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At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?


Srecko Sostar

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9 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The GB is not there to do the parents job.

I can agree in many you have said. But JW Church want to play enormous role in life of members. In important religious things as well in private decisions of member.

You can recall in memory cartoon with Sofia (i guess) and Sunday meeting and contribution her Ice-cream money for Church. Here is one eclatante, obvious example of teaching children directly from GB (church, elders aka hierarchy). That is inadmissible interfering in parents responsibility and family life. And that is not good.

Education is another issue in what they (GB) want makes strong influence on members without any "legal" aka biblical permission to doing that.  

So, it seems how Church Leaders also don''t know, or purposely do not want to know, what IS their "business" and what is NOT. Or, in case of child molestation's and family violence want to "wash hands" as Pilate has done.

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I understand your points and you have expressed them very well. I will address each point you raised separately, but first I just want to mention a few general things which have perhaps shaped the per

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them. Kids suffer

I think this point showed excellent insight. I wondered if this is what you meant from the start. The very context shows that the type of leadership in this case is more like the local elders rather t

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12 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I have not known a website so bent on conspiracy theories. Looking back on the 80’s cannot be applied to just one view when there are still thousands around,  that lived in that era.

The suggestion the Watchtower has neglected keeping their member's information has become an excuse for modern day witnesses to pass on their responsibility. It sounds like partisanship with someone that married a Bethel member, now defends a misconception.

*** w65 5/1 pp. 259-260 Do You Get Angry over Small Things? ***

*** w75 6/1 p. 327 Insight on the News ***

Lack of Natural Affection

*** g73 1/22 p. 30 Watching the World ***

Shaking Children

This would be no different when zealous witnesses wanted to hear what they wanted to hear. No one was going to change their minds even though it was mistaken by their own understanding, not generated by any public talk people mistook.

The fact the Watchtower has been pro-family will not be overlooked by sensible witnesses, not by those dedicated to pleasing former witnesses. This should be a wakeup call to follow our hearts if the Watchtower is no longer a good source for our spiritual conviction.

It will never be enough for any disgruntled person to see the good this,  organizations have done. There’s no shock value if newspapers were available. Telnet was available before the internet came online. Now, millions of people have to sift through to make sense of all the fake news, the misrepresented and exploited Watchtower material, etc.

 

OK, so lets have some truth spoken. Does anyone on here actually know if, The situation has arisen that a person is accused of being a pedophile and it is proved to be correct. If that person is allowed to remain in the Organisation, are the members of their congregation informed that this person is a proven Pedophile. Or, are the members of the same congregation informed that there is a Pedophile within their congregation.  As far as I know the congregants are not informed... 

Now, when our children were young, we were in a congregation in Bristol. Parents were told that during meetings their children had to stay with the parents. We had five young children but the congregation was kind enough to allow the use of the 'back room' for parents to look after disruptive / unhappy children. My wife and i often spent the meeting apart, one in the main hall, the other in the back room, but at all time we had all five children with at least one of us. 

Since living here in Devon we have found that the situation is different. Children can go and sit with whomever they want. Our children are grown up of course but we have grandchildren now.  I have seen three of our granddaughters all sitting separately with different people. This is helpful to their mother as her husband is not a Witness and does not attend meetings. But it does leave the situation wide open to one of those girls being abused, if mum doesn't know who she can trust and who she should not trust. 

So, in my opinion, the GB,  Organisation, Congregation Elders, have a Duty of Care, to inform the congregants if there is a Pedophile in their congregation. However i do not believe the congregants are informed. 

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2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If you look back at what the Watchtower has done without the need for the government to intervene, this question would not be asked. The Watchtower has obeyed the secular law as defined by Christ. No one should be a lawbreaker regardless if it's secular or biblical.

 

This includes having to be part of conspiracy theories. Many things have been implied here that are completely taken out of context to make an argument. This is dishonesty. Exaggeration is dishonesty, accepting tampered internet propaganda is dishonesty.

 

The Watchtower doesn’t need the government to tell it what to do, but they do make adjustments to the laws given. This is no different than us obeying local laws when changes are made. Do we not accept them and make adjustments? Or do we not agree with them and become a lawbreaker?

 

 

I think you have misunderstood my question brother...I just dont understand why Brother Jackson advised the Australian Government to make it mandatory in every state to report....why don’t we just do that ourselves..worldwide...

