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Srecko Sostar

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Confusing and controversial ideas and perceptions we can find about God, life and death, feelings, acts/deeds of human and gods.

 

HOW GOD FEELS ABOUT LIFE

3. What did Jehovah do when Cain killed Abel?

3 The Bible teaches us that our life and the lives of other people are precious to Jehovah. For example, when Cain—Adam and Eve’s son—was very angry with his younger brother Abel, Jehovah warned Cain that he needed to control his anger. But Cain didn’t listen, and he became so angry that he “assaulted his brother Abel and killed him.” (Genesis 4:3-8) Jehovah punished Cain for murdering Abel. (Genesis 4:9-11) So anger and hatred are dangerous because they can make us become violent or cruel. A person who is like that cannot have everlasting life. (Read1 John 3:15.) To please Jehovah, we must learn to love all people.—1 John 3:11, 12. - 

    Hello guest!

 

On other side we can find this in Bible, directly as words inspired to be written by Almighty God.  

 

 

  7   Remember, O Jehovah,What the Eʹdom·ites said on the day Jerusalem fell:“Tear it down! Tear it down to its foundations!”

    Hello guest!
 

    Hello guest!
 O daughter of Babylon, who is soon to be devastated,
    Hello guest!
Happy will be the one who rewards you With the treatment you inflicted on us.
    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!
 Happy will be the one who seizes your children And dashes them against the rocks.
    Hello guest!
 -  
    Hello guest!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Confusing and controversial ideas and perceptions we can find about God

Like this?

De.32:22: "For my anger has kindled a firethat will burn to the depths of the Grave, and it will consume the earth and its produce and will set ablaze the foundations of mountains."

Or like this?

Pro.28:5 "Men given to badness cannot understand judgment, but those who are seeking Jehovah can understand everything."

 

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10 hours ago, Josué2 said:

Bonjour la bible doit être lue dans son contexte et il ne faut pas sortir un verset pour essayer de la comprendre.

Which means, when translated, something like: Hello, the Bible should be read in context and one should not try to understand it by taking a verse out of context.

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Et oui car autrement on peut lui faire dire n'importe quoi.

(2 Timothée 3:15-17) [...] . 16 Toute l’Écriture est inspirée de Dieu et utile pour enseigner, pour réprimander, pour redresser les choses, pour former à une conduite juste, 17 pour que l’homme de Dieu soit pleinement qualifié, parfaitement équipé pour toute œuvre bonne.
 

 

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Pour se calmer, il est également très important de ne pas oublier ses relations avec le Créateur. Jéhovah ne regarde pas d’un œil favorable ceux qui se réjouissent du malheur de leurs ennemis, car pareille attitude reflète un esprit vengeur. Or, dans Proverbes 24:17, 18, nous trouvons cet avertissement : “Quand ton ennemi tombe, ne te réjouis pas ; et quand il trébuche, que ton cœur ne soit pas joyeux, pour que Jéhovah ne le voie pas, et que cela ne soit pas mauvais à ses yeux.”
 

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11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How about this context? :))

 

Proverbs 24:17 New International Version (NIV)

 

17 Do not gloat when your enemy falls;
    when they stumble, do not let your heart rejoice,

What about it?

This verse has no violation of Hebrew Strong's at all and it cross-references to Job 31:29, Proverbs 17:5,  and 25:21, 22.

As a Christians, when an enemy falls we are not to rejoice, and when he is caused to stumble, we should not b joyful to heart.

Also it goes hand in hand with a saying we have today "Do not kick a man when hes down".

That being said, this verse is way too obvious in meaning to take it out of context, it pretty much tells you the context itself.

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12 hours ago, Josué2 said:

Pour se calmer, il est également très important de ne pas oublier ses relations avec le Créateur. Jéhovah ne regarde pas d’un œil favorable ceux qui se réjouissent du malheur de leurs ennemis, car pareille attitude reflète un esprit vengeur. Or, dans Proverbes 24:17, 18, nous trouvons cet avertissement : “Quand ton ennemi tombe, ne te réjouis pas ; et quand il trébuche, que ton cœur ne soit pas joyeux, pour que Jéhovah ne le voie pas, et que cela ne soit pas mauvais à ses yeux.”

translate.google.com:

To calm down, it is also very important not to forget your relationship with the Creator. Jehovah does not look favorably upon those who rejoice over the misfortune of their enemies, for such an attitude reflects an avenging spirit. Now, in Proverbs 24:17, 18, we find this warning: "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice; and when it stumbles, let not your heart be joyful, that Jehovah may not see it, and that it shall not be evil in his sight."

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Il y a 12 heures, Space Merchant a dit :

Qu'en est-il?

Ce verset a pas eu violation de l' hébreu Strong du tout et il références croisées à  Job 31:29, Proverbes 17: 5 et 25:21, 22 .

En tant que chrétiens, quand un ennemi tombe, nous ne sommes pas de se réjouir, et quand il est scandalisé, il ne faut pas b joie à cœur.

En outre , il va de pair avec un dicton que nous avons aujourd'hui « Ne pas lancer un homme quand hes vers le bas ».

Cela étant dit, ce verset est trop évidente dans un sens à prendre hors contexte, il vous dit à peu près le contexte lui-même.

qui parle de ce réjouir dans cette citation  ?

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Case 1)

Happy will be the one who rewards you With the treatment you inflicted on us.

Happy will be the one who seizes your children And dashes them against the rocks.

Case 2)

Do not gloat when your enemy falls;
 when they stumble, do not let your heart rejoice,

Case 3)

If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat;
And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
 For so you will heap coals of fire on his head,
And the Lord will reward you.

 

Please, now do make context of this inspired verses. Context doesn't mean only few verses in one and same passage, chapter or same book. But context in/of all 66 books. And even more, not just context of The Book, but context of life, time, space, love, hate ..... Context of purpose and final result.

I am not to try support this or that conclusion, but point to/out, indicate on some problematic that can arise.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Case 1)

Happy will be the one who rewards you With the treatment you inflicted on us.

Happy will be the one who seizes your children And dashes them against the rocks.

Case 2)

Do not gloat when your enemy falls;
 when they stumble, do not let your heart rejoice,

Case 3)

If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat;
And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
 For so you will heap coals of fire on his head,
And the Lord will reward you.

This has been pretty much answered. Also the other verses in question points to Proverbs 25:21-23 and Psalms 137:9.

Now I see that you bring up Psalms 137:9 (which also points to Isaiah 13:1, 16), I have seen this verse brought up countless times by those who want to attack the Bible as well as those who do not understand this verse's context. Now, in context, it is regarding God having used the Cyrus, a Persian ruler, to liberate his people from Babylon, for the people were held in captivity. The final verse was not in regards to Cyrus, but rather, to Babylon the Great, the world power at that time - the old harlot, Babylon, the wild beast and the fact that it foretells the avenging of God's people - who today are identified as True Christians.

Athirst tend to use this verse as a "Gotcha Question", but any man or woman who knows the context can answer this flawlessly. This also goes hand in hand with the prophet and sex slaves questions they tend to bring up, or another regarding Mary's age.

The other verse, Proverbs 25:21-23, speaks for itself and it isn't too far from the original verse you professed.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, now do make context of this inspired verses.

There inspired because they are found in the original manuscript sources.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Context doesn't mean only few verses in one and same passage, chapter or same book. But context in/of all 66 books.

There is context in a verse and or passages, even in parables in all books of the Bible.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And even more, not just context of The Book, but context of life, time, space, love, hate ..... Context of purpose and final result.

Life, time, space, love, hate? You still on the Bible or somewhere else?

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am not to try support this or that conclusion, but point to/out, indicate on some problematic that can arise.

But you are now between a rock and a hard place.

You have the accepting of context of a verse and or passage and the latter, accepting the verse or passage word for word without taking in any sort of understanding.

Also it would also be the best thing to look at all translations for those specific verses you are pointing to.

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Il n'est pas dit de ce réjouir contre un ennemi ou adversaire. au contraire le verset de Paul cité plus haut est des plus explicite.

(Romains 12:18-21) [...] . 19 Mes bien-aimés, ne vous vengez pas vous-mêmes, mais laissez agir la colère de Dieu ; car il est écrit : « “La vengeance est à moi ; c’est moi qui paierai de retour”, dit Jéhovah. » 20 Au contraire, « si ton ennemi a faim, donne-lui à manger ; s’il a soif, donne-lui à boire ; car en faisant cela, tu amasseras des braises sur sa tête ». 21 Ne te laisse pas vaincre par le mal, mais continue à vaincre le mal par le bien.
 

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2 hours ago, Josué2 said:

Il n'est pas dit de ce réjouir contre un ennemi ou adversaire. au contraire le verset de Paul cité plus haut est des plus explicite.

(Romains 12:18-21) [...] . 19 Mes bien-aimés, ne vous vengez pas vous-mêmes, mais laissez agir la colère de Dieu ; car il est écrit : « “La vengeance est à moi ; c’est moi qui paierai de retour”, dit Jéhovah. » 20 Au contraire, « si ton ennemi a faim, donne-lui à manger ; s’il a soif, donne-lui à boire ; car en faisant cela, tu amasseras des braises sur sa tête ». 21 Ne te laisse pas vaincre par le mal, mais continue à vaincre le mal par le bien.
 

Nice! But have in mind that old patriarchs and Israel leaders have (they had) different view sometimes. And seems how JHVH "blessed" (or approved or not have specific view, let them done what they want to do) about many of violent acts in battles against all sort of "enemies" that was not been "loved" by Israel people.

Well, seems how so called Context about love and hate, about commands, about scriptures, about scriptures in time line,  about enemy in this conversation, was/had different, opposite interpretations and attitudes, standpoints, doctrines through time and space.   

Old Israel people had some "Commands" (not as God's commands but as man's (Israel religious or political leaders) commands, that was teaching them differently than The Law or Jesus later.  

 

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19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

and that is good.... or i will be broken or hard place will be destroyed :)))) 

It isn't good because it puts you in a difficult situation. It is like being stressed out, confused and panicky of wanting to go left, or wanting to go right, wanting to eat an apple or an orange, etc. to the point you cannot decide.

In the realm of Scrpture and Hermeneutics, you are between choosing context or not choosing context whereas if context is applied, you better understand the verse, but if no context is applied, you read a verse as is and not realize what the verse is telling you.

For example, we have these 2 verses:

  • John 10:30 - I and the Father are one.
  • John 20:28 - Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

No Context regarding these verses: At just the surface information, someone will be 100% convinced that Jesus is God because of what Thomas had said and what Jesus had said, they also ignore the cross-references and 99% of the chapter itself.

With Context regarding these verses: We know that Thomas didn't see Jesus as God because he was present with Jesus when Martha, the sister of Lazarus and Mary spoke to him. Thomas was also not there when Jesus, who had recently been resurrected, met with the other disciples and was in doubt, only when he finally saw Jesus he believed and Jesus pretty much tells Thomas everything on the final verse that he is God's Son - hence the verse or passage is about seeing and believing, etc. While John 10:30, the disciples are also one as read in John 17:20-26, the people, John 10:16, and a list of other verses regarding people in union with Christ and having God dwell in them as God dwells in the Christ (all this is even more information filled with cross-references).

As you can see context matters when it comes to a verse and or passage.

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Nice! But have in mind that old patriarchs and Israel leaders have (they had) different view sometimes. And seems how JHVH "blessed" (or approved or not have specific view, let them done what they want to do) about many of violent acts in battles against all sort of "enemies" that was not been "loved" by Israel people.

@Josué2 is speaking about having not to rejoice against an enemy. God's people have not changed or had different views, for they followed all the commands of God and did as God had told them to, even in the face of those who are enemies of God. Never have we see in the Bible God's people boasting about killing an enemy and or ravaging the corpses of their enemy, which a thing we can see from those who are enemies of God's people, for example, The Philistines, Goliath, or that of the 2 Midianite kings, Zebah and Zalmunna, such ones taunt not just his people, but God also, they even make a mockery of fallen ones in battle such as Saul and his Son, as you can read in the Bible what happen to their corpses.

Yes it was over the top brutal back in those days, but God's people would never rejoice over a brutal defeat of their enemy, if anything they will sing to God and give praise to God for delivering them out of the hands of their enemies - for there is always a reason, a cause and effect in such things, and we can see that in the Bible.

This also goes hand in hand with the verses that you are focused on, when context is understood, it does not look complex.

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, seems how so called Context about love and hate, about commands, about scriptures, about scriptures in time line,  about enemy in this conversation, was/had different, opposite interpretations and attitudes, standpoints, doctrines through time and space.   

But the context is there, the question is, do you see it? It should also be noted there is always a reason of action in the days of old, just so we are clear.

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Old Israel people had some "Commands" (not as God's commands but as man's (Israel religious or political leaders) commands, that was teaching them differently than The Law or Jesus later.  

How are you so sure when their laws and commandments come directly from the scriptures? The foremost command Jesus spoke of hangs has those laws, in turn, Bible principles, hanging on to them, therefore, such laws are not of man's, but of God's if it persist through Jesus' day to now.

Can you be specific on this "Law of Man" of which you speak of, Srecko? Also it would also help if you can identify one political leader as you claim, we know of religious leaders and judges, but it would be helpful if you point out the specifics in terms of those who has a political stance, as you claim mixed in with law of men.

 

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Il y a 20 heures, Srecko Sostar a dit :

Agréable! Mais avoir à l'esprit que les anciens patriarches et les dirigeants d'Israël ont (ils avaient) point de vue différent parfois. Et semble comment YHWH « béni » (ou approuvé ou pas vue spécifique, laissez-les faire ce qu'ils veulent faire) sur un grand nombre d'actes de violence dans des combats contre toutes sortes de « ennemis » qui n'a pas été été « aimé » par les gens d'Israël.

Eh bien, semble comment ce qu'on appelle contexte de l'amour et la haine, sur les commandes, sur les écritures, sur les écritures en ligne de temps, à propos de l'ennemi dans cette conversation, a / avait différentes interprétations opposées et les attitudes, les points de vue, des doctrines à travers le temps et l'espace.   

