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JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"


Jack Ryan

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Norway is the great catalyst that will force the GB to start thinking about basic human rights, as currently there is a lot of discussion in the Norwegian Government about " ... Why are we giving the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society Norwegian dollars (Kroners) every year from Tax money for their charities ... for EACH and every of the approximately 112,000 JWs in Norway (paraphrased), when they prohibit their members to vote"... which THEY consider to be an inalienable, and non-negotiable human right of all peoples, everywhere.

The WTB&TS is currently being governed by the Lawyers, Accountants, and the Finances department, with the GB not admitting being personally responsible for ANYTHING.

What we consider "reasonable", they consider EXTREMIST, and many European nations give tax money to ALL legitimate churches, without restriction on how they spend it.

By violating what these governments' and peoples' basic understanding on what constitutes extremism, soon, if not already, it is going to affect the flow of cash into the Society's Treasury.

47 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

In a practical way, some of the practice hasn't caught up with the "human rights" rhetoric yet.

One of several major concerns of the Governing Body is to not hemorrhage money, as it has been doing for years in the constant Child Sexual Abuse court cases.

THIS is what will drive any change .... not love ... not justice ...not fairness .... MONEY!

By the way .... has the Society recently decided that voting is a matter of personal conscience?

What I have read is so "weasel worded", I cannot tell.

 

 

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First of all, before I begin answering, I wanted to say that I have long expected that any JWs who go online to defend their views publicly will see more and more of what is beginning to happen here.

The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view. Apart from what has already been quoted

Yes. I wrote up a post on this at the time and included how other translations handled the verse. An excerpt:   (from https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/who-is-mentally-diseased.html ) “Mor

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Wow, Having missed only two hours on here, I am now 3 pages behind. Makes it rather difficult to keep up and even more so when the subject changes so much on each topic. 

I do think there is a vast difference in what the 'early Christians' said and did as opposed to what the J W Org / GB say and do now.  Someone mentioned about  'those not with us now that were formerly with us', as part of a scripture (you see i do find it difficult to relate to it all ) . But the scripture was concerning those 'early Christians' which were inspired of God and of the Anointed. They would have known 'pure' truth from the Hebrew scriptures, and also have been guided directly by God through Christ and through Holy Spirit. 

How can anyone relate that to a Governing Body that admit that they are not inspired of God ? How can you relate that to an Organisation that is so big, that the Governing Body is totally out of touch with it ?  A Governing Body that admit that they do wrong (err), as well as make mistakes.  

Having followed this 'blog' for a long time, I've seen / read, many here that have given proof of 'mistakes' / wrong doing by the Governing Body, the Writing Department, Elders et al.  So how can a person compare a scripture which relates to the pure worship of God through Christ, of those first century Christians. It makes no sense. In the time of the disciples/ apostles, true worship was direct, because the 'group of people' involved was small. The Greek scriptures were written directly by those actually hands on, doing daily work, and having direct guidance. What can we say now ? No one is inspired by God. No one is pure. The Governing Body give themselves the tittle of F & D S, but it proves nothing, because they get so much wrong.  We've also seen by written examples here on this blog , that the elders do not show the love and care for the 'flock'. 

I do however like the idea of the 'Apostasy spectrum' because the word apostate is banded about by those in the J W org just as an excuse not to talk to or mix with someone, even if said J W knows nothing about the reason someone is no longer attending meetings or has left the Org. 

I would talk personally with Arauna when she says, a person can only be an apostate to the truth. My answer is, But truth changes week by week in J W Org. 

Mr Rook, I thought the Charity Commission here in the UK were thinking of stopping the 'allowances' too, but it hasn't happened yet. 

 

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19 hours ago, Arauna said:

So you acknowledge that the majority of Christians take the emblems without knowing

I acknowledge how i don't know what they know and think.

But what i know in general, is that Christendom talking about going to Paradise after death and having wonderful life there, i didn't hear they expected to be Kings and Priests  :)))

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21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But the GB have given a lot of thought to human rights, and have made a lot of progress in many nations of the world to defend right to assembly, right to our own religious practices, right to preach from door to door, right to "demand" blood alternatives, right to be seen as ministers, or as a legal religion.

