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JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"

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Quote  " They don’t look in the rear view mirror too much. "   Yes the two reasons the GB don't look in the  rear view mirror too much are these. 1. They are frightened to see how much damage they have done to people. 2. Their guilt would overpower them and their conscience would make them step  down. 

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On 11/16/2019 at 2:02 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Many who accept a JW 'bible study' are not so highly educated and will be prepared to accept JW

Maybe in USA this is true.  Many of my JW  friends in Sweden are well educated  and here in Rep Georgia most have higher education. 

I found educated people in Sweden very silly. Why?  They are totally secular and for 3 decades have learnt only about Darwinism in school and higher education. They are not interested in the bible at all and state they do not believe in a creator.  When one discusses evolution with them one discovers they have just accepted evolution without thinking it through......It is a myth that highly educated people think logically or only go where the evidence lies. Dogma or brainwashing  at universities deprive students of critical thinking skills.

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Maybe in USA this is true.  Many of my JW  friends in Sweden are well educated  and here in Rep Georgia most have higher education. 

I found educated people in Sweden very silly. Why?  They are totally secular and for 3 decades have learnt only about Darwinism in school and higher education. They are not interested in the bible at all and state they do not believe in a creator.  When one discusses evolution with them one discovers they have just accepted evolution without thinking it through......It is a myth that highly educated people think logically or only go where the evidence lies. Dogma or brainwashing  at universities deprive students of critical thinking skills.

So much of what you say can be used against the JW Org. 

Some people accept what JW 's say in a so called Bible Study. I know for fact that here in the UK during a study JW's  say things like 'If you don't understand that we will come back to it later, but just accept it for now'.  (Yes I've sat in on bible studies). 

Brainwashing in JW Org "deprive students of critical thinking skills". :) 

Hence when some JW's do start to think, and start to study God's word personally,  they tend to leave the Org. 

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1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

I know for fact that here in the UK during a study JW's  say things like 'If you don't understand that we will come back to it later, but just accept it for now'

What they probably say is, “put it on the shelf for now,” Of course! Intelligent people do that all the time. 

I had 4 years of high school and three years of college under my belt when I came across JWs in the course of a summer job. My religious life was now and then attending the Presbyterian Church that my Mom belonged to, and in time, being confirmed there myself. Presbyterianism comes in several varieties—this one was in the liberal tradition and my mom would best be described as attending for the social benefits. (My dad would read the huge Sunday paper, looking forward to some solitary time as Mom herded us off. “Religion is good for kids,” he would say as we cleared out. He never set foot there himself.)

I was indoctrinated in evolution, both from schooling and from church. Do you really think someone in that position is going to quickly accept Adam and Eve? It’s like accepting Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. However, everything else I was learning made so much sense—I loved the way the pieces fit together. It had never occurred to me that they could. Adam and Eve was the lynchpin for much of it, though. 

It provoked, to coin a term that I would not hear until 50 years later, “cognitive dissonance.” However, cognitive dissonance is easily remedied by telling oneself that you don’t need to know everything this instant. You can always “come back to it later.” “Put it on the shelf” if something does not make sense in an otherwise compelling picture—maybe it will later. This proved to be the case with me.

I had fifteen years of evolutionary schooling, with nothing to counter it. I believed in evolution absolutely. I had to “put it on the shelf” while I examined some extraordinarily attractive and convincing ideas and later come back to it.

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Apostasy is as it is as it always is to be. The term that JWs use has no problem in this sense because the God defiling and hating ill are as they are - mentally depraved. Alienate from the good news gospel, is in the realm of Apostasy when you move said person away from what the Bible says, be it by means of his or her own interpretation of the Bible vs. the charismatic folk.

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6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Some people accept what JW 's say in a so called Bible Study.

If people do not understand what they learn they will later drop out.   But I was speaking about so-called "educated" people. It is a myth that the educated expect solid evidence and make decisions on solid evidence - even evolution at higher education level is indoctrination and not based on facts.

It is not a myth though that the teachings of trinity,  immorality of the soul and hellfire originated in pagan religion and are not biblical teachings.  These false teachings obscure the true value of the randsom sacrifice - the most important teaching in the bible. So if a person understands that Jesus put his soul in death and has faith in it, he is much better off than remaining in church teachings.  His bible study has given him a chance to everlasting life. 

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@Arauna Not all educated people know their Bible. Sadly, you have some Christians and preachers proclaiming positive by means of showing that the Bible supports Homosexuality and exploiting the love and forgiveness that is God and through his Christ.