Ancien peuple d'Israël avaient des « commandes » (pas les commandements de Dieu, mais comme les commandements de l'homme (Israël chefs religieux ou politiques), qui enseignait différemment que la loi ou Jésus plus tard.  

Les ancien patriarches n'avait pas un esprit haine.Ils me fait prouver le contraire bible à l'appui.

 

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2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Can you be specific on this "Law of Man" of which you speak of, Srecko?

 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ - source; Jesus.

This is words in sermon Jesus gave to Jew people who came to hear. So, it is clear, to me,  that Jew leaders (who ever they have been, religious or administrative (read political, hahaha) or something in a middle of both side, or some political/religious fractions among Jew nation) are those who was said something , about what Jesus has refer and used in his lesson and warning.

For example in Jesus time there are: The Pharisees, The Sadducees,  The Galileans,  The Sanhedrin, The Scribes.

Before, in "golden time" of Kings, there are/was exist opposition also.  Read the Bible for information's.    

 

Sort of resume:

People before and now (past/present) , Jew's or Christian's or JW's or some other's believers in holy Bible can follow "The Word" or "The Law" which source can be from God, from god's, from human. Also, "word" and "law" can be amalgam, mixture of all parties mentioned in sentence before - we have the same "problem" of old new or new old, it depends of who stand before issue (one proverb say, old joke-new fool).  

That is conclusion i can read from Jesus quote in Matthew. “You have heard that it was said,.."

Who have heard? --- believers, followers, people from nations, JW members .....?

and most important, "WHO was said?!" ---- Rabin's, Pope, priests, elders, GB of WTJWorg ......?  

 

At the end of a day no one can be absolutely sure what is, what was The PURE Word or The PURE Law of JHVH and what is/are NOT. :)) 

  

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4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ - source; Jesus.

Before I start, you do realize the passage as a whole... right?

How everything is align goes as followed:

  • The Sermon on the Mount (1)
  • The Beatitudes (2-11)
  • Salt and Light (13-16)
  • Christ Came to Fulfill the Law (16)
  • Anger (21-26)
  • Lust (27-30)
  • Divorce (31-32)
  • Oaths (33-37)
  • Retaliation (38-42)
  • Love your Enemies (43-48)

Your focus is on verse 43, but the passage as a whole says the following:

[43] “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ [44] But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, [45] so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? [47] And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? [48] You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

So note, Jesus said You have heard that it was said, and he states the following, moreover, nothing in the Mosaic Law says anything about hating your enemy, the very reason Jesus made the point clear in the next verse.

How do we know? Very simple, let's go for context.

When it is spoken of, when one must love your neighbor, The Mosaic Law directed the Israelites to love their neighbor, we can see the law being professed in this verse below

  • Leviticus 19:18 - You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord [YHWH].

Neighbor is in regards to one’s fellow man, for some Jews went off the rails on the meaning and focused on solely themselves than others, especially those who kept the specific verbal traditions; all other people were to be considered enemies, which is not the case according to the Law itself - therefore for you to say something is Lawful when it isn't even written by Law or in the Torah makes you incorrect and it shows that you are looking at the verse at face value without context. Now let's move on to hate your enemy. As already stated, the Mosaic Law contained no such command. Some Jewish rabbis believed that the command to love their neighbor implied that they should hate their enemy, but nothing Scriptural in the Hebrew Old Testament makes prove to a specific Law of Man as you make mention of that points to such - therefore,it is unfounded.

Also these other references made help, regarding to continuing to love your enemies, just as Christ Jesus conveys by means of counsel, which is in harmony with the spirit of the Hebrew text and the Law itself (Exodus 23:4, 5, Job 31:29, Proverbs 24:17, 18 and 25:21), furthermore, this also hangs on to the foremost commandments.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This is words in sermon Jesus gave to Jew people who came to hear. So, it is clear, to me,  that Jew leaders (who ever they have been, religious or administrative (read political, hahaha) or something in a middle of both side, or some political/religious fractions among Jew nation) are those who was said something , about what Jesus has refer and used in his lesson and warning.

So far we have not seen any political leaders - as you claim.

We haven't seen any Law of Man that professes to hate your enemy - as you claim, which is countered by the fact that to hating an enemy is nowhere to be found in the Mosaic Law. The only thing that is found is to regarding loving your neighbor, in turn, loving your enemy.

If you truly understand Jesus' counsel, you would have been able to spot the fact of what he said before and after Matthew 5:43. After all, the cross-references even gives you the answer.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

For example in Jesus time there are: The Pharisees, The Sadducees,  The Galileans,  The Sanhedrin, The Scribes.

Religious leaders and rabbis, leader of the Jews. Where are the political leaders you speak of, a specific one, like I asked?

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Before, in "golden time" of Kings, there are/was exist opposition also.  Read the Bible for information's.    

True, but then you have the Mosaic Law, and you were not being specific of a political figure who does something entirely different from what is written.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Sort of resume:

People before and now (past/present) , Jew's or Christian's or JW's or some other's believers in holy Bible can follow "The Word" or "The Law" which source can be from God, from god's, from human. Also, "word" and "law" can be amalgam, mixture of all parties mentioned in sentence before - we have the same "problem" of old new or new old, it depends of who stand before issue (one proverb say, old joke-new fool).  

And yet God's Spoken Word professed the Law and the Law was applied to the people, an example would be in Moses Day and the very fact that Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible and in the Hebrew Text it is called the Torah, otherwise known as Instruction. plethora of laws are found within the first five books, an example would be Shema Yisrael.

So pretty much God's Word and the Law are one in the same, the Laws professed in the New Testament are the same, but are Biblical Principles to which Christians are to apply.

Old Laws still hang on to the foremost commandments - for the Bible says so, therefore the fool will be made knowledgeable because he now sees God's Word is true.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

That is conclusion i can read from Jesus quote in Matthew. “You have heard that it was said,.."

You may want to re-read the passage again if you missed that something was not mentioned in the Mosaic Law, what you professed holds no water if you cannot bring proof to claim.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

and most important, "WHO was said?!" ---- Rabin's, Pope, priests, elders, GB of WTJWorg ......?  

The laws still hang, I am pretty sure Restorationist Christians are aware of that if they themselves cross-references this and refer to it as the Law of Christ.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

At the end of a day no one can be absolutely sure what is, what was The PURE Word or The PURE Law of JHVH and what is/are NOT. :)) 

It isn't unknown to anyone, simply read the Old Testament, for it matches up with what Jesus says in the New Testament and or anyone else?

For example, when Satan tried to tempt Jesus:

  • Matthew 4:10 - Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
  • Luke 4:8 - And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”

And what Law Jesus is referring to exactly? The answer is here by means of cross-references to the Old Testament:

  • Exodus 20:3 - You shall have no other gods before me.
  • Deuteronomy 6:13 - It is the Lord your God you shall fear. Him you shall serve and by his name you shall swear.
  • Deuteronomy 10:20 - You shall fear the Lord your God. You shall serve him and hold fast to him, and by his name you shall swear.

Very simple and at the end of the day, this is known by those who take the time to read, research, apply and study the Scriptures.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The Essenes, The Zealots, The 'Am Ha-aretz, ...

The Samaritans, the Sicarii, The Herodians ...

Your point? Also you are aware that in those days there were people for God and people who were against God, and those who had no idea who the True God is - right? This should be known for we discussed this before.

That being said, you are driving the focus away from the actually verses you based your topic on, so I will quote you as a reminder:

Note: Pretty much your focus has already been answered several times on this same thread.

Quote
On 10/28/2018 at 2:02 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Confusing and controversial ideas and perceptions we can find about God, life and death, feelings, acts/deeds of human and gods.

HOW GOD FEELS ABOUT LIFE

3. What did Jehovah do when Cain killed Abel?

3 The Bible teaches us that our life and the lives of other people are precious to Jehovah. For example, when Cain—Adam and Eve’s son—was very angry with his younger brother Abel, Jehovah warned Cain that he needed to control his anger. But Cain didn’t listen, and he became so angry that he “assaulted his brother Abel and killed him.” (Genesis 4:3-8) Jehovah punished Cain for murdering Abel. (Genesis 4:9-11) So anger and hatred are dangerous because they can make us become violent or cruel. A person who is like that cannot have everlasting life. (Read1 John 3:15.) To please Jehovah, we must learn to love all people.—1 John 3:11, 12. - 

    Hello guest!

 

On other side we can find this in Bible, directly as words inspired to be written by Almighty God.  

 

  7   Remember, O Jehovah,What the Eʹdom·ites said on the day Jerusalem fell:“Tear it down! Tear it down to its foundations!”

    Hello guest!
 

    Hello guest!
 O daughter of Babylon, who is soon to be devastated,
    Hello guest!
Happy will be the one who rewards you With the treatment you inflicted on us.
    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!
 Happy will be the one who seizes your children And dashes them against the rocks.
    Hello guest!
 -  
    Hello guest!

 

 

I suggest you better acquaint yourself with what the Mosaic Law is. If you can somewhat comprehend Galatians 3:28, this, the laws of the Jews, should not be that complex.

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The Mosaic law was only for the Nation of Israel though the principles of that Law are carried through in the Greek Scriptures. 

And one point i noticed from the same scripture you are debating, Matthew 5, in verse 45, Jesus calls them 'sons' not children. 

"so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens," 

Hence i continue to say, these scriptures are written for the Anointed class only.

Why? Because only the Anointed are called 'Sons'. The earthly class are called 'Children' of God.

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wej poH yoDSutmey tuQ Sol ghajbogh neH … loS poH ghaH 'Iv ro' yong wa'DIch.

 

Trois fois armé, c'est celui qui se dispute juste ... et quatre fois

celui qui se fait poing en premier.

 

Three times armed is he who has his quarrel just

... and four times he who gets his fist in first.

 

 

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Il y a 1 heure, JOHN BUTLER a dit :

La loi mosaïque était seulement pour la nation d'Israël bien que les principes de cette loi sont portés par les Écritures grecques. 

Et un point, j'ai remarqué de la même écriture que vous débattons, Matthieu 5, au verset 45, Jésus les appelle « fils » et non les enfants. 

« Afin que vous puissiez vous prouver fils de votre Père qui est dans les cieux » 

Par conséquent, je continue à dire que ces écritures ont été écrites pour la classe Oint seulement.

Pourquoi? Parce que seul l'Oint sont appelés « fils ». La classe terrestre sont appelés « enfants » de Dieu.

L'important c'est d'être connue de Dieu.

(Romains 10:19, 20) [...] » 20 Et Isaïe ose même dire : « J’ai été trouvé par ceux qui ne me cherchaient pas ; je suis devenu connu de ceux qui ne demandaient pas à me parler. [...] 
 

 

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23 minutes ago, Josué2 said:

L'important c'est d'être connue de Dieu.

(Romains 10:19, 20) [...] » 20 Et Isaïe ose même dire : « J’ai été trouvé par ceux qui ne me cherchaient pas ; je suis devenu connu de ceux qui ne demandaient pas à me parler. [...] 

Exactement. 

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What in this words told by Jesus need some extra context with some special interpretation, that is not visible while reader reading it? - “You have heard that it was said, ...."

Those who listened Jesus at moment he gave sermon knew well WHO told them;

1) You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.

2) You shall not commit adultery

3) Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.

4) Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made

5) Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.

6) Love your neighbor  and hate your enemy.

It is noticeable how Jesus have extra appendix on every of this listed, quoted things he made. Did he go beyond already said and written? He gave some  additional explanation? He gave not just an explanation, but even a guide that differs from what they were taught.

All this 6 points you can find in Ten commands and Mosaic Law. But one you would not find - "hate your enemy". But Bible have idea of hating. Not only hating bad things in general or bad deeds made by people. Bible talking about hate that is directed towards other people. 

General idea of "hating" is visible in book Ec. 3:8. ...a time to love and a time to hate

Very specific way of hating is visible in;

Psalm 139:21,22 ....Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Hosea 9:15 Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them 

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters— yes, even his own life— he cannot be My disciple.

In sermon, Jesus talking about NOT HATING enemy but also about HATING family members. 

You can talk about so called CONTEXT how much you wish and want, but what is said - it is said, and how it was said -it was said. WTJWorg in some of Bible verses  found basis for shunning, avoiding and ignoring those who disagree about WT doctrines.      

In one moment Jesus making corrections about Mosaic Law and oral teaching, oral law. In next moment he has told something that WT scholars using for own Oral laws and commands and instructions.

Do you still want continue to insist on so called Context? What Context, when whole  Bible can be used for particular interest of  governing elite. :))) Each group will find its context and claim how that is A Context. :))

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44 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What in this words told by Jesus need some extra context with some special interpretation, that is not visible while reader reading it? - “You have heard that it was said, ...."

Those who listened Jesus at moment he gave sermon knew well WHO told them;

1) You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.

2) You shall not commit adultery

3) Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.

4) Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made

5) Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.

6) Love your neighbor  and hate your enemy.

It is noticeable how Jesus have extra appendix on every of this listed, quoted things he made. Did he go beyond already said and written? He gave some  additional explanation? He gave not just an explanation, but even a guide that differs from what they were taught.

All this 6 points you can find in Ten commands and Mosaic Law. But one you would not find - "hate your enemy". But Bible have idea of hating. Not only hating bad things in general or bad deeds made by people. Bible talking about hate that is directed towards other people. 

General idea of "hating" is visible in book Ec. 3:8. ...a time to love and a time to hate

Very specific way of hating is visible in;

Psalm 139:21,22 ....Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Hosea 9:15 Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them 

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters— yes, even his own life— he cannot be My disciple.

In sermon, Jesus talking about NOT HATING enemy but also about HATING family members. 

You can talk about so called CONTEXT how much you wish and want, but what is said - it is said, and how it was said -it was said. WTJWorg in some of Bible verses  found basis for shunning, avoiding and ignoring those who disagree about WT doctrines.      