I would never denigrate human rights. I like those things. Life is easier when they are respected. But I prefer the term Golden Rule. It preserves all that is noble about human rights while discarding all that is pretentious. 

We are too short-sighted to properly use our human rights. Plus, our own bodies do not respect them, so can they really be called “rights?” In his day, Ronald Reagan was arguably the most influential person on earth. Ten years later, in the throes of Alzheimer’s, he didn’t know who he was. In this case, obedience to Christ will one day remedy this assault on our human right to unlimited life, limb, and health. Clearly this is the human right to focus upon, as we practice the golden rule.

Still, “human rights” is the buzzword today, not “golden rule,” so that is the game that must be played. It doesn’t always translate into a plus.

I wrote up an example some time ago. Mormons had succeeded in a California ban on gay marriage. In 2010, the ban was overturned and the judge sited a famous JW case:

The reference by Judge Walker to West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette will have the Watchtower Society scratching their heads. “How did we help those wicked sons and daughters of Sodom and Gomorrah?” they will be asking themselves.

“To which I replied: “No they will not.”

“Well....... “It was never the intention of the intolerant Witness religion to grant any freedom of expression outside their own narrow view,” he asserts.

“Nor was it their intention to restrict any other group from benefiting from legal precedent they’ve established,” I replied.”

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/09/proposition-8-mormons-jehovahs-witnesses-and-joel.html

Noble though the concept of human rights may be, the Bible doesn’t necessarily embrace them. Does it celebrate the human right of unlimited free speech? Sometimes it celebrates shutting people up:

“It is necessary to shut their mouths, because these very men keep on subverting entire households by teaching things they should not for the sake of dishonest gain.” (Titus 1:11)

21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

To our long-term benefit, GB members have acknowledged human rights more and more in interviews about child abuse, child endangerment, education, corporal punishment (especially seen before judges in custody cases, presentations before the ARC, questions fielded by the "PR"/correspondence departments, etc). 

I have no problem acknowledging “apostates” get some credit for this. I said so with regard to the May 2019 WT that reproach for CSA falls on the abuser, not the one who reports it.

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/02/the-reproach-of-child-sexual-abuse-falls-on-the-abu.html

Everything in life is action/reaction, and the constant efforts of some of them have served to highlight an injustice. Once people leave the Christian organization, it is easy to lose track of them, and these “whistleblowers,” if they want to be called that, did not allow that to happen. In fact, for ones who stayed true in all other areas, they might afterwards resume their place and forever draw satisfaction from what contribution they have made. 

They rarely do, however. One of the most striking things about “apostates” is that they eventually throw EVERYTHING away. The unique combination of positive traits and beliefs that identify Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jehovah’s Witnesses alone—they discard it all.

 

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would never denigrate human rights. I like those things. Life is easier when they are respected. But I prefer the term Golden Rule. It preserves all that is noble about human rights while discarding all that is pretentious. 

We are too short-sighted to properly use our human rights. Plus, our own bodies do not respect them, so can they really be called “rights?” In his day, Ronald Reagan was arguably the most influential person on earth. Ten years later, in the throes of Alzheimer’s, he didn’t know who he was. In this case, obedience to Christ will one day remedy this assault on our human right to unlimited life, limb, and health. Clearly this is the human right to focus upon, as we practice the golden rule.

Still, “human rights” is the buzzword today, not “golden rule,” so that is the game that must be played. It doesn’t always translate into a plus.

I wrote up an example some time ago. Mormons had succeeded in a California ban on gay marriage. In 2010, the ban was overturned and the judge sited a famous JW case:

The reference by Judge Walker to West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette will have the Watchtower Society scratching their heads. “How did we help those wicked sons and daughters of Sodom and Gomorrah?” they will be asking themselves.

“To which I replied: “No they will not.”

“Well....... “It was never the intention of the intolerant Witness religion to grant any freedom of expression outside their own narrow view,” he asserts.

“Nor was it their intention to restrict any other group from benefiting from legal precedent they’ve established,” I replied.”

