Jump to content
The World News Media

JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"


Jack Ryan

Recommended Posts


  • Views 12.3k
  • Replies 176
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

First of all, before I begin answering, I wanted to say that I have long expected that any JWs who go online to defend their views publicly will see more and more of what is beginning to happen here.

The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view. Apart from what has already been quoted

Yes. I wrote up a post on this at the time and included how other translations handled the verse. An excerpt:   (from https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/who-is-mentally-diseased.html ) “Mor

Posted Images

  • Member
2 hours ago, Witness said:

To clarify, each person in our household left the organization for different reasons.  Can a disfellowshipped person influence another to lose their “faith” in the organization?  Yes; however, my spiritual decisions for leaving are not at all the same reasons why the other three left. And, I was not the first to leave.  Each one of us, saw specific flaws in a belief system that caused us to doubt God’s involvement in…hypocrisy, rules applied by men that went against sound reasoning, rules established according to men’s doctrine and not according to scripture. The result is, two in the house have no more belief in God or Christ.  One has retained a belief, but struggles in making it a central part of life. 

The organization’s record of unsound and failed/changed teachings, and failures in shepherding, are generally what bring forth doubt and lack of faith in God and Christ. Each one of these listed, causes spiritual ‘infection’.  To think JWs are immune to this, is fallacy. 

My husband had a CT scan a while back.  This was to be beneficial in finding the reason he was sick, by locating and identifying the disease.  Yet, the requirement of an iodine contrast which is used to enhance the scan’s ability to detect abnormalities, resulted in severe reactions.  The fluid flushed through his veins caused side effects that are still with him two months later. The CT scan had its advantages in targeting the disease, but the harsh reactions he experienced also left its visible mark, since his entire body is covered in large rashes – a form a dermatitis that doctors say needs to be fought with more drugs. We have chosen an alternative route to treat it, using natural remedies.

Who would have thought that something routinely prescribed as providing beneficial results, would also produce such harm?  Because the WT has targeted and explained a handful of false teachings in religions, the majority of JWs adopt the belief that all WT’s teachings must be fully beneficial, aiding one to recover from say, “christendom’s” lies.    Since we know a lie is a lie, and wrong teachings remain wrong teachings, and the organization has had its large share in wrong teachings (lies), a JW’s faith is not immune to experiencing spiritual infection from a bad dose of wrong information (rotten fruit/poisoned waters), accompanying a known truth.  God’s word does not condone building our faith on a little truth and a lot of lies.  (Matt 12:33,34; Luke 6:43-45)  Can you imagine Jesus saying to his apostles, “Oh, go ahead and partake of the leaven of the Pharisees…because they will still produce some truth”? (Matt 16:6,12;7:20; Luke 6:47-49)  For the most part, JWs will not notice how they are spiritually infused with paltry waters/teachings that had no advantage in beneficially aiding the growth of one’s faith; unless one  is putting faith and trust in an organization.  In that case, there is always a promise of good things that men will produce, and which places a bandaid over the 'infection' resulting from bad teachings.  (Jer 6:14; Ezek 13:10)  

Jesus spoke of “living waters” that would be evident in those anointed whom he sends.   No side effects, no ‘infections’, but only teachings that build upon teachings, and all are truth. (Matt 10:40,41; John 15:16)   

 

“On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus was standing in the temple courtyard. He said loudly, “Whoever is thirsty must come to me to drink. 38 As Scripture says, ‘Streams of living water will flow from deep within the person who believes in me.’” 39 Jesus said this about the Spirit, whom his believers would receive.”  John 7:37-39a 

 Many in the organization are becoming alert and keenly aware of painful results from the absolute “bitter” waters they have been ingesting and seek other means to remedy the resulting effects.  In my household there are four examples of how one leaves the WT and pursues relief from spiritual “infection”.  Not all of them are on a right path; but neither are those tolerating contaminated waters in the WT.  (Jer 23:14-22)  If the GB truly adhered themselves to the teachings of Christ, as they say they do, they would undoubtedly, and continually, produce “living waters” -  pure, and trustworthy. (John 4:14; 6:63; 2 Cor 4:7; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:21,22; Rev 22:17) If excuses are made for their falsehoods, then there is total disregard for the promise Jesus gave us, that he would provide reliable Truth in those whom he sends. (Matt 21:33-45)  There would be no need for a persuasive ‘lecture’ about whom we should trust, as Gerrit Losch felt necessary to convey. John 15:5

 “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled”  Heb 12:14-15

“Bitterness” - acridity (especially poison), literally or figuratively:—bitterness.