In one moment Jesus making corrections about Mosaic Law and oral teaching, oral law. In next moment he has told something that WT scholars using for own Oral laws and commands and instructions.

Do you still want continue to insist on so called Context? What Context, when whole  Bible can be used for particular interest of  governing elite. :))) Each group will find its context and claim how that is A Context. :))

 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14 v 26).

Yes very strong words indeed. But i still think they were addressed only to the Anointed. 

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Il voulait plutôt dire que ses disciples devaient aimer moins les membres de leur famille que Dieu (voir Matthieu 6:24). Dans le même ordre d’idée, la Bible relate que Jacob ‘haïssait’ Léa et aimait sa sœur Rachel, autrement dit qu’il n’aimait pas la première autant que la seconde (Genèse 29:30-32).
 

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9 minutes ago, Josué2 said:


Il voulait plutôt dire que ses disciples devaient aimer moins les membres de leur famille que Dieu (voir Matthieu 6:24). Dans le même ordre d’idée, la Bible relate que Jacob ‘haïssait’ Léa et aimait sa sœur Rachel, autrement dit qu’il n’aimait pas la première autant que la seconde (Genèse 29:30-32).
 

OK, i can "swallow" this interpretation and make careful agree with idea you present, BUT when you say "to love less" what you really mean by that? What is truly, actually everyday way how you and other JW member SHOW this "less love" ??!!  And what when your family member decide not to be JW or stop to be JW?

According to WT, "to love less" means not to pick up cell phone when dfd daughter call her mum. And that is shameful !! Is it that what you mean by "to love less" in religious sort of thinking?

For me, that is out of mind and brutal, that is destruction of humanity, it ruins the natural conscience  and creates an artificial people, insensitive robots. 

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11 hours ago, Josué2 said:

Matthieu 6:24

Matthew 6:24 New International Version (NIV)

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

What is your message?

Is it this?

God=master. Money=master. 

You hate God but love money. Or. You hate money but love God.

You will be devoted to God and despise money. Or. You will be devoted to money and despise God.

 

If one of this is in your life, please give some example how looks your hate and your love, on money and God. :))

 

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11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Genèse 29:30-32

Jacob made love to Rachel also, and his love for Rachel was greater than his love for Leah. And he worked for Laban another seven years.

 When the Lord saw that Leah was not loved, he enabled her to conceive, but Rachel remained childless.  Leah became pregnant and gave birth to a son. She named him Reuben,[a] for she said, “It is because the Lord has seen my misery. Surely my husband will love me now.”

 

Here we have some gradation, degrees, in feelings of love. (Hate can also have gradation)

greater love

grater than

not loved

 

In one moment we have information (inspired information) how Jacob was not just showed  LESS love to Leah, but inspired report said how Lord saw that Leah WAS NOT LOVED. Here we have very different conclusion. Not loved at all. 

Is it possible to say how sometimes when somebody say, I love my dfd family member less, in fact means -- I do not love him/her at all? 

What literal message is here in Genesis? If you have two women in your life and you dare to love one less (or not love at all), than God will punished woman you love more. Or do i missed something and not saw some greater Context? :)) 

In next post/comment i will put another example and ask you to find a context and lesson for 21 century people. 

 

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  1. So David rose and he and his men went and struck
      Hello guest!
     down among the Phi·lisʹtines two[
      Hello guest!
    ]
    hundred men, and David came bringing their foreskins
      Hello guest!
     and giving them in full number to the king, to form a marriage alliance with the king. In turn Saul gave him Miʹchal his daughter as a wife.
      Hello guest!

 

If you like, please skip all that intrigues between Saul and David and fighting for power and prestige.  I am not interested in background about problems that those two individual had among them. It will be very good to see and understand what in this act is precious for Christian today to imitate when they found themselves in premarital period, about money and material issue, new family bonds,  .....

In this and other stuff about David we found description -  And David was continually acting prudently in all his ways, and Jehovah was with him.  

According to this statement it was ok to kill 200 people, even enemies, as price for bride. Bloody money, we would say today. Nice beginning  of family life. Miʹchal, Saul’s daughter must be very proud and happy when heard about trophy David has won, collected.  It seems how such way of living was the best and only possible if you want to survive in such society. We today are too much meek in comparison to manly, macho individuals as David.

Well, we have two messages from Bible:

Be meek like Jesus (read - let people spit on you) 

Be prudent like David (read - don't mess with me).

... now please would someone give context of this two teachings :))

 

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Il y a 10 heures, Srecko Sostar a dit :

Matthew 6:24 New International Version (NIV)

24 « Nul ne peut servir deux maîtres. Soit vous haïra l'un et aimera l'autre, ou vous serez consacré à l'un et méprisera l'autre. Vous ne pouvez servir Dieu et l'argent.

Quel est votre message?

Est-ce cela?

Dieu = maître. L'argent = maître. 

Vous détestez Dieu mais l'amour de l'argent. Ou. Vous détestez l'argent mais l'amour de Dieu.

Vous serez dévoué à Dieu et qui méprisent l'argent. Ou. Vous serez dévoué à l'argent et à mépriser Dieu.

 

Si l' un de ce qui est dans votre vie, s'il vous plaît donner un exemple , comment ressemble votre haine et votre amour, de l'argent et Dieu. :))

 

Désolè je ne vois trop le rapport avec ma citation des paroles de Jésus.

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2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, give some example how looks your hate and your love in everyday life .... :))

For some of us there are emotions / feelings in between Love and Hate. 

We should love our neighbours, but can't say a i do. I tend not to get involved with my neighbours, but i do consider their feelings when i do things outside of the house. So in my opinion showing consideration is a way of showing love, but in an indirect way. 

For some people, those that have had a good upbringing and have been shown love, it is probably easier to show love to others. But when life has kicked you down for more than half a century then showing love becomes more difficult.  God understands all this of course, but never expect people to understand. 

I show 'love' to some people by just completely ignoring them. Well it's better than doing them harm :) .

Hate, I think we all hate something or someone at times. We are all sinners and fall short in many ways. 

But you know the things i hate, no need to repeat them again. 

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10 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

For some of us there are emotions / feelings in between Love and Hate. 

We should love our neighbours, but can't say a i do. I tend not to get involved with my neighbours, but i do consider their feelings when i do things outside of the house. So in my opinion showing consideration is a way of showing love, but in an indirect way. 

For some people, those that have had a good upbringing and have been shown love, it is probably easier to show love to others. But when life has kicked you down for more than half a century then showing love becomes more difficult.  God understands all this of course, but never expect people to understand. 

I show 'love' to some people by just completely ignoring them. Well it's better than doing them harm :) .

Hate, I think we all hate something or someone at times. We are all sinners and fall short in many ways. 

But you know the things i hate, no need to repeat them again. 

Thanks for respond. Question is very hard to answer in full measure, with complete sincerity and openness. But, this is not environment to be completely open on every aspects of own private life. I truly appreciated your sincerity John and contribution you made by brave comments and experience you went through.  

First and only sincerity one must show, 

is in front "mirror"  when we looking own face, literal and spiritual. Would we go so far and tell some "secret" feelings and thoughts? It requires more faith and courage than of many who have been called "people of faith".

"The Truth". How widely meaning and many areas are covered in this word. 

 

 

 

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"The Truth". How widely meaning and many areas are covered in this word. 

Yes, too many areas and too many meanings. In a law court people will swear on the Bible to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... But it means nothing to person that wants to tell lies. Swearing on the Bible would just be one more lie for them to tell. 

And with Bible truth, who really knows. Do you think God meant all of us to go as far as Strong's Concordance to study His word ? I think not. 

And in my opinion, I feel that only the Anointed can have the 'true' understanding. I think that an Anointed class Earthwide is needed to get full understanding. This is a long way from the JW, Governing Body viewpoint. They think it is only them 8 men that can pass on understanding to us all... I think God will show us all who the real Anointed are when He is ready to reveal it  to us. Until then we just have to wait. 

 

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On 10/29/2018 at 4:04 PM, Space Merchant said:

Also it goes hand in hand with a saying we have today "Do not kick a man when hes down".

That being said, this verse is way too obvious in meaning to take it out of context, it pretty much tells you the context itself.

There is a very real difference between "kicking a man when he is down" when someone has stumbled or become a victim of folly, or chance and circumstance .... and "kicking a man when he is down" who just tried to assault you ... or did in fact assault you, and in combat you prevailed and got him to the ground.

In that case, I would kick him while he was down until he completely and unquestionably had the ability to fight permanently removed from his sorry body ....  and completely ceased to be a threat to anyone.

THAT ... IS CONTEXT!

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On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

What in this words told by Jesus need some extra context with some special interpretation, that is not visible while reader reading it? - “You have heard that it was said, ...."

Those who listened Jesus at moment he gave sermon knew well WHO told them;

1) You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.

2) You shall not commit adultery

3) Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.

4) Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made

5) Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.

6) Love your neighbor  and hate your enemy.

Foremost commandments are still in use and the very fact that the Law Commandments hangs on to them still to this day, therefore, the context is indeed there.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

It is noticeable how Jesus have extra appendix on every of this listed, quoted things he made. Did he go beyond already said and written? He gave some  additional explanation? He gave not just an explanation, but even a guide that differs from what they were taught.

He has not, for what he speaks of is of what is written.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

All this 6 points you can find in Ten commands and Mosaic Law. But one you would not find - "hate your enemy". But Bible have idea of hating. Not only hating bad things in general or bad deeds made by people. Bible talking about hate that is directed towards other people. 

There is no law, the Mosaic Law that says to hate your enemy. So far you have not proven anything thus far, Srecko.

You also still haven't shown anything pertaining to political leaders, therefore, you, Srecko, are adding to the text, thus going out of context as seen here.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

General idea of "hating" is visible in book Ec. 3:8. ...a time to love and a time to hate

So suddenly you do not want to talk about the Law and the commandments? Why the change? In this case, do you yourself understand this verse?

Because already the Strong's stack up against you, before I post them I'd like to see your resolve.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Psalm 139:21,22 ....Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Hosea 9:15 Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them 

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters— yes, even his own life— he cannot be My disciple.

So how does that equal, according to you, to a law that does not exist among the Jews?

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

In sermon, Jesus talking about NOT HATING enemy but also about HATING family members. 

So why assume such in your previous response? Jesus did in fact gave the ability to bind and loosen and even spoke of relatives even family members who do not accept him, the Christ an the teachings.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

You can talk about so called CONTEXT how much you wish and want, but what is said - it is said, and how it was said -it was said. WTJWorg in some of Bible verses  found basis for shunning, avoiding and ignoring those who disagree about WT doctrines.    

You yourself do not understand context, for if you had, you realize what Jesus professed about the Church HE has built. The Watchtower never existed 2,000 years ago, but the apostolic church did, with proof and evidence and even the Didache points to it;s existence, the very reason as to why only few Christians are trying to apply the practices and teachings of the Church that Jesus has built. Case and point.

The expelling and Shunning command itself stems from the Christ himself. Mathew 16, 18 and what Paul put into practice.

Expelling/Shunning had been entrusted to the disciples, and on to those who led the church, the very reason as to why excommunication exist. You've been schooled on this before, and it can happen again if you wish to go that route - I do not mind speaking some sense to a man who remains ignorant of the church that existed.

Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The simple and the lukewarm will never understand anything from the Bible, and after what I had witnessed today, I see it in such ones like you.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

In one moment Jesus making corrections about Mosaic Law and oral teaching, oral law. In next moment he has told something that WT scholars using for own Oral laws and commands and instructions.

Jesus never changed the Law, the Law remains by means of the foremost commandments. They still hang and is practiced today by means of bible Principles.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Do you still want continue to insist on so called Context? What Context, when whole  Bible can be used for particular interest of  governing elite. :))) Each group will find its context and claim how that is A Context. :))

Yes, the context should be spoken and this time no one is going to be soft about it either. If you want to go over that of what Jesus entrusted, I would when he does come, he give you time to make answer as to why you are shifting and or breaking away from his Word. I suggest you read Matthew 7:20-23.

You do not have to like expelling, but to remove it when it was commanded by means of the Christ and applied by his followers, to their followers ad even the students of the apostle and onward, you'll answer to that when he returns, so have many who choose to go down that route.

On 11/2/2018 at 3:10 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

OK, i can "swallow" this interpretation and make careful agree with idea you present, BUT when you say "to love less" what you really mean by that? What is truly, actually everyday way how you and other JW member SHOW this "less love" ??!!  And what when your family member decide not to be JW or stop to be JW?

 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jacob made love to Rachel also, and his love for Rachel was greater than his love for Leah. And he worked for Laban another seven years.

 When the Lord saw that Leah was not loved, he enabled her to conceive, but Rachel remained childless.  Leah became pregnant and gave birth to a son. She named him Reuben,[a] for she said, “It is because the Lord has seen my misery. Surely my husband will love me now.”

 

Here we have some gradation, degrees, in feelings of love. (Hate can also have gradation)

greater love

grater than

not loved

 

In one moment we have information (inspired information) how Jacob was not just showed  LESS love to Leah, but inspired report said how Lord saw that Leah WAS NOT LOVED. Here we have very different conclusion. Not loved at all. 

Is it possible to say how sometimes when somebody say, I love my dfd family member less, in fact means -- I do not love him/her at all? 

What literal message is here in Genesis? If you have two women in your life and you dare to love one less (or not love at all), than God will punished woman you love more. Or do i missed something and not saw some greater Context? :)) 

In next post/comment i will put another example and ask you to find a context and lesson for 21 century people. 

This is a first, you never liked Abraham, so why go about those Jacob? For last I checked you thought of Abraham as though he was an agent of Satan, as well as being selfish. Now there is no "graduation" of love, as you claim. Jacob loved both his wives, however context itself draws to to the fact that one woman was able to bare children and the other was unable to bare children, thus being barren and it is evident that Jacob wanted children, hence his sons are to become of the 12 Tribes. God came to the aid of one of the women so that she can actually bare children, and instances like this was common in those days for a woman who is barren to feel such a way when she is among those who can give birth to a child,it isn't a surprise. Also to clarify 6 tribes are of one wife, the other 3 bears 2, thus making it 12.

references and footnotes for was not loved even tells you that Leah was unable to bear children, for anyone with minimum education can point that out.

