At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

25 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

At what point did you realise this was actually a false expectation? 

I knew it was false every time it was proposed, from the mid 60's forward ... and made fun of it .... but after a decade of constant reinforcement, even the commending of Brothers who sold their homes to Pioneer in the KM, and who took out loans they never expected to have to pay back, put off having families and dental care, and operations, and constant bombardment of "Stay alive 'till '75" .... and everyone I had grown up with in the Truth convinced that the end was just months away ... I reasoned "How could I be right, and EVERYBODY I respected, knew, and loved .... how could everybody else .... be wrong? 

I was at the best job I ever had, doing Surveying in the Congo, then called Zaire, and due to peer pressure from everything published, and talked about, decided I had to be home in Virginia when the end came, to be with my parents.  This was late 1974.

I caved in. I fell for the snow job.

Since then, in the past few years, recollecting the history that I personally experienced, I have come to the conclusion that I have to trust MYSELF first. 

I cannot trust anyone else .... especially those who have a one hundred year unbroken record of being consistently always wrong about EVERYTHING except basic core theology.

If the Governing Body makes proclamations or instructions, and they are wrong, about the end-times,  blood, personal integrity, sex between married couples, or any other issue (and they pretend to be experts on every subject imaginable...)  .... they have historically destroyed MILLIONS of lives... and when they are wrong ... THEY PAY NO PRICE WHATSOEVER.

I weep for all those who have been chased away from the Truth ... because the GB is obsessed with absolute drivel, self-aggrandizement, and on the ground ... where the "rubber meets the road", have completely negated their personal accountability, and Justice and Mercy

If I am wrong, I may die, but I can only be killed ONE TIME ... and I do not drag ten or a hundred thousand with me.  

Or chase a million with conscience away.

I alone will pay the price of being wrong.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

he reasoning of a perfect and sensible person. Follow this person.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

 

46 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

agree that unfulfilled expectations as a result of believing human speculation is indeed far from encouraging. Yet the Scriptures, (true prophecy), long counselled against this tendency and warned of it's results: "Do not put your trust in princes nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation" Ps.146:3; "Expectation postponed makes the heart sick" Pro.13:12.

It is amazing how Bible itself, and of course, especially  with help of interpretations made by church leaders and bible scholars, making confrontation inside book itself and inside people's mind. 

Obey your leaders and submit to them, VS Do not put your trust in princes nor in a son of man,

for they are keeping watch over your souls VS who cannot bring salvation

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

BillyTheKid46:

Can you please tell me WHAT about my post you thought was funny?

 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The same kind of debate that was given in 2014 between Bill Nye and Ken Ham

Bill Nye is more of a "promoter" than a scientist. He definitely does not belong in the same category as Richard Feynman. I've read two of Feynman's books and they are really good, and reflect true science. I loved "What do you care what other people think?" because it draws non-scientists into his world.

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The 1975 fiasco. Where is the argument in Watchtower literature that relates to the world ending according to the conspiracy theorist? Don’t give nonsensical replies, that it was implied by convention talks, thanks.

Echos of your doppelgangers here. They always have said the same thing about the 1975 fiasco. It's true that no Watchtower literature ever contained a prediction that Armageddon would arrive in 1975. The point was that at some time in the 1970's we should expect Armageddon to be no further than a matter of months, not years, away.

*** km 9/73 p. 1 par. 4 Intensive Tract Distribution ***

• Why is the distribution being done in such an intensive manner? Because of the impact that this will have on the public. People talk to one another, and they will soon realize that nearly everyone they know was served with the same urgent message. This will make a far deeper impression than would a gradual distribution over many months. Furthermore, we realize that the time remaining for this wicked world is greatly reduced. Opportunity for people to learn the truth and take their stand on Jehovah’s side is fast running out.

*** km 5/74 p. 3 How Are You Using Your Life? ***

• Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.

