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1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

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Several posts from some recent topics have veered into a discussion of 1975 (yet again). My personal concern about the topic is that, like others have just mentioned, I have also been seeing a lack of honesty about it from both JWs and ex-JWs/non-JWs. We shouldn't be as concerned about what others on the outside say, but perhaps we need to take another look at the accuracy of statements that we make ourselves, in our own defense.

To start, I would say that I agree that no Watchtower article or Watchtower publication ever said that the world was going to end in 1975.

But when we try to convince people today about what was really said back then, what is our purpose in only selectively choosing things that were said and printed in Watchtower publications? Is it possible to be dishonest by what we omit when we defend this topic?

*GA: The upvote is an artefact of this post when it was under another topic. You may wish to remove it from this topic.

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I'd like to confirm an update. I spoke with one JW, an African American who became one of Jehovah's Witnesses back in 1973, I knew he was JW because of the little pin on his book-bag at a Super Walmart (A day I had the most awkward question being asked of me in a restaurant). After ths discussion, he was talking about all biological stuff, of which I didn't have time for for it didn't peek my interest.

This man stated during 1975 he was speaking about what was posed earlier, the 6,000 years of human existence and or creation since Adam. He also stated that around 1975 some JWs assumed that the end was actually coming, the result of some JWs spreading things that was never actually said, some JWs ended up buying homes and cars, for some odd reason while the other half, who took into account what was said knew that Judgement Day was near but it was not in 1975 nor was it ever said to be, mind you, the JW said they were still preaching and have not ceased such. He went on to say that because the ones who didn't hear correctly, end up leaving the faith for their own error, when several, if not many, mentioned exactly what took place in 1975, hence the previous comment.

Therefore, I do not see why some people make claim that JWs said the end would come in 1975 when nothing of the sort was ever mentioned, the irony is now that this information is public, no matter how hard opponents of the faith try to flag, get people's information and videos removed from the internet so this remains hidden.

Moreover, as for the Restaurant thing, this is off-topic. A random Hippie guy said to me that he appreciates my people and said that Aretha Franklin, and I was dumbfounded and confused, then I realized, I was the only person, that one guy, sitting in an all Korean restaurant. Although I do not take offense, that was a bit odd and weird, to some, they would scream racism for being singled out, but I care not because all I cared about was waiting for my order so I can go home. I like classic music very much, but I do not idolize any singers, even Ms. Franklin, hence what going on int hat funeral.

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Anna:

Oh yeah ... I had forgotten about THOSE crazy years ... because I never believed any of that .... but I did get caught, BIG TIME, in the "1975" fiasco, even though during the run-up to 1975 I openly ridiculed it ... right there at the end, I reasoned, in the fall of 1974

"How could I be right, and everybody else ... people I respected, loved  and cared about .... everybody ... be WRONG? ( About the end coming in 1975)."

It did not seem probable to me that EVERYBODY (In the Truth) was wrong so I quit the best job I ever had, in Zaire, the Congo, to be back home with my Mom and Dad in Virginia, when "the END came".

To this day, Brothers and Sisters "swear" that never happened .....  but in the  Watchtower, March 15, 1980 issue , paragraphs 17 and 18 ONE TIME admitted that they did say that ... in the book "Life Everlasting - In Freedom of the Sons of God".

I did not find out about that "soft admission of culpability" until Mr. Google and I became good friends, many, many years later ... but long before that I learned to trust my own instincts over that of anything the Society said or published.

If they are wrong, only we down here at the bottom have to pay the price for their error.

If they permanently screw up our lives ... they pay no price whatsoever.

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14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

it did not seem probable to me that EVERYBODY (In the Truth) was wrong so I quit the best job I ever had, in Zaire, the Congo, to be back home with my Mom and Dad in Virginia, when "the END came".

To this day, Brothers and Sisters "swear" that never happened ..

I believe you. I personally know a few who did similar things. There is no doubt about it that 1975 got blown up out of all proportions. That is why those who knew their Bible, and put that as precedent over what anybody else said (including the president of the society at the time) call it trusting your own instincts if you like, didn't get burned. But I understand that it must have been very difficult if the majority saw it differently than you. Moral of the story? Trust the Bible and no man. Lesson learned. We've got to move on.

14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

....... they pay no price whatsoever.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. According to facts the whole 1975 thing (well as to what I have made note of as of late) was of man's existence since Adam and people being told to be vigilant for anything can happen. Not once did anyone say the world is coming to an end, in the case of the Jehovah's Witnesses, it would make them seem foolish to say such, granted the preaching of the gospel has never ceased prior to, during 1975 at all, and there are several who say this, while the majority is being flagged by former members of the faith. Another factor is there are those who are aware of some JWs, who had since left the faith, took it upon themselves to commit their own actions, assuming the end of the world would come, which is foolish on their part for they heard very clearly.

Because one would have to be very honest with themselves, if the Bible tells you that the preaching of the gospel is to be done, preached to all the nations. In their Christology it is said there will be a time when they would totally cease preaching 100%, and we have not seen any of them happening now, in 1975 or in the past. Granted the gospel has to be preached first and according to them God will soon decide when to cease the gospel preaching, technically being a sign of the work being done, and you wouldn't see a JW in sight, as someone would say, JWs would just vanish without a trace.