That being said, comparing this to expelled ones is a folly, for expelled persons do not act in such a way and or the latter when it comes to baring children.

If we have to take example of expelling we would have to check out the priest Elijah, not Jacob, for it would have made more sense.

And no, as far as I know, Restorationist when it comes to expelling/shunning practice number 3, so they do care if someone of their own loses church ties by means of excommunication. For this is the 8th time I have to link this website to you, educate yourself because this time around, things must be said. 

    Hello guest!

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:
  1. So David rose and he and his men went and struck
      Hello guest!
     down among the Phi·lisʹtines two[
      Hello guest!
    ]
    hundred men, and David came bringing their foreskins
      Hello guest!
     and giving them in full number to the king, to form a marriage alliance with the king. In turn Saul gave him Miʹchal his daughter as a wife.
      Hello guest!

 

If you like, please skip all that intrigues between Saul and David and fighting for power and prestige.  I am not interested in background about problems that those two individual had among them. It will be very good to see and understand what in this act is precious for Christian today to imitate when they found themselves in premarital period, about money and material issue, new family bonds,  .....

In this and other stuff about David we found description -  And David was continually acting prudently in all his ways, and Jehovah was with him.  

According to this statement it was ok to kill 200 people, even enemies, as price for bride. Bloody money, we would say today. Nice beginning  of family life. Miʹchal, Saul’s daughter must be very proud and happy when heard about trophy David has won, collected.  It seems how such way of living was the best and only possible if you want to survive in such society. We today are too much meek in comparison to manly, macho individuals as David.

Well, we have two messages from Bible:

Be meek like Jesus (read - let people spit on you) 

Be prudent like David (read - don't mess with me).

... now please would someone give context of this two teachings :))

The Philistines were not just enemies of God's people, they were enemies of God himself, hence why God's people are always in conflict with enemies of God, especially those who want to do harm to them, take their wives and children and so forth, one of them even threaten to kill a boy and feed him to the wild animals. The 200 men in question were indeed enemies of God and the only reason Saul sent David to begin with because Saul grew jealous and angry with David and attempted to kill him, and he sent David to be killed by the hands of the Philistines, however God was with David, the only reason why David prevailed, and this is not the first time.

And no, we are not living in such a society today, however, with how things are, it is more sophisticated and well calculated compared to our ancient counterparts.

Now we see here you are attempting to go out of context and trying to compare David to Jesus, may I ask, was Jesus alive in David's Day on earth when God had already told David someone will soon come to sit on his throne but not in his day?

Read your Bible Srecko because this shows you do not know what that passage entails.

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is a very real difference between "kicking a man when he is down" when someone has stumbled or become a victim of folly, or chance and circumstance .... and "kicking a man when he is down" who just tried to assault you ... or did in fact assault you, and in combat you prevailed and got him to the ground.

In that case, I would kick him while he was down until he completely and unquestionably had the ability to fight permanently removed from his sorry body ....  and completely ceased to be a threat to anyone.

THAT ... IS CONTEXT!

On the contrary, what I stated goes hand in hand with what I said previously.

And I will quote myself again, as Christians, when an enemy falls we are not to rejoice, and when he is caused to stumble, we should not b joyful to heart. Therefore we should not being boastful and or anything of that nature when it comes to an enemy an or opponent, especially at all, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the very passages made a quote of before.

That being said, to you I direct this, if a Christian who profess truth to other Christians who teach what is false ends up being beaten to a bloody mess by those same disgruntled Christians, even when he is down, they continue to beat him some more, how would that make you as a Christian feel granted you are not even on his side and or neutral to the ordeal, spectating? Clearly you won't be rejoicing over this, but some will rejoice, and they will shout and yell for the disgruntled ones to continue harming the man who is near death.

With that in mind, a man who does no harm to you should not be that position, in a grander scale, such things should not be taught to the people, getting even or fire with fire, yet they do it anyway, even the children practice this.

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29 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Ah, but what would you do to a man that had assaulted someone else, someone not able to defend themselves ? 

Would you turn away and say it's not my business ? 

Most people would succumb to the bystander syndrome/effect, even police officers and military personnel. They will not do anything because it can put them in danger physically and even cause them their life, example, a situation I posted before of a man who jumped in to stop a fight, he sends up getting a pool Stick jammed into his head, another situation whereas a child saved someone only for him to get killed, another whereas a man was shot and killed in front of his family and kids and I am pretty sure even JWs know this for I did post that one JW stumbled upon child prostitution, he was unable to do anything because the people recognized him in the neighborhood and knew where he lived his friends and family, should be taken action, he would have been dead, or his loved ones and it is not unknown to anyone what gang members who are affiliated in the practice will do to their victims, even mobsters too.

Because of things like this people succumb to this effect, although most succeed, the high risk is there, and it goes on all realms of violence, abuse, corruption, etc.

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5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Because of things like this people succumb to this effect, although most succeed, the high risk is there, and it goes on all realms of violence, abuse, corruption, etc.

There is a lot of discussion about being a good Christian Man ... but from your above comment, and your perspective, most males are woefully deficient in being a MAN. 

Having male genitalia does not make one a man ... even cows are so equipped ....

.... and CHICKENS!

 

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7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is a lot of discussion about being a good Christian Man ... but from your above comment, and your perspective, most males are woefully deficient in being a MAN. 

Having male genitalia does not make one a man ... even cows are so equipped ....

.... and CHICKENS!

 

You misinterpret my words, a good Christian man, or woman, can be subjected to brutality by other Christians, it's called infighting and it does exist, and bystander effect effects ALL of them, regardless of their background and the situation.

Let's put you and Srecko in a situation that derives from my country.

You see a violent verbal dispute go about 2 women in a merchant's market, and a fight nearly broke out and it did not happen, the next few days came about and out of nowhere occultist were seeking this woman out, revealing that the one who started the conflict not only had ties to these 2 of these occultist, but hired them to do away with the other woman how they see fit. You witness this going about, so what would you or Srecko would do? I can tell you right now, such ones, their intent isn't a one and done beating, nor was it rape, occultist in that country will tear and gut people in the most gruesome fashion, the only reason they lure people and or take people by force. Do not expect the police because in rural areas, half of them are for these occultist and the other half are not wanting to take risk because they too will have to deal with their actions, for they become victim or their family members.

Clearly you would not be able to do a thing and even if you had, they'd attack you on the spot and or take you also and be twice as worse with you.

Nowadays this is on a minimum, but this can and will actually happen, it isn't too far from someone sending a Hitman, minus the wickedness.

This is one of many examples.

The JW I mentioned who witnessed the crime and it's illegality was a teenager around the ages 16-17, and granted he lived in that neighborhood and was preaching there, he witnessed the ordeal with the underage prostitute and those around here, if he did take action, it is not unknown to anyone of what would happen, if you or Srecko were in his shoes, most likely they will come for you, hunting you down, perhaps a drive-by should you say anything, or they would go for your family before they come after you, which is the common case with gangsters regarding someone they are targeting. Bystander Effect would kick in even though you want to do something, perhaps speak up but you cannot, mainly when you are one man, or in this situation, one man of color. The police can be corrupted also and even if you ask them, they'd set you up to be in the hands of the gangsters, and should you try to convince the underage prostitute to flee from the gang, she, who is already mentally linked with the gangsters, would also expose you.

So technically you have no ground here, the only viable option is to gain community support while remaining anonymous and it would most likely do something, however, the problems will persist for issues like this cannot be 100% purged from a neighborhood, let alone all over the United States and or around the Worldwide.

There is a time to be wise and at some of these times, one cannot be stupid when they know the risks, at the same time should you play your part, know that action can also reap consequences to others and or oneself.

Also check this out: 

    Hello guest!

It is complicated, but it is true.

 

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I always thought cows were female, having udders.. I thought it was bulls and steers that were male :) 

Chickens too are female here in UK. Males are cockerels or roosters.

But I think you are referring to this Macho male image of a man. Does that come from spending years in the Armed Forces or are you naturally a rough, tough type of guy ?  

I have no idea where S.M. lives but by the way he talks it must be a dark and dismal violent sort of place, full of voodoo, witch doctors, blood shed and other wickedness. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

You misinterpret my words, a good Christian man, or woman, can be subjected to brutality by other Christians, it's called infighting and it does exist, and bystander effect effects ALL of them, regardless of their background and the situation.

Let's put you and Srecko in a situation that derives from my country.

You see a violent verbal dispute go about 2 women in a merchant's market, and a fight nearly broke out and it did not happen, the next few days came about and out of nowhere occultist were seeking this woman out, revealing that the one who started the conflict not only had ties to these 2 of these occultist, but hired them to do away with the other woman how they see fit. You witness this going about, so what would you or Srecko would do? I can tell you right now, such ones, their intent isn't a one and done beating, nor was it rape, occultist in that country will tear and gut people in the most gruesome fashion, the only reason they lure people and or take people by force. Do not expect the police because in rural areas, half of them are for these occultist and the other half are not wanting to take risk because they too will have to deal with their actions, for they become victim or their family members.

Clearly you would not be able to do a thing and even if you had, they'd attack you on the spot and or take you also and be twice as worse with you.

Nowadays this is on a minimum, but this can and will actually happen, it isn't too far from someone sending a Hitman, minus the wickedness.

This is one of many examples.

The JW I mentioned who witnessed the crime and it's illegality was a teenager around the ages 16-17, and granted he lived in that neighborhood and was preaching there, he witnessed the ordeal with the underage prostitute and those around here, if he did take action, it is not unknown to anyone of what would happen, if you or Srecko were in his shoes, most likely they will come for you, hunting you down, perhaps a drive-by should you say anything, or they would go for your family before they come after you, which is the common case with gangsters regarding someone they are targeting. Bystander Effect would kick in even though you want to do something, perhaps speak up but you cannot, mainly when you are one man, or in this situation, one man of color. The police can be corrupted also and even if you ask them, they'd set you up to be in the hands of the gangsters, and should you try to convince the underage prostitute to flee from the gang, she, who is already mentally linked with the gangsters, would also expose you.

So technically you have no ground here, the only viable option is to gain community support while remaining anonymous and it would most likely do something, however, the problems will persist for issues like this cannot be 100% purged from a neighborhood, let alone all over the United States and or around the Worldwide.

There is a time to be wise and at some of these times, one cannot be stupid when they know the risks, at the same time should you play your part, know that action can also reap consequences to others and or oneself.

Also check this out: 

    Hello guest!

It is complicated, but it is true.

 

The gangsters allow Jehovah's Witnesses to walk around preaching in these areas ?  And do the JW's carry guns? 

I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England, although you know we have murders here but they are rare occurrences.  

I believe that God finds a person, a person doesn't find God. But how does a person when found by God get out of such a situation as you have mentioned ? An under age prostitute. How will she be able to change her ways so that she can serve God ?  A drug dealer that wants to leave his organisation of criminals. It must be difficult for him to break away and start a new life. But, yes we know, with God all things are possible. 

 

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46 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The gangsters allow Jehovah's Witnesses to walk around preaching in these areas ?  And do the JW's carry guns? 

I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England, although you know we have murders here but they are rare occurrences.  

I believe that God finds a person, a person doesn't find God. But how does a person when found by God get out of such a situation as you have mentioned ? An under age prostitute. How will she be able to change her ways so that she can serve God ?  A drug dealer that wants to leave his organisation of criminals. It must be difficult for him to break away and start a new life. But, yes we know, with God all things are possible. 

 

If you understood the gravity about what he is saying he speaks about what former Jehovah's Witnesses have said regarding current Jehovah's Witnesses. They preach that the Watchtower and at the Watchtower Headquarters that there are guns and other weapons of destruction that are hidden within the underbelly of Kingdomsl Hall, which was also brought up last November by former Jehovah's Witnesses. 

England isn't peaceful, you are only lucky to live where the heat has not touched you, but it has for others. Hate Crimes, Acid Attacks, Knife Attacks, even performed by those on bikes, Machetes, and it is even greater in London and Khan does not know his own country, as do most British people, you may be included in the bunch. 

SM is referring to something he posted before if you look at his history. Underage Prostitution is an issue in the United States, and myself, who lives there, the Tri State area, can tell you this is an actual problem. If I am not mistaken SM isn't a practitioner of voodoo, there are those in the Caribbean that do, I know because I am Dominican andthis is true when it comes to off limit areas. At the same time a lot of people are against voodoo and SM in his past comments made it known some of his family members had been killed by those who practice it if you look at his forum history and Blood and Crips are American gangs, some of them having affiliation to child/underage Prostitution wherever the money is coming from they will have a hand in it.

If the Jehovah's Witness who is most likely a black teenager did something  he would be killed. his family would be killed. And it is stupid to confront an underaged prostitute who is heavily connected to gang members, the most common being Bloods and Crips. If you were in that position, most likely you would have been killed, perhaps followed home and your actions caused the death of not only you alone but your family also and nearby folks who do not know what's going on. It's called street smarts and situations like this you should not get involved in, take example from 1 Thessalonians 4:11 to 18.

Yes some situations are grime, but it cannot always be helped. You cannot care for your family or friends regardless of the relationship if you are a corpse, you should be aware of that.

Blood and Crips as well as the MS 13 are hardcore in their craft and there is little chance of them breaking away for if you leave a hand it is a high chance you'll be assassinated in the most brutal fashion and be made an example of.

If you follow the British man TGA, you are aligned with his belief of Jehovah's Witnesses harboring firearms. This isn't the case because me or my family do not stockpile weapons under the halls nor do we stash poison or even think of killing a fellow man with poison. But you, former Jehovah's Witnesses wouldn't give a care if you influence a man to commit arson and riddle the halls with bullets, yet we do not act as others do, we do not seek vengeance but you guys make it seems we do.