“Defiled” -   contaminate 

The root of the “trouble” and divisions caused among disgruntled members who leave the WT, falls on the shoulders of the GB, and the elder body that dispenses the GB's “waters”.  (Rom 16:17;Jude 1:17-19; Rev 8:10,11; 13:11,12,16,17; 17:15)  If we continue to apathetically believe we can spiritually thrive on WT’s infected waters, then our spiritual outcome falls on our shoulders.  (Heb 4:12; Rev 18:4-8)

 

 

 Of interest - " Locust - Scorpions " / " Abaddon " / " fallen star " / " Wormwood "

Pearl Doxsey,  4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

 

 

If you have a 'household' of 4 people that are all non JW's then you have communication and friendship amongst you.

There are probably two things that keep people in the Org.

1. It is like a social club where people spend time together when not in 'service' or meetings. They go shopping, have parties, visit each other, hence they are UPBUILT, not by the false spiritual food from the GB / elders, but by the day to day activities of a kind of friendship with other JW's.  

2. The fear of losing everyone that they had associated with, thereby having no contacts / friends, and possibly family. Also as has been mentioned in another topic, the fear of loss of business when one does lots of business with brothers and sisters. 

I think some call it, physically in / mentally out or spiritually out. So just using the 'contacts' inside, not using the fake spiritual blurb... 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
28 minutes ago, Witness said:

They will pull another wild card from their sleeve – another David Splane with a chart.......

Will JWs show good sense and finally realize they have been defrauded of truth…for years

Not if you take what they say as speculation on their part. Which is what I think it is. Anyone has the right to speculate. I have no qualms telling Br.Splane that I think his chart is based on speculation. And I'm sure he'd reply that that's my opinion. In which case he is right too. No harm done, we both have our opinion. It's not as if "the Generation" is a fundamental teaching required for salvation is it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would never denigrate human rights. I like those things. Life is easier when they are respected. But I prefer the term Golden Rule. It preserves all that is noble about human rights while discarding all that is pretentious. 

Finnaly, i can give you one Up-Vote :)))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
17 minutes ago, Anna said:

Not if you take what they say as speculation on their part. Which is what I think it is. Anyone has the right to speculate. I have no qualms telling Br.Splane that I think his chart is based on speculation. And I'm sure he'd reply that that's my opinion. In which case he is right too. No harm done, we both have our opinion. It's not as if "the Generation" is a fundamental teaching required for salvation is it?

Isn’t this teaching served on “Jehovah’s rich spiritual table”?  Isn’t it based on a principle that is part of the foundation of the organization?  1914?  Every teaching on generation revolves around this date, and if anyone verbally rejects this date, they can be disfellowshipped.  

  • Partake appreciatively of the spiritual food available only at Jehovah’s table, and you will not be misled by false teachers or wicked spirit forces. w06 11/15 pp. 21-25
  • “When I go to Christian meetings, conventions, and assemblies and I am able to feast at Jehovah’s spiritual table, this really refreshes me spiritually,” she observes. w02 9/15 pp. 8-9

Can a typical JW distinguish between what is served on “Jehovah’s spiritual table” and what is concocted from the minds of men?  Yes, anyone has the right to speculate, but does the GB encourage it?  Are you even suppose to “go there” and "speculate" otherwise?

Why should we be on guard if someone begins to speculate or to speak critically?

