aid of the New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the difference between the two numbers appearing at Genesis 7:6 and Genesis 7:11 became apparent, especially since there are two different Hebrew words here maintaining a distinct difference. At Genesis 7:6 the number 600 referring to Noah’s age means 600 full years, being what is generally termed a cardinal number. Whereas at Genesis 7:11 the number “600th,” an ordinal number, means 599 full years plus a portion of another year. . . .  Inasmuch as previously our chronology considered Noah as 600 full years old when he entered the ark, instead of the actual 599 years and some months, as we now see, this has meant that the preflood dates must be shrunk by one year, this bringing Adam’s creation for the fall of 4025 B.C. Incidentally, Jesus, who became the second or “last Adam,” was born in the fall of the year around the first of October.—1 Cor. 15:45, NW. It is well to understand that all Bible chronology dates for events prior to 539 B.C. must be figured backward from the Absolute date of 539 B.C. In the sure date of 607 B.C. for the fall of Jerusalem we have an anchor for the chronology establishment of the important year of 1914. By an overwhelming number of physical facts occurring since 1914, this great turning-point year in man’s history, 1914, has been abundantly confirmed. According to Genesis 1:24-31 Adam was created during the last part of the sixth creative-day period of 7,000 years. Almost all independent chronologists assume incorrectly that, as soon as Adam was created, then began Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period of the creative week. Such then figure that from Adam’s creation, now thought to be the fall of 4025 B.C., why, six thousand years of God’s rest day would be ending in the fall of 1976. However, from our present chronology (which is admitted imperfect) at best the fall of the year 1976 would be the end of 6,000 years of human history for mankind, 6,000 years of man’s existence on the earth, not 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period. Why not? Because Adam lived some time after his creation in the latter part of Jehovah’s sixth creative period, before the seventh period, Jehovah’s sabbath, began. . . . The very fact that, as part of Jehovah’s secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah’s present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam’s 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date. Of course, just a decade or so later, the Watchtower began minimizing the amount of time it would have taken for a perfect man to name all the animals if Jehovah brought them to him in a steady stream. The flaw in this reasoning was that angels would surely know that amount of time that Jehovah had kept a secret, so they would be aware of the day and the hour "when 6,000 years of Jehovah's present rest day come to an end."
      There is also evidence that Fred W. Franz, who wrote the article above, in 1955, began recalculating in the early 1970's and wanted to begin publishing October 1974 as the date for the end of the 6,000 years of human history. F.W.Franz, I am told, thought this would have strengthened the 1975 argument. But this was supposedly one of the few times when N.Knorr put his foot down and told him he had caused enough trouble with 1975, and that Knorr thought that this vacillation would actually weaken the faith that people put in the Watchtower.
      You probably already know this, but to your point, many Witnesses had to be counseled not to listen to Armstrong's radio program, especially in the late 1960's and early 1970's when many Witnesses claimed that he sounded exactly like the Watchtower.
    • By Jesus.defender
      ("They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah's Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)
       
    • By The Librarian
      by Fredrick William Franz
      Time In Which We Are Now Interested
      Los Angeles Sports Arena, Feb 5 1975
      I no longer have the version above....
      Although here is a version from Australia:
      Franz Fred - Time In Which We Are Now Interested Australia.mp3

      Agape!
       
       
    • By Aaron Gallegos
      The Governing Body claims to speak for God. They claim that they are spirit directed. Jesus warned us about false prophets making such claims at Matthew 24: 4, 5 & 7:15.
      The Governing Body showed a video on the first day of the 2017 regional convention where they place blame on the rank and file members for believing that 1975 would Mark the end of this system. This is a blatant lie. Here are quotes from their own publications to prove otherwise.
      01.) Life everlasting and freedom of the sons of God p.29,30.
      02.) 1970 July kingdom ministry under announcements. The public talk for the Circuit Assembly that service year is "Who will conquer the world in the 1970's?". Even a lapel card was printed for the members to wear.
      03.) 1968 Aug 15 Watchtower- Study article "Why are you looking  forward to 1975?". Members were told to ignore Jesus warning about no one knowing the day or hour.
      04.) 1968 Awake October 8
      05.) 1969 Awake May 22- Youths were told that they would NEVER GROW OLD in this system and it's useless to go to college because the system would not be here anymore.
      06.) May 1974 Kingdom Ministry- Members that sold their homes to and moved to serve as pioneers were COMMENDED as its the best way to use the rest of the time left in this system.
      What's very upsetting is that the Governing Body placed the blame on the members for believing the end would come in 1975. It was them and not the members that came up with This! They deliberately lie and hide evidence.

  • Forum Statistics

    61,546
    Total Topics
    113,186
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    16,482
    Total Members
    1,592
    Most Online
    Bogdan11
    Newest Member
    Bogdan11
    Joined