If anything, some Jehovah's Witnesses may be bad hearers, or forgetful hearers assume otherwise, JW group B being in the wrong, while JW group A, who heard everything were in the right.

About the book, this is hat Old Man Eli had to say: The book Life Everlasting - In Freedom of the Sons of God, released at a series of district conventions held in 1966, pointed to 1975. Right at the convention, as the brothers examined the contents, the new book triggered much discussion about 1975." - Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom; pg. 104, Declaring the Good News Without Letup (1942-1975)

The book in question mentioned 1975 3 times (I could be wrong, replied on PDF source to see if they match up accordingly)

  • [1] According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E.
  • [2] cited (1975, 6,000 years from man's creation end. 29)
  • Other quotes (not in book/or whatever) “In the years following 1966, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses acted in harmony with the spirit of that counsel [the main point about not being specific about what might happen]. However, other statements were published on this subject, and some were likely more definite than advisable. This was acknowledged in The Watchtower of March 15, 1980 (page 17). But Jehovah’s Witnesses were also cautioned to concentrate mainly on doing Jehovah’s will and not to be swept up by dates and expectations of an early salvation.” (page 104) | "There were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year (1975) was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated." - Watchtower, 1980 March 15, p.17, par. 5

For the claim made by opponents "The Watchtower strongly implied the end would come in 1975." is as false as their other claim that JWs own parts of companies in electronics, lingerie and weapons, of which the same people claim the churches of JWs having weapon bunkers below. Also remnants of that strong video proof still linger about on the internet, thus further making such opponents in greater error, but what to expect from those [some among them] who would attempt to use the current President (The Orange-Haired One) to take down a single faith group?

I too believe the end will come, but no one knows for certain, for the bile says no one knows the day or the hour, not even the sons of the Most High, that being the angels, not even the only-begotten Son, Jesus knows, only God the Father knows (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32, Acts 1:7). In the same sense, it is like a teenager throwing a party while his or her parents are out of the house, but little does he/she knows that the time the parents will return home is unknown, not the best example, but it seems to fit the bill here.

That being said, although the end is indeed near, one should not be roaming about, caught with his pants down as they say when it does happen, by that time it would be too late, mainly when you, prior to the day see less and less preachers out there, be it true or false. It is one thing to be in agreement/disagreement with a faith........ Unless they are mainstream Trinitarian folk..... But one must know what is fact and what is not fact, but on occasion some of us tend to jump to conclusions, even though we, are the same ones who put forth actual fact previously - happens to me sometimes.

As far as I know, even to this day, you still see Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere, in the streets, at the houses, in the parks/schools, perhaps even in the bushes and trees as well, trying to evangelize people and speak of the gospel and a day will come when such places you would not see them at all, and eventually those who are adhering to the message, they too will be gone also, others may be in silence because they know what time it is.

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In my own experience, I was born in '57, baptized 10 years later, and had to read the "Life Everlasting" book as one of the two books assigned for baptismal candidates, along with the "Lamp" book questions. I auxiliary pioneered for several months in 1972, and quit school to regular pioneer for 3.5 years from 1973 until leaving for Brooklyn Bethel, where I worked full-time for 4 years, and then part-time, on projects, for another two while going to college in NYC.

I give this portion of my "resume" only because I can speak to the experience of being baptized prior to 1975, and was part of the Bethel build-up from the influx of workers and financial contributions that Bethel received around 1975. I pioneered for several years both before and after 1975.

Your experience may vary, but I can still tell you pretty much what I was thinking just prior to 1975, because I had to clear my plans with my parents, my school, and two circuit overseers, since I quit school while I was still 15 to begin regular pioneering in 1973.

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I would say it was an unfortunate collection of events, that altogether gave the impression that the society was promoting 1975 as the date for Armageddon. There is no doubt that it was insinuated by some prominent speakers at conventions (in America mainly?) and also those who were "living out their last days of this system selling their houses so they could pioneer" were publicly praised, ( also in the KM). It is no different now, those who give their all in full time service are also praised today, however, those who did this a few years before 1975 was no coincidence, and I believe the praise was worded in such a way that it was no coincidence either. There was so much insinuation that went unchecked, that it was no wonder 1975 became a fact, instead of what it was said to be, a maybe. It didn't help that one of the prominent brothers said in reply to "is Armageddon coming in 1975?": "we're not saying, we're not saying" which sounds like: "well yes of course it is, but I don't want to sound presumptuous". And who could help but not get excited by that famous Charles Sinutko talk where the phrase "stay alive till 75" was coined.

All in all I think it has been a good lesson for most: know your Bible, and make sure of all things. And if your (Bible trained) instincts tell you something isn't quite right, then it probably isn't. 

 

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7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Whatever happened to old Charlie, anyway? Did he ever get off KP duty?

Actually I think he's doing really well, if he's still alive. Look him up in JW library, or probably the cd.

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