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/09/proposition-8-mormons-jehovahs-witnesses-and-joel.html

Noble though the concept of human rights may be, the Bible doesn’t necessarily embrace them. Does it celebrate the human right of unlimited free speech? Sometimes it celebrates shutting people up:

“It is necessary to shut their mouths, because these very men keep on subverting entire households by teaching things they should not for the sake of dishonest gain.” (Titus 1:11)

I have no problem acknowledging “apostates” get some credit for this. I said so with regard to the May 2019 WT that reproach for CSA falls on the abuser, not the one who reports it.

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/02/the-reproach-of-child-sexual-abuse-falls-on-the-abu.html

Everything in life is action/reaction, and the constant efforts of some of them have served to highlight an injustice. Once people leave the Christian organization, it is easy to lose track of them, and these “whistleblowers,” if they want to be called that, did not allow that to happen. In fact, for ones who stayed true in all other areas, they might afterwards resume their place and forever draw satisfaction from what contribution they have made. 

They rarely do, however. One of the most striking things about “apostates” is that they eventually throw EVERYTHING away. The unique combination of positive traits and beliefs that identify Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jehovah’s Witnesses alone—they discard it all.

 

@TrueTomHarley  I think it would be very difficult, impossible in fact, to be an honest whistle blower and stay inside JW Org.  If a person wishes to be totally honest in giving warning / making others aware of serious problems in the Org, then they would need to use their real name. Once the elders of his/her congregation became aware of what he/she was doing, then disfellowshippping would closely follow. Once a person becomes disfellowshipped their input is discredited by many. The only way to truly whistle blow about JW Org would be to leave the Org first, giving valid reasons for doing so. 

It is remarkable however that you @TrueTomHarley turn whistle blowers into apostates with just a flick of your fingers on your keyboard. I care not that you've put it in inverted commas, the accusation is still there. 

Who knows, if enough of these whistle blowers got together, they could form another 'religion'. After all didn't Rutherford  & Co come from former religions and then build a new one ? These whistle blowers could simply carry over the good and discard the bad points of JW Org. :)  Come to think of it, Jesus' disciples did much the same. Carry over the good points from the Mosaic Law and discard the bits no longer needed, thereby forming the new way of serving God properly.  And they would have been seen as 'mentally ill' by the Jews. 

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23 hours ago, JW Insider said:

And one of the points is that we have a personal responsibility to watch out for our spirituality, and can't just follow what others tell us to do in every case. Imagine the possibilities if some Witnesses showed a lot more love to persons in the @Witness household, who were not DF'd, and how this might result in a good Witness (no pun intended). Or imagine the possibilities if some Witnesses decided to associate with persons in the @Witness household without any concern to their own spirituality, and became "infected" with thought that resulted in doubt and a lack of faith. The point is that we are sometimes on our own, and must always be careful about anyone and anything that we associate with.

To clarify, each person in our household left the organization for different reasons.  Can a disfellowshipped person influence another to lose their “faith” in the organization?  Yes; however, my spiritual decisions for leaving are not at all the same reasons why the other three left. And, I was not the first to leave.  Each one of us, saw specific flaws in a belief system that caused us to doubt God’s involvement in…hypocrisy, rules applied by men that went against sound reasoning, rules established according to men’s doctrine and not according to scripture. The result is, two in the house have no more belief in God or Christ.  One has retained a belief, but struggles in making it a central part of life. 

The organization’s record of unsound and failed/changed teachings, and failures in shepherding, are generally what bring forth doubt and lack of faith in God and Christ. Each one of these listed, causes spiritual ‘infection’.  To think JWs are immune to this, is fallacy. 

My husband had a CT scan a while back.  This was to be beneficial in finding the reason he was sick, by locating and identifying the disease.  Yet, the requirement of an iodine contrast which is used to enhance the scan’s ability to detect abnormalities, resulted in severe reactions.  The fluid flushed through his veins caused side effects that are still with him two months later. The CT scan had its advantages in targeting the disease, but the harsh reactions he experienced also left its visible mark, since his entire body is covered in large rashes – a form a dermatitis that doctors say needs to be fought with more drugs. We have chosen an alternative route to treat it, using natural remedies.

