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Srecko Sostar

At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?

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2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

we can see no claim of inspired prophets, anywhere, whatsoever.

who sees see what is not possible to see :)))

For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

"inspired"

"motivated"

"carried along by"

:))

At least four-five spirits are in existence and have influence:

 1)JHVH spirit   2)Jesus spirit   3) Holy spirit    4) Devil spirit    5))Human spirit   

So, we are living in a World/Worlds with so many INSPIRATION and INSPIRED persons :))))

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52 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

who sees see what is not possible to see :)))

For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

"inspired"

"motivated"

"carried along by"

:))

At least four-five spirits are in existence and have influence:

 1)JHVH spirit   2)Jesus spirit   3) Holy spirit    4) Devil spirit    5))Human spirit   

So, we are living in a World/Worlds with so many INSPIRATION and INSPIRED persons :))))

I'm asking you for a claim on their word - not mental gymnastics.

Example would be, everyone knows the Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower have stated, even made claim to say that they are the one true religion, and anyone can bring up them quoting this claim. I am asking you for the claim of inspired prophets, but you are tap dancing around what is being asked and the sheer unawareness of a prophet and inspired prophet differences.

But here we see I am asking you for bread, but you continue to hand over to me biscuits, and clearly I rather have bread, even asked you for bread, never once I asked you for biscuits, but that is all you continue to give.

To this shall remain unfounded for no Anti-Trinitarian will ever make such a claim, and alas you and Witness show yourself to be fruitless, once again. Perhaps next time use something that is actually said for - it did not stop you before.

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1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

Was that a qoute from a Watchtower? 

It is a quote from the source used by Witness, John Butler and Srecko Sostar whereas they are using the first half of the paragraph, showing an obvious disregard for the second half that is a self-refutation of what they are conveying.

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

If so I have several objections. The book of Revelation sternly warns about the mark of the beast, but WT org pays very little attention to that and downplays the matter as just a symbolic mark of the beast. While the Revelation clearly points out that this "mark of the beast" will be very real. The Revelation says that you will not be able to buy or sell without that mark during a specific time period of 42 months. The WT org is doing nothing to inform JWs how to materially survive during that time period. That is because they insist that the mark of the beast is only symbolic. And that this period of 42 months has nothing to do with our life because it happened 100 years ago.

Granted with what most of them have been saying, they are well aware, the only example I can give is the Arab JW who had debated before due to some Agnostic's involvement a while back. Moreover, the actual threat from Babylon they are aware of, an example would be what went down in a span of a few years to now.

That being said we all should be very vigilant and careful of the real enemy, for one seeks security, the other seeks peace, and they want to put all forms of government and religion, even education into one, for you and everyone else here knows that this is indeed a problem.

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

That is really a tricky way to divert attention from the prophesies. But I think the GB is blind in this aspect. And what Jesus said happens once again: A blind guides a blind. And that will have consequences. That will lead to trouble. That is why there will be a world wide persecution and a time of great tribulation.

The Persecution is very subtle, mainly with the fact of 2 major factions going at it in the realm of government and politics, for everyone's eyes is on Israel, other than their allies.

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

But there will be a literal or even several literal wildernesses to flee to.

Well this can already be learned from our Syranic Christian counterparts and what they had adhered. Such is slowly taking place in the US and the decline of Christendom is evident, but not as violent and or outlandishly bloody compared to most.

Until the end times and tribulations increases, we are to endure, remain vigilant, be aware, be careful of whom is actually on our side and who isn't.

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22 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

But here we see I am asking you for bread, but you continue to hand over to me biscuits, and clearly I rather have bread, even asked you for bread, never once I asked you for biscuits, but that is all you continue to give.

:)))))))) believe me, biscuits are better for you .... in this situation.  

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1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

:)))))))) believe me, biscuits are better for you .... in this situation.  

I get fed up with offering him either, He's never satisfied whatever you give him. 

A Unitarian that loves the JW Org it seems, by the things he writes anyway. 

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Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

:)))))))) believe me, biscuits are better for you .... in this situation.  

This just points to the fact that you are in error for saying such persons made a claim of which is unfounded.

Keep this in mind, it is unheard of, even alien, for a Anti/Non-Trinitarian to claim being inspired prophets. Their church may be prophet-like and they act as prophets to some degree, but never are they called or act as though inspired prophets like in bible times. The only people who claim to be inspired prophets are those who believe they receive revelation from other sources, some from even angels (check the list of those that had left Restorationism behind) and the Bible speaks against such things as accursed in Galatians 1.

So take that into account.

Not a fan of biscuits either, but next time if the claim actually exist and someone is asking of you this actual claim - bring it up this time.

That being said, they never made such a claim even back in the 1880s.

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Just now, JOHN BUTLER said:

I get fed up with offering him either, He's never satisfied whatever you give him. 

A Unitarian that loves the JW Org it seems, by the things he writes anyway. 

I am a Biblical Unitarian, be more specific. If someone speaks in error of someone else's Christology, I will correct them, nothing more.

I asked all of you for an actual claim of which you profess to be true, if you know of it why make it this difficult to bring up such claim?

If it does not exist, it should not be noted as true, therefore, what he professes is unfounded.

 

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21 hours ago, Baruq JW said:

how we can recognise the evil slave:  "he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards"....we can understand that all the leadership (from Papacy to Governing Body) are beating the flock.

No. This is a reference to the Christian disciple-making activity. The evil slave says: “You see, I was in fear of you, because you are a harsh man; you take what you did not deposit and you reap what you did not sow.”

What is he saying to the Lord but: “You want disciples? Get off your rear end and make them yourself!” He has no interest in joining in any public effort to preach. His counterpart today masks his reason with complaints about direction and governance in the congregation, as he attempts to undermine the work of those who have stayed the course. 

 

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7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Seems to me you cannot handle the real truth. That is you own problem, you have to deal with it yourself.

You're on the run John I'm afraid. You seem scared of the real truth, and you're hiding from your responsibilities behind this quixotic crusade. Have a look at the Jonah video again. It might unlock something. ?

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10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. This is a reference to the Christian disciple-making activity. The evil slave says: “You see, I was in fear of you, because you are a harsh man; you take what you did not deposit and you reap what you did not sow.”

What is he saying to the Lord but: “You want disciples? Get off your rear end and make them yourself!” He has no interest in joining in any public effort to preach. His counterpart today masks his reason with complaints about direction and governance in the congregation, as he attempts to undermine the work of those who have stayed the course. 

 

This is what the scripture say at  Matthew 24 from v 48  Are you arguing with scripture ? 

48  “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50  the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,

    Hello guest!
 51  and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be."

This refers to your Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing to do with genuine people that can see the disgusting things going on in the JW Org and make positive reference to it all. You seem to have a problem with peaceful and purposeful protests, and complaints about mistreatment of themselves and others within the JW Org.  So be it, the truth hurt me when i first found out about it all. 

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9 hours ago, Outta Here said:

You're on the run John I'm afraid. You seem scared of the real truth, and you're hiding from your responsibilities behind this quixotic crusade. Have a look at the Jonah video again. It might unlock something. ?

Actually I am facing up to my responsibilities more that most JW's that remains in the Org. I'm making it known how disgusting the GB and the JW Org is right now. 

Plus, on here and elsewhere, I'm learning 'new truth' about the lies and deceit the Governing Body have used to mislead people.  

My eyes have been opened wide to the rotten dictatorship of the GB. I think they will be removed, it's just a matter of time.  Matthew 24 v 48 through 51. 

I'm scared of nothing because if i am totally wrong I feel God will forgive me. Take for example Saul that became the Apostle Paul. Saul thought he was serving God but Jesus Christ showed Saul the right way. So, if i am totally wrong then I have hope in God that His Christ will guide me to the right way. However at the moment I feel i am doing what God wants me to do. 

Please be aware however, i do not want the JW Org to be destroyed. I want it to be made clean by God through Jesus Christ. 

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John, instead of focusing on Watchtower faults, do not you think it would be more beneficial to use that energy in the study of the Word of God? After all, you can not fight against windmills. (I am sure that you actually study, but the time you spend on research on Watchtower can be use better, I think)

Me too at the beginning I was very critical, but I realise now that it is a waste of time. Moreover, you will never succeed in convincing a witness because he is completely under the control of the Governing Body.

 

Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God.

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and he starts to beat his fellow slaves ... This refers to your Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Few comments could be more obtuse than this.

Nobody thinks that the Master is coming any second now more than the Governing Body.

Likely you have complained about that on other threads.

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@JOHN BUTLER He isn't wrong. The Watchtower has never made any sort of claims of being an inspired prophet, and there's information to even further back that up. You don't have to like us Jehovah's Witnesses to realize that. What I do find funny is that you said you dont judge or assume things. Now look at you.

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nobody thinks that the Master is coming any second now more than the Governing Body.

Did not Jesus come back in 1919, when he inspected his house and appointed the FDS?

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3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER He isn't wrong. The Watchtower has never made any sort of claims of being an inspired prophet, and there's information to even further back that up. You don't have to like us Jehovah's Witnesses to realize that. What I do find funny is that you said you dont judge or assume things. Now look at you.

And that is the problem. I told witness before as to you cannot twist one's words to make it seem they make the claim of inspired prophets, and when asked, he did not deliver, to Butler, he did not deliver, to Srecko, he did not deliver.

So the problem now is this whole inspired prophet claim was built on lies, granted that no credible claim has been made by the WT, nor as it ever been made since their early days as Bible Students. To add more fuel to the fire, the claim of inspired prophet is very unlikely to be called by Non-Trinitarians.

So this alone should tell you, why would one commit to claim when it is clear slander?

 

Anyone can claim to be a prophet of a prophet-like community, but no one would give claim to being or is one of inspired prophets - not even Muslims would play that card.

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4 hours ago, Baruq JW said:

Did not Jesus come back in 1919, when he inspected his house and appointed the FDS?

There you have it, then!

Not only is the return of the Lord just around the corner, it is clear done and gone per this understanding. Either way, my point stands: that John is clearly smoking something if he if likens the Governing Body to ones complaining that the Master is delaying.

Will this understanding of the early twentieth century stand the test of time? We will see. It's all very well to be second-guessing and sniping those taking the lead if it is in addition to participating in the disciple gathering activity Christ commanded. Hopefully, that is the case with you.

Far more often, though, such pontificating is instead of participation, with the ones carrying on so imagining they are discernment personified.

One can always go join someone else's preaching campaign. I hear that the Independence Day Church just translated their website into Pig Latin.

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example 1) "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a prophetlike organization, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."Watchtower 1964 Oct 1 p.601

example 2) "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? 
IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" 
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? 
... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. 
... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom."Watchtower 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'

example 3) "commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62

 

Prophecy

Definition: An inspired message; a revelation of the divine will and purpose. Prophecy may be a prediction of something to come, inspired moral teaching, or an expression of a divine command or judgment. -Reasoning book

 

False Prophets

Definition: Individuals and organizations proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that do not originate with the true God and are not in harmony with his revealed will. - Reasoning book

 

If Someone Says—

‘My minister said that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the false prophets’

You might reply: ‘May I ask, Did he show you anything in the Bible that describes what we believe or do and that says people of that sort would be false prophets? . . . May I show you how the Bible describes false prophets? (Then use one or more of the points outlined on 

    Hello guest!
.)’

Or you could say: ‘I’m sure you’ll agree that specific evidence should back up such a serious charge. Did your minister mention any specific examples? (If householder refers to some claimed “predictions” that did not come to pass, use material on 

    Hello guest!
, and from the 
    Hello guest!
.)’

Another possibility: ‘I’m sure that if someone accused you of something similar, you would welcome the opportunity at least to explain your position or point of view, wouldn’t you? . . . So may I show you from the Bible . . . ?’

True prophets and the false can be recognized by the fruitage manifest in their lives and the lives of those who follow them - Reasoning book

Here we can see how WT never clearly making statement how JW organization is not prophet-like organization or God's mouthpiece organization. GB are not rejecting existence of true prophets in this modern times.  They only rejecting accusations about claims how they, GB and JW members are viewed as FALSE prophets. WT reject only word FALSE in connection to prophets. 

By quoted WT articles JW organization stand on quiet and shy claim that JW are "prophets" (of some sort), because they manifest fruitage in their lives, because JW revealing divine will and purpose, because JW spreading inspired moral teaching, because JW announcing divine command or judgment. This specific Organized worldwide activity support self vision on own importance in this role as "prophet-like" agents.

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@Srecko Sostar Nothing of which you posted even states the claim of inspired prophet. The constant flailing coupled with the rehashing of what was already posted does not do much in your favor.

 

Therefore, the claim of inspired prophet remains unfounded. You wouldn't catch a Non-Trinitarian say they are an inspired prophet anywhere.

Also it shows you clearly do not know the difference between a prophet and an inspired prophet - that is rather telling. That alone tells you were you sit in regards to Spiritual Wisdom.

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7 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER He isn't wrong. The Watchtower has never made any sort of claims of being an inspired prophet, and there's information to even further back that up. You don't have to like us Jehovah's Witnesses to realize that. What I do find funny is that you said you dont judge or assume things. Now look at you.

OK. show me exactly where I have said the Watchtower is an inspired prophet ?  I don't actually use the W/t as an example. I usually say  the GB and JW Org.

And who isn't wrong ?  If you mean S. M. then one of his faults is that he lumps us all together, Srecko, me and others.  If Srecko says something that SM doesn't agree with then SM on many occasions includes me in his reply. 

Please be 100% sure and have proof when you accuse me of saying / writing something. 

As for my opinions about the GB and the Organisation as a whole then i make true statements. If you call that judging ok so be it.

 

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7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Few comments could be more obtuse than this.

Nobody thinks that the Master is coming any second now more than the Governing Body.

Likely you have complained about that on other threads.

Really ? They thought 1914, and 1975, so surely they think he is late now :) 

 

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The problem with the GB is that they don't approve anointed or not anointed JWs to come with alternative explanations to Bible verses. You just have to accept as JW the explanations GB provides how silly or stupid they sound. And you can not question a particular GB explanation. If you do that you are not allowed to be a part of the JW congregation any more.

Why that? I remember it was explained as if you don't trust GB, then you don't trust God or Jesus.

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1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

The problem with the GB is that they don't approve anointed or not anointed JWs to come with alternative explanations to Bible verses. You just have to accept as JW the explanations GB provides how silly or stupid they sound. And you can not question a particular GB explanation. If you do that you are not allowed to be a part of the JW congregation any more.

Why that? I remember it was explained as if you don't trust GB, then you don't trust God or Jesus.

Exactly right. And that is called dictatorship. Those men, 8 of them now, put themselves in power as the Faithful and Discreet slave. And no one (in their opinion) is allowed to have a different opinion to theirs. If you voice a different opinion you will disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'.  My own brother in an Elder and he confirms that this is the reason they use to remove people. 