I also think we should be allowed to ask such honest question without being accused of engaging in conspiracy theories...

I totally back you as far as the great deceiver being at work on the internet..causing divisions and doubts amongs Jehovah’s people...there is no forum on the internet that is safe...

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24 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

OK, so lets have some truth spoken. Does anyone on here actually know if, The situation has arisen that a person is accused of being a pedophile and it is proved to be correct. If that person is allowed to remain in the Organisation, are the members of their congregation informed that this person is a proven Pedophile. Or, are the members of the same congregation informed that there is a Pedophile within their congregation.  As far as I know the congregants are not informed... 

Now, when our children were young, we were in a congregation in Bristol. Parents were told that during meetings their children had to stay with the parents. We had five young children but the congregation was kind enough to allow the use of the 'back room' for parents to look after disruptive / unhappy children. My wife and i often spent the meeting apart, one in the main hall, the other in the back room, but at all time we had all five children with at least one of us. 

Since living here in Devon we have found that the situation is different. Children can go and sit with whomever they want. Our children are grown up of course but we have grandchildren now.  I have seen three of our granddaughters all sitting separately with different people. This is helpful to their mother as her husband is not a Witness and does not attend meetings. But it does leave the situation wide open to one of those girls being abused, if mum doesn't know who she can trust and who she should not trust. 

So, in my opinion, the GB,  Organisation, Congregation Elders, have a Duty of Care, to inform the congregants if there is a Pedophile in their congregation. However i do not believe the congregants are informed. 

It is my understanding that they do it privately ...perhaps you could keep your granddaughters by your side at the meetings ...you also have a duty of care...

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11 hours ago, Thinking said:

Pearl has relayed to me personaly that she does not study the Bible as she does not have time..when some one writes to her and asks a question..she sits at the table with pen and paper and writes....she stated she does not even know what she has written a lot of the time...until she reads it.

Is Holy Spirit dead?  Was it dead when Jesus “breathed” Holy Spirit onto his disciples?   John 20:21-23  Simply because the GB admit to not being inspired by Holy Spirit does not mean that Christ has abandoned all anointed ones, to the spirit of the world. 

Firstly, I know Pearl personally.  She writes on computers unless one has been hacked or crashed, or is not available, and she has many broken ones to prove it.    I also keep paper and pen handy to jot down my thoughts. Even though I am not a writer, what writer would not do so?  What genuine inspired of God anointed one, would not do so if Holy Spirit leads one in thought and understanding? 

If she is “inspired” what do you think that means?  She is guided in knowledge of scriptural truth and its understanding by HOLY SPIRIT.  So, too, were the apostles and all whom God “inspired”.  So, too, was John the Baptist.  So, too, are those anointed who “prophesy” during the last days.  Rev 11:1-3; Matt 17:10,11; John 14:26; Acts 2:17

But remember, this would not be the GB, since they are not inspired...and they mean, by Holy Spirit. Yet, they are inspired by another spirit, from the father of the lie.   They are demon-inspired.   Joh 8:44; Rev 16: 13,14,16; 20:8  They are the genuine “human apostates” in “Satan’s kitchen of lies”, cooking up another round of rotten fruit.

Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons”  1 Tim 4:1

 Do you know how this is manifested in the Watchtower?  It’s called "spirit-channeling", and has been going on for years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFMQnZbyRko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkSmW4XlS8c&t=11s

There are many stories emerging about individuals being used as “channelers” by governing body members.  Even members of the GB have been “channelers”.      Luke 8:17  One person was used to write the Revelation Book, a collection of rotten “fruit” and “fabricated stories”, that has since been discarded.  Matt 7:15,20; 2 Pet 2:1-4

Their stories are graphic and dark.  You can search them out, or you can search out light that Christ is providing from those inspired by Holy Spirit.  Rev 1:1,2; Mal 3:1-5

Have you ever compared the amount of scriptures one Watchtower study provides, against the amount used by Pearl in one article?  There is no comparison.  To say she doesn’t read the Bible is a lie, or you are misinterpreting her words; she is allowed understanding by God.  And, if anyone already has scriptures sunk into her head, or is prompted to recall them, it is Pearl. If you have a facebook account, you can see her comments about studying the Bible, here:   https://www.facebook.com/groups/restorationofjacob/permalink/1101362280037034/

Jesus was accused of having an “unclean spirit” by those he said were children of the devil. Mark 3:30  It is no different for a mere woman, chosen by God and blessed with spiritual understanding to receive the same treatment by the GB and JWs.