Who would have thought that something routinely prescribed as providing beneficial results, would also produce such harm?  Because the WT has targeted and explained a handful of false teachings in religions, the majority of JWs adopt the belief that all WT’s teachings must be fully beneficial, aiding one to recover from say, “christendom’s” lies.    Since we know a lie is a lie, and wrong teachings remain wrong teachings, and the organization has had its large share in wrong teachings (lies), a JW’s faith is not immune to experiencing spiritual infection from a bad dose of wrong information (rotten fruit/poisoned waters), accompanying a known truth.  God’s word does not condone building our faith on a little truth and a lot of lies.  (Matt 12:33,34; Luke 6:43-45)  Can you imagine Jesus saying to his apostles, “Oh, go ahead and partake of the leaven of the Pharisees…because they will still produce some truth”? (Matt 16:6,12;7:20; Luke 6:47-49)  For the most part, JWs will not notice how they are spiritually infused with paltry waters/teachings that had no advantage in beneficially aiding the growth of one’s faith; unless one  is putting faith and trust in an organization.  In that case, there is always a promise of good things that men will produce, and which places a bandaid over the 'infection' resulting from bad teachings.  (Jer 6:14; Ezek 13:10)  

Jesus spoke of “living waters” that would be evident in those anointed whom he sends.   No side effects, no ‘infections’, but only teachings that build upon teachings, and all are truth. (Matt 10:40,41; John 15:16)   

 

“On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus was standing in the temple courtyard. He said loudly, “Whoever is thirsty must come to me to drink. 38 As Scripture says, ‘Streams of living water will flow from deep within the person who believes in me.’” 39 Jesus said this about the Spirit, whom his believers would receive.”  John 7:37-39a 

 Many in the organization are becoming alert and keenly aware of painful results from the absolute “bitter” waters they have been ingesting and seek other means to remedy the resulting effects.  In my household there are four examples of how one leaves the WT and pursues relief from spiritual “infection”.  Not all of them are on a right path; but neither are those tolerating contaminated waters in the WT.  (Jer 23:14-22)  If the GB truly adhered themselves to the teachings of Christ, as they say they do, they would undoubtedly, and continually, produce “living waters” -  pure, and trustworthy. (John 4:14; 6:63; 2 Cor 4:7; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:21,22; Rev 22:17) If excuses are made for their falsehoods, then there is total disregard for the promise Jesus gave us, that he would provide reliable Truth in those whom he sends. (Matt 21:33-45)  There would be no need for a persuasive ‘lecture’ about whom we should trust, as Gerrit Losch felt necessary to convey. John 15:5

 “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled”  Heb 12:14-15

“Bitterness” - acridity (especially poison), literally or figuratively:—bitterness.

“Defiled” -   contaminate 

The root of the “trouble” and divisions caused among disgruntled members who leave the WT, falls on the shoulders of the GB, and the elder body that dispenses the GB's “waters”.  (Rom 16:17;Jude 1:17-19; Rev 8:10,11; 13:11,12,16,17; 17:15)  If we continue to apathetically believe we can spiritually thrive on WT’s infected waters, then our spiritual outcome falls on our shoulders.  (Heb 4:12; Rev 18:4-8)

 

 

 Of interest - " Locust - Scorpions " / " Abaddon " / " fallen star " / " Wormwood "

Pearl Doxsey,  4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

 

 

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TTH said, "Finally! Something that I can agree with Witness on—assuming that she does not throw good sense completely to the wind. (as she does in other areas)"

I get the feeling that you found your eureka and stopped reading my comment at that point. A trait of a good doctor is when he knows he’s gone too far pushing his own agenda and realizes the unfavorable result for doing so.  That is the case with my husband’s doctor, who made it clear CT scans will not be used on my husband for whatever reason, in the future.  He has the “good sense” to know when to change course.   This isn’t the case with your GB, is it.  They will pull another wild card from their sleeve – another David Splane with a chart.  Will JWs show good sense and finally realize they have been defrauded of truth…for years?

 

 

 
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