The GB pretend they have the only route to God, whereas the bible tells us for sure that Jesus Christ is the one that is the 'doorway' between us and God. Proof of that being, we pray to God through Jesus Christ.  John 14 v  Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 

 

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8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

And that is the problem. I told witness before as to you cannot twist one's words to make it seem they make the claim of inspired prophets, and when asked, he did not deliver, to Butler, he did not deliver, to Srecko, he did not deliver.

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.

For you, JWs!:

Reasoning Book:

 "False Prophets 
Individuals and organizations (1) 
proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132

Please continue:

“At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)

What an embarrassment for the organization. 

“The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”

Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 

JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.

"The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31

 

 

 

prophet WT.gif

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2 hours ago, Witness said:

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

I must add, being "spirit-inspired" is the result of an anointing.  Holy Spirit is poured into one's heart.  Rom 5:5  It is alive and active and "inspires" one to understand Christ's truths. 2 John 2:2; 1 John 2:20,27  Holy Spirit "inspires" others to recognize truth when they hear it from one Jesus' sends. John 13:20   For the GB to claim they are not inspired also shows they no longer have Holy Spirit within them, if anointed. 2 Tim 3:5  They are ignorant of its power, but are well versed in "inspiration" coming from a demonic spirit.  This is how lies are generated and lies are laced through the teachings of the organization.   Their is no other word for false/failed doctrine, but "lies".   And lies have no origin in Christ, who is only light.  1 John 1:6;

Woe to those who call evil good
    and good evil,
who put darkness for light
    and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
    and sweet for bitter.

21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
    and clever in their own sight.  Isa 5:20-21

"Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."  John 15:4

 

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11 hours ago, Witness said:

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.

For you, JWs!:

Reasoning Book:

 "False Prophets 
Individuals and organizations (1) 
proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132

Please continue:

“At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)

What an embarrassment for the organization. 

“The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”

Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 

JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.

"The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31

 

 

 

prophet WT.gif

Fantastic comment. But SM won't like it ofcourse :( 

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17 hours ago, Witness said:

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

And yet when it was coined you were quick to bring up the article that proved nothing of what was stated, moreover, you spoke of demonic inspiration. You had already pointed out the article before, pulling these 2 quotes to which Butler's reaction in agreement of same with Srecko, who in turn also posted this information:

  • Wt. 1964/10/1 - "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a PROPHETLIKE ORGANIZATION, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."
  • Wt. 972/4/1 -  "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" 

Which came after I stated the following: this is where you are twisting this, they never admit to being inspired prophets, and I am sure all the facts provided to you several times before thus proofs this point.

They admit to and made claim to simply being human, as with all of us, us of mankind, we are prone to making nonessential mistakes and errors at times, therefore not being an inspired prophet. They believe that, as a whole, as a community, and over the long term, has the guidance of Holy Spirit, but this does not mean that every step taken, every thought that comes to mind, every  word said and or uttered of every member of their church will be perfect in these End Times. Early Christians, who were obviously guided by Holy Spirit, admitted as much about themselves. And yet these it is not unknown to anyone that today's Christians, imperfect as they may be, can profess about prophets who are indeed inspired, such ones like Jeremiah, who was indeed an inspired prophets of God to be far more correct than you, me and even that of Scholars.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.

There is a clear distinction between a prophet who is inspired and a normal prophet. The most obvious different is a prophet who proclaims and ministers, one who is inspired, on the other side of the spectrum, a prophet who proclaims and ministers, who is spirit led. For Prophets such as Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, even Agabus were all inspired and infallible. Christians today, who are prophets, of any kind are not inspired and are not infallible and such makes up the majority of Non-Trinitarians today, even to our counterparts who are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Us Christians are Spirit led prophets, the ability to spread the gospel truth and the truth about the Messianic Age, for this is something of which he both have in common.

An inspired prophet possesses the miraculous gift of prophesy, inspired and infallible utterance and predictions, as proof they are having the Holy Spirit, of which we can see with Elijah and Elisha - you also already mentioned Moses, who is an inspired Prophet who does indeed have the miraculous gifts. For this is 1 of 9 miraculous gifts that is of the spirit, manifestations of the spirit and is indeed infallible as can be read in the Scriptures itself 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, Luke 4:18 and Romans 3:1, 2 for example.

A normal, Spirit led Prophet who is clearly not inspired and not infallible have the gifts of the spirit regarding prophesying. It is regarded as dominant, the ability for one to profess in spreading the good news gospel of the Kingdom and the Messianic Age of the coming Christ, such of which gives evidence of the holy spirit's role as seen in Scripture, Matthew 24:14, Luke 4:18, Acts 2:18, 19 and Romans 12:6-8. Such ones with spiritual gifts have that is of what is cultivated, or cultivated gifts as some would say.

An inspired prophet's message is inspired, like that of a breathe of God himself, therefore infallible. God is the primary source of the message and the author of the message granted the Word came from him. The written work itself in it's original form is both sacred and inspired. As the verses,

  • 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

For prophets inspired by God have verbal communication through even that of angels, visions that puts forth God's message to those who hear it, they have dreams or night visions that is seen by them even in their sleep, and can convey a message even by means of a trance, other times through songs of praise that contribute to a prophet receiving communication that is divine (Exodus 9:1; Amos 3:3-8; Jonah 3:1, 2)

A prophet that isn't inspired and is not infallible in the message knows isn't the author of anything other than the Bible, they recognize that what they produce is of their own design but remain faithful to the Scriptures in of itself, this includes ALL Bible Translations because none of the translators or transliteratiors are not inspired, the very reason that most, if not all, tend to make revisions after revisions, example like you not knowing (but have used already) what the TR 1245 is and unaware that all translations, even that of JWs, have been revised, thus omitting anything related to the TR 1245, hence my clear view and adherence on Textual Criticism.

A not inspired prophet, or in this case, a normal prophet is encouraged by God's Word, if not, even moved by it. They show and express a genuine love for God and are moved to take action, just as those of old and our church fathers have. They are guided by God by means of influence and thinking, and our speech as with actions by means of the power of His Spirit and His Word, as can be evident by Matthew 13:11, 24:14.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

Reasoning Book:

 "False Prophets 
Individuals and organizations (1) 
proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132

Please continue:

“At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)

This was answered elsewhere and I will quote what was said about this, as the quote states:

Quote

Opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses have occasionally made references (most of the details being incorrect) to J. F. Rutherford and "Beth - Sarim" in an attempt to discredit the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. A look at the context and actual records would be beneficial: 

The 1975 Year Book tells us that

"Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment during 1918-1919 because of his faithfulness to Jehovah. Thereafter he had only one good lung. It was virtually impossible for him to remain in Brooklyn, New York, during the winter and still carry out his duties as the Society's president. In the 1920's he went to San Diego under a doctor's treatment. The climate there was exceptionally good and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible in San Diego. That is what Rutherford did ultimately.

"In time, a direct contribution was made for the purpose of constructing a house in San Diego for Brother Rutherford's use. It was not built at the expense of the Watch Tower Society. Concerning this property, the 1939 book Salvation stated: `At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929, there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth-Sarim.'" - p. 194.

By November of 1941 Brother Rutherford's condition compelled him to return to Beth-Sarim for his final illness. He died there January 8, 1942.


However, the Salvation book (written by Brother Rutherford) quoted above goes on to say:

"The Hebrew words `Beth Sarim' mean `House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth-Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be for ever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth. .... and if and when the princes do return and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth-Sarim." - p.311.

Apparently Brother Rutherford had earlier written that he expected the return of these princes in the year 1925. I don't have a copy of that, but I see no reason to doubt it. Note, however, that Beth-Sarim wasn't built until 1929.

Money had been contributed for the specific purpose of "constructing a house in San Diego for Brother Rutherford's use" during his illnesses. The money, of course, could not be legally (or morally) used for any other purpose.

It's not surprising that in his book Brother Rutherford didn't care to detail these conditions which would have necessarily put his physical illnesses on public display. His decision to also dedicate this ground and building to those princes whom he truly expected to soon return is certainly understandable.

The fact that the princes did not return as soon as he expected was obvious even before Beth-Sarim was even built and certainly does not make Brother Rutherford a False Prophet.

    Hello guest!

 

17 hours ago, Witness said:

Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 

It is not being of narrow minded, a narrow minded person will profess God sent Satan to the Egyptians, a person who does the research and understand the situation will never profess such a claim, let alone who who remains unaware of God's Purpose and Will, let alone what his own Son commissioned to Christians to follow.

The truth of the matter is they never claimed to be an inspired prophet and anyone who does the research can see that and it has been said, by them since the early 1880s.

That being said, I am well aware of who the False Prophets represent, who is of Babylon the Great granted I have been researching this for the longest time, what happened in various parts of the US and the World, I am aware of Lucis Trust and a list of other things that has been on a crusade of some sort to dismantle Christianity, of which is evident today. I am also aware of the E.I.I. the real enemy to me, to you, to John and even the JWs; and the difference between you and me is I do not take up conspiracy as truth, something you have been refuted on before.

If they are indeed lead to darkness and death, what of the current Jehovah's Witnesses here? Same community, same faith does not equate to all of them being 100% the same. you have some in the US that differ from each other, other elsewhere in France who differ, vice versa for other parts of the world. Every and each of them have what makes them happy, what makes them sad, even angry, what they like/dislike, what problems they have, what issues they have with themselves and or others, even shortcomings, the list goes on. Clearly none of them are shrouded in darkness, clearly none of them are advocates of death, for if they were, they clearly would not be here right now. And to subject a whole group, to demonize and attack them for what their community is all about due to the actions of a single person or a few is absurd, and you know that is right but you profess to the notion anyway.

My only issue is conspiracy and falsehood, at least next time do not make things one sided and take information from both sides which leads you to what is true and what is false, and in this case, no claim of being an inspired prophets has ever been made by them, no claim of inspiration has never been made by any current Restorationist who understand their apostolic roots, no Non-Trinitarian has ever and will never make the claim of being an inspired prophet - at all.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.

Christians are like prophets even act as prophets. But they are not inspired prophets like examples we see in the Bible. The irony here is other sources are capable to make known, even recognize the differences in a Prophet who is inspired and infallible and a Prophet who is not inspired and not infallible.

I had already mention the 1972 response from you and Srecko. Most people, including you, who is trying to attack the Jehovah's Witnesses and profess to claim that you follow of them being false prophet will often use the April 1,1972 book by them, and they, indulging you, as it as proof regarding a prophet who is inspired and infallible. This is chosen because, in spite of a number of things, even in the face of evidence, it is the only one such ones like yourself they can find where it seems to say that Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves as inspired prophets. But like I said before, they never made the claim at all, for if they had indeed made the claim clearly the response would have been different, but in reality, what I say to you is the truth of the mater and unlike you I am not weaving things as you have done now and before.

Further evidence even tells you that in the 1880s-1890s that they, and I quote [We have not the gift of prophecy] and [Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible] Which is both indeed true because today's Christians are not like inspired and infallible prophets of old, moreover, the only thing inspired when it comes to the message is God's Word, spoken through the bible, and the Bible was just a translation of God's message, but God's Word is sacred and infallible.

An even older claim, 1870s

[We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,—in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth.... It is our duty to "prove all things."—by the unerring Word,—"and hold fast to that which is good]

But as we can see, again I profess, that they never really claim to be an inspired prophet, to add more fuel to the fire, that article from their book does not bring forth claim of an inspired prophet, but rather, what Christians consider themselves to day, just simply prophets who profess the gospel and speak of coming End Times and Tribulations, as with the Messianic Age.

 

Another factor is those who are also neutral with the Watchtower and understand the history of other faiths, including the one professed by the Watchtower even make this known:

    • Hello guest!
    • Hello guest!

 

17 hours ago, Witness said:

"The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31

Do not add a quote into the text you are speaking about, for if you have, do so in a separate response after mentioning the verse, otherwise this is a total disrespect to the verse of which you are conveying, and it falls under Deuteronomy 4:2 regarding adding to God's Word.

The verse says this

  • Jeremiah 5:31 - the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?

It is a cross-references to Jeremiah 14:14, Lamentations 2:14; Ezekiel 13:6 Isaiah, 30:10 and John 3:19.

A prophet, Christians today profess the good news gospel, they profess the Messianic Age and they give warning of God's Day being near. Such ones are spirit led and they take example of actual inspired and infallible prophets of old, and they recognize that they, today themselves, are not inspired and infallible and would never make that claim to be such.

A false prophet will speak of such ones as them claiming to be inspired, to which they are not, reasons so because they seek to slander someone, even call them demonic. They will go above and beyond when there is unfounded prophet of their claim. A honest and reasonable man will see for themselves what is being spoken of as either true or false.

For just like in Prophet Jeremiah’s day, many people chose to remain to do things that is not of God while others do the opposite. For such ones they love slander and dishonesty, as with anything brazen under the sun, something of which that is not different in our day.

So who is the slanderer in this sense in this claim of inspired prophet claims - you or them?

14 hours ago, Witness said:

I must add, being "spirit-inspired" is the result of an anointing.  Holy Spirit is poured into one's heart.  Rom 5:5  It is alive and active and "inspires" one to understand Christ's truths. 2 John 2:2; 1 John 2:20,27  Holy Spirit "inspires" others to recognize truth when they hear it from one Jesus' sends. John 13:20   For the GB to claim they are not inspired also shows they no longer have Holy Spirit within them, if anointed. 2 Tim 3:5  They are ignorant of its power, but are well versed in "inspiration" coming from a demonic spirit.  This is how lies are generated and lies are laced through the teachings of the organization.   Their is no other word for false/failed doctrine, but "lies".   And lies have no origin in Christ, who is only light.  1 John 1:6;

Then what is it that is stopping you from understanding a prophet who is not inspired and not infallible compared to a prophet who is inspired and infallible?

By definition, you yourself is also a Prophet, clearly not inspired, clearly not infallible, this also goes for all JWs, even to us Biblical Unitarians. Non-Trinitarians are not inspired nor are they infallible nor are they ignorant of the holy spirit because know what it means to be spirit led, they know what the spiritual gifts entail regarding a prophet, be it a sole person or those who make up a group.

And this claim of yours, demonic spirit one should not be too quick to call someone of demonic influence.

Understand the difference next time, and I did see where you pulled that information, the same source that is making claim to an inspired prophet when evidence shows this isn't the case.

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Before I was baptized I thought that you can always question every JW doctrine and that the Watchtower will always have scripturaly based answers for their doctrines. So I felt safe to be baptized. But I did not know that after you are baptized you have no more right to question the truthfulness of any doctine. And if you don't understand their explanation you have to comply anyway. 

If I had known that the WT-organization works like that, I doubt I had been baptized. 

To the contrary I heard the circuit overseer explain how honest and sincere the WT organization is. He claimed in a speech that if a person finds a fault in WT doctine and can show it from the Bible, then absolutely the WT organization will change the doctrine. 

It was with this mind I was baptized. But it became evident that that is not how the WT org works. When I had found scriptural evidence against some WT doctrines I wanted to show my elders. They came to my place, but they refused to look at my findings. They refused to look at the scriptures I wanted to show them. They were not going to examine the scriptures. I was amazed, what was going on? Now I understand that elders act according to WT procedures. They don't think about what is right or true. The only thing that matters to them is to obey the GB. The Bible and the truth comes always on the second place. 

