1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I suppose that now is not the proper time to point out that I never refer to the Librarian without appending “that old hen.”

I think it was one of the Laura Ingalls Wilder books that had the phrase:

If at first you don't fricassee, fry fry a hen.

Or was it:

Whistling girls and crowing hens, always come to some bad ends.

Maybe, it was both. I've never read them myself. Our teacher read them all to us when I was in a 2-room schoolhouse in Missouri -- when I was in the 5th and 6th grades. It was really a one room schoolhouse with a divider down the middle, and one teacher handled grades 1 - 4 on one side, and another teacher handled grades 5 - 8 on the other. When I got to grade 5, we were supposed to be doing our schoolwork while the teacher teacher taught the other grades. Very distracting, but you get used to it. At any rate, all 4 grades at once had to listen to L.I.Wilder's "Little House" series for an hour a day.

[JW Insider]

Original version of 1975 in Prophecy!  (link to PDF)

Some good points there @BillyTheKid46, about Armstrong and Taylor. (I hadn't heard of Taylor back then.)

I remember hearing Witnesses talk about how closely Herbert W Armstrong sounded like the message of the Witnesses, and how elders from the platform had to mention that we don't listen to such programs even though there might be a lot of good information that draws us in.

Just like "The Plain Truth," this brochure "1975 In Prophecy!" from which I copied pieces above, speaks with similar language. The message had many differences, but it was styled much as our own teachings:

• the 144,000 as spirit begotten ones.
• The 6,000 years of trying man's rule as a test of whether man can rule himself.
• It mentions the Great Tribulation,
• and Armageddon,
• and the New World (called The World Tomorrow).
• It speaks of those who know the "Truth" surviving
• During the millennium, those with the Truth will teach those others who come through the Great Tribulation.
• Matthew 24 was often used to point out the greater number of earthquakes, famines, pestilences, and wars.
• The fulfillment on Jerusalem in 70 was only the "typical" fulfillment.
• Authors and experts were quoted about 1975, just as the 1968 version of the "Truth" book had done.
• The repetition of phrases like "IT'S LATER THAN YOU THINK" and "Time is running out for this world," etc., were nearly identical to covers of the Awake! that put them in the form of a question: IS IT LATER THAN YOU THINK? Is Time Running Out For This World?"
• The pictures of destruction at Armageddon with buildings toppling and dead bodies are shown before pictures of a new world society of survivors building things new, and then a paradise completed by the end of the thousand years.

Back in 1956, when the above magazine was written, the Watchtower was still teaching that the end of the 6,000 years of man's existence would be in 1976, not 1975.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

How, specifically?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Fortunately, Dilbert anticipates your every word BTK46 .....

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The reason 1975 became a fiasco aside from the obvious indicators ex-witnesses bring, there were other prophesiers to claim the “end of the world” would be in 1975. Herbert W. Armstrong, and Charles R. Taylor that I can recall.

 

4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I had several friends ask me who Herbert Armstrong was, and why was he stating the world would end in 1975, when I was telling my friends about the end of an era, the 6000 years of human existence.

Here, after this two quotes you bring, i have to ask: Did rank and file JW members of those period have read also Non-WT publications about 1975? When you say: "I had several friends ask me...", well, you mean on your JW friends or Non-JW friends?  Also, Betel Bible scholars have custom to read "worldly" publications on various topics, and it would be no surprise how some of influence and ideas were copied or/and modified  and presented as "Bible Light" to JW's.

Apostates and ex-witnesses (generally is the same group to WT Society), according to your presentation, are in fact JW members from 1975 period who became "apostates and ex-witnesses" because they are reading works of Non-JW authors of books???? :))))  

 

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, the Works of the Watchtower are considerably different in its outcome with its message to distinguish itself from others.

Yes, WT dfd many who was confused and questioned religious doctrines and ideas about 1975. THAT IS considerably different from others. :))

[JW Insider]

[I'm separating this post from the one it was combined with above:]

Back in 1956, when Armstrong's "1975 in Prophecy!" magazine was written, the Watchtower was still teaching that 1976 was the end of the 6,000 years. Note the words highlighted in blue and red in the following three Watchtower articles, especially the part about how long it took Adam to name the animals.

The first link is to the Feb 1, 1955 Watchtower "Questions From Readers" on jw.org.  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1955089

According to Genesis 1:24-31 Adam was created during the last part of the sixth creative-day period of 7,000 years. Almost all independent chronologists assume incorrectly that, as soon as Adam was created, then began Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period of the creative week. Such then figure that from Adam’s creation, now thought to be the fall of 4025 B.C., why, six thousand years of God’s rest day would be ending in the fall of 1976. However, from our present chronology (which is admitted imperfect) at best the fall of the year 1976 would be the end of 6,000 years of human history for mankind, 6,000 years of man’s existence on the earth, not 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period. Why not? Because Adam lived some time after his creation in the latter part of Jehovah’s sixth creative period, before the seventh period, Jehovah’s sabbath, began.

Why, it must have taken Adam quite some time to name all the animals, as he was commissioned to do. . . .

The very fact that, as part of Jehovah’s secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah’s present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam’s 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date.

When the 1955 article was updated in 1968, 13 years later, note how the line about the accuracy of the chronology remains the same (almost verbatim in blue) but the line about the animals (in red) has changed: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1968602#h=59

Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? . . .

This time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time. The animals were in subjection to Adam; they were peaceful; they came under God’s leading; they were not needing to be chased down and caught. It took Noah only seven days to get the same kinds of animals, male and female, into the Ark. (Gen. 7:1-4) Eve’s creation was quickly accomplished, ‘while Adam was sleeping.’ (Gen. 2:21) So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time.