But yes, the majority of the world is intertwined with the false teachings of mainstream Christendom, this includes what you've mentioned

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is not a myth though that the teachings of trinity,  immorality of the soul and hellfire originated in pagan religion and are not biblical teachings.  These false teachings obscure the true value of the randsom sacrifice - the most important teaching in the bible. So if a person understands that Jesus put his soul in death and has faith in it, he is much better off than remaining in church teachings.  His bible study has given him a chance to everlasting life. 

False teachings, practices, etc of which this world's Christianity's embraces needs to be refuted. Another thing is, false teachings such as these are the very ones that is actually declining Christendom and putting Islam and Spirituality on the raise, so in this sense, Trinitarians are indirectly harming themselves, but makes the job harder for legitimate preachers of the truth to teach the truth of the Bible.

The truth of the Scriptures are interpreted differently by some, but the core conclusion is what is needed to be proclaimed in regards to the Bible in order to push out a professed truth - in short, someone may speak of what happened at Mount Gerizim differently and or what is in Revelations differently, but the core conclusion to said teaching is what remains the same, and said teaching must be taught to the people and or the person in the Bible study itself - helping said reader to not just read, but also to apply, and even meditate on what is learnt. Then you have Apostates who teach and twist and even throw in a bit of hate, I had my far share of such ones who claim to be Christian and defend false teachings and preach that Jesus loves everyone and that homosexuality is okay, or the fact that God has no care for the Earth he has created - they are gravely wrong.

That being said, falsehood is everywhere, but there is and always will be a small handful of people who will minister and teach the truth, often times such ones are the very ones who are targets.

 