That is the moment when the truth has ceased to be the truth. 

Actually the elders even openly at the meerings said that the unity is more important than the truth. They justify that with saying that Jehovah will anyway later correct everything.

But where will the elders and GB be when Jehovah corrects what it wrong? They might as well find themselves in trouble. 

As Bible-history shows, those who opposed truth tellers in the past got in trouble.

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7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

A false prophet will speak of such ones as them claiming to be inspired, to which they are not, reasons so because they seek to slander someone, even call them demonic. They will go above and beyond when there is unfounded prophet of their claim. A honest and reasonable man will see for themselves what is being spoken of as either true or false.

For just like in Prophet Jeremiah’s day, many people chose to remain to do things that is not of God while others do the opposite. For such ones they love slander and dishonesty, as with anything brazen under the sun, something of which that is not different in our day.

So who is the slanderer in this sense in this claim of inspired prophet claims - you or them?

 

2 hours ago, Kosonen said:

They don't think about what is right or true. The only thing that matters to them is to obey the GB. The Bible and the truth comes always on the second place. 

That is the moment when the truth has ceased to be the truth. 

Actually the elders even openly at the meerings said that the unity is more important than the truth. They justify that with saying that Jehovah will anyway later correct everything.

But where will the elders and GB be when Jehovah corrects what it wrong? They might as well find themselves in trouble. 

Multiply Kosonen’s experience hundreds of times over, and you, SM, will see why the GB’s apparent contrite, humble words that they are not inspired,and can ( I say “prone” to) err in doctrine…..IS A BIG DEAL. 

You have spent much time covering inspired prophets vs. uninspired prophets.  As I said, among His people, God doesn’t make a distinction.  He calls His prophets, “prophets”.  If they “proclaim” a message in His name and it doesn’t come true, He refers to them as “false prophets”.   Deut 18:20-22; Matt 7:15-20

Straight and simple. 

Are you neglecting the weightier matters of the law of Christ: justice and mercy and faith, as the GB and elder body have?

“These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.”

The organization’s leadership are blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 

Look at the broader picture, SM, and the damage done to those who follow blind, empty teachings, that leaves one in the DARK.   Matt 23:23,24; 1 John 1:5

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kosonen said:

And if you don't understand their explanation you have to comply anyway. 

No. All you have to do is refrain from campaigning against them. 

You can cheerlead if you want. Many brothers do. But you certainly don't have to. 

 

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23 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. All you have to do is refrain from campaigning against them. 

You can cheerlead if you want. Many brothers do. But you certainly don't have to. 

I am a firm believer that Good will EVENTUALLY win out over evil .... always.

But it may take a forest of slaves, a mountain of corpses, and oceans of blood before that happens..

The ONLY thing necessary for evil to always win, is good men to accept the status quo ... and do nothing.

...and it usually takes a hundred years of tyranny for the sleeping giants to awaken.

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The ONLY thing necessary for evil to always win, is good men to accept the status quo ... and do nothing.

There is something about the inability to distinguish between what is important and what is not that I will never understand. It is closely associated with the inability to distinguish between the traffic cop's direction about best motoring from the orders of Hitler to gas millions.

If you are going to use the grandiose terminology that you do, use it over things deserving of it.

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TTH:

These are general principles that ALWAYS must be used to test interactions between humans.  If you don't ... like being on a muddy steep slope to the edge of a cliff, we may loose our footing and find ourselves having a wonderful ride down that slippery slope ... to the hard rocks at the bottom of the cliff.

It's one thing to have that wild ride by accident, or misadventure, and be broken up or killed by your own devices .... it is quite another to killed or broken up because someone speaking as a declared Watchman over your soul gives you bad advice, and it is because of that bad advice you slide, and fall to your peril.

The price of Liberty and Freedom depends on each individual maintaining eternal vigilance ... and ALWAYS test the credibility of any advice we are given by ANYBODY.

When I was a young man, I was floating down the James River and came downstream to Bosher's Dam, a few miles upstream of Richmond Virginia.  There were others already on the dam, which had about four inches of water overflowing the top, and beneath the water you could see the rust spots where steel rebar had once been across the top.  The others were jumping off the dam, and some were playing below at the base, among the water and large rocks, and some were jumping off to the water below.  I asked someone what was a safe space to jump off, and he said to count seven rebar spots from the side of the dam, and it was safe. 

I took him at his word, and counted seven rust spots, and jumped off to a pool below, surfaced, and continued my float trip.  Today I would have watched, to see who ELSE jumped at that spot before I did.

I have missed death and being mangled perhaps a hundred times in my life.... by pure, dumb accident.  Not a very smart philosophy. I "lucked out" ...so far.

That same summer I went to a pool party at the Presiding Overseers house, (I forget what we used to call them back then ...) and walked into the back yard to see all my friends in the pool, talking and laughing, with their arms hooked behind them on the edge of the pool. I asked my best friend, also named Tom, how deep the water was and he said "Nine Feet".

I proceeded to the diving board, made a high bounce, and went in head first.  At nine feet deep, my custom was to do an immediate flip under water so my feet hit the pool bottom first, and I would spring to the surface like a breaching submarine.  Unfortunately the pool was a uniform three feet deep, and I landed HARD flat on my back, which knocked out my air, and I surfaced far less dramatically.

Had it NOT have been my custom to flip underwater, I would have landed on my skull, and been maimed for life, or killed.  This was about 1965.  Because I was not hurt, everybody laughed, and I laughed too.

A few years later (sometimes I am quite slow...) I was thinking about that, and realized how CLOSE I came to being severely paralyzed or killed. I have an outrageous sense of humor, but that  ceased being funny.

I added the following line to my working philosophy "Never trust anyone at face value... but ESPECIALLY your best friends, and those that apparently have your best interests at heart." 

It took me about eight years or so to firm up that philosophy, which was consolidated when that same best friend ran off with my first wife ...they were married, and she died of Cystic Fibrosis while married to him.

The Congregations were "fine" with their marriage, which I found out about later ... until I wrote detailed letters, certified mail, return receipt requested ( the "green card") to every Congregation in the Richmond area, and to the then World HQ in Brooklyn. 

At some Congregations in the Richmond area, when they announced his disfellowshipping, because he had been a Bethelite, a Pioneer, and was "Brother Watchtower". and I was a known Barbarian, and because our names sound very similar phonetically ......

....... they announced from the platforms that it was I who had been disfellowshipped.

It was then I permanently lost all the friends I had grown up with in the "Truth", but I was working in California, and did not find out until I returned home, to Richmond, Virginia.

Sometimes ... you (meaning me) just have to consistently be a horse's ass to keep from being run over by happy, well-intentioned, flower bedecked rainbow ponies ... with sharp steel hooves.

 

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4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

....... they announced from the platforms that it was I who had been disfellowshipped.

 

34 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

😱 At last....I think I am starting to understand you. That is simply outrageous.

To prevent such errors, elders should tell also date of bird and ID number, his nick name if he has such.... and of course name of mother and father of particular person....., perhaps it would not be bad idea also to give names of other family members, wife, children ... to prevent any mistakes about who they speaking about.   

:)))))))))) 

 

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To prevent such errors, elders should tell also date of bird and ID number, his nick name if he has such.... and of course name of mother and father of particular person....., perhaps it would not be bad idea also to give names of other family members, wife, children

Funny you should mention that, Sreko Sostar ... the WTB&TS is currently building a data base, called "Publishers ID",  where everything about every Jehovah's Witness on Earth is planned to be assembled ... they are working on it now, or possibly completed the database structure.

JW.org _Publisher ID_ - leaked video 1-of-4.mp4

As time goes on, of course, many Publishers will try to avoid the .BORG ... er .. .ORG knowing everything about them, and will try evasive tactics, such as assuming new names, so it may become necessary to tattoo their Publisher's I.D. Numbers on the inside of their left forearms.

Resistance will be futile.

 

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13 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Before I was baptized I thought that you can always question every JW doctrine and that the Watchtower will always have scripturaly based answers for their doctrines. So I felt safe to be baptized. But I did not know that after you are baptized you have no more right to question the truthfulness of any doctine. And if you don't understand their explanation you have to comply anyway. 

If I had known that the WT-organization works like that, I doubt I had been baptized. 

To the contrary I heard the circuit overseer explain how honest and sincere the WT organization is. He claimed in a speech that if a person finds a fault in WT doctine and can show it from the Bible, then absolutely the WT organization will change the doctrine. 

It was with this mind I was baptized. But it became evident that that is not how the WT org works. When I had found scriptural evidence against some WT doctrines I wanted to show my elders. They came to my place, but they refused to look at my findings. They refused to look at the scriptures I wanted to show them. They were not going to examine the scriptures. I was amazed, what was going on? Now I understand that elders act according to WT procedures. They don't think about what is right or true. The only thing that matters to them is to obey the GB. The Bible and the truth comes always on the second place. 

That is the moment when the truth has ceased to be the truth. 

Actually the elders even openly at the meerings said that the unity is more important than the truth. They justify that with saying that Jehovah will anyway later correct everything.

But where will the elders and GB be when Jehovah corrects what it wrong? They might as well find themselves in trouble. 

As Bible-history shows, those who opposed truth tellers in the past got in trouble.

Your comment is perfect, and so true.

When i have said these things I have been greatly criticized. You are almost saying as i have said. The Elders are only puppets for the GB.  The Elders do not want to think for themselves. They only want to keep their positions of power in the Organisation. 

And the GB and it's puppet Elders are only interested in making the JW Organisation 'look good' from the outside.

How right Jesus was when he explained to clean the inside of the bowl or dish so that the outside would also be clean. 

As a note, my wife is not baptised because she doesn't want to be controlled by the Elders or the GB.  She realised a long time ago the same things you are saying. 

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7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I asked my best friend, also named Tom, how deep the water was and he said "Nine Feet"....Unfortunately the pool was a uniform three feet deep, and I landed HARD flat on my back, which knocked out my air, and I surfaced far less dramatically.

This is the epitome of “apostate lie” and you know it!

No person named Tom would ever do such a thing! A Bill or a Bob or a Sam, maybe, but never a Tom!

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12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. All you have to do is refrain from campaigning against them. 

You can cheerlead if you want. Many brothers do. But you certainly don't have to. 

 

What rubbish you write. Complying has nothing to do with cheerleading or campaigning against. 

Complying means obeying rules laid down by others. In this case it's the GB and the puppet Elders laying down the rules for all JW's to obey.  It's quite simple OBEY or GET DISFELLOWSHIPPED.  There are no other options in the JW Org.  

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10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is something about the inability to distinguish between what is important and what is not that I will never understand. It is closely associated with the inability to distinguish between the traffic cop's direction about best motoring from the orders of Hitler to gas millions.

If you are going to use the grandiose terminology that you do, use it over things deserving of it.

Dear old Tom. It is you that cannot distinguish between what is important and what is not. 

The fact that people have probably died because of lies told by your GB and the puppet Elders. 

And the fact that your GB act like Hitler giving orders which result in disfellowshipping people, which is in fact, in the eyes of the GB, killing people spiritually, which will eventually kill them physically at Armageddon. 

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@James Thomas Rook Jr........ they announced from the platforms that it was I who had been disfellowshipped.

It was then I permanently lost all the friends I had grown up with in the "Truth", but I was working in California, and did not find out until I returned home, to Richmond, Virginia.

So would you tell me please what is your position in or out of the JW Org right now ? 

You've probs already done this but my brain just goes and all becomes so fuzzy. I'm only 69, is it dementia already ? 

 

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15 hours ago, Witness said:

Multiply Kosonen’s experience hundreds of times over, and you, SM, will see why the GB’s apparent contrite, humble words that they are not inspired,and can ( I say “prone” to) err in doctrine…..IS A BIG DEAL. 

Kosonen experience does not define the experience as all of them, for in doing so it is sheer demonizing a whole community for the actions of a few, which is a constant even outside of religion and people need to be constantly reminded as to why doing such is bad and clearly I am not a fan of such type of mentality, one of which that is very obvious around the world today whereas harassing a specific group in question, even going as far as to commit hate crimes even killing them is justified out of fear, one example regarding a school I will never forget what one woman said while disgruntled ones, influence by people with such a view, tried to make it seem the actions of a sole individual is justification to attack a whole group.

How so, when Christians today who do errors, why not say such of them when they too understand they are not inspired and not infallible? I can bring up several examples on many, even you, if need be, and I have given examples on my part on my behalf in this regard also.

That being said, you do not have to agree with them, which is understandable and evident, but to accept and even pull information from ones who make the claim of an inspired prophet when the truth of the mater is they are not, even going as far as to not know what a prophet and an inspired prophet is in difference and using that as the stone to your structure will only cause whatever you are pushing to fall. as I told you before, you stumble upon yourself.

If you actually understand the difference between a prophet and a prophet not inspired, you recognize, if you uphold the the Words from the Bible you are too a prophet one with spiritual gifts, clearly not an inspired one, which is the case with Christians today.

 

Moreover, granted the history of Non-Trinitarians also known as Anti-Trinitarians, they have made errors, but they would never, ever take to the grave with them the claim of being an inspired prophet - ever.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

You have spent much time covering inspired prophets vs. uninspired prophets.  As I said, among His people, God doesn’t make a distinction.  He calls His prophets, “prophets”.  If they “proclaim” a message in His name and it doesn’t come true, He refers to them as “false prophets”.   Deut 18:20-22; Matt 7:15-20

So where does that leave you then, Witness? A prophet (modern  Christian), you who proclaimed Orderly Worship in a different light, an accursed one, rather than the what the church itself has done as history proved evident in, in which you are clearly attacking those who uphold such Order, what of that? Was it not you who was on the opposite side adhering the Great Commission when such is a command from the Lord, Christ Jesus himself? A prophet who is mixing things around to justified his views based on opinions and emotions instead of what the Bible says, thus putting in application man's understanding of a verse and or passage, what of that? A prophet who uses a Biblical forgery to make a justification to his views when that this forgery has been debunked by the manuscript and codex evidence, what of this? Using misinformation to accuse someone of wrongdoing when even a former person of that faith gives a shattering refutation that is like that of a revelation to claims you have made, what of that?  Profess to an accursed doctrine that is alien to the church and it applied by those who do not follow any of the teachings from the Bible, what about that brief discussion? Attempted to use someone's mistake and or word against them, and quick to accuse someone for a minor unnecessary thing that they did not see and or was not aware of, what of this? Let alone you proclaiming that God allowing Satan to help in Egypt by means of a single verse, so I ask, what of you if this was the case to instantly assume someone is a false prophet?

You said it best:

15 hours ago, Witness said:

IS A BIG DEAL. 

For it we must go there, discernment and false prophets, by all means saith thy word and it shall be done.

For if I need to remind you, you were proclaiming something(s) that has never originated with the church at all. So if we are to apply the false prophet claim, it can and will be directed to you.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 - [20] But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ [21] And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— [22] when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

Matthew 7:15-20 - A Tree and Its Fruit - [15] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [16] You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. [18] A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. [19] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

So with the verses you provided and your claims mentioned above - what can someone say about you, granted Christians are prophets who profess by means of spiritual gifts and clearly not by miraculous gifts that inspired prophets have, in this regard, what can you say about yourself, who knowingly made such claims in response?