I started regular pioneering in the summer of 1973 and quit school even though I was technically still 15 years old, turning 16 before the next school year. I have to admit, it felt good being one of those statistics. My parents then, as a favor, sold our time-consuming farm worth about $50,000 (1974) at the time for only $10,000 to a brother and moved us all into the city. The brother we sold it to broke up the old farm acres into several subdivisions, got power and septic tanks to all the lots, and probably made a million dollars by now. He's no longer a Witness (and recently died too) but several Witness families still live on those acres.

And of course, quitting high school at age 15 was not just recommended by circuit overseers. It was the subtext of the following prophecy made in Watch Tower publications in 1969, preparing us for "What Will the 1970s Bring?":

**g69 5/22 p.15

• "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. . . . . Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake!1969 May 22 p.15 

And all of it was based on a totally unbiblical belief that each of the 7 creative days were 7,000 years in length, which supposedly made it significant that we were evidently coming up on then being 6,000 years into that seventh day. Why ever bring up the 6,000 years since Adam if we weren't pushing its supposed but unbiblical significance?

*** w68 8/15 p. 499 pars. 29-30 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***

• That means, in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now (and not in 1997 as would be the case if Ussher’s figures were correct), it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam, the father of all mankind!   Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.

Then of course, in 1972 and 1973 the Watchtower promoted the "Ezekiel" book and other publications with the statement that the faithful and discreet slave was a prophet. Not just a "prophet" with quotes around it, but literally, a prophet. This was not very different from statements like this one in 1924 referring to Rutherford and another like him:

*** g1924 p.149 ***

• " . . . Judge Rutherford is permeated with the real Biblical and prophetic spirit, ceases not in his discourse to defy the devil and throw (morally) an inkwell into his face, as the deceased Luther did. . . . This year 1924 is worse than 1914."

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Thank you JW Insider, for providing absolute proof. 

BillyTheKid46  would deny the existence of a car if it ran over his foot, because all his friends don't believe cars were ever invented.

I was there .... and as you know, there are literally whole CHAPTERS on this subject that have been posted in the past seven or so years, here on the Archive.

Any idea if it is possible to download the whole archive, since the beginning, to a large USB 4 TB hard drive?

It might come in handy to have some off-site copies, since the format and such has changed so many times...

I am having trouble keeping track of my cartoon and meme collection.

Thanks for the "heavy lifting".

[Srecko Sostar]

18 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I asked a question earlier, where is the practical and impractical application with feminism?

Sorry, but what my comment have with "feminism" issue. :))

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I knew it was false every time it was proposed, from the mid 60's forward ... and made fun of it .... but after a decade of constant reinforcement, even the commending of Brothers who sold their homes to Pioneer in the KM, and who took out loans they never expected to have to pay back, put off having families and dental care, and operations, and constant bombardment of "Stay alive 'till '75" .... and everyone I had grown up with in the Truth convinced that the end was just months away ... I reasoned "How could I be right, and EVERYBODY I respected, knew, and loved .... how could everybody else .... be wrong? 

I was at the best job I ever had, doing Surveying in the Congo, then called Zaire, and due to peer pressure from everything published, and talked about, decided I had to be home in Virginia when the end came, to be with my parents.  This was late 1974.

I caved in. I fell for the snow job.

Since then, in the past few years, recollecting the history that I personally experienced, I have come to the conclusion that I have to trust MYSELF first. 

I cannot trust anyone else .... especially those who have a one hundred year unbroken record of being consistently always wrong about EVERYTHING except basic core theology.

If the Governing Body makes proclamations or instructions, and they are wrong, about the end-times,  blood, personal integrity, sex between married couples, or any other issue (and they pretend to be experts on every subject imaginable...)  .... they have historically destroyed MILLIONS of lives... and when they are wrong ... THEY PAY NO PRICE WHATSOEVER.

I weep for all those who have been chased away from the Truth ... because the GB is obsessed with absolute drivel, self-aggrandizement, and on the ground ... where the "rubber meets the road", have completely negated their personal accountability, and Justice and Mercy

If I am wrong, I may die, but I can only be killed ONE TIME ... and I do not drag ten or a hundred thousand with me.  

Or chase a million with conscience away.

I alone will pay the price of being wrong.