"It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house 'Beelzebul,' how much more the members of his household!”  Matt 20:25

This the pattern that the GB practice against the anointed ones who reject their lies.  While in the Watchtower, they are useless.  Christ’s priests/Temple are absolutely useless, except to offer rotten fruit that a wicked slave provides. Matt 24:48-51; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:17  Whatever Holy Spirit resides in their heart is not used.  When it emerges through an outspoken one who has revealed this fact by the power of Holy Spirit, that one is called a “human apostate” by the wicked slave and "killed"/disfellowshipped.  Rev 11:1-3,7  Do you want to chime in along with them?

“Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”  Mark 3:28,29

 We each see what we want to see, according the spirit that we allow to fill our heart.  We each have a choice of  "fruit" from anointed teachers.  Do you really believe that authentic truth is the easiest to find and ingest, when Satan desires to destroy it with lies?   Matt 12:34; Luke 21:8; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Matt 15:13,14 

Can you not see that he will line the path of his lies with the "desire of the eyes" from the world?  Where is your organization standing, but in the world?  The WT leader's  have built their golden calf using the slavery of people and their valuables.  Rom 6:16

"For everything that is in the world—the desire for fleshly gratification, the desire for possessions, and worldly arrogance—is not from the Father but is from the world.And the world and its desires are fading away, but the person who does God’s will remains forever." 1 John 2:16,17

Pearl is doing God's will, unlike WT's leaders who are building their empire on the shifting sand of lies.  Luke 6:47-49 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Thinking said:

It is my understanding that they do it privately ...perhaps you could keep your granddaughters by your side at the meetings ...you also have a duty of care...

I no longer attend meetings due to the Child Abuse problem earthwide in the JW Org. I left the Org in January of this year. I could not be part of what I'd found about. I could not encourage other people in to such dangerous situations. 

If i had stayed I would have passed on information to other congregants, then I would have been disfellowshipped for 'Causing a division within the congregation'. It was better for me to leave of my own choice and be free to use my own voice to tell anyone that would listen.

I could have stayed and become completely inactive, a Jehovah's bystander. But that would have silenced me, and by doing so, make me part of the problem. In my opinion if a person knows of danger but keeps quiet then they are almost as bad as the ones causing the danger. 

Many here say I am giving false alarms, but we each have to weigh up the situation and deal with it as we think best. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Witness said:

Do you know how this is manifested in the Watchtower?  It’s called "spirit-channeling", and has been going on for years.

It has been a while since I listened in to these videos.  But, I recall how he was struggling to understand why this is happening at Bethel.  One of his conclusions about Moses and Joshua are not something that I would agree with.  I posted these to show the main issue, but as I recall, I do not necessarily agree with his application of scripture.   

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20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Ok, that is nice hope.

Oh indeed it is, and I believe that God will rid the wickedness that pains mankind, unfortunately for you and Butler you seem to not believe it at all, therefore shows you do not truly take into account of the Bible whatsoever.

I believe every word that comes from the Bible and have the mental capacity to understand it, thus taking in Spiritual Wisdom, as Butler claimed, and unlike some, I am not ignorant to what the Bible says, nor do I display the lukewarm nonsense that is displayed by some.

 

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What is the reason that God's Kingdom watching all these misery, pain and tears of children who suffer?

That is the best you can do, Srecko? If I didn't care for children I would not be speaking to them to up-build them, let alone help them out for the years that I have, so they would not succumb to gang affiliation and or go about brazen conduct themselves - becoming the better versions of themselves and be a positive mentor to others. We teach and instruct our children so they can better themselves and do this accordingly by means of making the right decisions and understanding good from bad. Other than that even my own culture does not even condone withholding aid to the youth, keep that in mind because I remember telling Witness the same thing who assumes I do not care for women because of pronunciations and typos in my responses of which he used hypocritically before to make a point which failed.


