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JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"

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9 minutes ago, John H Slaughter said:

That’s understandable. That’s what I’m saying, you’re not alone with your belief. JWinsider (JW) believes it, Srecko (exJW) believes it, and Witness (exJW).

 

You are among the same type of friends that have the same belief not in accordance with scripture. You’re doing fine. There is no need to be angry here.

 

1 Corinthians 12:12-27 New International Version (NIV)

 

Unity and Diversity in the Body

 

12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

 

Hence I feel the scriptures were / are written for the Anointed, not for the earthly class. 

I feel that only the Anointed should fully understand scripture as they are 'one' with Christ. 

The rest of us are just the other sheep.  :)  I like the scripture about 'Ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' 

The 'Jew' being the Anointed class, the ones clinging being the earthly class. 

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49 minutes ago, John H Slaughter said:

You are among the same type of friends that have the same belief not in accordance with scripture. You’re doing fine. There is no need to be angry here.

What?  I'm sorry YOU are wrong.  There was a time when the organization clearly taught that the Body of Christ is comprised of the anointed ones.  It can still be found on their web page.  

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200021176

I might be wrong, but it could be that Allen is back.  

 

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38 minutes ago, John H Slaughter said:

Then you are among friends. Witness which I suspect is you,

 

49 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You can change the spots on a leopard, but you can't change its breath.

You are so right. 

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Witness which I suspect is you, :) 

Is this rubbish really going to start again. I was following this blog / forum long before I chose to join it, and one reason I didn't join earlier was reading all the horrid stupidity of people saying, x was y, and you must be he, and telling one person that they had three different user names just to give themselves up votes etc etc, 

It is obviously people that are losing a debate / discussion, or people who feel hurt by someone's comments. BUT it does no good to the blog as a whole. Just wastes everyone's time. 

 

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9 hours ago, Witness said:

There was a time whe

Living in the past again?  Now some of them also believed in the Trinity before becoming JWs. Why not go that far back?  

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9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Living in the past again?  Now some of them also believed in the Trinity before becoming JWs. Why not go that far back?  

Let me help you out with that link I had provided from your organization's website.  

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200021878#h=1:0

"Also called 144,000; Anointed; Body of Christ; Bride of Christ; Chosen Ones; Elect; Holy Nation; Israel of God; Kingdom Class; Little Flock; New Creation; New Nation; Royal House; Royal Priesthood; Sanctuary Class; Sons of Levi; Spirit Begotten; Spiritual Israel; Spiritual Sons)"

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On 11/17/2019 at 2:14 AM, Arauna said:

Living in the past again?  Now some of them also believed in the Trinity before becoming JWs. Why not go that far back?  

Actually, @4Jah2me and @Witness are right in this case.

*** w09 10/15 p. 5 par. 10 “Be Aglow With the Spirit” ***
. . . the “other sheep” are not part of the composite body of Christ . . . .

And @Witness is right that this is a difference between the Watchtower teaching and the "theology" that Allen Smith has claimed to believe. And if Allen Smith thought this was right you can best believe that it will also be defended to the nth degree by: @Bogdan11 @John H Slaughter @Alithís Gnosis @DespicableME, @alvi languore insanabili @Grey Reformer @Tom Henry etc., etc., etc.

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On 11/15/2019 at 11:54 PM, JW Insider said:

I like it that @TrueTomHarley is standing in for me, but he is probably also concerned that, on my own, I'll end up throwing the GB under the bus. :)

I check their bodies for tread marks daily. Sometimes I have to rub out a few.

On 11/15/2019 at 11:54 PM, JW Insider said:

Personally, I think it's a good thing that more and more JWs are prepared for just this type of barrage. 

I do, too. Few of them are, however. They are not encouraged to be. They are encouraged to align themselves with, “If you know what is true, there is no reason to examine what is falsehood.” There is a serious downside to this counsel, however.

One thing that I greatly admire about the GB is that they go where they are convinced the Bible tells them to go, and they don’t care if there is a downside or not. I do not believe they lay this “follow truth, and ignore falsehood” policy only upon us. I think that they follow it themselves, and look at controversy no more than is absolutely necessary, in accord with Jesus’ “No man at the plow who keeps looking at the things behind is well suited for the kingdom of God,” as modified by Russell into: “If you stop to kick every dog that barks at you, you’ll never get very far.”

