Jump to content

Querotevernoparaiso

Magnífico, no Brasil, Tenha Coragem!

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

Querotevernoparaiso -
Querotevernoparaiso -
1
124

Top Posters


Recommended Posts



  • Forum Statistics

    61,689
    Total Topics
    114,602
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    16,511
    Total Members
    1,592
    Most Online
    Rosjes128
    Newest Member
    Rosjes128
    Joined




  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I'm not going to make a chart, coz I don't know how. I could always draw one by hand I suppose,lol. Thanks! I got the same impression too... I don't think the new generation of Witnesses (my son's age) attach such great importance to it as the older generation did (heck, I'm not even sure they would know how to explain it).  And the older generation is kind of tired now, I think. I agree. I listened again to Br. Splane's talk that you posted a link to and noted that toward the end he said "Our love should be for the truth, and not for a particular doctrine or teaching". And of course that's very true. So how dear do we hold the 1914 doctrine? And since the topic heading is "A difficult doctrine, with an easy explanation" I am posting one of the difficult explanations  from  "Bible questions answered" "What Does Bible Chronology Indicate About the Year 1914?"  (On line HERE) And lets see how easy we can make it, following the "new way" for Bible interpretation regarding types and antitypes as per Br. Splane.  You go first  😎. The Bible’s answer Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. This is shown by a prophecy recorded in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel. Overview of the prophecy. God caused King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.—Daniel 4:1, 10-16. The prophecy’s initial fulfillment. The great tree represented King Nebuchadnezzar himself. (Daniel 4:20-22) He was figuratively ‘chopped down’ when he temporarily lost his sanity and kingship for a period of seven years. (Daniel 4:25) When God restored his sanity, Nebuchadnezzar regained his throne and acknowledged God’s rulership.—Daniel 4:34-36. Evidence that the prophecy has a greater fulfillment. The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” (Daniel 4:17) Was proud Nebuchadnezzar the one to whom God ultimately wanted to give such rulership? No, for God had earlier given him another prophetic dream showing that neither he nor any other political ruler would fill this role. Instead, God would himself “set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.”—Daniel 2:31-44. Previously, God had set up a kingdom to represent his rulership on earth: the ancient nation of Israel. God allowed that kingdom to be made “a ruin” because its rulers had become unfaithful, but he foretold that he would give kingship to “the one who has the legal right.” (Ezekiel 21:25-27) The Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the one legally authorized to receive this everlasting kingdom. (Luke 1:30-33) Unlike Nebuchadnezzar, Jesus is “lowly in heart,” just as it was prophesied.—Matthew 11:29. What does the tree of Daniel chapter 4 represent? In the Bible, trees sometimes represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) In the greater fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, the immense tree symbolizes God’s rulership. What does the tree’s being chopped down mean? Just as the chopping down of the tree represented an interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship, it also represented an interruption in God’s rulership on earth. This happened when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, where the kings of Israel sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself.—1 Chronicles 29:23. What do the “seven times” represent? The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *—2 Kings 25:1, 8-10. How long are the “seven times”? They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth. The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:6, 14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.
    • Unfortunately, Thor would not be able to help him when it comes to the judgement seat of Yahweh, the last time we someone used a false god to go against Yahweh didn't end to well - recall the story of Elijah (1 Kings 18)? Technically a hares not having a chance in a den of foxes. Matthew simply exposed himself for siding with the goddess Ceres, likewise, to him siding with the other false gods, Tammuz and Saturnila, as past discussions show. That being said, mainstream Christians always want to justify Un-Christian practices. The baffling thing is, WHY?
    • Hmmmmm .... and here I thought Ceres was a minor planet in the Asteroid Belt ... who knew I was really celebrating a grain god? I didn't. I think you have BOTH lost your grip on realty .... BIG time.
    • My response was not directed to the Thor comment, it was regarding something else. This just shows your ignorance, and it shows how you, among the mainstream, do who propose yourself as Christian, cater to traditions of men. As far as I know JWs do not consider Yah as a pagan God, however, they consider, like the rest of us, you should be among the fold, that the pagan god in question concerning Thanksgiving us all about. In short, concerning what @4Jah2me, the issue here is not with having dinner, the issue is primarily on observance of paganism. You and 4Jah can fool around, but a serious man of God doesn't mess around or succumb to lukewarmness in situations like this, more so, giving ammunition to people like Jack Ryan to clown Christians. True Christians recognize that we do not need one day or a government issue day to give praise to God, for Christians praise and thank God everyday, however, we should not be like the Romans, to interject paganism into Christianity. Concerning Thanksgiving, it is an annual harvest that stems from a very old tradition known to man. Thanksgiving was celebrated originally in early October as some would say by the Romans and on that holiday, the celebration was solely dedicated to The Goddess of Harvest, Ceres (which I mentioned this to you before, but evidently, you shy away from it), in addition, the holiday itself to it's very roots is called Cerelia (not to be confused with Floralia) - An ancient Roman religion, the Cerealia, was the major festival celebrated for the grain goddess Ceres. It was held for seven days from mid to late April, but the dates of said celebration are uncertain. Eventually, the Christians who took favor it such eventually took over the Roman holiday and it soon became a well established tradition