That being said, we have to wait for the Kingdom because us of mankind do and cannot do some things, one of these things is clearing an obvious imperfection totally, to which both you and Butler remain ignorant of that simple fact. The day comes when you can stop such things by your own hand only then you can say something without the mental gymnastics you are posing now.

I you do not believe, and if Butler does not believe, it will not hinder my belief in what God will do and it will not hinder my ability to help out our youth so they do not become another statistic, another victim, another criminal, what have you.

Not so much of a charming example, now are you, Srecko. Helping our children in this way you are against. Faith in some in humanity is indeed lost.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

(waiting to see would your possible respond will be the same as WT publication explanation :::)))))

Can you prove that it is the same when I am pulling information from an actual Child Abuse Prevention source? Your ignorance is most likely bigger than the very Moon that God put above our heads, Srecko.

My other response was Child Abuse and Neglect websites in addition to Biblical application when it comes to teaching children in regards to wisdom. And bringing up the Watchtower cannot help you with what I made a response to previously, for if you truly cared about child abuse, you'd take into account one primary solution is to educate, I can say this to Butler he agreed with me last time, but I find it no surprise that the man who believes in sex change is cool with God is capable of teaching children, let alone your clear belief in undeath - remember you exposed yourself for believing in this - not me.


That being said, I am happy you moved on from the main focus of child abuse in terms of my own response using the very source itself, for it shows that it does not concern you so next time you want to say someone does not care of young people, make sure that person is not someone who adhere to the child abuse prevention.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Next. You said GK is ONLY who can clear all that. So, in other words it is the same as you or someone else say how all efforts that people doing is in vain, useless at the end of day.

Granted I spoke of solutions in terms of educating our children, I believe that we should be going about the issue the smart way - this goes for other things also outside of the realm of abuse.


Educating our children isn't useless, for if that was the case, it would make you the problem in this regard. To not teach our children about such things, about strangers and child abuse, even about sex, we make them a target if we don't. The very reason as to why various instances take place online and in person is because most parents and guardians do not educate their children, for example, just a few days ago you had a child cussing at a teacher and calling him a racial slur due to his skin color as seen here:

But you and Butler do not believe in educating our children to better themselves, therefore, stuff like this will happen.

When we educate our children, they do not end up in this nature, thus making them upright due to us up-building them, in this same sense, when we teach our children about child abuse, it decreases the chance that they become a target of abuse, if we teach our child about sex even talk to them about it, it decreases the chance end up going about intercourse with someone of the opposite sex, even worse someone of the same sex, therefore when we teach they do not end up doing these things, whereas other situations will be regarding abortion and various things out of wedlock, and most importantly, when we teach our children about strangers, it decreases them being a victim to kidnappers and or the like.


But truly I say to you, if you and Butler really cared, you be openly agreeing to one education being a primary tool, for this same tool does not help the parent/guardian, it also helps other adults who do not know how to identify the problem.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

By that logic, God will not blessed or guide or  inspired nothing and nobody in their efforts that this monstrous and evil problem be "solved" or at least minimized. Because, all blessing is on future Kingdom and not on  this, today human now living on Earth. 

Logic? Since when you take this into account when you are showing hypocrisy to something that is of betterment? But you, just now, shown yourself to be in denial of an actual and yet effective effort, as with things intertwined with it. So you just proven yourself by your silly logic of your own to discredit something that people are actually doing, in the US, in the UK, in the majority of the EU, the Mother Land, and Asia, even the Middle East, granted the situation with Syranic Christians and others.

So I ask you, why is educating our children about child abuse such a bad thing according to you and why is it that we ignore the Bible that makes it clear that brazen conduct exists, or the fact that wisdom is very important?

You make yourself a hypocrite now because of your pass statements, although cryptic, stands against what you say here now. Perhaps you will delete them too if I quote you, and you will state you it was a mistake maybe?

That being said, yes the Kingdom is to come and it will help us out greatly, until you can stop a war and famine Srecko, they you will be in the right, but right now, you haven't proven anything and my last statement, coupled with Child Abuse Prevention sources stated against you like the great wall of China, therefore, anything in this regard in an attempt to discredit fails compared to why I made a response to.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Out of this subject. But you are talking so much of JW as "Restorationist" christian group. Web provide me this:

"Restorationist" denominations include:


Yes they are Restorationist and they are to this day. The early Church believe in one God and One Christ and put into application of the teachings.