By October 1, 1975, the Watchtower changed back to the 1956 style statements about Adam and how long it might have taken to name the animals: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1975720

During that time, God had Adam name the animals. Whether that period amounted to weeks or months or years, we do not know. So we do not know exactly when Jehovah’s great “rest day” began, nor do we know exactly when it will end. The same applies to the beginning of Christ’s millennial reign. The Bible provides us no way to fix the date, and so it does us no good to speculate when that date may be.—Gen. 2:18-25; Matt. 24:42, 44.

However, the Bible’s time clock does indicate to us that 6,000 years of human history end in this year 1975. Early in God’s “rest day” Adam became a rebel against God-rule. Thus, for the most part, the first 6,000 years of man’s history have been marked by man-rule.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, Srecko does it really take an active witness to read other peoples works or can it be other people read those works and combined it with the Watchtower to have asked a witness about it, or think it was the Watchtower that published it to have accepted it by mistake.

.... or can it be other people read those works and combined it with the Watchtower to have asked a witness about it, ....

Do you suggest by this how non-JW people are so interested to know what JW's have to say about some subject on world events - in particular, about 1975 - ? I think that you can count on fingers of one hand, it is so small number of non-JW who would, who was talking about 1975 in religious manner, in that period of time when WT Society publication put effort to emphasized 1975 as very important year to humankind in connection to Bible prophesies about Last days, Armageddon, Salvation, Kingdom. 

I think that 1975 has been of Important interest, in JW Unique Way of Bible Doctrines, only to JW members inside JW Organization. Because they have read about 1975 in own publications, of course, and not in Washington Post or in National Geographic, for example.

 But, because we been presented here how also other non-JW people were speaking about 1975, from their standpoints, it is possible to conclude how JW's has been trustful only to WT Society Spiritual Leaders and not to some other religious or secular sources. By that what we know how JW members are warned to be very careful about any other sources of information, it can be say how JW's in period before 1975 have been very obedient and listen only that what WT Society said about 1975. 

[Srecko Sostar]

I think how @Foreigner is robot... most of the time. He/she is in down vote crusade, again :)))) 

[Foreigner]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I think how @Foreigner is robot

[JW Insider]

@BillyTheKid46, I thought you mostly just employed @Foreigner for vote spamming. I see you are doing some of the dirty work under your own name. And I also see you are nowhere near done yet, because you have added several more just since I copied the two images below.

What's odd, however is that "both" of you have now voted down posts that contained nothing more than scriptures quoted from the NWT, and just above in this same topic, only 4 posts back, you (and Foreigner, of course) downvoted a post that does no more than introduce 3 Watchtower quotes about how long it took Adam to name the animals with surrounding context. Are you really that embarrassed by quotes from the Watchtower that you found it necessary to give two down votes to these Watchtower quotes????

[JW Insider]

21 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

You and your apostate friends get a life outside the Watchtower. You people disgrace the Watchtower and God. Your disgusting human beings pretending to be Christians. That's the lowest a human can go.

Your diversionary attack on me does not explain why you indicated above that you are ashamed of the quotes from the Watchtower. I put the quotes there because it's so clear how we can learn from these, how they can apply today, and why it's so important to be honest about our past assumptions and conjecture.

By merely indicating your shame and embarrassment about the Watchtower, you do nothing to show how we can learn from it. If we are merely ashamed, we will be more likely to hide the things we are embarrassed about, or try to claim that they should not be brought up. As you admitted earlier this is a kind of dishonesty when we fail to present key points.

Oh, look, here's some more vote spamming that I missed, just in this topic alone, just in the last few minutes, and just on MY posts here:

That doesn't even include a few other examples of vote spamming. Like this one from just a couple minutes ago, when I agreed with @Space Merchant here about how the JWs will soon hit the 9 million mark in peak and average publishers.

I don't think it's just your shame and embarrassment about things the Watchtower has said. Surely you are not fighting against increased numbers, too. I really can't tell what you have against my statement to @Space Merchant above. If you are not too busy with your ongoing vote spamming campaigns, perhaps you could take some time out of your busy life to explain.

 

[ComfortMyPeople]

24 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Your diversionary attack on me does not explain why you indicated above that you are ashamed of the quotes from the Watchtower. I put the quotes there because it's so clear how we can learn from these, how they can apply today, and why it's so important to be honest about our past assumptions and conjecture.

By merely indicating your shame and embarrassment about the Watchtower, you do nothing to show how we can learn from it. If we are merely ashamed, we will be more likely to hide the things we are embarrassed about, or try to claim that they should not be brought up. As you admitted earlier this is a kind of dishonesty when we fail to present key points.

Oh, look, here's some more vote spamming that I missed, just in this topic alone, just in the last few minutes, and just on MY posts here:

That doesn't even include a few other examples of vote spamming. Like this one from just a couple minutes ago, when I agreed with @Space Merchant here about how the JWs will soon hit the 9 million mark in peak and average publishers.

I don't think it's just your shame and embarrassment about things the Watchtower has said. Surely you are not fighting against increased numbers, too. I really can't tell what you have against my statement to @Space Merchant above. If you are not too busy with your ongoing vote spamming campaigns, perhaps you could take some time out of your busy life to explain.

 

@JW Insider After quite some time reading this person's post, I cannot but feel that the proverb applies perfectly to this situation

 

(Proverbs 9:8) . . .Do not reprove a ridiculer, or he will hate you. Reprove a wise person, and he will love you. . . 

 This person (I think it is obvious to everyone who is) insults and disparages those who disagree with his thinking. Sadly, he thinks he defends Jehovah's Witnesses, but his unbalanced way of thinking is most confusing and pathetic. 

JWI, many appreciate your comments, but I would dare to advise you that, following the Proverb mentioned above, respond to this person in the most effective way: silence