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1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

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44 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Anyone who makes claims that are not backed up by evidence might just be showing a lack of care about truth and honesty. That's not necessarily dishonesty, and it might just be based on strong opinions or personal experiences, or believing what one thinks one must believe to keep small pieces of their world view (belief structures) from collapsing. But people who make claims that are contradicted by evidence and who cannot or will not try to present relevant evidence to support their claims, well, unfortunately, those people really are being dishonest, even if their motive is to hang on to an ideology or belief structure they know to be important.

I believe you fall short on this one since it can be applied to you and others here.

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Some WT publications in articles that talk about the end of 6,000 years, and these are the well-known passages on the Internet, even today show that people of that time had great expectations about 1975. And today's reader, by reading same quotes, who did not live in that time and euphoria about a possible future, may come to the conclusion that JW expected change on global scale (nothing new in fact,  IBS and then JW expected that change more then one time, and still now talking "the end is very near")
Is there a sentence in an article that speaks directly or indirectly about some details about 1975 may not be a crucial thing that have to give us an answer today to the question of truth and honesty of WT, and then of the JW member too.
JW brothers and sisters in the time before 1975 had the expectation that change might occur. Did those who had hoped for the new world were a lot or a few, what motives they had and why, that is irrelevant !! WT has given material, spiritual food that has led to the warming up of interest for the possibility in coming of Armageddon and for the Kingdom that will rule over the Earth.

This very fact how 1975 is mentioned not only by ex-JW, but also by JW members and was/is of public speaks and in WT magazines show how something was controversial and  disputable in connection/with 1975.

I was baptized in 1977, started study "blue bomb" in 1975. And have memorized that 1975 was year that some JW with whom i had contacts (elders too)  expected how something will happen. 

Today, I drove a car to the service and returned by bus to the city. One sister, her husband is elder, recognized me after many years and she knew I was no longer JW, started talking to me. She said how she is very happy for getting  new job (in school) after been unemployment for some time, and now can easier to repay the mortgage. In the end she told me that she is hoping  I will return to the assembly because "now is very close to the end".   What is interesting, she and her husband was single workers at Zagreb Betel. They get married and continue work in Betel. After some years must left because personal problems, She became suicidal. Her husband was one to whom i send many quotes from articles, before few years, in English language, about some issues and 1975 also. He never responded to my e-mails. 

Well, JW people living from generation to generation with similar "now is very close to the end". 

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Maybe is  that what happened before, but also this what is happening now in the WT corporation, like this one;

Dallas police officer was charged on Sunday with manslaughter in the fatal shooting of a neighbor, who authorities said was shot by the officer when she walked into an apartment she thought was her own and mistook the man living there for an intruder.

The bizarre sequence of events unfolded after the police officer, Amber Guyger, 30, had just completed a shift late on Thursday and was still in uniform as she returned to an apartment she erroneously believed was hers, police said.


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1 hour ago, Grey Reformer said:

So, no one should deny, deny, deny the falsehoods anyone says about the Watchtower and 1975.

False. Everyone should deny falsehoods.

1 hour ago, Grey Reformer said:

Who's denying that former witnesses are the least honest people alive?

I agree that former Witnesses can be dishonest. I wouldn't judge them as the least honest people alive.  I have seen evidence of some dishonesty among some, but don't think any human even has a way to know if they are more or less honest than current Witnesses. My guess is that they would be about the same, on average -- less honest on some topics and more honest on some topics, depending on whether they are trying to promote or protect a specific ideology.

1 hour ago, Grey Reformer said:

My question is, why then defend their views with your own opposition and with the same distorted publicans they use here by so many of you.

I don't defend the views of ex-Witnesses except where the evidence happens to coincide with their views, in which case we don't have much choice if we are honest. I'm opposed to dishonesty so I try not to deny evidence. If some of that evidence is found in their distorted publications, we should still be willing to look at the same evidence, even while identifying how they have distorted the use or conclusions made from it. This does NOT mean we will agree with their views, especially if they are distorting the evidence. Furthermore, we don't even need to look at their views to make a judgment on the accuracy and relevance of the evidence they present.

By "evidence" here, I'm referring specifically to quotations from Watch Tower publications. After checking a few hundred of these quotations found on many different sites, I get the impression that ex-Witnesses are even more careful than Witnesses when it comes to accuracy of the actual quotes. I've also seen some misquotes and misuse of context, mistakes, and outright dishonesty from some ex-Witnesses, too. But for the most part I think they realize that their argument is immediately lost, if a Witness were to find an inaccurate quote.

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9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't defend the views of ex-Witnesses except where the evidence happens to coincide with their views, in which case we don't have much choice if we are honest.

How is it any different from ex-witness view then, that you agree with their distorted facts? That means you are deliberately adding to the false narrative that you are trying so hard to convince people here you are again'st. People can't have it both ways. This doesn't make any sense on an intellectual level when people support opposing views. Either directly or indirectly by agreeing with incoherency through up or down votes.

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

By "evidence" here, I'm referring specifically to quotations from Watch Tower publications.

You have contradicted your stance with the Watchtower. But, I guess this is what's happens when you go to an apostate site like JWfacts to gather the material.

Then why be judgmental toward the Watchtower. If you don’t want to judge former witnesses for their hatred and prosecution? Then why is it so simple to imply the Watchtower has done something wrong, when in reality as you stated, it never did.

Where is the red line for that kind of behavior? That people find it easy to pile on, on a misconception.

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1 hour ago, Grey Reformer said:

Where is the red line for that kind of behavior? That people find it easy to pile on, on a misconception.

Grey Reformer:

Please go back and re-read what you have written in the last several weeks. It is all extremely consistent.

You care NOTHING about actual facts ... if it disagrees with your agenda.

In the very first issue of the Watchtower, Bro. C. T. Russel stated that ( heavily paraphrased) "The truth is the truth, no matter what the source ... if Satan tells you something that is true... it's still true".

That is still true today.







You may want to download BOTH  JPGs,  but especially the quote from Bro. Charles Taze Russel, which started the whole shebang of modern day Jehovah''s Witnesses ... based ON THIS PRINCIPLE. ... " What is Truth ?" It is high resolution, and easier to read when downloaded and enlarged.



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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You care NOTHING about actual facts ... if it disagrees with your agenda.

In the very first issue of the Watchtower, Bro. C. T. Russel stated that ( heavily paraphrased) "The truth is the truth, no matter what the source ... if Satan tells you something that is true... it's still true".

I can see where it would become a problem for people that admit one thing, turn around and stab people in the back. Actual facts are in black and white. Many here are merely instigators to purge on the intelligence of others, with actual known facts that JWinsider has already admitted to. I don’t need to resort to ad-hominem attacks or hurl insults. But I guess that’s a handicap for those that you disagree with. Sorry for not being part of your distorted team. I have a conscience and I’m faith when obeying God. Thus far, the only point made here, former witnesses are wrong about 1975, and some of you are wrong to think they’re way by giving the same company line. Which truth should we follow, God and Jesus, or Satan? God and Christ never hide or distorted the truth to get their way, while Satan did.

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The climatic conclusion met with thunderous applause of the 1967 Charles Sinutko Assembly talk "Serving With Everlasting Life In View" !

After his opening weasel wording  he forgot his plausible deniability statement in the beginning, and ramped it up to a crescendo conclusion  that had the crowd roaring!




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