  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I think @Arauna explained this part of subject how one part of society that including JW members are not willing to be proactive. And that also contribute to general situation. I agree with many what Arauna described in her comment. And i am also "broken" with so much suffer and bad things that some people and especially children going through.  It is not about "twisting facts". If people are not satisfied with people who taking a lead, who rule, governing over them and their life, because they have double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting. And so on until they find the best people world can offer. JW not want to be "proactive" in this matter. That is their right to have such stand. But than, why to criticize system. System, "worldly", is mirror of people in general. JW system is also mirror of people that living and working and contributing to it as such. In general, JW people making effort to be good, but WT Society also have internal "system" that is corruptible and contribute to JW world, as also to worldly world, to be bad place for some individuals (victims).   
    • You were the one making the statement without any evidence I did not make any statement that they were clean or not, what matters is that the GB refused to give evidence clean or not. Or should we recap what Garry lush mentioned on his statement or what Geffry Jackson said in case 29 thanks to them I see where the GB stands. I'm sure U will come up with some incredible amusing excuse but what it was said has lots of repurcussions to the point that my wife and I can not believe another word that comes from them.
    • There is this question too: can a child rapists be rehabilitated?   Experts in the past put children back in the home with the perpetrator if he was the father.  The latest:  there are experts who say this  cannot be changed.   We know that Jehovah says: "this is what some of you were...". so our oganization must allow them to attend meetings and still protect children.  A tall order. The difference is mercy or condemnation.  I put myself in place of GB and ask:  Must we make tons of rules..... ?  Or educate parents to do a better job at protecting their own children.  We cannot read hearts or intentions of brothers..... most are not child molesters but there may just be one rotten apple amongst a bunch of faithful brothers....... like Judas iscariot among the associates of Jesus. How can one just make the assumption option that they have without a court conviction?
    • Without any further ado, submitted for your inspection the November 16, 2019, 38 minute episode of "Justice With Judge Jeanine" ... If you have been too busy to keep up with what is going on ... this is a VERY good synopsis..         9PM Justice With Judge Jeanine 11_16_19 _ Jeanine Pirro Fox News November 16, 2019.mp4
    • I for one do, understand how society is looking at past allegations with today's laws. Not that society is better off with the laws made to protect, it just gives people a false sense of hope.
    • Jehovah judges perfectly because he understands perfectly.  BUT you are twisting the facts: It is PEOPLE here on the forum who have appointed themselves as judges and definitely are not perfect judges. They judge the past according to the modern day secular laws that are now in place and according to current society habits. I grew up in the 1950s when these things were a taboo to talk about in society.  AFTER  the 1960s, with the sexual revolution, they started to talk about  this subject in the secular press. When I worked for newspapers as a reporter in 1980s many of the first laws were in place in first world countries and court procedures were slowly refined until 2003. The inquiry that was done in Australia into more than 2000 organizations was done to close further legal gaps in the system.......... BUT these laws are not always enforced in many countries where there are laws.  In UK rape gangs have been operating for years with a blind eye by law enforcement.  Child services, both in USA and UK were exposed to be part of child sex rings and reporters and policemen who try to investigate it, are found dead. This is why I often mention the abuses of high society (the rich and powerful) and other levels of society who are known to marry 9 year old girls against their will - these people get different treatment than others.  .... and JWs are judged harshly because they were not vigilant enough and tried to stop it from 1950s by keeping records.  JWs are now retroactively tried in court with sensationalist press, when boy scouts etc just closed down and no court accountability given..... so it creates a false impression that JWs  condone this.  Other "guilty" members of society (some are teenage boys tried as adults) get many years in prison are branded for life and forced to live in villages away from society for the rest of their lives. But exposed child trafficking rings etc rape rings - nothing done.  This is not Jehovahs justice...... and in the end ..... it will be Jehovah and Jesus who will judge every wicked thing done in secret whether the individual pretended to serve him or not.  In the meantime, millions of children's lives are messed up...... and jehovah will judge those with mercy and love.  If anyone here on this forum thinks for a moment that children are currently protected  - they are very naive to this morally rotten world.  Child services in many cases are now private companies and are in it for money.  Sex trafficking of children is more lucrative than drug trafficking...... and much more prevalent than we can even imagine. I disagree with the assumption that we can understand the mind of these children rapists...... they are so Satanistic.... we cannot imagine the lengths these people will go to and how far beyond a conscience they are..... and they are amongst us ..... and sometimes they pretend to be our moral leaders in society. They are judges, political leaders, military, FBI, MI5, etc etc....where they have more power and resources to cover up their activities  ....and the making of money. Internet porn has exploited children and made them more vulnerable...... The new UN curriculum (forced upon all schools in the West) now sexualizes children at a tender age and is preparing the way for LGBTQ.....P.    We are living in last days where any form of morality is becoming something of the past...... Sexual exploitation of children once was a spoken taboo - soon to be openly practiced by anyone who wishes to do so.  Chidren are being married off legally in many countries as we speak.  In Germany a judge threw out a case where a 10 year old was married off.  This now has set a precedent: police will no longer arrest perpetrators who exploit 10 year olds because this is now regarded as marriageable age. Muslim laws are eroding the old western laws. We are going back to the time before jehovah gave laws to the Israelites.  Like the Canaanites we will see openly child exploitation and even child murder is returning.  In Africa- the practice of using child body parts in witchcraft medicine is back in full scale.  Recently I saw a mother crying.  She found her shepard boy still half alive with half his brain removed, his sexual organs etc removed.  If this shocks you..... I hope it did.  This is the reality of the world we are living in now. Satan is rampant and people with no morals are doing what they like.  There is a semblance of law and order but underneath it all morality is falling apart. People here on this forum try to make JWs into monsters.... when the real monsters who are exploiting children are using the worldly system to do this.  The worldly legal system is becoming less and less accountable and favoring the rich and powerful (and certain favoured minorities) to do as they please.  People here do not understand why I talk about the worldly legal system and its double standards..... Well look at the headline above...... JW opposers are gloating because we are being used as a target by this very worldly system which protects other groups.  Yes - we will be judged by the world and Jehovah. The one, often serves injustice - the other is just and really exists..... which one's verdicts will stand forever?   
    • I would ask what if someone from that time period, remembers the allegation you are sighting differently. Something like not child sexual abuse, but assault on a minor. The reason the ARC has become ineffective is that they attempted to shield government run detention centers from being prosecuted for child sexual abuse. The ARC refused to even pick up the allegation until the media forced them to. How can such accusations be verified. By word of mouth or by evidence that can be substantiated? Meanwhile, wouldn't it amount to gossip?
  • Popular Now

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.