Clearly you are not one and although I tend to be strict, as I told you before, I see you as someone misguided and a small spark of hatred in you and haven't even pushed the claim you make towards your counterparts - demonic influence (especially with the verse regarding Satan doing God's bidding, according to your previous interpretation). Someone who continues to stumble and eat and believe the words of even those who speak conspiracy and someone, you, who remains ignorant of the view of early Christians and the early Church, even going as far as to seclude all of them by hold focus to one, and being clearly one-sided about it. Stand back up because as I see it, you keep on falling to the ground on to yourself (Proverbs 24:16)

That being said I suggest you think about who is a prophet and who is a false prophet because it remains in contradiction to what you have professed which, if we go by your understanding, puts you in that same category of one being a False Prophet.

Now one thing for certain, to be brief of course, in religion, a false prophet is one who falsely claims the gift of prophecy or divine inspiration, or who uses that gift for evil ends. Often, someone who is considered a "true prophet" by some people is simultaneously considered a "false prophet" by others, even within the same religion as the "prophet" in question.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Are you neglecting the weightier matters of the law of Christ: justice and mercy and faith, as the GB and elder body have?

Clearly I speak the truth in this matter and do not use books produce by them to justify a claim that is proven to be untrue, with evidence that even ranges back top the 1870s - it does not get any much clearer than that. After all you lead me to the very source of your information that even speaks of them as being inspired prophets when clearly they are not.

ALL Christians who adhere to what is true are spirit led, they are not inspired and infallible - if you truly read the Bible, you'd realize that and what position you are in as a Christian.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

The organization’s leadership are blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 

And yet they are still here, and they are clearly targets of Babylon, that is, if you are aware of everything regarding Christianity that took place from the 2000s and onward, and what went down mid-2015 to now.

People know who is on a conquest for peace. They know who is on the conquest for security. As a source of mine, Solider of God puts it, Christians who are unaware of these things, will easily be swept away by it, which such an example can be pinned on you as per our last discussions. For if Orderly Worship of the Church is vastly different from your view of what is Orderly, who's to say you yourself understand what the Kingdom is all about when you adhere to something that isn't of the Kingdom - should we take such route if need be?

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Look at the broader picture, SM, and the damage done to those who follow blind, empty teachings, that leaves one in the DARK.   Matt 23:23,24; 1 John 1:5

So what of the current JWs who are on this forum right now, the ones who also make a response to you?

Unlike you, I have enough sense to understand what is right and what isn't right, I understand where someone is coming from and I am very aware of what is a false teaching, what is accursed, what is of the church or not.

If you really want to help people know who God is, perhaps next time you would not be against what the Great Commission is all about, as per our last discussion, in doing so, you yourself put people in the Dark. As I told you before, in Bangkok, Thailand, there are people who has no idea what the bible is or who God is, some who do not even understand, as to what justice is in on your part to not spread the good news gospel and the Messianic Age? The Bible tells you to spread the message, even by means of a command, the Great Commission, why remain do the opposite when claiming to be a professes Christian, who is to spread the message?

If it is anyone who is leading people in the dark, in all honesty, it will have to be you. Jesus gave you a command, and by following the Christ, you must adhere to that command. Jesus entrusted the church also to do the same and to bind and loosen, you should be very aware of such things.

And lastly, you need to understand what the spiritual gifts are because if you do not know that Christians are like prophets for proclaiming the message, knowing they are spirit led, clearly you have to do more research and read more.

That being said, understand what a false prophet is and who does fist that category, and perhaps re-think all the other things you said previously granted you added those verses of false prophets by your own hand.

God's followers even in early ancient times make mistakes, but they are not false ones. As with us all today; for some of us learn, someone us stand back up and try to do what is right in God's eyes and apply and learn from the Scriptures as we progress into the End Times.

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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To prevent such errors, elders should tell also date of bird and ID number, his nick name if he has such.... and of course name of mother and father of particular person....., perhaps it would not be bad idea also to give names of other family members, wife, children ... to prevent any mistakes about who they speaking about.

Hmmm........that seems to be what child abuse mudslingers would like done. .........it might prevent mistaken identities, but what about mistaken judgements?

PS. "Date of bird" where I come from means "How long did you spend in jail?"

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Oh dear S. M. you do love to fill the page with words, don't you. Repeating the same old stuff over and over again.

You are a parrot. You read things and repeat it.  YOU DO NOT HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE OF IT. 

Yes the GB and JW Org are still there but they are in trouble, not from Christendom, but from ex members who have suffered and now see the truth. Ex members of JW Org and even some current members in disguise, make known the disgusting things that go on in the JW Org. The protests that you hate are by people that have been hurt by the GB rules. Some of them find it hard to hold back their pain so release it in a negative way.  That is wrong of course but it shows the pain they feel.

You seem to be 'playing it safe' by being a Unitarian and also supporting the JW's. You also seem to support other religions, even Islam. 

What makes you think that any of us do not make God's word known. Are we not even here speaking up for what is right in God's eyes ? 

BUT we do not invite people into a known danger, or a known Organisation that teaches lies and pretends to be guided by God. 

Do not be mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses and their GB, DO NOT OWN GOD. We can serve God through Jesus Christ and we do not need that Organisation. 

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You are a parrot. You read things and repeat it.  YOU DO NOT HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE OF IT. 

If you could keep your aviarphobic hatred to yourself I would appreciate it. You are nearly as bad as that ridiculous TTH.

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3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And the fact that your GB act like Hitler giving orders which result in disfellowshipping people, which is in fact, in the eyes of the GB, killing people spiritually, which will eventually kill them physically at Armageddon. 

JWs of that time would been most grateful had Hitler disfellowshipped them and thereafter treated them as though they did not exist. As it was, he went well beyond “killing them spiritually.”

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12 minutes ago, Vic Vomidog said:

If you could keep your aviarphobic hatred to yourself I would appreciate it.

Oh dear did I ruffle your feathers. How sad for you. TRUTH HURTS get over it. 

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7 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

JWs of that time would been most grateful had Hitler disfellowshipped them and thereafter treated them as though they did not exist. As it was, he went well beyond “killing them spiritually.”

Yes but those ones WILL get a resurrection, and many of them didn't die spiritually did they ? They are in God's memory. 

 In this time of supposed 'end' disfellowshipped ones may not get the chance according to your JW Org and GB. 

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

He claimed in a speech that if a person finds a fault in WT doctine and can show it from the Bible, then absolutely the WT organization will change the doctrine. 

It seems you were barking up the wrong tree when you approached the elders then. Who is it that would change the doctrine? The WT org, not the elders.

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Oh dear S. M. you do love to fill the page with words, don't you. Repeating the same old stuff over and over again.

Can you point anywhere as to where I had made mention to Christians who have spiritual gifts - elsewhere besides here, Butler?

Also I do not see why you now refrain from quoting me so I can get a notification this time.

 

 

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You are a parrot. You read things and repeat it.  YOU DO NOT HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE OF IT. 

Surely I expect a stronger response than that than that parrot remark, but you know as they say, when you Resort To naming, it shows that you’ve lost the argument. There isn't a single thing I've mention that is not true and everything I speak of is indeed true.

Also Mr. Butler, if you have forgotten, the study of religion is actually a thing. Where have you been Butler? In the mountains?

You speak of experience but you wee only secluded to a single JW church in your place of dwelling. Your experience does not define the masses, now does it Mr. Butler, if you show yourself to be of that mentality, which was somewhat showing last time, it makes you a the cause of a bigger problem that is the realm of anything else including religion.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Repeating the same old stuff over and over again.

Oh really then? So what was your actions in response for the last several threads in span of months now, Butler?

the difference things I am aware of the situation of things, you are not.

To speak of such and yet you are found to be replicating the same, but it is to commit to discussion than what is spoken of - like right now.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes the GB and JW Org are still there but they are in trouble, not from Christendom, but from ex members who have suffered and now see the truth.

Not all former members, granted the existence and evidence of those, former Jehovah's Witnesses, they are against former Jehovah's Witnesses who seek to take every little thing to attack the faith community, some of them even going as far as to wanting to see, even seek the death of all Jehovah's Witnesses because they do not like them or what they do.

They are in danger of Christendom of he mainstream, did you forget the number of events that took place before the Russian Ban? The stolen money? What took place in a Russian School? The War parades? Clearly you do not know any of such things because you do not want to do the research, you are a yes-man to every bit of information through your way and accept it as is without even taking some time to do the research. To add more fueling to the fire, disgruntled ones tend to paint all JWs as the same and they will attack anyone or any JW, even a JW who has a visible and yet obvious disability if need be.

Plus you have people who are not of the faith nor give a care of the Bible coming to the defense of those they know in the faith, defending them from disgruntled ExJws - there is a video of that, even the atheists have that video too, this also includes the one individual who was ready to take action on disgruntled JWs who went after his girlfriend, who is of that faith community - as Evo pointed out.

Yes there are those who suffer, indeed, but not all of them for everyone situation is different, same faith yes, but the background and things such each person faces varies, and or is vastly different.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Ex members of JW Org and even some current members in disguise, make known the disgusting things that go on in the JW Org.

Everyone does this, in schools, religions, clubs, even conventions of anything, they do this, mainly if they do not agree with them or does not like them. You think this is of some new unfounded design?

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The protests that you hate are by people that have been hurt by the GB rules.

Who said anything about hate? Show me as to where I said I hate protesting. Do not twist my words because as I told you before protesting in this sense does not do any good, an ExJW stopped the protest, he was backed up by a gay man and an artist as well, the very man who stopped it is someone of whom Srecko supports.

If you want to know those who committed to the protest last year even wanted the religious leaders of JWs to show up to speak with them, the EXJWs joked about assassination attempts, and onward they went on to disrupt religious service of a church they do not agree with. Even some of their own backed out because they knew it was too much, even atheist bring this up.

The churches that they rallied together backed out also because although they agree/disagree with JWs on some thing they too know it was not right. Among the ExJWs they even wanted to get the US president to ban and or attack JWs, wipe them off of the face of the US.

You tell me how far is one willing to go when anyone and everyone can see with their eyes this is not the right way, to which even people of that county even state and see it as borderline extremism? Tell me John Butler, you think this is right when even churches back out as with others?

That being said, if being okay with disruption and take over a church is cool with you, clearly you need to be checked out because any sane man can see that this is downright wrong, it is not about hate, it is about how this was done and by whom and what was the result by means of the aftermath. All this went on as ANTIFA was beating the water out of people in the streets with the Black Bloc party  and BAMN, lead by a school professor who is among the spokesman for the group to commit violence.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Some of them find it hard to hold back their pain so release it in a negative way.  That is wrong of course but it shows the pain they feel.

What happen last year was not of pain. Yes people were hurt and they felt something, but some of them backed out when things got chaotic for they themselves knew it was not right, it only pains them as much as an enemy to disgruntled JWs than the JWs themselves. Clearly there are better ways, but such in such matter is not one of them. Moreover, it creates people into enemies in the process, which was the case with the one guy going on a warpath against ExJWs for his girlfriend who was in that same JW church that was disrupted in Passaic County.

even outside of religion any sane person would know this isn't the right way to express ones feelings or pain, for in the US that is asking for bloodshed in some if not most situations when this go downhill.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You seem to be 'playing it safe' by being a Unitarian and also supporting the JW's.

Playing it safe? I have been a Biblical Unitarian since I was 6. Not only I studied the Bible, but I studied religions very early, hence my stance on the Trinity, but at the same time to speak the gospel I have to understand the rights from wrongs and know that anything accursed must be refuted.

It isn't about support, it is about exposing falsehood of conspiracy spread by people who clearly has a disdain for the faith. Witness mentioned 2 books by JWs that ExJW use that primarily to proof false prophets, people who claim to be inspired but the claim in of itself is unfounded. even in our history of Christendom you would never caught a Non-Trinitarian make that claim, and if it unknown to everyone JWs do not believe in the Trinity thus maintain Restorationist roots.

Unless you want to show me as to where Jehovah's Witnesses or Watchtower, what have you owns Nintendo and Victoria Secret stocks, as claimed by ExJws, then show me if I am in the wrong, Butler. Because I can pull up one quote from an ExJW that has proven the people in question in error, as I have done here now regarding a prophet and an inspired prophet.

Moreover, I do not see how spiritual gifts of a normal prophet does not make one inspired and or infallible has gone amissed - it tell you the difference in the Scriptures.

Therefore, I speak truth of the matter, nothing more, you want to see it a support, so be it, but a man who speaks of conspiracy and error will and shall forever be refuted if need be.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You also seem to support other religions, even Islam. 

Do you have proof? Explaining misconceptions and errors people say about Islam isn't support. I have an understanding as to what they believe and where they are coming from themselves and yet I am still a Biblical Unitarian.

Clearly here I have explained to you what their belief is because as with anything pertaining to religious studies, I understand rather, which you have done, assume.

And seeing you are in the United Kingdom you will realize how quick your own country will paint you if you do not understand Islam's views, you may end up like Lauren Southern or Tommy Robinson, who on his part, painted everyone as the same for the actions of a few on occasion because he believes error that sparks fear.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

What makes you think that any of us do not make God's word known.

Well for starters, you were quick to assume one's forgiveness, you were quick to assume things, you were quick to not speak of as if you know who has God's approval and who does not and a list of others things, to which you agree at one time and later disagree with.

I asked you before a basic question, for if you cannot teach yourself on this small thing, how are you to teach others?

One stated that, even assumed, God's Order has changed when Apostle Paul said otherwise, the other calls Abraham selfish and a lair but the Bible as we read in account of Abraham says the opposite, you think this equates to God's Message? His Word? When the Bible says otherwise even giving us the verse and or passage to which we can see for ourselves about the truth of the matter?

No - clearly someone will say something, refute, perhaps even confute if need be.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are we not even here speaking up for what is right in God's eyes ? 

Then speak up. Do not use false information and conspiracy to justify it as a truth, otherwise you will deal with response in a mater with such ones like me and or other.

Learn and research then come to the conclusion because if someone says something that is found out to be untrue even when the Bible professes the truth, someone who knows what is true will say something, which is the case with the following:

  • A Prophet Inspired and Infallible
  • A Prophet (Not) Inspired and Infallible

The reasons why I profess the claim of which they bring forth, the same claim of which they bring up those books from - is unfounded. Not even in Non-Trinitarianism History you will find such a thing.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

BUT we do not invite people into a known danger, or a known Organisation that teaches lies and pretends to be guided by God. 

How are you so sure they are pretending if you yourself do not know who has God's approval or not? You do realize they too are seeking God, as with the rest of us. But going this far to take up claim to false information and conspiracy to claim false prophet makes one the bigger problem and or villain in this case than those they target.

They never claimed to be inspired prophets, Butler, they know this, and everyone else knows this and understand the difference in one inspired and a normal prophet.