in England, where some of the Roman customs, as well as Roman rituals for this day were observed. Also as a side note, the King of England proclaimed days of thanksgiving during the American Colonial Period, and in doing so without the influence of either the Pilgrims or Puritans. Now it is not unknown to anyone that JWs as well as the Restorationist community do not celebrate pagan festivities, more so, perhaps use to do so until they discovered it's roots vs. earlier Christians who knew not to mess around with paganism, let alone show some form of observance of such days. As for us, majority of us Unitarians do not partake in such things, and in my case, the culture I grew up in, such observance is discouraged and frowned upon, to please God we do not partake in the sins of what some traditions bring, so to speak, therefore, it is wrongful in the eyes of God, for a Christian, to incorporate anything originally used for pagan worship and practices and combine true religious worship to Yahweh and or related activities concerning Christian practices. Information of the Goddess of the Harvest, or Thanksgiving - Ceres What is, and I quote you You are right, and your own words points the arrows in your direction. You say you are a Christian, numerous times, but now we see a foolish display of hypocrisy on your part (this isn't the first time), and using JWs as a shield will not help you because in this regard, the Bible can be used against you and your spirit can be tested (1 John 4:1). God tells us "clearly" in the following verse Exodus 20:3 - You shall have no other gods before me. So we see here, God is very clear, you have a good reading comprehension, I am sure you can read this clearly. God tells us that we should not have ANY other God besides him, and no, it is not just a single verse, that would be way too easy, this is stated numerous times, countless times in Scripture concerning God Yahweh and false gods, take a read at the good book, knock yourself out - https://www.openbible.info/topics/worship_of_false_gods So my only question to you, if you partake in the festivities of Ceres, no matter how hard you try to Christianize it, how to do think God views what you are doing? Amos 5:21 - I hate, I despise your feasts, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies. Now, The Most High, Yahweh, clearly do not show approval for festivities that has roots connected in the soil of false religious practices that condone conduct, i.e. paganism... As Christians, we should be against such things, upright even, and profess the truth of the gospel to those that either do not know any better and or lost in the seas conjured up by the Great Harlot Babylon. For if people like Apostle Paul and countless others can stand up to what is wrong, what is preventing you from doing the same? That being said, you can clown people with your idiocy, but you cannot clown God for showing who you are, and a 3rd time, I was right to include you among mainstream Christianity due to the fact you think such a practice is OK... Reasons why True Christianity will ALWAYS be above mainstream Christianity, for we not only know the teachings and the Scripture and what Jesus had taught about the gospel and God, but we do so much in our power to put the application, hence, that is what makes US Christians. I leave you with this - Who are you for: Yahweh or Ceres? There's no middle ground, which you should know - It's mentioned in the Bible itself. I know where I stand, but you, you do not have any type of holy ground to stand on. If anyone is committing blasphemy - it is you, in this regard.
    • For 2010 to 2019, it was 213 times for those years. But this includes the superspike for the 100 year anniversary when both 2013 and 2014 included 121 between them, representing more than half of the decade in just those two years. If those two years had been normal years, the total would have been just 213-121+9+9=110. 2013 and 2014 included the preparation and finale of a big push for a 1914 centennial. And maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling that it fell kind of flat. There was another of these "anniversaries" (70th) that was built up in 1983 and 1984, where that decade's yearly average was doubled in '83 and tripled in '84 -- very similar to what happened in 2013 and 2014 when that average was quadrupled in 2013 and then septupled in 2014. (BTW, if you made a chart that broke this into 5 year intervals, a trend would seem much more obvious.) Still, I don't think it's being slowly phased out. I think that it gets mentioned less as it seems less important, and less practical to our current issues. It is no longer a field service "draw" based on the generation that would not die out as it would have been in 1983/4 when the generation meant something else. Once something has lost some of its importance, someone will start reconsidering whether it was ever that important at all, and this might encourage a reconsideration of the Gentile Times doctrine into a simpler, more Biblical teaching. (Just my opinion of course.) My sentiments exactly! I noticed. I was speaking about giving evidence. You should have. It would provide even more evidence for what I was saying. You are the only one I know who repeatedly tries to call me an "expert." I have never claimed this about myself. I just happen to have had several assignments that gave me an opportunity to read all of Russell's writings in the Bethel Library between about 1977 and 1982. And I have enjoyed reading further and refreshing my memory on some of this now that almost everything Russell wrote is so easily accessible online, and checkable against my physical library that contains most (but not all) of Russell's writings.
    • You are right. I was equating the importance not so much in the number of times it is mentioned, but that it is mentioned at all! I just tried to create a graph, but alas, since I've never done one either in word or excel, I failed miserably. I got the horizontal axis right, but I just can't find how to create the vertical axis and how to change the data (numbers) for the vertical axis so I completely messed up. In any case, the chart would show that since 1950 Watchtowers, the mention of 1914 has a sharp downward trend. During 1950 to 1959, it was mentioned 891 times, and during 2000-2009 it was mentioned 216 times. I don't have data for the years 2010 to 2019. So comparatively there is a big difference, but it still seems like too many mentions, if we are thinking along the lines of it slowly being phased out. In my opinion anyway....  
  • Popular Now

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.