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1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

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JW Insider -
Anna -
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2018

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7 hours ago, Vic Vomidog said:

Never pay attention to coincidences like this. They mean nothing. hehehehe

Just remember: Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult!

And don’t listen to that liar @TrueTomHarley when he pretends to agree, but adds:

C. courage

U. unity 

L. love

T. truth

 

Arrrggghhhh! I hate him!

OK True Tom, cut it out! xD

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2 hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:

All of this "chicken little" stuffage is a true waste of time.  WOW!  Talk about gulping down the gnat!   Where is the Love?   There should be encouraging talk for each other in these....Significant Times.

Sorry AS34/GR I didn’t mean to log in at the same time as you. My bad. I keep forgetting who’s who. I’m you, you are me. He is she, it is they, and they are them. As wrong as JWinsider is, he has a good imagination for conspiracies. LOL! People like Anna love it. Can you say secret lovers?

I couldn’t agree more. Perhaps it’s because you have about 4-5 people that make the environment here impossible to attach a righteous command by Christ of loving one another and holding the body of Christ in unity. There is no one else to blame. But we also need to keep in mind, there are plenty of opposers contributing to these contentious topics, and honest witnesses are not willing to defend their faith adequately. Therefore, who is worse and how does this affect the personal lives of those referring to themselves as True Christians. There seems to be an disconnect with the truth.

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10 minutes ago, Alithís Gnosis said:

Sorry AS34/GR I didn’t mean to log in at the same time as you. My bad. I keep forgetting who’s who. I’m you, you are me. He is she, it is they, and they are them.

I  waited until you logged off. come on! we had a good thing going. Remember, wait awhile and log in again. That way we can pretend to be each other. LOL! ??

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14 hours ago, Alithís Gnosis said:

As wrong as JWinsider is, he has a good imagination for conspiracies. LOL! People like Anna love it. Can you say secret lovers?

 

@AllenSmith34,

In just the last couple days, in my opinion, the following aliases have all been juggled by the same person. There may have been others but these are the ones that have interacted with posts I have been reading.

@DespicableME @Malum Intellectus @Alithís Gnosis @Grey Reformer In some of the recent threads, some of these aliases have only been used for up-voting and down-voting. And no, All, I did not hack your account to expose this. Except for Gray Reformer, which didn't show up until August 7, the first three just mentioned were all created by you in the same month, December 2017, and I knew all of them to be you within minutes. Anyone here who was alert to the way they were used immediately after they appeared, and who watched the "Who's Online" list, would have known this just by watching carefully. From now on, as you apparently know, you can mask some of the exposure by keeping several of your aliases logged in at the same time by using multiple computers and/or by using multiple browsers on the same computer. There are several different popular browsers that can all be used simultaneously, and each can be logged in to a different alias account. The downside to that is that you might find it necessary to set up a new set of names since about two dozen of your aliases are already fairly well-known.

Again, these ideas are based on opinion and coincidences; you do not have to worry that anyone has hacked your account(s) to expose these things.

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18 hours ago, Anna said:

So was that it? The "WILL" became a "MAY"?

That's not really the story, in my opinion. The Watchtower has often admitted that the title of the talk used the word "May" in February 2018, but that it was changed to "Will" in March 2018, and it never changed back. Looking at over 200 references to it in more recent decades, there were some time periods when the talk was referred to only with "May" and no reference to "Will" was given. This is likely what JTR refers to, but it wasn't as blatant as he implies. Overall, in recent decades, there were over 200 recent references to it as "Will" and only about 20 references to it as "May."

The Proclaimers book gives a fairly accurate account of the talk, even if the discussion and impact of the talk and prophecy appears purposely minimized.

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On 9/11/2018 at 5:15 PM, Anna said:

So how has this been explained away today? I don't seem to recall anything...

Nothing needed to be done to explain it away for nearly 100 years, because there was still a chance within the first 100 years, that the prophecy might have come true. (At least the prophecy made in the title of the talk might still have come true, even if almost all the other details of the prophecy and its foundation had still failed.)

And after 100 years any "scandal" over it is long past, and could easily be dismissed with favorite phrases like "the light gets brighter." 