Christians today are prophets, clearly not inspired or infallible.

The REAL danger is Babylon's religion, the E.I.I and it clear connection with Lucis Trust, as seen in history, or as some would say, NWO if you even bothered to look into that formation. You should be weary of who is on that side and who isn't, I already gave you one clue and the people who support such is those of the Interfaith, reasons why their conquest is for peace while their counterpart is for security.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Do not be mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses and their GB, DO NOT OWN GOD. We can serve God through Jesus Christ and we do not need that Organisation. 

No one owns God, indeed, such ones, as with all of us strive to follow God be close to him, and follow his Son, the Christ, Jesus.

The problem you face is what of the church Jesus himself built? You cannot be unaware of this information, if so, why try to follow the Christ if this information is alien to you, after all, you asked me before of what church I am referring to.

 

That being said, you at some point asked for a debate or stated we are in a debate. With you we can start with 2 things:

  • psalms 137:9
  • When Kettel was asked of you as to what this is, do you know of it, granted you are a reader of the Bible yourself?

Other than that, everything spoken of is indeed true, one cannot refute the difference of one prophet inspired and the other who is not.

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51 minutes ago, Vic Vomidog said:

If you could keep your aviarphobic hatred to yourself I would appreciate it. You are nearly as bad as that ridiculous TTH.

He does not know that the actions of alone person a killer, a pedophile, a con man, even if that person is in the church of Jehovah's Witnesses, the actions of such a man does not define all of them. This goes hand in hand with someone who is of and or former by their own experience, they do not define everyone else.

Butler's experience does not define the experience and actions of another UK counterpart of his, an Arab JW named Kathgar.

This mentality is absurd to assumption of the masses for the sake one one or two foolish ones. Such a mentality plagues everything from religion to education, and even in the realm of medicine and disease.

But as one guy mentioned today to me, that is the mind of people of the world nowadays. As of recent a Security Guard was shot and killed for stopping a gunman. An honest man would know that one police officer should be held accountable, but it does not bring anyone justice to attack all police officers for the sake one man who took such action, to add more fuel to the fire it becomes more of a racial thing.

People can be better than that but they refuse to bring forth the betterment of themselves thus passing on the erroneous actions of their hands to the children, the next generation and they to their children, next generation.

That being said, such ones need to wake up, but that therapeutic pillow is just too good for them and they remain asleep.

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40 minutes ago, Anna said:

It seems you were barking up the wrong tree when you approached the elders then. Who is it that would change the doctrine? The WT org, not the elders.

And you think the GB would actually receive any letters from us folks ? Surely they have 'office staff' that open all the mail ? 

And writing to the UK Bethal is of no use, as i found out already. Response was horrid, no love there. 

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@JOHN BUTLER Simply just go talk to them, it didn't stop others from doing this. But with the way things are going people can be concern of who they are confronted by. Clearly if you being to attack them they will not continue any further.

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@Space Merchant    Whenever i or others say anything true about the JW org and its GB then SM says we are talking 'false information and conspiracy'.

OK SM it's your choice whom you believe. But a lot of evidence has been placed here on this forum showing that the GB tell lies. You may call it making mistakes if you wish. 

Why would God and Jesus even bother to have a Faithful and Discreet Slave if Jesus was not going to pass on perfect truthful information to them ? 

Why would God even bother to have an Organisation named after Him, if He was not going to have Jesus do things properly ? 

You are insulting God Himself and Jesus Christ by agreeing with any thoughts that say the GB of the JW Org are the Faithful and Discreet Slave.  Why so ? Because the GB and the JW Org have been proved wrong so many times.  So they  cannot have God's backing or Christ's. 

As for your idea that "He does not know that the actions of alone person a killer, a pedophile, a con man, even if that person is in the church of Jehovah's Witnesses, the actions of such a man does not define all of them."

Um, How many Pedophiles ? How much Child Abuse ? How many Elders Earthwide have been convicted ? 

The Two Witness Rule of the GB carried out by the Elders. Where ? Earthwide. 

The Child Abuse where ? Earthwide.  The Shunning that affects thousands of people where ? Earthwide. 

So your stupid idea of the actions of alone person a killer, a pedophile, a con man.  Hold no water at all. Because it is hundreds if not thousands of wicked ones within the JW Org. And it is because of the GB's rules and the Elders acting as puppets, that things have been allowed to happen. 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And you think the GB would actually receive any letters from us folks ? Surely they have 'office staff' that open all the mail ? 

Yes, of course they have office staff that open the mail. And as any office staff they will filter letters according to relevance. If a letter is directly addressed to the GB, then I am assuming that if this letter is not something ridiculous, then it will get passed onto the relevant department. I think @JW Insider will know better than me. As far as I am aware, for example, if it is a doctrinal issue, then this would be passed onto and handled by the writing department. If it is something worth considering, then it would become part of the GB agenda for the weekly meeting. If it is something that the writing department can answer, then you would most likely get an answer from that department. 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

OK SM it's your choice whom you believe. But a lot of evidence has been placed here on this forum showing that the GB tell lies. You may call it making mistakes if you wish. 

So show me the evidence of making claim to inspired prophets whereas the information present outweighs the falsehood of such claims.

Most importantly, I want you so show me the claim you made against me about supporting Islam when I merely explained their view to you, not once, but several times.

Show me as to where the JWs are of demonic influence.

Also I want you to show me prove of God's approval, as you so claim before.

The lot of you didn't even know the difference of an inspired prophet and who who is not, so what more can you show me than snippets from a book whereas in the same paragraph is self-refutes the claim you have made?

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why would God and Jesus even bother to have a Faithful and Discreet Slave if Jesus was not going to pass on perfect truthful information to them ? 

If anyone knows the history. Jesus entrusted the disciples to continue on in his behalf, of which the disciples have done so, as with the churches, the early Christians and Paul. Christians can and will make mistakes but it does not defeat the purpose of the message they will bring, even some mistakes made by the actions of their own hand they make up for it for they are human, they are imperfect and they have perhaps more sense to even realize that. This was the case with Eusebius who knew the errors of some folk and corrected them, especially when he exposed those who take up things that is accursed, defending a verse of which all of us know today to which the mainstream has misinterpreted.

This is the same case with Christians today when it comes to such, for ever man and woman can stumble, but it does not stop them from standing back up.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why would God even bother to have an Organisation named after Him, if He was not going to have Jesus do things properly ?

Because when Jesus formed the church, the disciples did what they had to do to maintain peace in the church, in Paul's case, he had the ability to bind and loosen, just as the others have, to remove what is seen as bad in the church, mainly when it came to unrepentant ones, of which we see an example of such in the Bible.

As Christians we are to preach to all people, help them learn what the gospel actually is so that they too can learn, so that they too can understand why Jesus is the Head of the Church, and why God is the head of the Christ and so forth, for if people are not taught these things it will lead to outlandish practices and doctrines that has no origin within the church whatsoever.

And if one does not adhere to the Great Commission it is an utter disservice to the one who gave the command, for a Christian to not adhere such a command how can he say he follow the Christ? He or she is only kidding themselves if they are as such.

For there is a distinction between a Christian who is True and a Christian who is False and it shows who is doing things accordingly and who is not.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You are insulting God Himself

Insulting? How would I be insulting God when the one who agree with things God sent Satan to do his bidding? 

I am not insulting God whatsoever because I am speaking the truth in this matter. I am not someone such as yourself who lives in a box not realizing the gravity of the situation of what the world is. I do anything and everything for the truth of the Scriptures and of God and unlike you I will not stoop to the lowest level and make claim I am a Christian and yet show the true colors which will result in people to profess question.

Therefore, I want you to prove yourself claim because I can easily prove how you attempt to violate Scripture by means of thinking something of today's language reflect the language of Old. That is if you protest to go there, I am able and willing.

That being said I defended God's order, the ones you have agreed with were against it. So you tell me who is insulting God if you want to play this game of yours in this way.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

agreeing with any thoughts that say the GB of the JW Org are the Faithful and Discreet Slave.  Why so ? Because the GB and the JW Org have been proved wrong so many times.  So they  cannot have God's backing or Christ's. 

Then show me as to where they claimed to be inspired prophets and infallible. If I speak the truth about the difference of a prophet inspired and not inspired, they have at it then.

Tell me exactly as to when and where they made this claim otherwise you remain in deceit of your own design and of those who profess it.

The JWs themselves is a denomination, a Christian faith, and seeing that they hold true to their Restorationist roots, they have religious leaders, their church has roles as is not to different from those who does anything and everything to be like the early church. They understand that God isn't a Triune Being, they understand the importance of the Great Commission of which the latter has shown to be against in an older debate. They understand that the world is indeed wicked in a sense to the price of which we pay by the hands of our first parents who committed sin and disobeyed God and they understand, like all persons in the world, be it religious or not, they such things cannot be resolved by humans hands, but only of God.

something of which you remain to be shrouded by that simply fact. You cannot cleanse an entire faith because you do not know who goes in and out of the faith. You cannot cleanse the world of it's imperfection because man is unable to do such a task by their own hand let alone any government on the face of this earth.

for you to remain ignorant to this face further proves you are among those who do not take into account what is taking place and perhaps, like Kairos, be easily swept by their words and be nothing more than a follower of them, one of the very reasons I hold a strong disdain for Interfaith because I did the research and I observed, I know who is the real threat here, clearly you do not.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for your idea that "He does not know that the actions of alone person a killer, a pedophile, a con man, even if that person is in the church of Jehovah's Witnesses, the actions of such a man does not define all of them."

Idea? Have you checked the news recently? Perhaps the Security Guard who was a hero but ended up being shot and the aftermath of the action? Did you really miss such things? Do you even pay attention and or vigilant of what is going on?

When it comes to an action done by someone of a race, a faith, a background and or upbringing, the actions of the sole individual makes puts people in the mentality of seeing all persons of that following the same. Examples would be Muslims, and seeing you are in the UK this should come as no surprise to you because it happens and you know it happens, granted you posted articles that even have links to such tragic stories.

If someone does something, someone of that faith,. their whole faith and it's people are demonized, blamed, insulted they are spoken of as being a terror group, this takes place in public spaces and even schools and it goes on, it goes for people of racial backgrounds as well whereas if someone of a race is killed by someone who is not of that race, a whole racial group is to blame for the actions of one person, it does not define everyone as the same for the actions of a single man. This mentality is what is poisoning our society and some of us are woke enough to see that. But clearly you thinking it is my idea further proves your ignorance.

That being said, actions committed by a killer, a pedophile, a con-man does not define everyone. Granted it is not unknown to people that religious institutions have some who commit to pedophilia, and it is no surprise it happens in the churches of the Jehovah's Witnesses, but it is absurd and foolish to attest to the very idea that because of the actions of a man or a few that thousands of others should be called as such on the streets for an action they had no hand in.

Again, the case with the Church disruption done by Mr. Gardner and friends, they refereed to the JWs who had no idea what was going on, you can see the fear in their faces, and they insulted, even shamed, when they did no wrong to no one.

If you have people backing away from the actions done by such ones, that it on itself is a problem because last I checked, when I made mention of this months ago you were nowhere to be found, so do not act like you know the situation when you have no idea of what went down it was more than that and such ones made more enemies than friends/allies.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Um, How many Pedophiles ? How much Child Abuse ? How many Elders Earthwide have been convicted ? 

I told you before, the Jehovah's Witnesses are not immune to those who commit pedophilia and or abuse children, no one is as is with ALL institutions. That actions of such ones even among JWs who do that does not define the masses, does it define the JWs on this forum? No. Does it define those who had their churches raided? No. Does it define the Russian JWs? No. If one JW does the cirm he will do the timer, case and point, but his actions does not define all JWs around the globe, even the ones here, it the onw who is branded as a criminal does not reflect them also.

Problems like this will continue to happen because pedophilia is widespread and it has started to happen in restaurants also. To the Unitarians is his not unknown either for even Unitarians are found out to be pedophilia, but despite this, it does not define all of them, the same with Muslims and others, even Jews, of which they had a shooting take placer weeks ago for them in the US. Another situation where a little girl was not just abused but she was violently molested in a school in the US, does it define all Americans because of the actions of this man? No. It is things like that you have to realize because clearly you speak of showing care as did before but you present another face when it comes to claim. In my case, I am for education and teachings young ones to do what is right, so they themselves do not become a target and I am happy of what I accomplished in this domain because I know what the CAP is doing actually works.

That being said, Child Prevention Services even gave examples of trying to minimize the situation and or recognize them, even offering help and solutions to which you your yourself to be in opposition of (which is the same case with ARC and its solutions), as is evident at every instance of which I presented even pulled information from those sources to present to you and others. So you tell me, you think Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention is a joke or not, and how is it you are helping the cause when such things are seen as lacking on your part?

No one can stop pedophilia, we can only do our best to minimize the issue wherever it is, the same way that we cannot stop famine or war 100%, this we cannot stop completely for it is indeed earth wide and spreading and some even are fighting to defend pedophilia as if it is some special sexual orientation. The best I can do is educate our children and others adults, perhaps you yourself should be doing the same thing, keeping our youth able and ready so they can teach others. You should try it sometime.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The Two Witness Rule of the GB carried out by the Elders. Where ? Earthwide. 

I already explain after I did the research ever since the ARC thread.

Perhaps correct yourself before you speak. They have a use for the ruling and it is not unknown to anyone of what that is. Even NBC, the same MSM organization do not have all the facts to the ruling but the actual information of where I pulled it from speaks the truth in this matter.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The Child Abuse where ? Earthwide.  The Shunning that affects thousands of people where ? Earthwide. 

Child abuse is everywhere it is not secluded to solely Jehovah's Witnesses. You are in the UK, you should be aware of grooming gangs but the fact you are unaware of such things unless I brought it up further proves your stance and your views.

The shunning is actually biblical but only cuts church ties. This has been proven true with Biblical Facts, as with regarding JWs, even former members make the same claim.

Understand as to why that command is entrusted,but you not knowing that further proves where you lack in spiritual wisdom.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So your stupid idea of the actions of alone person a killer, a pedophile, a con man.

Stupid idea? It is no idea, it is an actual mentality, to some extent, a mob mentality.

In the US you do realize why police officers are attack on occasion sometimes? Because people prompt the mentality to blame all police officers for the actions of a single officer on the other side of the US or elsewhere. If a police officer commits murder, even a racist one, if they rape, if they extort, if they pin the blame or planet drugs on someone, etc. This will cause people to speak and assume that because of that lone police officer, it defines all of them. Which is not something and or even a path we should follow.

Even to you guys in the UK, should someone do something it does not define you, or the rest of the people in your vicinity. Should one commit a crazy crime, a knife or acid attack which is common in the UK and such was done out of hate - does it define you? No. How will others define you? They will equate to you as the culprit, like him who did the crime, they will speak slander of you and a list of others things we you know yourself and your family knows you are not that guy, but others who are very angry with the criminal, they will spare no stone to protest that you are the villain.

This mentality is a gross one, we such a thing should not be passed on to our children.