They don’t look in the rear view mirror too much. They are thus the exact opposite of crusaders against them, in fact, pundits and policy makers in general, who ONLY look in the rear view mirror, skewering the doers as they do nothing themselves, “holding people accountable,” making them “take responsibility,” but offering nothing positive beyond a new law or two, which the scoundrels immediately find ways to sidestep.

On 11/15/2019 at 11:54 PM, JW Insider said:

But the Internet easily allows anyone to become capable of bringing these exact same challenges to us. So they are not specifically "apostate" challenges.

Yes. I made this point to a couple of elders who were trying to dissuade me from “engaging with apostates.” I am not engaging them, I replied, at least not for their own sakes. It is almost always a lost cause engaging them for their own sakes, I have found (somewhat to my dismay). Yet, “apostates” have succeeded in catching the ear of major media. The latter run prominent—even front page—articles against Witnesses, which we may not read, but everyone else does. In pushing back at these articles, you necessarily cross paths with these “apostates,” and in doing so, some perceptions will change. You get a better feel for them. They still remain the enemy, but you get to appreciate how some became so. You have to know where the enemy is coming from. It is the first rule of any military strategy. It is the first rule of any legal strategy, as well. Could it be that when Witness attorneys represent them in court, they have not acquainted themselves with “apostate” reasoning? They are extremely poor attorneys if that is the case. 

The two brothers had not read the barrage of articles, or even one of them, probably, and were inclined to think that what was out there was inconsequential, the product of scurrilous rag sheets. How about the New York Times and the Washington Post? I said. I don’t think that I would be able to desist kicking back at this point. I know how to answer this stuff, or at least I think I know. Moreover, I see that such attacks are almost never answered—certainly not effectively, and usually, not at all. 

I have taken on the role of “apologist” for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and have been put down before on that account. But I respond with “apologist” being derived from “apologia,” which means “speaking in defense.” Those who dismiss Christian apologists, therefore, are simply bullies who think that they should not have a defense.

As an apologist, I do not tell the GB what they are doing wrong. Nor do I know. There are many things that I don’t like, but that does not mean that remedying them to suit myself would improve matters. Maybe it would do just the opposite. I reflect that that there IS no other faith that incorporates the dozen-or-so essential Bible truths that JWI has pointed to—much less anyone that obeys the direction to preach them. Maybe true faith can only exist within a hostile world the way that it IS existing. That is why I hesitate to insist, and often even mention, my “solutions.” They might not be solutions at all.

If I counted my online time, then easily I have been special pioneering for years. But I don’t count it because the Witness organization can hardly be said to encourage it. And for the most part, when brothers think that they will witness online, the effect is horrible, imo. Scrupulously avoiding any matters of controversy, jettisoning anyone who brings them up, they say: “Do you wonder what is the truth about hell?” The answer is NO! Religious people do not wonder, and non-religious people do not care. 

I would be happy if there was not so much dissuasion to take on the “villains.” Villains are what make the show interesting—ask any TV or movie producer. I would not like to see a call to arms to battle the villains, for the villains are relentless, their gripes are unending, and many are slimy—the counsel to steer clear is hardly unwise. But I would like to see the yellow light given should anyone choose to kick back at the points these guys make.

The “even the tiniest bit of poison that we would never want to drink” is not really consistent with the fact that vaccines (and homeopathy, in a different way) operate on this very principle: expose one to just a little bit of the sickness so that when it is encountered later in the wild, immunity will have developed. Instead, we have the ridiculous situation of youngsters falling for the oldest foible of human nature—doing something because they have been advised not to. Sooner or later, they chance upon some “apostate” literature or other material. When they do, and out of curiosity give it a scan, they are floored—not because it is so overwhelmingly persuasive, but because they are totally unprepared for it. They may be seriously stumbled, and from there the situation worsens. The adults who should be able to help them cannot—because they have no idea what is there themselves. All they can say is, “Don’t read that stuff!” Trust me, opponents are very good at exploiting those words. “See?” they say. “They want to make sure your blinders remain firmly in place.”

That’s why my hero in this regard is @Anna. Long ago, she declared that she would keep abreast of “apostate” thinking so that she would be able to help her teenaged son should he ever come across and be stumbled at their attacks. It only sweetens the story that (last I heard) the kid (he can’t be a kid anymore) is happily pioneering and wondering why his mom is hanging out with all those crazies on the internet.