The statement made in March 1918 ("Millions now living will never die.") has only recently become a truly "false" prophecy in that a fulfillment of sorts was still possible up until a couple years ago. Technically, you would need at least 2 million persons to make the plural "millions" part come true, and we would evidently have needed Armageddon to come sometime around 2016 in order for 2 million 98+ year-olds to still be alive, who had just born in March 1918. Perhaps, some worldwide estimates of the number of 99+ year-olds in 2017 could have been around to potentially survive Armageddon. As of now in late 2018, however, there would have to be 2 million 100.5-year-olds, going on 101 in the next few months. According to average best estimates there are now far less than 1 million 100-year-olds. In fact, barely over 500,000 as seen in the PEW chart that Google returns if you ask "how many centenarians are currently alive in the whole world."

image.png

Another point that would make it even more difficult to be fulfilled would be the fact that back then these millions were going to be unbaptized, worldly people who would simply begin "not to die" as of 1925 and thereafter. It did not refer to the great crowd of Revelation 7. It referred to people of all religions and non-believers who would survive Armageddon because it was Jehovah's purpose, as stated at the time, to save almost everyone through Armageddon into a time when they would simply stop dying. Remember that the "great crowd" of Revelation 7 were still going to heaven along with the 144,000 kings and priests, according to Russell's and Rutherford's teachings. The only difference between the 144,000 in heaven and the great crowd in heaven is that the great crowd were not of the "higher" heavenly calling and were not part of Christ's Bride.

By normally obscuring this fact, and wrongly claiming that the "millions" were the equivalent of the "great crowd,"  the Watch Tower publications have been able to just "chalk up" the prophecy to over-optimism in thinking so many would respond to the Bible Students in such a quick period of time after 1918. It is very rare for the Watch Tower publications to admit how closely this prophecy was tied to the year 1925. In other words, when the great tribulation does come in the next few years, as expected, it will only have been a few years off.

Understanding the original prophecy in its full context is a good idea, in order to understand how and why the references to it have evolved over time. Maybe in another thread?

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I understand that it is being discussed at World HQ running a special issue of the Watchtower, explaining the "signs from the heavens ..." that Hurricane Florence will be picking up sharks from the Atlantic Ocean, and dumping them in front yards, back yards, and on old peoples homes.

If at the Warwick GB conference room this is actually discussed, and it gets 67% of the votes of the GB, then this will be official "New Light".... "New Truth".

Absurd, you say?  No, No NO!

It follows well established patterns of reason and logic for over a HUNDRED YEARS  There is actually NO RISK to this as the credibility gap is WELL exceeded by the gullibility fill. 

Add to that is that if we refuse to believe it, we can be disfellowshipped for Apostasy, and that adds MASSIVE believability  in the real world .

Stay tuned to see if this report is true, or merely a satire.

 

Gravity Electricity Wind .mp4

 

... and remember, when you vote for what is true .... vote early, and vote often !

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. I don't think it would be of concern to them, but they will react as they did in Mexico, Puerto Rico, Texas, Haiti, Japan, etc. it won't be much of a difference with Hurricane Florence since the faith group does relief work to help their own, first, and go for anyone else, as is done before with them, and like before any relief work they do will be flagged and removed and they will be spoken of as the faith group that did nothing - has I made mention of last year. The biggest concern for everyone is that this is a slow moving storm and slow moving means catastrophic damage, as in if their are plant facilities in the area, of which can raise the danger level even higher, and slow moving also increases the chances of little to no survivability with all that water in it's wake.

 

Other than that, natural disasters such as earthquakes even even hurricanes like this are signs and the Bible speaks of such things.

But let us not get carried away like others who claim the hurricane, as done before, it God's anger against mankind, the Christians who stated this a while back for Hurricane Irma because the hurricane looks like a skeletal figure's face (The Grim Reaper) are in error, the same goes for those speak of conspiracy in regards to said hurricanes, including this one.

Also I'd like to add that $10 million was transferred from FEMA to ICE, I don't have sympathy for both of them for their actions, as well as The Red Cross who made fool's those half my family originates from.

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@Anna I guess so, makes one easy to deduce, that's like finding out Bruce Wayne is the Batman, minus the shock value, for in this case, we already know who is behind the mask.

On another forum, if you have multiple names/accounts, one can be called out by an admin/members or even banned, or given warning. at the other Christian forums I use to be on, someone got blasted by an admin on the entire forum. Mainly when you have some folks who agree with themselves or liking their own comments from the other account.