Also what makes you even more of a hypocrite, you merely pulled names from those who came form the Restorationist Movement, the same one I told you time and time again all of which came from the Great Awakening, minus one you linked, and that SAME information even tells you who actually is keeping up with their Restorationist roots and who is not regarding the early apostolic church.

Before your claims get scatter again I will make it known to you what the Didache actually is - a second time

The Didache

The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles

(60 - 120 A.D.)

And concerning baptism, baptize as follows: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water. And if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else is able, but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

And concerning the Eucharist... "We thank You, our Father, for the holy vine of David Your servant-son, which You made known to us through Jesus Your servant-son. To You be the glory for ever."

And concerning the broken Bread: "We thank You, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You made known to us through Jesus Your servant-son, to You be the glory for ever. Just as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Your church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Your Kingdom for Yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ forever." 

We thank You, Holy Father, for Your holy name you that made to tabernacle in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality, which you revealed to us through Jesus Your servant-son. Glory to You forever and ever. You, Almighty Lord, have created all things for Your own name's sake, You gave food and drink to men for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to You, but to us You freely gave spiritual food and drink and life eternal through Your servant-son. Above all things we thank You that You are mighty. Glory to You forever and ever.... Hosanna to the God of David.
 

The early church believed in the teachings of the Church. They believed that God is the Father and Jesus is His Son. They do not adhere to Traditions of Men and they strive to keep to the teachings of the Church even if it means to defend and restore sacred trusut, just as our Church Fathers have before us.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The Christadelphians,

They had long fallen from their Restorationist roots for in the apostolic church, they believe Jesus came from God whereas this denomination does not believe in pre-existence as the early church has, instead, they believe that Jesus only came into existence when Mary conceived him. I already stated this several times before, so you are not only incorrect, you failed to try and equate a Christology you have not even spared a second to read into, mind you, the one you claim to go to the website for, therefore, the ignorance is obvious.

Due to the way the Christadelphian body is organised there is no central authority to establish and maintain a standardised set of beliefs and it depends upon what statement of faith is adhered to and how liberal the ecclesia is, but there are core doctrines most Christadelphians would accept.

The Christadelpians belief on Satan The Devil: Christadelphians believe that the Satan or Devil is not an independent spiritual being or fallen angel. Devil is viewed as the general principle of evil and inclination to sin which resides in humankind. They are convinced that, dependent on the context, the term Satan in Hebrew merely means "opponent" or "adversary" and is frequently applied to human beings. Accordingly, they do not define hell as a place of eternal torment for sinners, but as a state of eternal death respectively non-existence due to annihilation of body and mind.

So be very honest with yourself, if you still think they are Restorationist when their view does not even line up with the apostolic church let alone what the Bible says regarding a number of things, how can you make and or believe the claim they are restoring the teachings?

Your own Bible even tells you Jesus was tempted by the Devil, and we already seen he Devil's actions in the Old and New Testament and what is to become of him. As pointed out to Witness, The devil will be imprisoned in an abyss by the Christ, therefore it does not line up with Restorationism believe that Satan is a fallen angel, but to them, a principle of evil.

To add more fuel to the fire, perhaps your own hypocrisy of, as Butler puts it, lack of Spiritual Wisdom, in addition to your lack of  elementary Theological studies in Christian history, they do not believe in pre-existence, yet the early church understands what angelic agency is. So how does that add up, Srecko?

Here's a wisdom cookie on biblical facts (a term you have a clear disdain for): Christadelpians belief on Pre-exustence: The Christadelphian denial of the pre-existence of Christ.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ),


They are interfaith hence the merging of faiths that have done. They adhere to the Oneness, in turn, the Trinity Doctrine that is not of the Apostolic Church and they are openly accepting of same sex marriage (granted you do support this to some degree with your past statement on God being okay with it).


Restorationist that follow the church do not believe in the Trinity, nor the Oneness Doctrine.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Churches of Christ,

Otherwise known as Baptist Christians originated from the Restorationist Movement, but they do not apply the Restorationism teaches granted that they are not Non-Trinitarian. They believe that the Trinity is vital for their salvation and to anyone who think otherwise, you tend to get colorful responses.