It all goes back to Evo's question of which you said he was trying to trick you. He had a good reason saying that.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Hold no water at all. Because it is hundreds if not thousands of wicked ones within the JW Org. And it is because of the GB's rules and the Elders acting as puppets, that things have been allowed to happen. 

That is sheer ignorance. With what has gone down throughout the years and you attest such holds no idea when the mentality is there in this sense? Srecko may be under a rock on some things, but you show yourself to be perhaps lost in space. First, not all JWs are wicked, and even the bad ones do not define all the rest, even the ones on this forum, they do not even define Kathgar that would have ended up as a target for ISIS a while back.

And Here is where you contradict yourself. You do not assume things of people nor do you judge, and yet you are found out to say the following: [And it is because of the GB's rules and the Elders acting as puppets] Any JW here is a puppet? As far as I am concern no one is a puppet here, thus making your insult towards them as weak as your claim of being supporting Islam when I merely explained it to you.

Pedophilia had been around for a long time and it has infiltrated all intuitions, even in Bible times regarding Baal Worshipers who were cursing God's people although not mention, such ones were indeed young. They do not allow it to happen because they to do their best, you'd be surprise as to some of them who actually took the advice of Child Abuse Prevention Services and applied it by educating themselves and others, which is the case with an African JW I spoke of before.

You need to wake yourself up because this is reality, not a dream, and such of what is said is no idea when it takes place all over the place, all over the world, you have examples of that with the Jews and Samaritans even in Bible times, but not all Jews (even in Jesus' case and those connected to him) are the same, not all Samaritans are the same.

Meditate on this quote, Butler and do the research, read whatever news you adhere to, because you show yourself in critical need of it.

“Don't let the actions of a few determine the way you feel about an entire group. Remember, not all German's were Nazis.”

Erin Gruwell

That begin said, check thyself before you wreckth thyself because thing the so called idea is stupid, it shows you fail to see what is going around you in the world, let alone your own country, as of which I made mention with London already, as did others.


I leave you with this. If Child Abuse is that much of a concern for you, why not adhere to what child prevention services who are instructing people to do, by means of teaching, even PSA and videos, helping people to help prevent someone else from being a victim or the one who preys on victims; passing on teachings to someone younger to help lessen abuse? If it can help others, it can help you even teach you so that anyone who sees you as a guardian can also be helped Instead of attacking JWs on the daily simply speak them calmly and even educate them in his sense, come to them as they are a blood brother/sister of yours and teach them if need be, it does not have to be JW only, you have Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc - at least this is where you can come to common round with such folks outside debate and discussion. After all, it is far worse in the UK than it is here in the US. Do yourself a favor and do what I do, educate them

 

 

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10 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, such ones need to wake up, but that therapeutic pillow is just too good for them and they remain asleep.

Any mention of pillows is a sore subject with me. Many of my friends had to go naked for the sake of these.

 

7 hours ago, Anna said:

If a letter is directly addressed to the GB, then I am assuming that if this letter is not something ridiculous, then it will get passed onto the relevant department. 

Whenever the office staff thought a letter was from a birdbrain they handed it to me. I never got to do anything else. That’s why I left.

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6 hours ago, Outta Here said:

What is? publicising all those personal details you list in a case where the judgement is mistaken?

  14 hours ago, Outta Here said:

what about mistaken judgements?

My comment:  that is terrible bad!

 

Conclusion:

mistaken judgements are terrible bad

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Anna said:

Yes, of course they have office staff that open the mail. And as any office staff they will filter letters according to relevance. If a letter is directly addressed to the GB, then I am assuming that if this letter is not something ridiculous, then it will get passed onto the relevant department. I think @JW Insider will know better than me. As far as I am aware, for example, if it is a doctrinal issue, then this would be passed onto and handled by the writing department. If it is something worth considering, then it would become part of the GB agenda for the weekly meeting. If it is something that the writing department can answer, then you would most likely get an answer from that department. 

If it were that good and that easy i would think the GB would get hundreds of letters a week :) . I actually don't think a letter would get past the first 'hurdle'. Each of us to our opinions of course, but I'm going by the response I got from London Bethal, and from the lack of response I got from the letter I wrote to the BODY OF ELDERS at Honiton Congregation (my ex KH). That letter was only seen by two of the Elders it seems and one of them threatened to disfellowship me. 

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16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So show me the evidence of making claim to inspired prophets whereas the information present outweighs the falsehood of such claims.

Most importantly, I want you so show me the claim you made against me about supporting Islam when I merely explained their view to you, not once, but several times.

Show me as to where the JWs are of demonic influence.

Also I want you to show me prove of God's approval, as you so claim before.

The lot of you didn't even know the difference of an inspired prophet and who who is not, so what more can you show me than snippets from a book whereas in the same paragraph is self-refutes the claim you have made?

If anyone knows the history. Jesus entrusted the disciples to continue on in his behalf, of which the disciples have done so, as with the churches, the early Christians and Paul. Christians can and will make mistakes but it does not defeat the purpose of the message they will bring, even some mistakes made by the actions of their own hand they make up for it for they are human, they are imperfect and they have perhaps more sense to even realize that. This was the case with Eusebius who knew the errors of some folk and corrected them, especially when he exposed those who take up things that is accursed, defending a verse of which all of us know today to which the mainstream has misinterpreted.

This is the same case with Christians today when it comes to such, for ever man and woman can stumble, but it does not stop them from standing back up.

Because when Jesus formed the church, the disciples did what they had to do to maintain peace in the church, in Paul's case, he had the ability to bind and loosen, just as the others have, to remove what is seen as bad in the church, mainly when it came to unrepentant ones, of which we see an example of such in the Bible.

As Christians we are to preach to all people, help them learn what the gospel actually is so that they too can learn, so that they too can understand why Jesus is the Head of the Church, and why God is the head of the Christ and so forth, for if people are not taught these things it will lead to outlandish practices and doctrines that has no origin within the church whatsoever.

And if one does not adhere to the Great Commission it is an utter disservice to the one who gave the command, for a Christian to not adhere such a command how can he say he follow the Christ? He or she is only kidding themselves if they are as such.

For there is a distinction between a Christian who is True and a Christian who is False and it shows who is doing things accordingly and who is not.

Insulting? How would I be insulting God when the one who agree with things God sent Satan to do his bidding? 

I am not insulting God whatsoever because I am speaking the truth in this matter. I am not someone such as yourself who lives in a box not realizing the gravity of the situation of what the world is. I do anything and everything for the truth of the Scriptures and of God and unlike you I will not stoop to the lowest level and make claim I am a Christian and yet show the true colors which will result in people to profess question.

Therefore, I want you to prove yourself claim because I can easily prove how you attempt to violate Scripture by means of thinking something of today's language reflect the language of Old. That is if you protest to go there, I am able and willing.

That being said I defended God's order, the ones you have agreed with were against it. So you tell me who is insulting God if you want to play this game of yours in this way.

Then show me as to where they claimed to be inspired prophets and infallible. If I speak the truth about the difference of a prophet inspired and not inspired, they have at it then.

Tell me exactly as to when and where they made this claim otherwise you remain in deceit of your own design and of those who profess it.

The JWs themselves is a denomination, a Christian faith, and seeing that they hold true to their Restorationist roots, they have religious leaders, their church has roles as is not to different from those who does anything and everything to be like the early church. They understand that God isn't a Triune Being, they understand the importance of the Great Commission of which the latter has shown to be against in an older debate. They understand that the world is indeed wicked in a sense to the price of which we pay by the hands of our first parents who committed sin and disobeyed God and they understand, like all persons in the world, be it religious or not, they such things cannot be resolved by humans hands, but only of God.

something of which you remain to be shrouded by that simply fact. You cannot cleanse an entire faith because you do not know who goes in and out of the faith. You cannot cleanse the world of it's imperfection because man is unable to do such a task by their own hand let alone any government on the face of this earth.

for you to remain ignorant to this face further proves you are among those who do not take into account what is taking place and perhaps, like Kairos, be easily swept by their words and be nothing more than a follower of them, one of the very reasons I hold a strong disdain for Interfaith because I did the research and I observed, I know who is the real threat here, clearly you do not.

Idea? Have you checked the news recently? Perhaps the Security Guard who was a hero but ended up being shot and the aftermath of the action? Did you really miss such things? Do you even pay attention and or vigilant of what is going on?

When it comes to an action done by someone of a race, a faith, a background and or upbringing, the actions of the sole individual makes puts people in the mentality of seeing all persons of that following the same. Examples would be Muslims, and seeing you are in the UK this should come as no surprise to you because it happens and you know it happens, granted you posted articles that even have links to such tragic stories.

If someone does something, someone of that faith,. their whole faith and it's people are demonized, blamed, insulted they are spoken of as being a terror group, this takes place in public spaces and even schools and it goes on, it goes for people of racial backgrounds as well whereas if someone of a race is killed by someone who is not of that race, a whole racial group is to blame for the actions of one person, it does not define everyone as the same for the actions of a single man. This mentality is what is poisoning our society and some of us are woke enough to see that. But clearly you thinking it is my idea further proves your ignorance.

That being said, actions committed by a killer, a pedophile, a con-man does not define everyone. Granted it is not unknown to people that religious institutions have some who commit to pedophilia, and it is no surprise it happens in the churches of the Jehovah's Witnesses, but it is absurd and foolish to attest to the very idea that because of the actions of a man or a few that thousands of others should be called as such on the streets for an action they had no hand in.

Again, the case with the Church disruption done by Mr. Gardner and friends, they refereed to the JWs who had no idea what was going on, you can see the fear in their faces, and they insulted, even shamed, when they did no wrong to no one.

If you have people backing away from the actions done by such ones, that it on itself is a problem because last I checked, when I made mention of this months ago you were nowhere to be found, so do not act like you know the situation when you have no idea of what went down it was more than that and such ones made more enemies than friends/allies.

I told you before, the Jehovah's Witnesses are not immune to those who commit pedophilia and or abuse children, no one is as is with ALL institutions. That actions of such ones even among JWs who do that does not define the masses, does it define the JWs on this forum? No. Does it define those who had their churches raided? No. Does it define the Russian JWs? No. If one JW does the cirm he will do the timer, case and point, but his actions does not define all JWs around the globe, even the ones here, it the onw who is branded as a criminal does not reflect them also.

Problems like this will continue to happen because pedophilia is widespread and it has started to happen in restaurants also. To the Unitarians is his not unknown either for even Unitarians are found out to be pedophilia, but despite this, it does not define all of them, the same with Muslims and others, even Jews, of which they had a shooting take placer weeks ago for them in the US. Another situation where a little girl was not just abused but she was violently molested in a school in the US, does it define all Americans because of the actions of this man? No. It is things like that you have to realize because clearly you speak of showing care as did before but you present another face when it comes to claim. In my case, I am for education and teachings young ones to do what is right, so they themselves do not become a target and I am happy of what I accomplished in this domain because I know what the CAP is doing actually works.

That being said, Child Prevention Services even gave examples of trying to minimize the situation and or recognize them, even offering help and solutions to which you your yourself to be in opposition of (which is the same case with ARC and its solutions), as is evident at every instance of which I presented even pulled information from those sources to present to you and others. So you tell me, you think Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention is a joke or not, and how is it you are helping the cause when such things are seen as lacking on your part?

No one can stop pedophilia, we can only do our best to minimize the issue wherever it is, the same way that we cannot stop famine or war 100%, this we cannot stop completely for it is indeed earth wide and spreading and some even are fighting to defend pedophilia as if it is some special sexual orientation. The best I can do is educate our children and others adults, perhaps you yourself should be doing the same thing, keeping our youth able and ready so they can teach others. You should try it sometime.

I already explain after I did the research ever since the ARC thread.

Perhaps correct yourself before you speak. They have a use for the ruling and it is not unknown to anyone of what that is. Even NBC, the same MSM organization do not have all the facts to the ruling but the actual information of where I pulled it from speaks the truth in this matter.

Child abuse is everywhere it is not secluded to solely Jehovah's Witnesses. You are in the UK, you should be aware of grooming gangs but the fact you are unaware of such things unless I brought it up further proves your stance and your views.

The shunning is actually biblical but only cuts church ties. This has been proven true with Biblical Facts, as with regarding JWs, even former members make the same claim.

Understand as to why that command is entrusted,but you not knowing that further proves where you lack in spiritual wisdom.

Stupid idea? It is no idea, it is an actual mentality, to some extent, a mob mentality.

In the US you do realize why police officers are attack on occasion sometimes? Because people prompt the mentality to blame all police officers for the actions of a single officer on the other side of the US or elsewhere. If a police officer commits murder, even a racist one, if they rape, if they extort, if they pin the blame or planet drugs on someone, etc. This will cause people to speak and assume that because of that lone police officer, it defines all of them. Which is not something and or even a path we should follow.

Even to you guys in the UK, should someone do something it does not define you, or the rest of the people in your vicinity. Should one commit a crazy crime, a knife or acid attack which is common in the UK and such was done out of hate - does it define you? No. How will others define you? They will equate to you as the culprit, like him who did the crime, they will speak slander of you and a list of others things we you know yourself and your family knows you are not that guy, but others who are very angry with the criminal, they will spare no stone to protest that you are the villain.

This mentality is a gross one, we such a thing should not be passed on to our children.

It all goes back to Evo's question of which you said he was trying to trick you. He had a good reason saying that.

That is sheer ignorance. With what has gone down throughout the years and you attest such holds no idea when the mentality is there in this sense? Srecko may be under a rock on some things, but you show yourself to be perhaps lost in space. First, not all JWs are wicked, and even the bad ones do not define all the rest, even the ones on this forum, they do not even define Kathgar that would have ended up as a target for ISIS a while back.

And Here is where you contradict yourself. You do not assume things of people nor do you judge, and yet you are found out to say the following: [And it is because of the GB's rules and the Elders acting as puppets] Any JW here is a puppet? As far as I am concern no one is a puppet here, thus making your insult towards them as weak as your claim of being supporting Islam when I merely explained it to you.

Pedophilia had been around for a long time and it has infiltrated all intuitions, even in Bible times regarding Baal Worshipers who were cursing God's people although not mention, such ones were indeed young. They do not allow it to happen because they to do their best, you'd be surprise as to some of them who actually took the advice of Child Abuse Prevention Services and applied it by educating themselves and others, which is the case with an African JW I spoke of before.

You need to wake yourself up because this is reality, not a dream, and such of what is said is no idea when it takes place all over the place, all over the world, you have examples of that with the Jews and Samaritans even in Bible times, but not all Jews (even in Jesus' case and those connected to him) are the same, not all Samaritans are the same.

Meditate on this quote, Butler and do the research, read whatever news you adhere to, because you show yourself in critical need of it.

“Don't let the actions of a few determine the way you feel about an entire group. Remember, not all German's were Nazis.”

Erin Gruwell

That begin said, check thyself before you wreckth thyself because thing the so called idea is stupid, it shows you fail to see what is going around you in the world, let alone your own country, as of which I made mention with London already, as did others.