The bystander effect can take up anyone and most likely it can be the case with you. Be very careful of London, Shadiq Khan was wrong to speak of how safe it is.

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7 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

If you understood the gravity about what he is saying he speaks about what former Jehovah's Witnesses have said regarding current Jehovah's Witnesses. They preach that the Watchtower and at the Watchtower Headquarters that there are guns and other weapons of destruction that are hidden within the underbelly of Kingdomsl Hall, which was also brought up last November by former Jehovah's Witnesses. 

England isn't peaceful, you are only lucky to live where the heat has not touched you, but it has for others. Hate Crimes, Acid Attacks, Knife Attacks, even performed by those on bikes, Machetes, and it is even greater in London and Khan does not know his own country, as do most British people, you may be included in the bunch. 

SM is referring to something he posted before if you look at his history. Underage Prostitution is an issue in the United States, and myself, who lives there, the Tri State area, can tell you this is an actual problem. If I am not mistaken SM isn't a practitioner of voodoo, there are those in the Caribbean that do, I know because I am Dominican andthis is true when it comes to off limit areas. At the same time a lot of people are against voodoo and SM in his past comments made it known some of his family members had been killed by those who practice it if you look at his forum history and Blood and Crips are American gangs, some of them having affiliation to child/underage Prostitution wherever the money is coming from they will have a hand in it.

If the Jehovah's Witness who is most likely a black teenager did something  he would be killed. his family would be killed. And it is stupid to confront an underaged prostitute who is heavily connected to gang members, the most common being Bloods and Crips. If you were in that position, most likely you would have been killed, perhaps followed home and your actions caused the death of not only you alone but your family also and nearby folks who do not know what's going on. It's called street smarts and situations like this you should not get involved in, take example from 1 Thessalonians 4:11 to 18.

Yes some situations are grime, but it cannot always be helped. You cannot care for your family or friends regardless of the relationship if you are a corpse, you should be aware of that.

Blood and Crips as well as the MS 13 are hardcore in their craft and there is little chance of them breaking away for if you leave a hand it is a high chance you'll be assassinated in the most brutal fashion and be made an example of.

If you follow the British man TGA, you are aligned with his belief of Jehovah's Witnesses harboring firearms. This isn't the case because me or my family do not stockpile weapons under the halls nor do we stash poison or even think of killing a fellow man with poison. But you, former Jehovah's Witnesses wouldn't give a care if you influence a man to commit arson and riddle the halls with bullets, yet we do not act as others do, we do not seek vengeance but you guys make it seems we do.

The bystander effect can take up anyone and most likely it can be the case with you. Be very careful of London, Shadiq Khan was wrong to speak of how safe it is.

Wow, someone rattle your cage ? You are joining forces with S.M. ?

You are counting me amongst violent people ? Just because i am an Ex-JW you think I'm a gangster ? 

Climb down off your high horse for a moment. If you are a JW you sure don't sound like one. 

I never said England was peaceful. I said "I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England"  I know what happens in other parts. My brother and sister live in our hometown of Reading, just 30 miles from London. I visit occasionally but only stay for the shortest of time. 

I also wasn't suggesting that S.M. practised Voodoo. I was suggesting that Voodoo was practised in the area where he lived, as he seems to know about such things. 

As for me 'following' anyone else, you are totally off course. You seem to be suggesting that anyone that is an Ex-JW must be part of a movement of some kind. How wrong you are. I am not that weak. I do not need holding up by others. I am my own man. 

I have no thoughts of JW's having firearms. i have no thoughts of JW's harming others physically. BUT i do have thoughts of the GB and JW Org harming people spiritually. 

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Just now, JOHN BUTLER said:

Wow, someone rattle your cage ? You are joining forces with S.M. ?

You are counting me amongst violent people ? Just because i am an Ex-JW you think I'm a gangster ? 

Climb down off your high horse for a moment. If you are a JW you sure don't sound like one. 

I never said England was peaceful. I said "I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England"  I know what happens in other parts. My brother and sister live in our hometown of Reading, just 30 miles from London. I visit occasionally but only stay for the shortest of time. 

I also wasn't suggesting that S.M. practised Voodoo. I was suggesting that Voodoo was practised in the area where he lived, as he seems to know about such things. 

As for me 'following' anyone else, you are totally off course. You seem to be suggesting that anyone that is an Ex-JW must be part of a movement of some kind. How wrong you are. I am not that weak. I do not need holding up by others. I am my own man. 

I have no thoughts of JW's having firearms. i have no thoughts of JW's harming others physically. BUT i do have thoughts of the GB and JW Org harming people spiritually. 

It isn't about joining him or not, but I understand what he is saying and since I live in America, I know who the bloods are the crips and the MS 13 gang and I know what role they play in child prostitution, if the money is there they will go for it, but the MS 13 major care is to inflict pain, killing people in the process. 

I never counted you and I don't see SM throwing all former Jehovah's Witnesses into one pot. He is aware of the different factions of them and the fact he mentioned TGA gives an idea of who among former Jehovah's Witnesses you follow. I know who TGA is and how he is with other former Jehovah's Witnesses. It is also hypocrisy to say he puts them all in one basket when he can differentiate whose who, which is the case for some of us who has been harrassed by former Jehovah's Witnesses, in my case it is the one called Faithful Slave and his friends.

Islanders, even for us Dominicans are aware of voodoo and some have lost family members to it. I thank Jehovah that no one I know or my family became victim of it, but the same cannot be said for others. Devil worshippers always have the jump on people because they are backed by those who support them, in Dominican Republic it isn't that big, but there are very small pockets. And no one in their right mind would confront them unless they want to also be a target. Only few policemen deal with them and military personnel. They wouldn't touch a white man or woman unless they somehow stumbled on their territory which is rare. In America and parts of the world there is Witchcraft and it is in media and books the real thing, the Bahamut followers do exist and we should not be affiliated with these people at all and avoid them, they represent Molech/Baal worshippers of old.

You sure? If Faithful Slave can rally people for his cause to take an aggressive approach while the other factions have both and or passive approach, their influence can spread. It isn't a surprise of someone in a similar situation can take up that same influence and not realize they follow it. I can say to you that you are nowhere near Faithful Slave who is on a journey to cause trouble, but the influence of the passive ones may get to you, which seems to be the case for most, this also goes for former Jehovah's, who side with Cedars and TGA that say we have firearms or the other guy Rick Fearon.

The Governing Body has not caused spiritual deprivation to me, they merely give the tools and encourage study and research. I take those tools and I grow spiritually coming to know the true God, Jehovah and know of his Son, Jesus Christ.

So you tell me, how has the organization caused me to be spiritual deprived when it enabled me to learn the Word?

What am I missing that you have found? What have you taken which I have not? What did you seek that I did not find?

If we are in the wrong, what are you preaching, do you know what you should be preaching?

Not related, but I can tell you right now there is one I recognize here who supports both the aggressive factions and the passive factions and spares no mercy to former Jehovah's Witnesses, even me, who are against these factions. I will refer to him as "Old Man".

Your picture shows you to be a good and fine family man but even the man of the house can begets ideas from those he sometimes agrees with.

I have not introduced myself, I am unknown presence, I am Jehovah's Witness and have been studying with them for I was a former Catholic. I came to know who the true God is and learned that Mary was not the Mother of God and also learned that the ghost of Mary was something of a false practice. Although now one, I am met with opposition from Former Jehovah's Witnesses who are famous among their communities, each of their own faction at the same time there are other former Jehovah's Witnesses who have been or are targets of the disgruntled former members and they support me also even defended me.

As for the odd unknown Language I tend to post, I do so so that no one recognizes what I say for a reason. If one can diciper it, good on them because I tend to keep such cryptic so I give you a freebie

this one says Greetings John Butler, dont brother translating it because you can't.

char(71)char(82)char(69)char(69)char(84)char(73)char(78)char(71)char(83) char(66)char(85)char(84)char(76)char(69)char(82)

 

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@JOHN BUTLER London is dangerous and has been for a while now. You should be aware of your surroundings at all times because the crime is higher whereas Shadiq Khan is making the fact that it is dangerous there. I pray for friends and families every day because of this. People with no care in their hearts commit such acts of harm to people. 

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@Equivocation Quote "I never counted you and I don't see SM throwing all former Jehovah's Witnesses into one pot. He is aware of the different factions of them and the fact he mentioned TGA gives an idea of who among former Jehovah's Witnesses you follow." 

It's 1.30 pm here in England. Time for me to have some lunch. But I'm actually laughing at this of which i quote from you. 

How do i put this in a pleasant manner ? I DO NOT FOLLOW ANYONE. I AM A MAN OF MY OWN THOUGHTS. I AM NOT GUIDED BY OTHER, AS YOU ARE. 

Just because you need to be following someone (your GB and Elders), don't judge me as the same. I do not need to follow anyone human. 

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2 hours ago, Equivocation said:

As for the odd unknown Language I tend to post, I do so so that no one recognizes what I say for a reason. If one can diciper it, good on them because I tend to keep such cryptic so I give you a freebie

funny, SM calling me "cryptic" .... so here i am not alone :)))))))))

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8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The gangsters allow Jehovah's Witnesses to walk around preaching in these areas ?  And do the JW's carry guns?

The Jehovah's Witnesses or a sole one? You do not know him, clearly. This JW is an African American teenager, minding his own business until he stumbled on such a thing from a distance. If he had acted, most likely he would be 6 feet under as we speak. For last time I made mention of this, he does live in a urban area and when he was done preaching he was in the area granted that he lived there, a teenager who lived with his relatives in that area, and it is not unknown to anyone that gang activity is common in urban locations, so is, in come cases prostitution, the only kicker here is the fact that child prostitution is a thing in the United States, especially in the South and the East Coast.

And no, they do not carry guns, I believe I made it clear in a discussion against Srecko and Witness. Anyone who follows Mr. Fearon to believe such nonsense is only kidding themselves - and conspiracy is something I refute and do not take kindly of.

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England, although you know we have murders here but they are rare occurrences.  

There is no safety anywhere n the world for anything can happen, it is of chance, and not even in your own home you are safe, but it would depends on the location. London is indeed dangerous in some parts, yet there are those in politics who speak of 30% safety when people are in suffering and in fear, in some cases, on a daily basis. This also goes for young women and girls too who can be subjected to grooming gangs, should they be kidnapped.

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I believe that God finds a person, a person doesn't find God. But how does a person when found by God get out of such a situation as you have mentioned ? An under age prostitute. How will she be able to change her ways so that she can serve God ?  A drug dealer that wants to leave his organisation of criminals. It must be difficult for him to break away and start a new life. But, yes we know, with God all things are possible. 

How are you so sure an underage prostitute will change so easily? If someone is affiliated with that practice long enough, perhaps born into it, you cannot assume such ones can change easily, and even if you make the attempt to do so, you not only put the underage prostitute at risk, but you yourself also, for the causer tends to get the worse of it than someone who they are after.

The case that was being made here is the crime levels, which is on equal footing that you guys in the UK, for you have knives, in the US it tends to be shoot first, ask questions later. Now, the example posed, regardless if an action was taken, it is a high risk of putting a target on your back and getting other bystanders who are not involved, killed or assassinated in the process if there is even the slightest connection with you.

It should be known to you that there is wickedness in the world, you have only proven my previous points when I am aware of the wickedness when you are focusing on a sole group of people, you have to understand that the ruler of this world is the Devil and his influence is everywhere, but those influenced by him does not define the decisions and actions of a group of people, be it a faith and or race.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Wow, someone rattle your cage ? You are joining forces with S.M. ?

You are counting me amongst violent people ? Just because i am an Ex-JW you think I'm a gangster ? 

I do not believe he called you a gangster, he is only point you some of your views matching up with Mr. Gardener, granted you yourself did bring him up previously.

Clearly I profess that there is good and bad people, I do not mark all former JWs as the same for I had spoken of the difference now and I had in the past here, even to you I made mention of this, do you not recall your former responses?

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I also wasn't suggesting that S.M. practised Voodoo. I was suggesting that Voodoo was practised in the area where he lived, as he seems to know about such things. 

And no, I am aware of occultism, I do not practice it. Just as a Father and Mother teaches their child about Strangers (Stranger-Danger as they say), the occultism was known to him after several of my family members had become victim to those who practice it, and even to this day such a thing stems into politics and the like.

As a child, even if I had the chance, I'd still be powerless to those who had done away with my family members, therefore I speak of the bystander effect as I have now and as I have before, for this isn't the first time I made comment to it.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for me 'following' anyone else, you are totally off course. You seem to be suggesting that anyone that is an Ex-JW must be part of a movement of some kind. How wrong you are. I am not that weak. I do not need holding up by others. I am my own man. 

But you yourself had posted the gofundme to the very man who took on to the side of aggressive witnessing, as they say, the same man who rallied against another, fat shaming, giving death threats and the like. I can quote you even, as well as your comment on a regarding protest. For this man I even made mention, even responded to you at the time regarding this.

That being said, it is best to know the difference, at all times and know who among who has been affected by the actions of such ones, clearly it can be seen. I will leave this with you so you better understand as to where the other guy is coming from (After your ARC thread, you missed on this) :

 

 

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I have no idea where S.M. lives but by the way he talks it must be a dark and dismal violent sort of place, full of voodoo, witch doctors, blood shed and other wickedness. 

Granted that I spoken about the US time and time again, it should be obvious of where I am. by the way I talk in general or based on the small brief response in example regarding bystander effect? I rather you not assume, but you are lucky because unlike others, I do not take offend to that besides.

Know this, I am totally aware of the works of the wicked on this world, I advise you to do the same because any small step can land you somewhere without knowing and you end up paying for it, knowingly and or unknowingly.

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4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

funny, SM calling me "cryptic" .... so here i am not alone :)))))))))

Well now you got a friend, Srecko, one who is using language that isn't even real at random it seems.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

About SM calling for JTR and my respond.

People today need some strong, courage and independent men like Abraham and David. For sure they would know how to handle situation SM described.   