Nor would I say, from this distance, that opposing the villains has harmed her spiritually. It certainly has not done that with me. Quite the opposite. Villains offer a contrast to what is not villainous, and many things are more clearly appreciated for their contrast. “Drink this gloop,” the doctor says. “Never mind if it tastes like you-know-what. It will produce the contrast we need so that we can more readily appraise your health.”

Case in point coming up, after I dodge my wife. She wants me to do some maintenance around the house. What is wrong with that woman? Can’t she see I am busy correcting someone who is wrong on the internet?

 

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54 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

As an apologist, I do not tell the GB what they are doing wrong. Nor do I know. There are many things that I don’t like, but that does not mean that remedying them to suit myself would improve matters. Maybe it would do just the opposite. I reflect that that there IS no other faith that incorporates the dozen-or-so essential Bible truths that JWI has pointed to—much less anyone that obeys the direction to preach them. Maybe true faith can only exist within a hostile world the way that it IS existing. That is why I hesitate to insist, and often even mention, my “solutions.” They might not be solutions at all.

54 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Case in point coming up, after I dodge my wife. She wants me to do some maintenance around the house. What is wrong with that woman? Can’t she see I am busy correcting someone who is wrong on the internet?

 

🙂  How can I not love you, even though you continue to drink (maybe reluctantly at times) the GB's koolaid?  Acts 20:29,30; James 1:21

 

 

 

 