I leave you with this. If Child Abuse is that much of a concern for you, why not adhere to what child prevention services who are instructing people to do, by means of teaching, even PSA and videos, helping people to help prevent someone else from being a victim or the one who preys on victims; passing on teachings to someone younger to help lessen abuse? If it can help others, it can help you even teach you so that anyone who sees you as a guardian can also be helped Instead of attacking JWs on the daily simply speak them calmly and even educate them in his sense, come to them as they are a blood brother/sister of yours and teach them if need be, it does not have to be JW only, you have Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc - at least this is where you can come to common round with such folks outside debate and discussion. After all, it is far worse in the UK than it is here in the US. Do yourself a favor and do what I do, educate them

 

 

I read part of this lot but I give up on you SM.  You talk too much but say very little in real terms, You go over and over the same stuff. 

Not all Germans were Nazis. No but it took most of Germany to do what they did in WW2.  It wasn't just one or two of then was it ? 

The problems in the JW org start at the top with the GB, and then filter down via the  levels of 'authority' to the Elders. 

The Elders act on the orders of the GB. It's almost a dictatorship. But you SM have no real idea..........................

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14 hours ago, Vic Vomidog said:

Any mention of pillows is a sore subject with me. Many of my friends had to go naked for the sake of these.

The thing is people are sleeping on things as if it does not exist. Famine, Racism, Rape Culture, Far-Left/Right nonsense, people being pushed out of homes as a means of getting people to get surveillance homes and a list of other things.

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I read part of this lot but I give up on you SM.  You talk too much but say very little in real terms, You go over and over the same stuff. 

I do not care about real terms? You have stated yourself such things is of an idea as if it does not exist, you show yourself to be a means to the problem to think of such in this way, which is the same case with those who profess the same attitude as you do, and thus problem ensues. People who are concern and caring take into account of any such persons with this based minded mentality, some to an extent, a mob mentality.

Same stuff? Please. One can count up the measure of what you profess by your own hand which surpasses even mine, unlike you, I am being far more realistic and understanding of things - you however, are not, thus being alien to the things taking place around you, even within your area.

I asked you for several things (only once in the previous response of which clearly you have dodged), some of which you made the claim, I have not, reasons why I told you to show me.

And I asked or the following:

Quote
  • So show me the evidence of making claim to inspired prophets whereas the information present outweighs the falsehood of such claims.
  • Most importantly, I want you so show me the claim you made against me about supporting Islam when I merely explained their view to you, not once, but several times.
  • Show me as to where the JWs are of demonic influence.
  • Also I want you to show me prove of God's approval, as you so claim before.
  • I asked you to show me evidence to which you seem to consider me incorrect in hence your acceptiveness with the others, you have not brought up anything being asked of you let alone when the others have been asked, they brought nothing themselves, thus resulting in the incorrection being done on those who profess and agree with something that is false. Therefore the truth has been made known. Such ones never claimed to be inspired prophets or infallible.
  • You made claim I am supporting Islam when I merely explained Islam to you and their beliefs even attested to showing the misconceptions to which the latter had went dead silence, clearly explaining something and correcting someone on Islam does not show as support. I asked you to show me as to where am supporting Islam of which it is unfounded, thus making you a lair in ever sense for he word. Nest time make sure you have the proof before you say something.
  • The next claim is that JWs have a demonic influence, as brought up by Witness and it is of something agreeable in the eyes who side with him. Since none have yet to show me any of this claim of demonic influence, it makes the latter a lair because such a thing is unfounded, moreover, when I was in discussion with him, you had your say hence why the question is being asked of you, to which it is seen as unfounded.
  • You yourself made claim that you seem to know of whom God approves or not (thus putting you in a position one would say thinking for God). This alone shrouds you in deception in every sense.

When someone makes claim they cannot prove and resort to a response such as yours, then there is no resolve on that person's part, after all, you asked for it and yet you could not even deliver. It is one thing to be confused about something, but it is another to express ignorance and doing so knowingly and or be a yes-man to conspiracy and or false information.

You put yourself in the same boat as the Trinitarian who tried to make claims in regard of Christian history only for it to not go well with him in the end where he used John 8:44 on his self, thus engineering his own failure.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Not all Germans were Nazis. No but it took most of Germany to do what they did in WW2.  It wasn't just one or two of then was it ? 

The fact you do not understand the gravity of this quote shows how blind you truly are, Mr. Butler and the irony here is I used that quote to make a point, of which you have proven as predicted.

Most of German? No. You do realize how the Nazi Regime was with not just its captive, but of their own who was against them, an example would be the German Resistance against the Nazis and Hitler. The German Resistance, although German and of Germany were separate from the Nazis and the actions of the Nazis do not define the German Resistance.

The Secret State Police otherwise known as The Gestapo and the Security Service (SD) suppressed the open criticism of the regime professed by Nazi opposers, hence the German opposition to the Nazi state and the regimentation of society. These Germans were not for the Nazis, nor were they for Hitler and not allow of them hated the primary targets of the Nazis - The Jews.

The opposition against the Nazi was also even among their own faction whereas people started to go against the Regime itself, even Hitler, an example would be Wilhelm Canaris.

Of course it was not one, two, or perhaps several hundreds, but not all of Germany was for the Nazis, some opposed, some were against, for these individuals who were in opposition to the Nazis are not defined as Nazis. and yet people to day will insult a random German, or a German-American and calling them Nazis when they and or their household do not have anything to do with Nazis whatsoever.

This mentality existence in every aspect: Race, Religion, even Sex whereas you have such ones like Feminist who will do anything and everything to destroy your life if they had the chance.

That being said, do not ever mistake something that is true to be an idea when the mentality exists.

Learn the history, it may benefit you, Butler.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The problems in the JW org start at the top with the GB, and then filter down via the  levels of 'authority' to the Elders.

And? Religious leaders regardless of what they do or say does not define men, women and children of that faith. Although their practices are the same, any of those religious leaders does not define a JW who is in the Virgin Islands, perhaps another in Africa, maybe one in Japan or the be it the US or UK, each and everyone one of them are different.

For if an action is taken by a church elder, him being exposed to be someone vile and one who did a crime, it does not define others of that church, of that faith, the very point I make time and time again whereas you have before defined them instantly by means of your own experience in your own JW church, for such a thinking professed by you or the masses is absurd and even outside of that it leads to other actions such as vengeful attacks and or hate crime if it escalates.

You also speak of cleansing, something that is deemed nigh impossible because you have amount 7.53 billion+ people in the world, any one of them can become a JW by means of evangelicalism, you do not know their true intent, for a guy who joins them exactly wants betterment in his life and to understand who God is while another guy who joins them only to commit to gang stalk women, another may join them to seek children - they would not know unless it is too late, let alone not realizing any signs professed by someone.

Put yourself in a position of a religious leader, what would you do when you do not know the intent of perhaps 30 people in a small church you built, perhaps 100 or more, maybe 18,000. You would not be able to cleanse anything when you do not know the intent and or history of someone who chooses to go to your church and even outside of the church, the problem is far greater than you realize. You remove one, more will come, each with a ill unique intent of their own to do bad to commit problems and or harm to members of your church, the culprit could even be a young child and you not even know.

That being said, all men are imperfect, problems that irks you cannot be down away totally by the hands of man, the very reason I stated only God can clear up such a thing 100%, something of which Srecko tends to mock because he remains ignorance that all men are imperfect.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The Elders act on the orders of the GB. It's almost a dictatorship. But you SM have no real idea..........................

Dictatorship? If that is the case you should make yourself an Anti-Pauline and tear out pages from your own Bible, see how well you fair with True Christians once you do this.

Jesus built the church and it has been structured for Orderly Worship, in as much professed by Apostle Paul when he spoke of Creation, granted, as seen in the Bible his notion of such when referring to the First man - Adam, and the First Woman - Eve. If the church does what it needed to up-build it's people, even use its abilities to reinstate, expel, purify, etc that isn't dictatorship, and all churches do this however the only church who has done it the right way for so long was the apostolic church in which only a few follow, it is a problem if the church waters down what the apostolic church has done and or abandons it totally. I suggest you learn about the church of which Jesus build a long time ago and learn what the Apostolic Church is because this is pure ignorance by you on your own part. Another factor is Restoration Christians are strict, even Bible strict but they are not dictatorial and heir teachings and ruling comes from that of the Bible, as with all True Christians who understands this also.

You stated last time religious leadership was something of Pharisees, which came to bite you in the end when such was refuted and you had been corrected thoroughly - therefore I do have an idea because I understand the Theological Christology of a majority of Anti-Trinitarianic groups.

If I had no idea, then why is it I corrected you on the early church before whereas you claimed religious leadership is a Tradition of Men?

That being said, as followers of the Christ, people did follow the disciple, Paul even, people did follow the other religious leaders of that time because their spiritual goal remains the same and is aligned with the church, which is the same case with some of us today. For the only head of the church is the Christ, and God is above him, regardless of who the religious leader is.

I need not link the apostolic church link again because I gave you the link before. God knows if you read it or not, but the truth has been spoken in this regard.

 

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But Jesus said to him: “Do not try to prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.

Luke 9 v 50.

Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Luke 11 v23

@Space Merchant Regarding Islam. Are you just explaining about them or do you agree with them ?

Because Jesus made is quite clear in the above scriptures that there is no middle ground. 

As for you keep asking ME about the inspired or uninspired prophets. I had not even mentioned such. That is why I say you keep linking me to other people. Others may have said it, but i didn't.

The next claim is that JWs have a demonic influence, as brought up by Witness. so why blame me ? 

Once again you link me to someone else. 

 

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@Space Merchant Quote I do not care about real terms? You have stated yourself such things is of an idea as if it does not exist, you show yourself to be a means to the problem to think of such in this way, which is the same case with those who profess the same attitude as you do, and thus problem ensues. People who are concern and caring take into account of any such persons with this based minded mentality, some to an extent, a mob mentality.

So, by making a problem known you say i am causing a problem ? 

If a house was on fire and i made it known, would you then say I caused the fire ? 

The JW Org is a danger to young children and i will continue to make that known. And I'm proud that I make it known too.

The GB, as you have said, are not inspired, and it would seem they are not even guided by Holy Spirit either. 

Remember, by their works you will know them. I am judging the GB by their works. 

What would be the point of that scripture if it was not for us to judge them ?  Matthew 7 v 15 through 23.

15  “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16  By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17  Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18  A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19  Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20  Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.21  “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.22  Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23  And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew

    Hello guest!
 you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

I think Jesus made it clear enough here.  

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@JOHN BUTLER He is linking you with them because your reaction to their comments means you agree with them, not to mention you are mentioning him when you agree with those who made the claim so seeing that the both of you are in a debate, that's a strike on you because if one goes back some pages they can see you agreed with the other guy witness or Frida. 

I don't know about the Islam thing but he even linked the thread where he explained the belief of Muslims to you, the Islam faith and he stamped out the misconceptions. Nothing there shows he is supporting Islam, but rather, explaining it, even going as far as to say we must preach to them about the Bible. You yourself even agreed with him which is odd because recently you said he is supporting Islam when what you said turned out to be false. 

Buddy, I like debates as much as the next guy but if you say something you have to back it up with proof. If I were you I'd do some edits because it may save you some time and the embarrassment. Not every day a a young guy gives advise to an adult but this one fits the bill. 

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4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But Jesus said to him: “Do not try to prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.

Luke 9 v 50.

Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Luke 11 v23

Good, so when there is a conclusion we know who is in the correct.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Regarding Islam. Are you just explaining about them or do you agree with them ?

I merely explained them hence the the thread I linked. If I agreed with them why in the world would I attest to the idea of preaching to them by means of going on their level due to a common interest in God. Like us, they are seeking, so it does not stop a Christian to preach the gospel to Muslims who may or may not understand the Bible and teach them the Bible, let alone putting out some misconceptions they have of Christians due to Trinitarianism. The hypocrisy on your part, Mr. Butler, is the fact you agreed with me on this notion when I explained their views to you without resorting to accepting conspiracy and falsehood as you have, and I was brief about it also - as seen in this thread, of which I will link again, of which you are ignoring in my previous response:

And I made it clear, I do not adhere to false information and or conspiracy.

So according to your claim Mr. Butler

On 11/15/2018 at 11:19 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

You seem to be 'playing it safe' by being a Unitarian and also supporting the JW's. You also seem to support other religions, even Islam. 

Do you or do you not have any substantial proof I am supporting Islam when I simply explained their belief to you? Perhaps if I explained what convict is, in your eyes you see that an explanation of something or someone is seen as supporting.

That being said, I ask you something very simple of which you seem to be evading - Show me as to where I am supporting Islam (in fact show everyone since you made claim to this). If you cannot, you have just exposed yourself to be a lair in this sense and that this claim remains absurdly unfounded in the greatest sense.

anyone who studies religion does will speak what is true and what is false about someone's faith, they will also take up knowledge so they themselves can see what is actually accursed. The statement I made to you about the evident ignorance on your part in regards to Theological studies stand as true as the blue seas of the earth.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Because Jesus made is quite clear in the above scriptures that there is no middle ground.

Indeed there is no middle ground. There is no middle ground in what is True and what is False.

So according to your own statement, do you have the truth in regards to information that I am supporting Islam? So far I have only explained it, even to some degree on here I made mention of Sunnis and Shias and nothing in this regard shows I am supporting Islam, merely explaining something and or making a point in something.

So, to everyone here, to me - Do you have proof to your claim? After all, we are attesting to the truth - yes?

I, and I am sure others too, also want to know how on earth you can discern who has God's approval and who does not? I find this fascinating because you are clearly an imperfect man who cannot think for God when the bible says the opposite, let alone you are not above and or equal to God, for if it is of anyone concern, we are like spectacles of dust compared to the the Most High, El Shaddai, Yahweh.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The next claim is that JWs have a demonic influence, as brought up by Witness. so why blame me ? 

No one is blaming you. Pointing out the fact that you were agreed with Witness by the very word he professed, not only you shown your reaction to what he had to say despite not taking into account what he claims is false, you also spared no time but to even congratulate him on his response, when you yourself

On 11/14/2018 at 7:04 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Fantastic comment. But SM won't like it ofcourse :( 

And agreed with him, not once, but twice in this sense, therefore, if you agree with someone on something, it should not stop you from answering a question that resonates with what you are acceptive of.

Moreover, of course I will not agree with Witness, especially with things he speak of in other discussions which makes his claim of false prophets a self-refutation upon himself.

Regardless of what you think of JWs, they never in their existence made claim to being an inspired prophet, even tracing back to their days as Bible Students, furthermore, as I told Srecko, no Non-Trinitarian nor any true Restorationist will ever make the claim of being an inspired prophet. If anything they do see themselves as spirit led prophets who rare not inspired and not infallible.

That being said, no one is blaming you - simply pointing out what can be seen, unless you make a move as Srecko did to undo things and act as if it did not exist, such will not go well with you because that information is already insight and the last person to do that knew he engineered his own demise in a past discussion here and another elsewhere.