 

You should get a standing ovation for this comment. However are you still a JW ? I honestly can't remember what you've told us. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

guess

Romans 14:12, 2 Corinthians 5:10

 

Or will it be too difficult? ?

It's a NON-ANSWER.

Can you think for yourself, or just giggle for no reason?

[JOHN BUTLER]

15 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Fair enough. Who is drawing the inference since 1969? What was the Watchtower really conveying and expectation for the year 1975? The submissions don't draw that distinction. Where is our responsibility to understand, and when we don't, what does the society asks us to do? Is it so different from that crazy witness in Canada a month ago? 

When does the truth start being a hoax?

Maybe the JW Org / GB / Watchtower have always been a hoax, and never been the truth. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You should get a standing ovation for this comment. However are you still a JW ? I honestly can't remember what you've told us. 

I only claim to be a Barbarian interested in Justice and Mercy ..... but the best way to get it is serving Jehovah God.

It's like when R2-D2, C3PO, Luke, and Obi-Wan Kanobe, stopped their speeder on a cliff overlooking Mos Isley Spaceport, and Obi-Wan said (paraphrased) "Never has there been a more wretched hive of scum, and villany"

Jehovah's Witnesses, warts and all, in reality ... are the ONLY game in town.

Drivel and incompetence and greed, no matter how you dress it up, is still drivel, and incompetence, and greed ... HOWEVER ... the Truth, no matter how you dishonor it by being a standard big ugly bag of mostly water, as we all are ... including EVERYBODY in the Governing Body, as well as you and me .. is still the TRUTH.

I was baptized before 1985,  before the oath of allegiance was changed to include the Corporation structure.

Whether or not I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses is a matter of debate.

I think I am.

I hope God agrees.

It depends on who you ask.

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

3 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Galatians, 6:7

Does it matter, what we sow shall we reap. Does this mean we have died in God's heart?

 

 

Where there is life there is hope, and ALL things are possible with God. 

I would say being on here having discussion, if our intentions are good, keeps our minds away from wicked things. Therefore I feel there is still hope for all of us. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

4 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I only claim to be a Barbarian interested in Justice and Mercy ..... but the best way to get it is serving Jehovah God.

It's like when R2-D2, Luke, and Obi-Wan Kanobe, stopped their speeder on a cliff overlooking Mos Isley Spaceport, and Obi-Wan said (paraphrased) "Never has there been a more wretched hive of scum, and villany"

Jehovah's Witnesses, warts and all, in reality ... are the ONLY game in town.

Drivel and incompetence and greed, no matter how you dress it up, is still drivel, and incompetence, and greed ... HOWEVER ... the Truth, no matter how you dishonor it by being a standard big ugly bag of mostly water, as we all are ... including EVERYBODY in the Governing Body, as well as you and me .. is still the TRUTH.

I was baptized before 1985,  before the oath of allegiance was changed to include the Corporation structure.

Whether or not I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses is a matter of debate.

I think I am.

I hope God agrees.

It depends on who you ask.

 

 

J T you have a strange but funny sense of humour. But you don't make any sense to me. 

You more or less say that everything about the organisation is wrong, but you are sticking with it anyway.

Now, if i had a car that i really liked and it had been reliable for years, then suddenly the engine blew up.  I would replace the engine. But if the car was a wreck and kept going wrong and was dangerous, then the engine blew up, I'd scrap it and get a better car. 

In your version there are no other cars available, so the one and only car would need to be put right and used. 

But with the JW Org, the GB don't want the Org put right. You have said it, the GB want to be the only bosses and run it their way.  So how can you approve an organisation that brings Jehovah's name into disrepute ?  They DO NOT bring praise to Jehovah, they bring shame. They do not even protect their own congregants.     They do not show Love or Mercy.     So, in what way are they even serving God ?  Making God's name known just to shame it . 

The TRUTH is not the JW Org, it is Jesus Christ and God's written word.  John 14 v 6

 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

There is the TRUTH.  Unfortunately you seem to be stuck in that rut where the JW Org talk about being 'in the truth'. Being in the truth is surely serving God through Jesus Christ, NOT being a JW'