That's funny, you called Abraham selfish, spoke ill of him and his wife, why is it now you show the respect? David had fought those who took up false gods, Abraham did everything in his power to have his family know who the True God is, and not adhere to the falsehood of others, how do you think they would handle the situation? You answered yourself long time ago regarding Abraham and his dealings with Egypt, having a total disregard of God's Promise to him. That being said, I brought up these examples for a reason.

If you think that taking such as  risk man's you a man, you should be aware of the price that hangs and the consequences that comes with it.

The response is very basic, but you never answered it, for in one situation something CAN be done and the other nothing CAN be done. I leave it with you to see which one is which.

That being said, I hold true to my word as to what I said in page 2 as with the bystander effect because it is indeed - true.

That being said, I am still waiting for your claim of political leaders who show support of laws not of God, or the Law of which you assume is in the Bible about hating your enemy - so far you've not spoken a word and it seems yielding upon others to evade such of what is asked of you.

Classic Srecko. I agree with you regarding about being cryptic.

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6 hours ago, Equivocation said:

It isn't about joining him or not, but I understand what he is saying and since I live in America, I know who the bloods are the crips and the MS 13 gang and I know what role they play in child prostitution, if the money is there they will go for it, but the MS 13 major care is to inflict pain, killing people in the process. 

Do not blame him for Mr. Butler does not know. He lives in the UK unaware of what takes place. The gangs who take up child prostitution as a means to make coin cannot cease from the communities, but some effort is necessary. What can be done is to teach the children, for gangs tend to go for younger ones to recruit them to their cause, as for the Ms-13 gang it is a mixed bag because they would kill/target anyone regardless of who they are. They enjoy and they take it as a challenge because of the Us president provoking them time and time again, and as of recent, some young ones paid for it, to make matters worse, they took the girl's mother too., Therefore it makes them a bit more lethal than Bloods, Crips, or perhaps the Latin Kings.

All in all, they are equally dangerous.

6 hours ago, Equivocation said:

I never counted you and I don't see SM throwing all former Jehovah's Witnesses into one pot. He is aware of the different factions of them and the fact he mentioned TGA gives an idea of who among former Jehovah's Witnesses you follow. I know who TGA is and how he is with other former Jehovah's Witnesses. It is also hypocrisy to say he puts them all in one basket when he can differentiate whose who, which is the case for some of us who has been harrassed by former Jehovah's Witnesses, in my case it is the one called Faithful Slave and his friends.

Former Jehovah's Witnesses have several groups, among them being small branches, you even have those who do not side with the aggressive or passive aggressive ones or their views. Such ones keep to themselves, move on, as they say, others tend to hold on to the life lessons they picked up from the faith, one man who spoken up during the whole Russian thing that went down.

Both Neil Gardner and the other guy are for aggressive witnessing, they were the ones responsible for running the man who spoke up off social media last year, and I made mention of this on the thread I linked to Mr. Butler.

That being said, granted they hit the Borough, Passaic County, the Jw Church in question was I think the only one that FS went to with his group to disrupt the service, and later on the whole girlfriend situation ensued. This took place after the Jewish Cemetery attack, as with the whole situation of the man who halted the Warick protest.

6 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Islanders, even for us Dominicans are aware of voodoo and some have lost family members to it. I thank Jehovah that no one I know or my family became victim of it, but the same cannot be said for others. Devil worshippers always have the jump on people because they are backed by those who support them, in Dominican Republic it isn't that big, but there are very small pockets. And no one in their right mind would confront them unless they want to also be a target. Only few policemen deal with them and military personnel. They wouldn't touch a white man or woman unless they somehow stumbled on their territory which is rare. In America and parts of the world there is Witchcraft and it is in media and books the real thing, the Bahamut followers do exist and we should not be affiliated with these people at all and avoid them, they represent Molech/Baal worshippers of old.

This I had explained, I suggest you check my other response in this regard.

6 hours ago, Equivocation said:

You sure? If Faithful Slave can rally people for his cause to take an aggressive approach while the other factions have both and or passive approach, their influence can spread. It isn't a surprise of someone in a similar situation can take up that same influence and not realize they follow it. I can say to you that you are nowhere near Faithful Slave who is on a journey to cause trouble, but the influence of the passive ones may get to you, which seems to be the case for most, this also goes for former Jehovah's, who side with Cedars and TGA that say we have firearms or the other guy Rick Fearon.

Mr. Butler is no FS, obviously, although the small support in even referring Mr. Gardner, I made a response to here before. I also spoke about the whole gun bunkers thing, which has been debunked.

 

6 hours ago, Equivocation said:

The Governing Body has not caused spiritual deprivation to me, they merely give the tools and encourage study and research. I take those tools and I grow spiritually coming to know the true God, Jehovah and know of his Son, Jesus Christ.

So you tell me, how has the organization caused me to be spiritual deprived when it enabled me to learn the Word?

What am I missing that you have found? What have you taken which I have not? What did you seek that I did not find?

If we are in the wrong, what are you preaching, do you know what you should be preaching?

It is not known to any Restoration to be Spiritually Deprived, which is false and at times this can be used against you because some people want to hit you where it hurts, but the reality is you are not Spiritually Deprived. If they have given you the tools to make research of the Bible, seek all that comes from Scripture, so in turn, you do not lack, but rather, learn.

You are not missing anything, nor as anything taken is not known to you or others. Mr. Butler himself is still seeking granted one of his other response elsewhere, as for you I do not know how long you were a JW, but by your comments, I must assume you are fairly young, for if emotion in regards to what ExJws have done somewhat effects you.

Your concern you should the good news gospel and the Messianic Age, this should be preached by ALL Christians, but some do not adhere to the Great Commission or the command of the Christ, or the followers of the Christ to the people, for that matter.

The discretion is who is doing things for God and his Christ and who is not.

6 hours ago, Equivocation said:

I have not introduced myself, I am unknown presence, I am Jehovah's Witness and have been studying with them for I was a former Catholic. I came to know who the true God is and learned that Mary was not the Mother of God and also learned that the ghost of Mary was something of a false practice. Although now one, I am met with opposition from Former Jehovah's Witnesses who are famous among their communities, each of their own faction at the same time there are other former Jehovah's Witnesses who have been or are targets of the disgruntled former members and they support me also even defended me.

Former JWs who do speak up are drowned out by disgruntled ones, hence the difference can be made. If you are a Catholic and this early as a JW it seems, you have a lot to learn. Clearly jumping on anyone who supports Gardner and FS isn't a great start, but again, I see where you are coming from after what took place.

even in bible times, some of God's people had something of the like, but later on, they make the change. Be mild and meek always, do not let someone who has a hatred towards you make you feel this way, this is coming from a guy who is of color who deals with discrimination, in my case, if it makes you feel any better, as of recent, I was called out that because I am black, I cannot know the Bible, although it was random and has struck a cord, I was calm, but somewhat strict in my words of the bible and the demon filled one had went his way when he was exposed as a fool.

The good thing is you are quick to forgive, so keep that for it goes hand in hand with the foremost commandments and the laws that hang by it in terms of Bible Principles.

6 hours ago, Equivocation said:

As for the odd unknown Language I tend to post, I do so so that no one recognizes what I say for a reason. If one can diciper it, good on them because I tend to keep such cryptic so I give you a freebie

this one says Greetings John Butler, dont brother translating it because you can't.

char(71)char(82)char(69)char(69)char(84)char(73)char(78)char(71)char(83) char(66)char(85)char(84)char(76)char(69)char(82)

Other than that, the symbol/font, whatever it is, it is a bit glaring to the eyes just as all caps tends is also glaring to the eyes.

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9 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But I think you are referring to this Macho male image of a man. Does that come from spending years in the Armed Forces or are you naturally a rough, tough type of guy ?  

I am a very gentile, kind, considerate person who speaks in a low tone of voice, never argues, and tries to be helpful to every one.

Everywhere around me is a secure, safe space that people can depend on for succor and refuge. Pleasantness and peace surrounds me, and mine.  People of evil intent avoid me, and I avoid them. 

I have lived and worked in areas where sandbags and barbed wire coiled up on the front porch was normal, and hotels on the second floor had to have drapes pulled to keep from being shot at.

I consider such things as part of life, and it does not upset me at all.  I just make sure I am careful, and do not confront anyone, and keep a "thousand yard stare", for potential danger.  

I am 72 years old, and never been in trouble with any gang or government, never arrested, and never questioned by police except for one time when I was taking some pet turtles to the James River, in Virginia.

Perhaps my general appearance helps in some way ... as I am 6'-6" tall and weigh 287 pounds, and carry a silenced 9mm handgun with a green laser in a shoulder holster under my left armpit, and two extra magazines and a Mark VI Vietnam era bayonet under the right one., and a .38 cal. handgun in my pocket ... all completely "street legal", with appropriate "paperwork".

I also carry several cans of dog food, and bottles of water in the trunk of my car, in case there are any stray dogs that look hungry.

When I went out in Service in high crime areas with a bunch of Sisters, I have heard them across the street say to each other ... "Don't worry, Brother Rook is watching over us."

That makes me smile, because I was.

 

 

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. The Vietnam War was crazy and a violent time, the US has brought that upon themselves by sending the young to fight an old man's war to correct an irrelevant problem, with some wishing why they are even there to begin with. The powers that be juggles the lives of the weary and gullible.

That being said you beat me by 2 inches, 6.4 ft. Anyways, you have to always be vigilant because nowadays we have people who are crazed who walk among us, and will commit to vile action at random and or by being provoked.

But do not worry, in some areas, they won't attack an Attorney or a Missionary, but you still have to be careful.

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I dislike leaving things up to chance.

My second gun also has a laser, and assuming that I have not been killed first, I can hit center mass in two directions at once, with peripheral vision.

The price of Liberty, Freedom, and Peace ... is eternal vigilance, and superior competency.

What.  Me Worry   .jpg

 

 

..... AND .... pure dumb luck.

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@Space Merchant Quote But you yourself had posted the gofundme to the very man who took on to the side of aggressive witnessing, as they say, the same man who rallied against another, fat shaming, giving death threats and the like. I can quote you even, as well as your comment on a regarding protest. For this man I even made mention, even responded to you at the time regarding this.

You have totally lost me on this one. The only thing i can think of is the London protests, which i thought were going to be peaceful or even silent protests just using banners / slogans. However i found out afterwards that it was not an Anti JW protest but more like an Anti God protest. A homoesxual man protesting and saying that God did not exist was one thing that I disagreed with, and I got muck slung at me for disagreeing with it,  from the organisers. 

So quote me, and make me remember, if you think I'm in favour of aggressive protests....The truth is I am only in favour of sensible peaceful protests and yes i think they can work well. 

As for my question about gangsters allowing JW's to preach in the area, it was a genuine question. And also my question about do JW's carry a gun for protection in such areas, that was also a genuine question. Remember please I'm in England, i do not know how things are in the USA. Yes we have crime here as well but it still feels safe enough to walk the streets in daylight. Well here in Devon it feels safe anyway, maybe not so much in London. 

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James you are so funny i don't know what to believe and what not to believe from you. I'm not saying you tell lies but you make it all sound like a joke. I'll have to just pass it by because i honestly don't know how much of what you say is supposed to be taken seriously. 

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4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You have totally lost me on this one. The only thing i can think of is the London protests, which i thought were going to be peaceful or even silent protests just using banners / slogans. However i found out afterwards that it was not an Anti JW protest but more like an Anti God protest. A homoesxual man protesting and saying that God did not exist was one thing that I disagreed with, and I got muck slung at me for disagreeing with it,  from the organisers. 

Yes, and the one regarding JWs was of Gardner's design and his followers, you even brought it up before. There are countless of protesting in the UK, I know the situation with Tommy Robinson, although he isn't one I adhere to on some cases, for I do not see the actions of one person define a whole group, your government tried to have this man killed in prison by the very people he spoke against, to add more fuel to the fire, this is the same government that let men run free who were part of a grooming gang, a child prostitution ring.

That being said, Mr. Gardner isn't someone who is against JWs only, he is against the Bible itself and often mocks Scripture and should anyone say otherwise about the Bible, he bashes them and others follow suit.

You think that is crazy, several months ago a Canadian woman was banned from the UK, a Robinson supporter of the same media group, her name is Lauren Southern, alongside Brittany Pettibone.

As with all protests, there is also influence, and granted it was mention what is going on in the UK, some things said and done can spark hate crimes.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So quote me, and make me remember, if you think I'm in favour of aggressive protests....The truth is I am only in favour of sensible peaceful protests and yes i think they can work well. 

And yet you were not too shy to bring forth Mr. Gardner when at the time I made it known to you as to his card in all of this.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for my question about gangsters allowing JW's to preach in the area, it was a genuine question. And also my question about do JW's carry a gun for protection in such areas, that was also a genuine question. Remember please I'm in England, i do not know how things are in the USA. Yes we have crime here as well but it still feels safe enough to walk the streets in daylight. Well here in Devon it feels safe anyway, maybe not so much in London. 

Gangsters do not allow JWs to preach in the area. JWs are all over the place, as you said, earthwide, all of them do not live in a good areas as you do, for in the US, there is urban areas, a whole lot of it due to how the government has deprived the people, shutting down businesses and a list of other things. This results in a breeding ground for gangsters, the most common being Bloods, Crips and Latin Kings, all of them in the East Coast, there are several others who have a hold down in the South-East, such as Zoe Pound, Sons of Silence, Latin Syndicate, La Raza Nation, Highwaymen, there is over a dozen - no one, even JWs have no control of gangs taking up an area, for they, as with the community are to be vigilant, even schools for most gang recruitment is done in schools by means of hazing and other things, and eventually an initiation which involves the killing of an innocent person.