To add more fuel to the fire, the information that such ones like you are acceptive of comes from the source of which Witness pulled his information regarding JWs and inspired prophets, of which his own source is in deception when no such claim has ever been made, let alone to Non-Trinitarianism Christendom as a whole - the claim is unheard of and anyone who profess the claim as a viable truth and or accepts such is only kidding themselves and does not do the research on their part in this regard.

Perhaps next time read and make the research before you agree with something, and maybe you will realize as to why I am not for false information and conspiracy, especially coming from a person who proclaims such who believes God sent Satan to do his bidding, for he as yet to make answer to his own words thus far, clearly you shouldn't be acceptive of someone who believes this which is also a lie for God would never do such thing in Moses day.

Also I admire the mild jab, as seen here

On 11/6/2018 at 2:22 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

The thing is Srecko, SM doesn't believe the JW's have it right, or he would be one. :) 

But a man of Christ will always speak the truth in the matter, and Mr. Cryptic who thinks a dead mortal man can somehow still live, made a fool of himself when he does not even know elementary basics of Christian History.

That being said, all I need is the Bible, some Hermeneutics, Strong's, Technological facts and various studies to put such ones in their place, for it did not stop me before and it will not now, and granted of how I am, I take up some great examples from Prophet Isaiah of which me imitating what he did is seen as an error in your eyes. Which is, in as much, quite funny, if I may add.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Once again you link me to someone else. 

Because you agreed with him and because you attest to me not liking something of which I just exposed to be false information.

Be honest with yourself, if someone says such ones are of demonic influence, why in the world would you be speaking with them on this forum, why even commit to making a response to such persons of you agree with someone who speaks in such a way with the people of the faith community in question?

Mind you, this man speaks on shifting God's Order which is a direct violation of not only the apostolic church, but of the Bible itself, accursed, if you will.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So, by making a problem known you say i am causing a problem ? 

Because you attest to what I speak of is an idea - it is not. It is fact that those who think of it in as such that such ones can be a cause to the problem, which history has proven in itself in recent years, especially with the whole Left vs. Right nonsense that is taking place.

For example, we take racism. For someone to say that Racism does not exist, even in our day and age, they are part of the problem because to speak of it as such, it only bolsters others to do things they do not wish to do and even scatter people emotionally, break them. An in real life example is regarding those who says the Holocaust did not happen, this is in regards with a another faith group made such a claim, resulting in a young guy defending himself in this regard, but they kept on going with their lies and they broke the man causing him to cry. such persons who do this these things regardless of which domain this is in are the root of the issue, no solutions to anything to help and or other.

That being said, the next time you say something is an idea, make sure it is not a literal mentality, it happens a lot in the US, even to you folks in the United Kingdom, that is, if you paid attention to whatever media you adhere to, for such is indeed a problem and people who pass it off as something silly or non-existence end up as part of the problem when they themselves can be the one to make a change in the matter.

The mentality, that strives of people who attest to mobs will be put to an end when the End Times conclude and I will be very happy when such things are done away with. You should be too.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If a house was on fire and i made it known, would you then say I caused the fire ? 

A bad example in regards to what a response is made towards you in stating the mob mentality that exist nothing more than a mere idea. Perhaps next time understand as to why I made a response, Mr. Butler.

Racism isn't an idea. Demonizing people isn't an idea. People suffer by means of such things, often end up as targets, those who know what mentality opposers press forth will say something, those who laugh or brush it off as something that does not exist, what of it then of those who are targets in this way? But of course, you will make claim [as you have done so already] that I see myself inferior (which you couldn't even proof when the truth has been spoken and the statistics, and facts, can be brought forth to make it up thus showing the error on your part) because of the imperfections of the world which I can see of which I had witnessed when you are living out in space being unaware of the situations at hand. Therefore, as I told the other commentor (The Pirate Bird) - people need to wake up and stop being asleep, this includes you.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The JW Org is a danger to young children and i will continue to make that known. And I'm proud that I make it known too.

Understandable, as do I. But is is absurd and silly to demonize all Jehovah's Witnesses as if they all commit the crime as soon as that lone individual had done it. I assume Anna, JW Insider and Outta Here are Jehovah's Witnesses, for if someone did the action of abuse, the sin they commit on their hands does not define Anna, it does not define, JW Insider, it does not define Outta Here.

And no, it isn't the Jehovah's Witnesses only, pedophilia and those who seek to abuse and molest children are all over the place. a JW, be it novice or advanced in the faith will not know the intent of the person of whom they are preaching to, let alone one they have evangelized.

this is the very reason I gave you an example, if you led a Church, how would you know? You remove one person will ill intent, the more converts you have, the more adherents, you would not know there intent, in this regard, child abusers.

Furthermore, if children is of your concern, you should be adhering to what Child Abuse and Neglect Services are teaching people, adhere to and educate yourself in this sense so you are better equip to deal with such things, perhaps even teach others, young or old, you can even teach a JW (perhaps teach them instead of always attacking them) because everyone deserves to, no, every must be educated in what child abuse is and understand the signs. You agreed with ARC, do you not? Then you should agree with how they themselves even point to this simple fact of educating people about child abuse, and making better clarification of things.

If there is anything a child molester likes the most, it is a child who is not educated in what child abuse is, let alone what sex is, granted by numerous cases of most children and young ones always being confused and not knowing what just happen. You can be the cause to stop the abuse, and it begins with education, adhere to it, proclaim it, teach others so they can teach themselves and to others, spread what Child Abuse Prevention teaches. If I can do such and understand that child abuse can happen anywhere, then you can do the same, but you refuse, Srecko on the other hand even mocks the information from Child Abuse and Neglect Services.

Srecko made a claim I do not care about children when I speak to and take care of them, hear their stories and what they have to say and what I teach them, especially when it comes to sex and or child abuse, they have that wisdom so that they do not make ill decisions by their own hands, for if you didn't notice even a child can become the abuser. For clearly I made it known from the source itself to which the cryptic yes-man disagrees with, even being in denial of the one of whom he supports who shares the same view as me:

 

On the other side of the spectrum, pedophilia is getting a masses following, it cannot be stop, which is the sad truth, but small instances can be prevented. For if you did not realize it, you have people who are trying to make pedophilia an okay thing, and they are doing this slowly, mainly in the US the people on the Far-Left, as they call it, is in support of this and it is seeping into the EU, including the UK, hence the gangs in question who carter to those with vile intent in regards to children.

That being said, you can do better than that and if you think a small protest that takes up aggressive church disruption as a positive thing, you should be going with another crowd, for if random church members backed out and people of the county are speaking negatively about said protest, that alone should tell you something is wrong and something is not right.

Again, better solutions, and adhere to the Bible on what it says in taking in knowledge and Wisdom, like the verses I gave Srecko on my older response in that link.

That being said, I recall telling you of what young Christian teens said about your response regarding masturbation and pornography, if you want, I can screen you the information of what they had said, about you, and what message they have for you. Chances are, you will not like it, for these teens are doing their best to educate people and your comment of which you profess to him, they did not like it. That alone speaks volumes.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Remember, by their works you will know them. I am judging the GB by their works. 

How can you say that when you made claim that you do not judge people or assume things? You do not even know who they are personally, you have never met them, if anything you recognize them through any various media about Jehovah's Witnesses and the like. Example would be one can make a judgement on a Homeless man because he takes up space on the street, his clothing is a mess and he can give a very bad order, but if someone truly knew them, spoke to get to to know them, they'd realize that the homeless man is a war veteran, who had a great family until calamity befell them, he can speak about a son and or a daughter of whom he loved but that child was perhaps killed and or had passed away, or even estranged - you wouldn't know unless you knew them.

The works of the homeless man's hands is only committed to the trash and garbage cans around him but that is not the person who is he, for he did not choose to be in that state, bad things in life led him into that position and he seeks help but does not know how to express such, perhaps, even feeling afraid and or inferior to men and women in suits walking among him, even shaming him when they do not know him.

You judge you say, but it contradicts what you had always made a stance on.

On 11/4/2018 at 8:22 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is not my place to judge you at all.

On 11/4/2018 at 10:41 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

I don't judge individuals that i don't really know, in the JW Org or outside, but I speak plainly about what i can see to be true or false. I only judge those i know as to whether i should associate with them or not.

You even made claim only God can judge you or someone else. You may as well tell us why this time, regarding religious leaders, how did you take the judgement seat of which God sits on in this case? You did claim before no one owns God, what does that make you when you go back o your own words?

you never associated yourself with those religious leaders so how would you know?

You somehow judge every JW to be alike based on your experience in perhaps a small JW church in the UK, the pastors or elders there do not represent all of them around the globe, granted there is 8.5 million of them and growing, clearly not all of them are the same people, just the same faith, nothing more.

That being said, it is understandable, according to your claim, if you really knew them - but you do not and most certainly I doubt you even confronted them, maybe outside of the UK and at their main church.

Next time always be true to your words and do not go back on them.

Like the bible says which this can relate to, let your yes mean yes, and your no mean no for this goes beyond of that of a wicked man (Matthew 5:37).

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

What would be the point of that scripture if it was not for us to judge them ?  Matthew 7 v 15 through 23.

It would be foolish to even use the Scriptures on your part granted your other statements, even your own words. For if now you are saying this and using this passage, does that make your other comments and past responses as a lie? It would not be a surprise if I bring up a single verse in this regard, let alone, it would not be a surprise if I said exactly hat Lord Christ Jesus said to Peter hen he rebuked him.

But if I had to agree with any of your statements, I agree with what you said about only God and or Jesus can judge, even you, as you speak of yourself in this sense, and like our older discussions you attested to that same claim. But here we see you make a U-turn here.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I think Jesus made it clear enough here. 

Ok. So can you explain how you said you know of whom God approves and who does not? Because if the Father knows who is for him, how can you make approval for him if you are in no such position, let alone being accpetive to claims that cannot be proven, or claims made by you that you bear no evidence to, or claims made that is false but you show yourself to be agreeing of such.

You are lucky I only see you as misguided and clearly driven by not just anger, but hatred. Therefore I withhold a single verse that can be used against you, just as I had withhold it from Witness.

I leave you with this though, you do not have to agree with your former faith, but actually have some sense to discern what is true and what is false. If former JWs said the Watchtower  has own a portion of Nintendo products and Women's Lingerie, clearly that is absurd and can easily be refuted, but those who have a and even shares a strong disdain, clearly and evident, hatred for something or someone will easily pass such off as an actual truth and will go as far as to attack others and or bystanders who are in their way.

That being said, Matthew 7:23 should not even be quoted by you. Because if everyone knows, any Christian who based their practices and or rules and or laws from the bible knows what this verse entails. You are not a fan of something Biblical - expelling. If you are against it, this verse can be applied to you as Jesus will not recognize any man or woman who shows a total disrespect and or clear ignorance of what he had entrusted the Church to do.

If the Christ showed up right now and you had issue with his command and the Laws of his Father, let alone allegedly being an Anti-Pauline when Paul was a follower of the Christ himself? What do you think, would he say these words to you? Most likely, mainly when some Christians tend to water down what the Bible says because they deem it too strict, even going as far as to take up changes, Traditions of Men, and shifting Orderly Worship of God.

One wouldn't dare do such things otherwise they will be standing in front of the white throne itself for judgement.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The GB, as you have said, are not inspired, and it would seem they are not even guided by Holy Spirit either. 

Further proves my point on how you and the others are not aware of what a modern prophet, a Christian, is spirit led. It also solidifies the ignorance of Christian history when you do not know what a Restorationist is.

Education is key and the fact that you utter such proves you lack, as you said it here.

That being said, I mentioned they are prophets not inspired and not infallible, it does not negate such ones role, especially in the history of Restorationism and they being among the only people who adhere to their roots, as spirit led Christians.To not mix or twist has witness have done countless times.

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4 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER He is linking you with them because your reaction to their comments means you agree with them, not to mention you are mentioning him when you agree with those who made the claim so seeing that the both of you are in a debate, that's a strike on you because if one goes back some pages they can see you agreed with the other guy witness or Frida. 

I don't know about the Islam thing but he even linked the thread where he explained the belief of Muslims to you, the Islam faith and he stamped out the misconceptions. Nothing there shows he is supporting Islam, but rather, explaining it, even going as far as to say we must preach to them about the Bible. You yourself even agreed with him which is odd because recently you said he is supporting Islam when what you said turned out to be false. 

Buddy, I like debates as much as the next guy but if you say something you have to back it up with proof. If I were you I'd do some edits because it may save you some time and the embarrassment. Not every day a a young guy gives advise to an adult but this one fits the bill. 

Nowhere have I shown total support for Islam, therefore John Butler's claim is as empty as a cookie jar in a Kinder Care facility, it is always empty and forever will be empty because he made the conclusion on empty facts of which he cannot even prove when he himself stated it.

It was regarding a thread of which I explained Islam to him and the belief of Muslims, I understand Muslims because I have tried to teach them the bible before. Plus young ones I speak to some of them are Muslims, and I do not go around bashing them or speaking of conspiracy, I come to common ground with them to speak of what God will soon do, just as a Jew to a Samaritan, a Christian to a Muslim.

We should be preaching the gospel, for this is what the bible says, to all people, to all nations, but somehow Mr. Butler cannot see that.

That being said, the man things explaining something and exposing falsehood and bringing forth truth is supporting. Therefore that statement alone on his part is very, very weak.

And yes, he has shown himself to agree with the others hence his own word and his own reactions to them. But hey, I am not someone who is a fan of a guy who believes God's Order should be changed, believes God sent Satan to do his bidding, believes in humans not being humans but of something else which is in opposition of the church, as well as the other guy who thinks of God's Friend as a selfish lair, and adheres to the being acceptive of something that God is clearly against, as seen in the Bible regarding Lot and what he had endured.

3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Who is Katgar?

It is Kathgar. He is an British-Pankistani Jehovah's Witness who tends to refute people in connection with debates and other things regarding Speaker's Corner, of course he does it online, but is very reserved to himself and those of his circle. Ironically enough, he does not take kindly to people who uses the bible to profess Trinitarianism and Gnosticism, granted that he, as do others, are in constant debate with the opposing groups who profess a doctrine that is not of the Bible or of the Church.

I debated against Kathgar only once (plus at the time I was unprepared of what went down that day and I had made mistakes in confusing things that I lacked in during that time), an the reason for it was due to a Agnostic, who was clearly struggling who tried to divert the debate on to someone else, only at the end, he came back to bite him. The irony is, this only open a door to learn about the more complex things in Christianity and the Bible so I can better understand things, such as questions that are posed that seem difficult and or complex, but in truth, are ridiculously easy to answer, some questions that I can answer another Christian may not even try to answer, especially Trintiarians, for such ones would be quick to denounce a prophet or someone of the Bible int his regard without understand that the answer is in plain site.

I can tell you this, you have to be very very spiritual strong to debate and or discuss matters because there will be a chance for some people who had to defend the truth of the Scriptures. and know that truth always prevail. opposers will speak of you as one who runs or flees, they will skip to insult and mock you for speaking what is true, but know this, the one who speaks truth is the real winner and the one who mocks and insults are the losers.

 

If the other person ends up attacking you, you are actually winning the debate.

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.

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