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He probably has formed his views of them through the contributions of their “apostate” contingent, and those views could hardly be blacker. I looked down among his comments to see whether any of those nasties had reared their heads. Perhaps here was an example: “Not entirely true. Extremists usually have their own misinterpretation of scriptures.” I responded to this one: “If “misinterpretation” results in a religion of peace, perhaps it is not a misinterpretation after all. Perhaps the mainline view is a misinterpretation.” Is that not a no-brainer?  Another one, disagreeing with the above tweet: “Actually no. Most extremists do exactly what is written in their book. ‘Misinterpretation’ is used as an argument by believers that cherry pick morals that fit our secular ethics today.” I know this type, too. This is the type that finds slavery in the Bible or war in the Old Testament and rails at the “hypocrisy.” I responded to this fellow as well: “Everything has a historical context and to deliberately ignore such context is to be intellectually dishonest. If our side does it to theirs, we never hear the end of it.” He blew up at this reference to context. Evil is evil, he carried on, across all places and time-frames. These characters are very predictable—you could even write their lines for them and not be too far off. Has “critical thinking” made us all nincompoops? It was once thought the most intelligent thing in the world to consider historical backdrop; one was irresponsible, even deceitful, not to do it. Very well. If he is going to trash, with blinders affixed, the source that I hold dear, I will do the same with his source: “You should turn your critical thinking skills upon Ancient Greece, the definer of it. When time travel is invented, history revisionists will give a friendly wave to American slaveholding forefathers as they race back in time to fetch wicked Greek pedophiles—it was an enshrined value of that world—back in irons.” He was not chastened by this. Hijacking Twitter as his personal courtroom, he cross-examined: “Is the holding and beating of slaves, as described in Exodus, morally acceptable? Yes or no?” I countered: “Is the raping of children as endorsed by Ancient Greek society morally acceptable? Yes or no?” Incredibly, he was not dissuaded. “Last chance!” he shot back. “Is the holding and beating of slaves, as described in Exodus, morally acceptable? Yes or no?” “To the blockheads, I became a blockhead.”—Paul (sort of) —1 Corinthians 9:19-22,” I tweeted back: “Two can play the game of obstinacy. Last chance: Is the rape of children—it was enshrined in Ancient Greek society—morally acceptable? Yes or no?” Then I went away, and when I came back, he had deleted all this tweets so that it was hard for me to reconstruct the thread. However, someone else had pointed out a grave sin I had committed: “Thomas you are guilty of the moral equivalence fallacy.” Am I? I suppose. You can sort of guess by the wording just what that phrase means—I had not heard it before. At least it is in English. I once heard a theologian quip that if there is a Latin phrase and a perfectly clear English phrase that means the same thing, always use the Latin phrase so people will know that you are educated. But my “moral equivalence fallacy” is still is no more than considering historical context, a praiseworthy intellectual technique for all time periods except ours.  Besides, I actually had posted something about slavery long ago. But it is not a topic so simple that it can be hashed out in a few tweets, and so I declined to go there with this fellow, who would debate all the sub-points. If God corrected every human injustice the moment it manifested itself, there would be nothing left. The entire premise of the Bible is that human-rule is unjust in itself and that God allows a period of time for that to be clearly manifested before bringing in his kingdom—the one referred to in the “Lord’s prayer”—to straighten it all out. In the meantime, the very ones who work themselves into a lather at religion “brainwashing” people are livid that God did not brainwash slavery away once humans settled upon it as a fine economic underpinning. If Dawkins’s tweet and my response hangs around long enough before burial in the Twitter feed, I would expect some of our malcontents to observe as they did in Russia, where the only evidence of extremism cited is proclaiming “a religious view of supremacy.” Huge protest will come at how Jehovah’s Witnesses practice shunning and thus “destroy” relationships and even family. But views inevitably translate into consequences and policies. Refusal to “come together” with those who insist on diametrically opposed views is hardly the “extremism” of ISIS—and yet the Russian Supreme Court has declared that it is, with the full backing in principle of those from the ex-JW community—the ones who go crusading, which is perhaps 10%. I’m going to write this up as a post and append it to his thread. Let’s see what happens. Probably nothing, but you never know. Plus, let’s expand on that particular Watchtower some more. The particular article covered was entitled: “Jehovah Values His Humble Servants” (September 2019 issue—study edition) Unlike nearly all religious services, Witness meetings are ones that you can prepare for. You can comment during them. They are studies of the sacred book, not just impromptu rap sessions, acquiescencing to ceremony, or sitting through someone else’s sermon. You can prepare for them, and you are benefited, as in any classroom, when you do. The focus here, as it so often is, is on practical application.  Humility draws persons to us. Haughtiness repels them, and thus makes next to impossible the mantra to “come together.” My own comment, when the time was right, was that haughty people can only accomplish so much—it may be a great deal, for haughty people are often very capable people—but eventually they run up against the fact that nobody else can stand them, and so people are motivated to undercut their ideas, even if they are good ones, out of sheer payback for ugliness. Humble people, on the other hand, may be far less capable individually, but their efforts add up. They know how to cooperate and yield to each other in a way that haughty people do not. Someone else on that Dawkins thread, an amateur wit, played with that them of unlikely extremists: “Jehova's witnesses are peaceful but their extremists are better extremely annoying...” Why fight this? It is a viewpoint. Viewpoints are not wrong, because they are viewpoints—right or wrong doesn’t enter into the equation. Better to roll with it. I was indeed on a roll, and so I tweeted back:  “I will grant that they can be. Still, if you had a choice between a team of JWs approaching your door and a team of ISIS members, you would (hopefully) choose theformer. Those 2 groups, and only those 2 groups are officially declared “extremist” in Russia.” And with that, I included a link to my ebook, “Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia.” I am shameless in that. No matter how many books I sell, it is not enough. I don’t sell them, anyway. The book is free, a labor of love. It is an application of the theme: “If you have something important to say, don’t hide it behind a paywall.” It is the only, to my knowledge, complete history of events leading up to and beyond the 2017 ban of the Witness organization in Russia. As to the latest developments there, another one was herded off to prison, who, making the best of a sour situation, or perhaps genuinely finding value there, said: "I want to thank … prosecution. I don't just thank you, but thank you very much, because thanks to you my faith has become stronger … I see I'm on the right path." Of course. It is unreasonable to oppose so vehemently a people totally honest, hard-working, and given to peace—and yet the Bible says that such will exactly happen. How can it not serve to strengthen faith?
    • According to scientific knowledge, the entire universe is in two states every day: something becomes and something disappears. Life on Earth is in the same status. I am disappointed with suffer of creatures on Earth, too. And can't connect with "my picture" of God as i accepted through JW Bible interpretations and my own interpretations, then and now. What if we made wrong pictures about Creator? .... based on wrong or failed text? 
    • You will find it's not "people" in general who judge too quickly, but it is ex-JWs. People in general do understand the complexities. Even the ARC understands the complexities, and so do prosecuting lawyers. But of course neither are in the business to understand, but to hopefully help remedy the situation and to get justice (well in the case of the lawyers; to get lots of $$$$ too, lets be honest).
    • What amazed me many times is this: Who writes articles, and about whom, and to whom? Here we have one paragraph about GB. Questions arise.  Who makes this observations and conclusions about GB?? Who is authorized to make comments about GB and their works?? Why examination about  GB, had been presented in a way, manner, as it is done by "Third Party"? Is it possible that GB is not able, in power to talk about themselves and gave self evaluation, introspective about own feelings, thoughts and deeds??!!  What a theatrics for public. They are histriones :))  
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