Well if you are unaware you would not be quick to say to the other guy of comparing you to a gangster. MS-13 is by far the most violent one as of late, if not, even more crazed and, hellishly dangerous. the very reason why when they somehow show up in your area, the police will not help you, even if their presence is brief, therefore, by the instant of a millisecond you will the bystander effect take hold of you because knowing them, you can even tell by looking at them, that they can do very very bad things to you and your family and or anything connected to you. In the example posed, it was an African American JW, a teenager, who does live in a urban area during that time, as of now he does not live there anymore, but he did see gangsters, possibly bloods granted bloods only wear red and will shoot quickly to anyone wearing a solid blue, for blue represents crips. They pimp out young girls to people in order to make money and should you do anything about it, even trying to convince the girl who is hard-pressed that you are attacking her, chances are you would not live seconds later and or live through the night, MS-13 does the same thing but it is a whole different beast on it's own and clearly any JWs, mainly from the Black and Latino communities wouldn't think twice of crossing paths with them. It would be very rare, but some of them will simply mock God and the bible, dare you say something the next place you will end up at is either the nearest hospital in critical condition or simply the morgue.

I will link this here so you have some understanding: 

    Hello guest!

And one of the recent stories of a mother who played hero to save her girl, but ended up in the cemetery - it is that bad and the very reason as to why the bystander effect kicks in for some, knowingly and or unknowingly.

    Hello guest!

The other ones that is most common in the East Coast and Tri-state areas:

    • Hello guest!
    • Hello guest!
    • Hello guest!

 

That being said, JWs do not harbor guns in their churches, something of which I made very clear to both Srecko and Witness. And there is a clear exchange between a Christian and an ExJW support of Fearon in the other thread, as with their debate on weddings and rings.

Mr. Butler, even in England you have gangs, I already mentioned one to you, The Grooming Gang, which targets solely British girls, primary targets being 16 and under, and members of such a group tend to get a free pass in the UK granted that Tommy Robinson had been arrested and jailed in an attempt to stop them, only this time he was not trying to compare all Muslims are child kidnapping pedophiles, he solely targeted the ones responsible for the Groom Gangs, but his followers began attacking all Muslims at Hyde Park.

And it is fairly easy to rally up a mob in the UK, there was a situation in August whereas some Americans, although I dislike them and their antics, were attacked, their father being punched in the face as he ran. All it took was an exchange of insults and influence to rally up a large mob of young teenagers to cause problems spreading hate and perhaps willing to kill if they had the chance, but they wanted to see a fight, for if that was not the case, breaking news would have been on your TV and perhaps the media in the UK will pull it's false flag antics as professed by Robinson, for this does happen a lot over there.

The UK isn't too far off from us in the US. You have Sectarian, drug and organized crime gangs, minus the flashy colors. They tend to wield knives and carry acid in the UK, while here it is guns, even assault rifles such as an AK-74, something of which is owned by gangsters in the South-East of the US, for example, Florida.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well here in Devon it feels safe anyway, maybe not so much in London. 

I suggest you be vigilant and always on guard. I can already see you are unaware. You do realize at some point, some time ago that drug gangs were targeting Devon? They consider Devon to be an untapped market for profits - a gold mine. I can assure you that this is not the only thing keeping criminals from entering such an area.

London in of itself is a mess, one of my sources spoke about Khan and it isn't too far from the truth in terms of the state of safety in London. 

That being said, granted you live in the area, make the research and be vigilant, and keep in mind that even confronting such ones can pose a risk to you and others and innocence strangers in connection to you, for every action reaps a positive and or a negative, which in turn reaps consequence.

Therefore these gangsters, should not be of any concern if you avoid them. Should you run into them, it would be, in some instances they mock you or give you a nod, do not give into to their advances, this is rare in the US, however a bit common to a community of blacks and latinos compared to non-black/latinos.

Granted we are talking about inspired text, best to keep this one in memory.

  • 1 Thessalonians 4:11-18 - [11] and to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, [12] so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one.

The Coming of the Lord

  • [13] But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. [14] For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. [15] For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,[a] that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. [16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. [18] Therefore encourage one another with these words.

That being said, the Missionary Life regarding Evangelicalism for some Christians is not an easy one, just as it was not easy for the Christ, nor his disciples, nor the people of the church. It applies to us today.

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3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Don't take ANY of it seriously.

Enjoy life, be happy, exult in the Day that Jehovah made.

As an aside ... my last post was 100% true.

I am glad it was funny!

There is a time to be serious and a time to not be serious. For action begets results, be it positive and or negative.

That being said, men of war who cause problems were in the wrong to send you to a place you do not want to go, just as they have with Iraq, Libya and a list of other places.

These people emulate the same as the one called General Wesley Clark and look at what the sweat of their hands of done to the countries mentioned and the fact now Israel is trigger happy.

 

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    • Eric Ouellet

      Apprenons à connaître et accomplissons les voies de Jéhovah 
      “ Fais-moi connaître tes manières agir, [...] pour que je te connaisse. ” — EXODE 33:13.

      MOÏSE avait été élevé dans la maisonnée de Pharaon et instruit dans la sagesse prisée par la noblesse égyptienne. Cependant, il savait qu’il n’était pas égyptien : ses parents étaient hébreux. Alors qu’il était dans sa quarantième année, il alla rendre visite à ses frères, les fils d’Israël. La vue d’un Égyptien en train de maltraiter un Hébreu lui fut insupportable : il tua l’Égyptien. Moïse choisit d’épouser la cause du peuple de Jéhovah, persuadé que Dieu se servait de lui pour délivrer ses frères (Actes 7:21-25 ; Hébreux 11:24, 25). Lorsque l’incident vint à se savoir, la maison royale d’Égypte considéra Moïse comme un hors-la-loi, et il ne dut son salut qu’à la fuite : pour être utilisé par Jéhovah, il lui faudrait d’abord apprendre à mieux connaître Ses voies (Exode 2:11-15). Mais se laisserait-il enseigner ? — Psaume 25:9.
      Au cours des 40 années suivantes, Moïse vécut en exil et fut berger. Au lieu de s’aigrir du fait que ses frères hébreux ne l’avaient apparemment pas reconnu à sa juste valeur, il accepta cette situation permise par Dieu. De nombreuses années passèrent sans que personne ne semble prêter attention à lui, mais Jéhovah le façonnait. Plus tard Moïse écrirait, non de son propre chef, mais sous l’influence de l’esprit saint de Dieu : “ Or, Moïse était de beaucoup le plus humble de tous les hommes vivant sur la terre. ” (Nombres 12:3). Jéhovah l’a effectivement utilisé en lui confiant des responsabilités extraordinaires. Si, nous aussi, nous cherchons l’humilité, Jéhovah nous bénira. — Sophonie 2:3.
      Chargé d’une mission
      Un jour, près du mont Horeb, dans la péninsule du Sinaï, un ange parla à Moïse au nom de Jéhovah. “ Vraiment, j’ai vu là détresse  de mon peuple qui est en Égypte, lui dit-il, et j’ai entendu leur cri de plainte de ceux qui les poussent aux travaux forcés. Je connais bien les douleurs "qu’ils subissent". Aussi je descends pour les délivrer de la main des Égyptiens et pour les faire monter de ce pays vers un pays bon et vaste, vers un pays ruisselant de lait et de miel. ” (Exode 3:2, 7, 8). Dans cette perspective, Jéhovah avait une mission à confier à Moïse, mission à remplir, cette fois, selon Ses instructions.
      L’ange de Jéhovah ajouta : “ Maintenant viens ; que je t’envoie vers Pharaon, et fais sortir d’Égypte mon peuple les fils d’Israël. ” Moïse hésita. Il ne se sentait pas à la hauteur, et en cela il n’avait pas tort. Toutefois, Jéhovah lui fit cette promesse : “ Je serai avec toi. ” (Exode 3:10-12). Jéhovah allait lui accorder le pouvoir d’accomplir des signes miraculeux attestant qu’il était bien son messager. Aaron, le frère de Moïse, l’accompagnerait et lui servirait de porte-parole. Et puis Jéhovah leur enseignerait quoi dire et quoi faire (Exode 4:1-17). Moïse s’acquitterait-il fidèlement de cette mission ?
      Au début, les anciens d’Israël crurent Moïse et Aaron (Exode 4:29-31). Mais, peu après, “ les préposés des fils d’Israël ” les accusèrent de les avoir fait “ sentir mauvais ” devant Pharaon et devant ses serviteurs (Exode 5:19-21 ; 6:9). Tandis qu’ils sortaient d’Égypte, les Israélites frissonnèrent en voyant les chars égyptiens à leur poursuite. Avec devant eux la mer Rouge et derrière eux les chars de guerre ils se crurent pris au piège, et le reprochèrent encore à Moïse. Quelle aurait été votre réaction ? Les Israélites ne possédaient aucun bateau, et pourtant, conformément aux instructions de Jéhovah, Moïse leur ordonna de lever le camp. Dieu fit alors reculer les eaux de la mer Rouge. Le fond de la mer s’étant asséché, Israël put traverser. — Exode 14:1-22.
      Une préoccupation plus importante que la délivrance
      Lorsqu’il avait exposé sa mission à Moïse, Jéhovah avait souligné l’importance de Son nom. Il était capital de respecter ce nom et Celui qu’il représente. Moïse lui ayant demandé Son nom, Jéhovah avait répondu : “ Je deviendrai, ce que je décide. ” Moïse devait aussi dire aux fils d’Israël : “ Jéhovah le Dieu de vos ancêtres, le Dieu d’Abraham, le Dieu d’Isaac et le Dieu de Jacob, m’a envoyé vers vous. ” Jéhovah avait ajouté : “ C’est là mon nom pour des temps indéfinis et c’est là mon mémorial de génération en génération. ” (Exode 3:13-15). Aujourd’hui encore, Jéhovah est le nom par lequel Dieu est connu de ses serviteurs sur toute la terre. — Isaïe 12:4, 5 ; 43:10-12.
      Face à Pharaon, Moïse et Aaron transmirent leur message au nom de Jéhovah. Mais Pharaon leur répondit avec arrogance : “ Qui est Jéhovah pour que j’obéisse à sa voix en renvoyant Israël ? Je ne connais pas du tout Jéhovah ; d’ailleurs je ne renverrai pas Israël. ” (Exode 5:1, 2). Pharaon avait beau se révéler impitoyable et fourbe, Jéhovah ordonna à Moïse de lui délivrer message après message (Exode 7:14-16, 20-23 ; 8:1, 2, 20). Moïse voyait bien que Pharaon était irrité. Était-il vraiment judicieux de retourner le voir encore et encore ? Israël rêvait de liberté ; Pharaon s’obstinait à la lui refuser. Qu’auriez-vous fait à la place de Moïse ?
      Moïse délivra de nouveau un message, par ces mots : “ Voici ce qu’a dit Jéhovah le Dieu des Hébreux : ‘ Renvoie mon peuple pour qu’il me serve. ’ ” Dieu dit également : “ J’aurais déjà pu avancer ma main pour te frapper, toi et ton peuple, par la peste, afin que tu sois effacé de la terre. Mais, en fait, c’est pour cela que je t’ai laissé exister : c’est pour te faire voir ma force et afin qu’on proclame mon nom dans toute la terre. ” (Exode 9:13-16). Compte tenu de ce qu’il réservait à l’impitoyable pharaon, Jéhovah se proposa de faire la démonstration de sa puissance d’une manière telle qu’elle servirait d’avertissement à tous ceux qui le défient ; à Satan le Diable, entre autres, celui que Jésus Christ surnomma plus tard “ le chef du monde ”. (Jean 14:30 ; Romains 9:17-24.) Comme prédit, le nom de Jéhovah fut proclamé sur toute la terre. Grâce à sa patience, les Israélites furent préservés, et une foule immense et bigarrée se joignit à eux pour l’adorer (Exode 9:20, 21 ; 12:37, 38). Depuis lors, la proclamation du nom de Jéhovah a permis à des millions d’autres personnes d’embrasser le vrai culte.
      En relation avec un peuple difficile
      Les Hébreux connaissaient le nom divin. En effet, lorsqu’il s’adressait à eux, Moïse employait ce nom. Mais ils ne firent pas toujours preuve du respect qui convient envers Celui qui le porte. Peu après que Jéhovah les eut délivrés miraculeusement d’Égypte, que se passa-t-il quand les Israélites ne trouvèrent pas rapidement d’eau potable ? Ils murmurèrent contre Moïse. Ensuite, ils se plaignirent de la nourriture. Moïse les avertit que ce n’était pas seulement contre Aaron et lui qu’ils murmuraient, mais contre Jéhovah lui-même (Exode 15:22-24 ; 16:2-12). Au mont Sinaï, Jéhovah donna au peuple la Loi dans un déploiement de manifestations surnaturelles. Pourtant, les Israélites désobéirent en adorant un veau d’or qu’ils avaient fabriqué, tout en prétendant donner “ une fête pour Jéhovah ”. — Exode 32:1-9.
      Quelle ligne de conduite Moïse devait-il adopter face à un peuple que Jéhovah lui-même qualifiait de peuple au cou raide ? Moïse adressa à Jéhovah cette requête : “ S’il te plaît, si j’ai trouvé faveur à tes yeux, fais-moi connaître tes voies, s’il te plaît, pour que je te connaisse, afin que je trouve faveur à tes yeux. ” (Exode 33:13). Aujourd’hui, les surveillants chrétiens qui prennent soin des Témoins de Jéhovah font paître un troupeau bien plus humble. Ce qui ne les empêche pas de faire cette même prière : “ Fais-moi connaître tes voies, ô Jéhovah ! Enseigne-moi tes sentiers. ” (Psaume 25:4). La connaissance des voies de Jéhovah leur permet de traiter des situations d’une manière conforme à sa Parole et à sa personnalité.
      Ce que Jéhovah attend de son peuple
      Ce que Jéhovah attendait de son peuple, il le révéla d’abord oralement au mont Sinaï. Moïse reçut plus tard deux tablettes de pierre sur lesquelles étaient écrits les Dix Commandements. Tandis qu’il descendait de la montagne, il vit les Israélites en train d’adorer le veau en métal fondu. Sous le coup de la colère, il brisa les tablettes en les jetant par terre. Jéhovah écrivit de nouveau les Dix Commandements, sur des tablettes que Moïse avait cette fois-ci taillées lui-même (Exode 32:19 ; 34:1). Ces commandements n’avaient pas changé par rapport à la première fois. Moïse devait en tenir compte dans ses manières d’agir. Dieu a aussi bien fait comprendre à Moïse quel genre de personne Il est, pour lui montrer comment devait se conduire son représentant. Les chrétiens ne sont pas sous la Loi mosaïque, mais dans ce que Jéhovah a dit à Moïse on trouve de nombreux principes fondamentaux qui n’ont pas changé et qui demeurent valables pour tous Ses adorateurs (Romains 6:14 ; 13:8-10). Examinons-en quelques-uns.
      Accorder à Jéhovah un attachement exclusif. La nation d’Israël était présente lorsque Jéhovah déclara qu’il exigeait un attachement exclusif (Exode 20:2-5). Pour en avoir eu de nombreuses preuves, les Israélites savaient que Jéhovah est le vrai Dieu (Deutéronome 4:33-35). Jéhovah établit clairement qu’il ne tolérerait aucune forme d’idolâtrie ou de spiritisme de la part de ses serviteurs. Peu importaient les pratiques des autres nations. L’attachement à Dieu n’était pas une simple formalité : tous devaient aimer Jéhovah de tout leur cœur, de toute leur âme et de toute leur force vitale (Deutéronome 6:5, 6). Cela devrait se remarquer dans leurs paroles, dans leur conduite, à vrai dire dans chaque aspect de leur vie (Lévitique 20:27 ; 24:15, 16 ; 26:1). Jésus Christ fit, lui aussi, clairement comprendre que Jéhovah exige un attachement exclusif. — Marc 12:28-30 ; Luc 4:8.
      Obéir strictement aux commandements de Jéhovah. Les Israélites avaient besoin qu’on leur rappelle qu’en concluant une alliance avec Jéhovah ils avaient fait le vœu de lui obéir strictement. Ils bénéficiaient d’une grande liberté individuelle, mais, dans les domaines où Jéhovah leur avait donné des commandements, ils étaient tenus d’y obéir pleinement. Ce faisant, ils montreraient leur amour pour Dieu et en retireraient des bienfaits, eux et leurs descendants, car toutes les exigences de Jéhovah étaient pour leur bien. — Exode 19:5-8 ; Deutéronome 5:27-33 ; 11:22, 
      Accorder la priorité aux choses spirituelles. Les Israélites ne devaient pas laisser la satisfaction de leurs besoins physiques détourner leur attention des activités spirituelles. Ils ne devaient pas axer leur vie uniquement sur des objectifs profanes. Jéhovah délimita une période hebdomadaire qu’il déclara sacrée, période destinée exclusivement aux activités liées au vrai culte (Exode 35:1-3 ; Nombres 15:32-36). Il fallait également prendre le temps d’assister, chaque année, à de saintes assemblées décrétées par Jéhovah (Lévitique 23:4-44). C’était là l’occasion de se remémorer les actes de puissance de Jéhovah, de se rappeler ses voies et de lui exprimer sa gratitude pour toute sa bonté. En exprimant son attachement à Jéhovah, le peuple augmenterait sa crainte et son amour pour lui, et cela l’aiderait à marcher dans ses voies (Deutéronome 10:12, 13). Les principes salutaires contenus dans ces instructions sont bénéfiques aux serviteurs de Jéhovah encore aujourd’hui. — Hébreux 10:24, 25.
      Une juste appréciation des qualités de Jéhovah
      Autre chose allait aider Moïse à traiter correctement le peuple : une bonne connaissance des qualités de Jéhovah. En Exode 34:5-7 on lit que Dieu passa devant la face de Moïse en proclamant : “ Jéhovah, Jéhovah, Dieu miséricordieux et compatissant, lent à la colère et abondant en bonté de cœur et en vérité, conservant la bonté de cœur à des milliers, pardonnant la faute et la transgression et le péché, mais en aucun cas il n’accordera l’exemption de punition, faisant venir la punition pour la faute des pères sur les fils et sur les petits-fils, sur la troisième génération et sur la quatrième génération. ” Prenez le temps de méditer sur ces paroles. Demandez-vous : ‘ Quel sens revêt chacune de ces qualités ? Comment Jéhovah les a-t-il manifestées ? Comment les surveillants chrétiens peuvent-ils les mettre en œuvre ? Comment chacune d’elles devrait-elle influencer notre manière d’être ? Arrêtons-nous simplement sur quelques exemples.
       