FACT: Historically, Baptists have played a key role in encouraging religious freedom and separation of church and state, according to Religion Facts, 10 January 2010.

Since there is no hierarchical authority and each Baptist church is autonomous, there is no official set of Baptist theological beliefs. These differences exist both among associations, and even among churches within the associations.


Among the Baptist, there are some doctrinal issues that variety among them:

 

  • Eschatology,
  • Calvinism in contrast to Arminianism,
  • The doctrine of separation from the world/ whether to associate with those who are of the world,
  • They also take up peaking-in-tongues and the operation of other charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit in the modern church
  • How the Bible should be interpreted (hermeneutics)
  • The extent to which missionary boards should be used to support missionaries
  • The extent to which non-members may participate in the Lord's Supper services
  • Which translation of Scripture to use (King-James-Only movement) otherwise known as KJV-Onlyists.
  • Dispensationalism in contrast to Covenant Theology
  • The role of women in marriage.
  • The ordination of women as deacons or pastors (granted both you and Witness fits this category)
  • Attitudes to, and involvement in the Ecumenical Movement (This one, Srecko, you should know because you I even explained this to you before because you couldn't tell the difference in this regard and to the Catholics - thus you are in hypocrisy.)

Remember what I told you "The Protest isn't Over"
 

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The Community of Christ,

 Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS), is an American-based church that is international with roots in the Latter Day Saint movement (LDS).


The church traces does not trace back to it's Restorationist roots - that is the apostolic church. but rather its origins is traced back to Joseph Smith's church that was establishment of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1830, whereas reorganization was in motion in 1860 - by just 30 years apart. When Joseph Smith died in 1844 the road to reformation and to be reorganized took place, hence the name RLDS -Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


The Apoptotic Church recognize only the Father is God and that Jesus is His Son, for Restorationist are borderline Suborinationist, which means to believe that the Father is greater than the Son and or above the Son, granted the Bible even tells you that God the Father is greater than all, even Jesus says this. But this isn't the case with the RLDS. They believe in the Trinity, granted their Christology and Theological practice is Trinitarian as well as Mormonism and granted they are organized, they have a religious leader by the name of Stephen M. Veazey, who is deemed an "inspired prophet".


They are separated from

  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
  • Josephite sects (such as Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints)
  • Restoration branches and Church of Jesus Christ (Zion's Branch)

The Community of Christ teaches that the one eternal living God is triune (The apostolic church does not believe in the Triune nor does anyone who adheres to Restorationism and keep to the roots of the Church).

It acknowledges God, who is a community of three persons, as the Creator and the Source of love, life, and truth.
It states that his/this God alone is worthy of worship. Jesus Christ is described as both Savior and as a living expression of God and is acknowledged as having lived, died, and been resurrected. As the name of the denomination implies, Jesus Christ is central to its members' study and worship. The Community of Christ's Theology Task Force states that Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh, both fully human and fully divine.
The Holy Spirit is described as the continuing presence of God in the world and as the source of divine inspiration.
They believe in Worth of All Persons, for the Community of Christ states that God loves each of us equally and unconditionally. All persons have great worth and should be respected as creations of God with basic human rights. The willingness to love and the acceptance of others is essential to faithfulness to the gospel of Christ.
Recognizing that scripture has sometimes been used to marginalize and oppress classes of persons, the church accepted this statement into the Doctrine and Covenants in 2007, which reads:


It is not pleasing to God when any passage of scripture is used to oppress races, genders, or classes of human beings. Many violent acts have been committed against some of God's beloved children through the misuse of scripture. The church is called to confess and repent of such attitudes and practices.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS),

Practically identical to the one above, but a different leader, Warren Steed Jeffs, and the group as a whole Christology is based on Mormon fundamentalism whereas its orientation is based on the LDS.


The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS Church) is one of the largest organizations in the US whereas it's members practice polygamy as well as take up plural and or forced marriages.


The FLDS Church emerged in the 20th century when some of their members left The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The split up was the result  of the LDS Church's suspension of the practice of polygamy and its decision to excommunicate members who continued the practice.

It is also safe to mention that the Southern Poverty Law Center added the FLDS to the list of Hate Groups for reasons that are obvious, a few days ago I was confronted by an FLDS member, ironically enough, granted why I said what I said previously about that individual getting schooled, bionically, when he tried to berate me due to the color of my skin and my knowledgeable, whom Butler, like this man, thinks I am pretending.