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    • ... and even more interesting is the Society will hold to the 607 date in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary. THAT's what makes it interesting !! The rough equivalent of saying the Japanese Empire bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1950, or Obama saying "If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan."
    • From what I have seen in movies, many black people are smarter than many white people. Back when I was about ten or eleven years old, they used to have a TV show on at Saturday midnight, called "Shock Theatre". They used to show "Frankenstein", "Bride of Frankenstein" the "Werewolf", "The Mummy", and lots of haunted house movies, and stories of Edgar Allen Poe..  I noticed that groups of white people for some reason would go to a haunted house for some reason, and it would be some seriously creepy castle surrounded by thick fog, with wolves howling in the background, with cobwebs, bats, and in the entrance foyer would be a column of ice cold air. and the furniture would skittish across the room, and fall over all by itself, and a moaning voice from somewhere around the ceiling would say " GEEEEEEET OUTTTTTTTT !. Then, blood would start pouring down the large circular staircase, and some stupid white guy would say "Hey!, lookit the blood coming down the stairs .... let's go upstairs and INVESTIGATE!!" ...turns out , this was a very bad idea for everybody involved. Meanwhile, a black person would have been three miles away, running as fast as he can!  
    • Do not put words in my mouth. You know ...... societies changes all the time and their values also. Soo wrong attitudes should be corrected so people can use their lives to worship God.  A person who is preaching and living a clean life will not try to shy away from dedicating himself to God. 
    • Probably the most superficial posting here on this forum because there is no concept of historical context.   Always placing old articles and using modern laws and attitudes to  defame Jws In South Africa the JW brothers had to constantly ask permission from the government for assemblies to allow different colours of people to mingle...... and this was in the 70s and 80s....  When a white person wanted to preach in a black suburb  he would face personal danger and visa versa -  when a black person wanted to preach in a white area he would be thrown out and the npolice called.  It was society attitudes (and in case of SA - enforced by laws) which dictated what values one could hold.   I grew up in the 50s in Africa.  From young  age I saw black women with breasts uncovered in the streets.... I saw a murder of a black man killing another before I was ten.   I knew about Muti- murders (witch-doctor medicine from body parts)  and I thought it was depraved...even as a child.  .  How depraved must voodoo, witch doctors etc not bave seemed to those people living  in 1902 when colonists went to Africa.  British soldiers who underestimated the black "  impi" were slaughtered in war.  Read up about it on Google -  isandlwana.  The movie "zulu"  was the stand of a small group of engineers against a portion of this army. In 1902 JWs definitely held the wrong view of Canaans/Ham's offspring but this was corrected afterwards.  Today,  JWs in the entire world are one United nation while many other religions remain separate.  I saw many churches in USA 5 years ago where only black people attended, and many where only whites attend.  Most  white churches still believe that these are the offspring of Ham because they have not been taught the truth about the bible.  We have matured and hold Jehovahs views on race. I joined a forum  recently as a JW.  The group wanted my views as a JW.  I was shocked to learn how racially divided USA is now and how many people hate whites just for their skin color and perceived past inustices.  Black Israelites took over the conversation and i wish to add - this is a growing trend in USA. USA has a lot of problems to deal with because they have not corrected the historical problems.  JWs have corrected historical errors. If you want to know more about the superstitions in Africa- even amongst the educated..... I can inform you.  Latin America also have many superstitions which Catholicism has not removed.   These practices are not tolerated by JWs when members revert back to old spiritistic practices.   These JWs are corrected and unrepentent ones removed.  There was  a special booklet,  against all forms of spiritism, written which I used extensively in Africa...... and it is also used in the Caribean and south America.   The muslims are also very superstitious about the evil eye etc.  This is realities....in the world .... not fallacies.  JWs now preach to anyone who has an ear to listen in over 1000 printed languages.  The bible is not bias but in 1902 ..... the JWs were..........which proves this point: if one allows jehovah to correct you and you follow the bible's guidance - you will get it right in the end .......and after all.... it is not the beginning that counts but the end of the race.
    • The greatest gift Versions: #1#2#3#4 I'd like to offer you a gift Something sweet Something rare Not an ordinary gift Not one of those that you lost Or never opened Or that you have left in the train Or never accepted But one of those that you open and cry That you are happy about and you don't pretend to be On this day of mid-September I will dedicate to you My greatest gift   I'll like to give your smile away to the moon So that whoever looks at it at night, can think of you So it would remember to you that my love is important And that it doesn't matter what people say Because you have protected me with your jealousy And even though very tired you smile never disapperead I have to go but in my heart I know Your presence is always an arrival And never a departure My greatest gift My greatest gift   I would like you to offer me a gift An untold dream Give it to me right now One of those that I don't know how to open In front of other people Because my greatest gift It's only ours forever.   I'll like to give your smile away to the moon So whoever looks at it at night, can think of you So it would remember to you that my love is important And that it doesn't matter what people say Because you have protected me with your jealousy And even though very tired you smile never disapperead I have to go but in my heart I know Your presence is always an arrival And never...   And if the end had to come now Let it be in a ravine Not in order to hate me But only because I want to fly And if this agony denies everything to you If it denies to you the life itself, breathe mine And I was being very careful not to fall in love before I met you And I was confusing my life with the others' I don't want to harm myself anymore now Love, love   I'll like to give your smile away to the moon So whoever looks at it at night, can think of you So it would remember to you that my love is important And that it doesn't matter what people say And then Given love, taken love, never rendered love A love as great as the time that never surrendered A love that speaks to me with your eyes I have in front of me You are, you are. you are My greatest gift https://lyricstranslate.com
    • If Jack was not in such an all-fired hurry to prove racial prejudice, he would note that the above comment does exactly the opposite and is remarkable for its time (1952). The “worldly wise and powerful and noble” may look down on them (anyone care to argue that they didn’t at that time?) but God certainly does not, nor his organized servants. Blacks are paid the highest compliment for displaying godly traits that can be paid—of being “meek and teachable and form them comes a high percentage of theocratic increase.” Even NOW overt racism is perceived by many blacks. It was 50 times worse a century ago. So, yes, the idea of not waving before a red flag before a racist world is not such a horrible idea. Given prejudice back then, the WT probably saved a lot of black lives by doing as they did. Jack is just doing his usual Jack—trying to stir up hate when no basis for it exists.
    • Oh God, How I Love You In the sky, the clouds that are going towards the sea, pass by. They seem like white handkerchiefs that salute our love.   Oh God..., how I love you! It is not possible, to have in my arms so much happiness. To kiss your lips that smell of wind. We two, in love like nobody in the world...   Oh God.., how I love you! It makes me cry. In all my life I have never felt a love so dear, a love so true. Who can stop the river that runs towards the sea, the swallows in the sky that are going towards the sun, who can change the love, my love for you?   Oh God..., how I love you!   A love so dear, a love so true. Who can stop the river that runs towards the sea, the swallows in the sky that are going towards the sun, who can change the love, my love for you?   Oh God..., how I love you! Oh God..., how I love you! https://lyricstranslate.com
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