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Technically, you would need at least 2 million persons to make the plural "millions" part come true, and we would evidently have needed Armageddon to come sometime around 2016 in order for 2 million 98+ year-olds to still be alive, who had just born in March 1918. Perhaps, some worldwide estimates of the number of 99+ year-olds in 2017 could have been around to potentially survive Armageddon.

Technically yes, but practically, we know, and everyone else knows, when that statement was made it was not referring to babies born in 1918 and people living till they were nearly a 100. It was was talking about those who were in the audience at the time and perhaps of average age, which would probably be 35 to 45 year olds?

 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Remember that the "great crowd" of Revelation 7 were still going to heaven along with the 144,000 kings and priests, according to Russell's and Rutherford's teachings.

Actually I never knew that!

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Understanding the original prophecy in its full context is a good idea, in order to understand how and why the references to it have evolved over time. Maybe in another thread?

Yes please. I don't know much about it. I just know that this talk was given and that obviously it was.....well......wishful thinking at best and totally false at worst. And I guess it had a lot to do with the 1925 campaign.

What I wondered was if our latest publications have mentioned anything about it. I can look it up too...

PS. The last mention of "millions now living will never die" that I have in my WT CD library is from 2009 WT . The article was a life experience entitled "Ninety Years Ago I Began to ‘Remember My Grand Creator" one excerpt says this:

"Some months before this incident at school, our family had moved to live near Glasgow in Scotland. About that time, Father attended the public talk entitled “Millions Now Living Will Never Die.” It changed his life. Father and Mother began studying the Bible and often talked together about God’s Kingdom and the blessings to come. I thank God that from then on my parents brought me up to love God and to put my trust in him."— WT/2009/7/15

Most likely today this brother is dead...

 

 

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Thah'ss  a  OK, AllenSmith34 ... I wrote yor a name on a piece of ah paper and gave it to Guido ... who has knife scars from his eyebrows to his stomach, that never heal, and who has a very creative take on civilized behavior, and a  like a Lion when you remove a thorn from its paw ... never forgets a favor.

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5 hours ago, Anna said:

And I guess it had a lot to do with the 1925 campaign.

Yes, the Millions campaign was the 1925 campaign. The 1918 sermon was based on the 1925 date as found in the 1917 book, "The Finished Mystery." The "canvas" offer for that book, remember, only required that people stay alive until 1925 in order to be among the "millions" who would never die.

By, 1920, the entire talk was published and expanded upon a bit, in the booklet "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." They would never die because millions of people alive in 1918 would still be alive in 1925. By 1921, the new book, "The Harp of God" came out, which also used the 1925 promises as a theme. In fact, note what is embossed on early covers of that famous book. If it's hard to read, it's repeated on the inside title page. "Proof Conclusive that Millions now Living will never Die." (This was removed in the 1928, 2nd edition.)

image.pngimage.png

It was advertised in newspapers with the year printed in the advertisement. The following example from April 1921, saying: "to apply it to ourselves requires positive knowledge based upon indisputable evidence. Thousands of profound Bible scholars can prove from Bible prophecies which have been fulfiled during the last 5 years that those living until the year 1925 can live forever if they choose to do so." ". . . [H]ear and consider definite Scriptural proof for this proclamation."

image.png

 

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40 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The 1918 sermon was based on the 1925 date as found in the 1917 book, "The Finished Mystery." The "canvas" offer for that book, remember, only required that people stay alive until 1925 in order to be among the "millions" who would never die.

Aaaah, I thought there was a book that mentioned the "millions will never die" not just a sermon. I am connecting the dots now, thank you! It looks like Rutherford also authored a book with that title. (Also I get how the millions couldn't have referred only to the Bible students, as there wasn't a million of them yet).

So since this topic is about 1975, it doesn't apply to this, however the question regarding honesty is the same, are we being honest about the millions and 1925? How is the statement "proof conclusive" being  explained today, since the proof was obviously false. And statements such as this:

54 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

"to apply it to ourselves requires positive knowledge based upon indisputable evidence. Thousands of profound Bible scholars can prove from Bible prophecies which have been fulfiled during the last 5 years that those living until the year 1925 can live forever if they choose to do so."   ". . . [H]ear and consider definite Scriptural proof for this proclamation."

 

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