Not to mention plural/forced marriages.

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ,

The group in question is already mentioned above. The fact that you made comment on this and not know their history thus proves your ignorance and utter hypocrisy.


This is why it can be said not just of some people, but such ones like you who do not know not just your own history, but Christian history as well.

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

International Churches of Christ,

They believe they are non-denominational, they do not and or even reject the apostolic church, they are believers of once saved always saved, hence the saying saved by the grace of God and they integrate the church, as I pointed out to John Butler who had no idea of what Interfaith implies, the ICoC adheres to Interfaith, and they had a strong presence in Kairos 2017 (https://www.kairos2017.com/) [Kansas City, MO] and Together 2016 (Washington DC), an event Pope Francis took part in and is somehow the one taking the lead in this sense, with PEAK following just last month in October 2018 in Texas.

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jehovah's Witnesses,

You know them already granted you were one. But as some Jehovah's Witnesses, even former ones like you and Butler, perhaps Witness even, are ignorant of your own history, in your case, granted you do not know the practices of Restorationist Christians in a true sense, you make yourself to appear ignorant.


Anyways, Jehovah's Witnesses emerged as a distinct religious organization, maintaining control of Russell's Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and other corporations. They continued to develop doctrines that they considered to be an improved restoration of first century Christianity, including increased emphasis on the use of Jehovah as God's personal name.
 

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Seventh-day Adventists,

Now the SDA are technically like JWs, in this sense, consider them JWs that believe in the Trinity - shocking, I know.
The Seventh-Day Adventist and its Church originated from the Adventist movement, in addition to that they have Protestant views. Important to the Seventh-day Adventist movement is a belief in progressive revelation, as well with the  teaching that the Christian life and testimony is intended to be typified by the Spirit of Prophecy. Not to mention that  the SDA church operates schools including post-secondary institutions, hospitals, and publishing houses around the globe, moreover, they are in conjunction with humanitarian aid organization known as ADRA, which stands for Adventist Development and Relief Agency.


FACT: The teachings and writings of White, ultimately proved influential in shifting the church from largely semi-Arian roots towards Trinitarianism. Adventists, for the most part, credit her with bringing the Seventh-Day Adventist church into a more comprehensive awareness of the GodHead during the 1890s. The Adventist Church adopted Trinitarian theology early in the 20th century and began to dialogue with other Protestant groups toward the middle of the century, eventually gaining wide recognition as a Protestant church. Christianity Today recognized the Seventh-day Adventist church as " the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide" in its January 22, 2015 issue.
FACT: Although the Bible speaks of Christians being of Spiritual Israel, SDA tends to be a mix of both due to their practices therefore, thus including the practices of that have already been abolished by the New Law.
That being said to some extent, they also believe in the chosen ones going to heaven while most of their members also believe they too will go to heaven, although they know hell is not the place of torment, they tend to believe this too. a Clear example is partaking the Sabbath, which is no longer required among Christians.

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons)

They believe in the Trinity, they do not preach the good news gospel, they believe God had multiple wives and women, especially in heaven, and was the one to mate with Mary to convince Jesus, they allow the Laws of Levites, their leader received a revelation from angels, when the Bible said otherwise that such things is accursed. They had long fallen from their Restorationism roots and have never applied the apostolic teachings and practices.


Why even mention them if you cannot even see the history with them?

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

etc.

Come on then, link some more, I want to see how well you are with the little you know about Christian History.


A Restorationist is those who hold true to the teachings of the Church. They believe God is the Father and Jesus is his Son. They believe that Jesus pre-existed and that fact that Jesus is a subordinate of the Father. They believe that Satan the Devil is actually a fallen angel, not some influence and or unknown presence or the brother of God. They believe that Jesus will indeed return to rid the world of wickedness JUST AS THE Samaritans of old and present Day. The Apostolic Church does not adhere to Traditions of Men and they ARE the type to learn and apply teachings of which they were not sure of or unaware of before until they studied, Eusebius the Church Father is an example.


The list goes on, but even when it is said here and before, you remain ignorant to the simple fact of what actually is a Restorationist Christian. Granted the fact that I speak about the early church time and time again, you'd get a clue, but you did not. The silliness shows, Srecko.
 