We are nearing the outbreak of the great tribulation and the end of this wicked system, so those inspired warnings given in the first century take on greater significance. We definitely do not want to ‘miss the purpose’ of Jehovah’s undeserved kindness and lose out on the promise of everlasting life, be that in heaven or on earth. (2 Cor. 6:1) If ever someone attending our congregation meetings would try to entice us into discussions of personal speculations or critical conversations, we should definitely be on guard." w13 12/15 p. 9

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
3 hours ago, Witness said:

"On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus was standing in the temple courtyard. He said loudly, “Whoever is thirsty must come to me to drink. 38 As Scripture says, ‘Streams of living water will flow from deep within the person who believes in me.’” 39 Jesus said this about the Spirit, whom his believers would receive.”  John 7:37-39a 

Water as symbol of God's Spirit.

By this, what Jesus told, this "inspirational water" has The Source in Jesus (and God). Well, it would be normal, and not mental issue, if somebody  come with claim how he/she is "inspired". :)) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
27 minutes ago, Witness said:

Isn’t it based on a principle that is part of the foundation of the organization?  1914? 

Not sure what you mean by principle. If it's not 1914 it could be1934, or even some other completely different date. Either way, calling whichever date as being part of the foundation of the organization is not important to me.

34 minutes ago, Witness said:

Every teaching on generation revolves around this date, and if anyone verbally rejects this date, they can be disfellowshipped.  

I am not interested in verbally rejecting this date. Who am I to do that? It's either right or wrong, time will tell soon enough and I am not going to lose sleep over it.

38 minutes ago, Witness said:

Can a typical JW distinguish between what is served on “Jehovah’s spiritual table” and what is concocted from the minds of men? 

That I don't know. If someone is like a Beroean, or mindful of the apostle Paul's words regarding this subject, and knows their Bible, then they shouldn't have too much trouble.

43 minutes ago, Witness said:

Yes, anyone has the right to speculate, but does the GB encourage it?  Are you even suppose to “go there” and "speculate" otherwise?

" entice us into discussions of personal speculations or critical conversations"

There is a difference between personal speculations and leaving it there, and forming intense discussions around it as if we want to persuade others to see it our way. Unless it is something extremely important and true, which speculations are not, then who are we to push our personal ideas? As for the GB speculating, well they are in a role where they have assumed the provision of spiritual food. At the same time we are aware they can make mistakes. I shall leave it at that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, Anna said:

Not if you take what they say as speculation on their part. Which is what I think it is. Anyone has the right to speculate. I have no qualms telling Br.Splane that I think his chart is based on speculation. And I'm sure he'd reply that that's my opinion. In which case he is right too. No harm done, we both have our opinion. It's not as if "the Generation" is a fundamental teaching required for salvation is it?

@Anna Sorry but i think you are being naive on this point or deliberately not wanting to see the truth of it. 

I have to agree with @Witness (above post) on this issue, on two points.

1. If it is offered as spiritual food from 'Jehovah's table' then it should be fact not speculation. 

2. If a person makes mention of disagreeing with the GB / Org's 'teachings' they can be disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'...  

A question though. If     "It's not as if "the Generation" is a fundamental teaching required for salvation is it? " 

Then, if they have no 'proof' of their claim, why can't they just say "We don't know" 

Why do the GB / Writing Dept' et al have to pretend that they know more than they actually do know ?

It only shows people that those at the top are 'running ahead' and not waiting on Jehovah / Jesus Christ for true guidance. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

they have no 'proof' of their claim, why can't they just say "We don't know" 

The fact is- you have no proof they are wrong. 

It is 105 years since the  kingdom government under Jesus started to rule. It is not many years, if one considers overlapping generations.

They do not fall into the trap of giving dates......... but I can lay my head on a block that this generation may stretch up to 120 years.  There is a precedent in the bible..... think about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
  • Members

    • Pudgy

      Pudgy 2,381

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Mic Drop

      Mic Drop 95

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • JW Insider

      JW Insider 9,696

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • SuzA

      SuzA 25

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      158.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,670
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Apolos2000
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.