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am not sure that JWorg would be happy to be in same "pot" with this other denominations.  Because, according to WT only JW teaching "the truth", and no one else on this list  :))

That is because they aren't in the same pot - the same case can be made with Unitarians and Muslims. Anyone who is honest will take the time to recognize the difference. Who is doing what and who isn't, at the same time understanding where one is coming from and the like, what is accursed and what isn't.

Most Restorationist are Non-Trinitarian (otherwise known as Anti-Trinitarian) and they do not accept anything that isn't of and or in application of the apostolic church, for instance, we have SDA who integrated the Trinity thus devoiding themselves of their strive to be like the apostolic church, or you have the LDS who actually believe God has multiple wives and was the one cause Mary to convince Jesus without use of the Holy Spirit, when the bible tells you otherwise and gives a clear example of what the Angel did to the daughters of the earth and the end result, moreover, NO ONE from the apostolic church receives direction from angels granted Paul made this clear that even if a message comes from an Angel - it is accursed.

Srecko, you have proven yourself to be ignorant of the very history of Christendom, perhaps if we are to speak of Islam you'd fail in this notion to, just as Ryan and Butler have who were also ignorant to fact.


Also just to clarify, Protestants believe in the Trinity also, clearly clinging true to it's Reformationist roots, not the early church.


 

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42 minutes ago, Witness said:

Is Holy Spirit dead?  Was it dead when Jesus “breathed” Holy Spirit onto his disciples?   John 20:21-23  Simply because the GB admit to not being inspired by Holy Spirit does not mean that Christ has abandoned all anointed ones, to the spirit of the world. 

This is where you are twisting this, they never admit to being inspired prophets, and I am sure all the facts provided to you several times before thus proofs this point.

The Holy Spirit did not die, it was the Christ who did, but only made alive because God's hand in Jesus' resurrection.

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@JOHN BUTLER Keep in mind that Zechariah was speaking in regards to Spiritual Israel.

21 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The thing is Srecko, SM doesn't believe the JW's have it right, or he would be one. :) 

So do JWs some, how believe God now has accumulated wives in heaven, going with Srecko's assumptions since now you seem to be buddies with a man who believes in both undeath and God not caring about psychical sex changes?

 

This I'd like to see.

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5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

However, the point of the greater good is being missed

I made comment about Education and Money Contribution. Greater good to who/whom? 

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The Watchtower is not telling anyone what to do, they are merely suggesting what the joy it is to serve God properly.

Yes they telling members what to do by repetitive suggestible words in printing,  pictorially (cartoons, movies) and in verbal ways. 

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It comes to this; do you prefer a child to use their ice cream money to contribute to helping others? Or would it be better for children to be exploited by buying a violent video game?

No no! You used the wrong way of illustration. Using these two extremes, you, intentionally or accidentally, directing the reader to go to the wrong way of thinking and to make wrong conclusion.

In first example, ("to use their ice cream money to contribute to helping others") a child can buy ice cream with that money and share it with another child and thus trained to show generosity and selflessness. Or he can save the money he receives from his parents and donate money or a gift to someone who does not have enough. Donating Money to WT Corporation is not an act of helping the poor or others. Helping the poor was one of the great features of the church in the 1st century. Charity position and not paying taxes, of WT and all sister Companies around the World, because of such status before secular government, not making WT real Charity institution, as one who giving people of all sort shelter or food or clothes and similar. Watchtower, JWorg and CCJW (to mentioned this few), as worldwide famous entities, are NOT Charity in true sense of what word charity means.   

a system of giving money, food, or help free to those who are in need because they are ill, poor, or have no home, or any organization that has the purpose of providing money or helping in this way - https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/charity

Furthermore, as a second part of the illustration you mention, ("exploited by buying a violent video game"). This would mean that JW parents would be in position to finance their children for purchasing such games and how such parents do not care what their children are doing or that they are irresponsible and negligent because they allow their children to buy bad things, or how they are easily subject to "worldly" influence and the influence of the trading world and consumerism.

Do you think so about all JW parents or just for some of them?! If yes, why that? Because by giving this sort of illustration on JW parents and their children,  you put a bad light on the JW family as people who will spend money on bad things  if they do not donate it to the Organization.  :)))

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