      Jéhovah est un “ Dieu miséricordieux et compatissant ”. Si vous possédez l’ouvrage de référence Étude perspicace des Écritures, pourquoi ne pas lire ce qui est dit sous l’entrée “ Miséricorde ” ? Où bien, faites des recherches à ce sujet à l’aide de la bibliothèque Jw.org. Servez-vous des outils de recherche pour trouver des versets qui traitent de la miséricorde. Vous constaterez que la miséricorde de Jéhovah non seulement permet parfois un allégement de la punition, mais s’accompagne d’une tendre compassion. Elle pousse Dieu à prendre des mesures pour apporter le soulagement à son peuple. La preuve en est que Dieu combla les besoins physiques et spirituels des Israélites durant leur périple vers la Terre promise (Deutéronome 1:30-33 ; 8:4). Jéhovah fit preuve de miséricorde à l’égard de ses serviteurs d’autrefois : il leur accorda son pardon lorsqu’ils commirent des fautes. À combien plus forte raison devrions-nous nous témoigner de la compassion aujourd’hui ! — Matthieu 9:13 ; 18:21-35.
      La miséricorde de Jéhovah est associée à la compassion. Si vous possédez un dictionnaire, lisez la définition de “ compatissant ”. Puis rapprochez-la de versets qui montrent que Jéhovah est compatissant. Dans la Bible, la compassion manifestée par Jéhovah est teintée d’un intérêt plein d’amour pour les défavorisés au sein de son peuple (Exode 22:26, 27). Quel que soit le pays, les étrangers, mais aussi d’autres personnes, se trouvent parfois désavantagés. En enseignant à ses serviteurs d’autrefois l’impartialité et la bonté à l’égard des étrangers, Jéhovah leur rappela expressément qu’eux aussi avaient été étrangers, en Égypte (Deutéronome 24:17-22). Qu’en est-il de nous, qui forme le peuple de Dieu aujourd’hui ? En faisant preuve de compassion nous contribuons à nous unir et à attirer d’autres personnes vers le culte de Jéhovah. — Actes 10:34, 35 ; Révélation 7:9, 10.
      Cependant, l’empathie à l’égard des gens d’autres nations ne devait pas passer avant l’amour pour Jéhovah et pour ses normes morales. Les Israélites avaient d’ailleurs reçu la consigne de ne pas adopter les coutumes des nations voisines, ni leurs traditions religieuses, ni leur conduite immorale (Exode 34:11-16 ; Deutéronome 7:1-4). Cela s’applique à nous aujourd’hui encore. Nous sommes censés être un peuple saint, comme notre Dieu, Jéhovah, est saint. — 1 Pierre 1:15, 16.
      Afin que Moïse ait une juste appréciation de Ses voies, Jéhovah lui a fait clairement comprendre que, s’il n’approuve pas le péché, il est néanmoins lent à la colère. Il laisse aux gens le temps d’apprendre ses exigences et de s’y conformer. Dès lors qu’il y a repentance, Jéhovah pardonne le péché, même s’il n’exempte pas de la punition pour les fautes graves. Il a prévenu Moïse que la conduite des Israélites aurait une incidence, bonne ou mauvaise, sur les générations à venir. S’ils comprennent bien les voies de Jéhovah, ses serviteurs seront moins tentés de lui attribuer la responsabilité de situations dans lesquelles ils se sont placés eux-mêmes, ni de conclure qu’il tarde à agir.
      Si vous souhaitez approfondir votre connaissance de Jéhovah et de ses voies, continuez à faire des recherches et à méditer lorsque vous lisez la Bible. Examinez attentivement les aspects fascinants de la personnalité de Jéhovah. Réfléchissez dans la prière à la façon de l’imiter et de mieux conformer votre vie à son dessein. Il vous sera ainsi plus facile d’éviter les pièges, d’entretenir de bonnes relations avec vos frères et sœurs qui suivent la Parole de Dieu comme guide d'action, de pensée, de sagesse et d’aider d’autres personnes à connaître et à aimer notre Dieu majestueux.
      Le peuple de la terre que Dieu uni ensemble à son amour véritable sont tous ceux qui chaque jour, lisent la Parole de Dieu et inclus dans leur coeur la sagesse essentielle venant de Jéhovah le Très Haut. Chaque serviteur de Dieu se purifie intérieurement d'une eau purifiante que garde chaque serviteur à l'affût des danger de ce monde et qu'il modèle ses pas vers la voie que Dieu lui à donner pour préserver l'espoir de la promesse de notre Dieu.

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    • Eric Ouellet

      Mettez votre confiance en Jéhovah
       
      Ouvrons nos bibles en Psaumes 37:3,4 regardons un conseil de notre Dieu Jéhovah:
      “Aie confiance en Jéhovah et fais le bien; (...) délecte-toi en Jéhovah.” — PSAUME 37:3, 4.
      AU PREMIER siècle de notre ère, les chefs religieux juifs prétendaient adorer Dieu, mais ils n’avaient pas confiance en lui: ils violaient ses commandements et persécutaient ses représentants (Matthieu 15:3; Jean 15:20). En conséquence, "leur maison fut abandonnée" par Jéhovah (Matthieu 23:38). En l’an 66, les armées romaines détruisirent Jérusalem et son temple, ce qui entraîna la mort d’un grand nombre de chefs religieux et de leurs disciples. Cependant, les personnes qui avaient confiance en Jéhovah furent protégées, car elles avaient suivi l’avertissement de ses porte-parole et elles étaient allées se réfugier dans un lieu sûr. — Matthieu 24:15-22; Luc 21:20-24.
      En ces derniers jours du système de choses,  mettons-nous notre confiance en Jéhovah, le vrai Dieu? Obéissons-nous à ses commandements et fesons-nous sa volonté, ou bien imiton-nous les chefs religieux du Ier siècle que Dieu abandonna? Quelle mode de vie avons-nous de besoin à notre époque, pour espérer bénéficier de la protection divine parce que nous avons confiance en Jéhovah et que nous agissons pour le bien’? — Psaume 37:3.
      Il y a plusieurs années, le pape Jean-Paul II a déclaré que “la survie de l’humanité tout entière était gravement menacée”. Il a mis l’accent sur “les résultats qu’obtiennent divers groupements religieux lorsqu’ils s’unissent pour tenter de conjurer cette menace”. C’est la volonté de Dieu, a-t-il dit, que les responsables religieux “travaillent ensemble” à “la paix et [à] la réconciliation”. Toutefois, si telle est sa volonté, pourquoi Dieu n’a-t-il pas béni les efforts qui sont accomplis en ce sens depuis des siècles? Parce que ces religions ne mettent pas véritablement leur confiance dans le moyen que Dieu a prévu pour instaurer la paix: son Royaume céleste (Matthieu 6:9, 10). Au lieu de cela, elles accordent leur soutien à la politique et aux guerres des nations. En conséquence, au cours des guerres, les croyants d’une nation ont tué les croyants d’une autre nation, et ils ont même tué certains de leurs coreligionnaires. Ainsi, des catholiques ont tué des catholiques, des protestants ont tué des protestants, et il en fut de même dans bien d’autres religions. Cependant, de véritables frères spirituels peuvent-ils s’entre-tuer, tout en prétendant servir Dieu?
      Jésus a établi le critère d'un mode vie qui apporte l'Amour et la protection de son Père,  lorsqu'ils a dit à ses disciples: “Je vous donne un commandement nouveau: que vous vous aimiez les uns les autres, et que, comme je vous ai aimés, vous aussi aimez les uns les autres. Par là tous saurons que vous êtes mes disciples: si vous avez de l’amour entre vous.” (Jean 13:34, 35). Par conséquent, ceux qui pratiquent le vrai mode de vie spirituel doivent s’aimer les uns les autres. Il s’agissait "d’un commandement nouveau”, car Jésus a déclaré: “Que, comme je vous ai aimés, vous aussi vous vous aimiez les uns les autres.” Jésus était disposé à se dessaisir de sa vie pour ses disciples; et ceux-ci doivent être prêts à faire de même: non pas ôter la vie à leurs compagnons dans la foi, mais sacrifier si nécessaire leur vie. C’est en ce sens que ce commandement était nouveau, car la Loi mosaïque n’allait pas si loin.
      Voici ce qu’on peut lire dans la Parole de Dieu: “Si quelqu’un déclare: ‘J’aime Dieu’, mais qu’il haïsse son frère, c’est un menteur. En effet, celui qui n’aime pas son frère, qu’il a vu, ne peut pas aimer Dieu, qu’il n’a pas vu. Et voici le commandement que nous tenons de lui: que celui qui aime Dieu aime aussi son frère.” (1 Jean 4:20, 21). Grâce à cet amour, ceux qui placent leur confiance en Jéhovah connaissent une véritable unité internationale. Paul déclare, en effet, en 1 Corinthiens 1:10: “Je vous exhorte, frères, (...) à parler tous en parfait accord, et à ce qu’il n’y ait pas de divisions parmi vous, mais que vous soyez étroitement unis dans le même esprit et dans la même pensée.” — Voir 1 Jean 3:10-12.
      Selon une encyclopédie (The World Book Encyclopedia), 55 millions de personnes ont été tuées lors de la Seconde Guerre mondiale, exceptés les Témoins de Jéhovah, des membres de toutes les grandes religions ont pris part à ce massacre. Aucune de ces vies humaines n’a été ôtée par un témoin de Jéhovah, car les témoins ont obéi au commandement de s’aimer les uns les autres et ils ont refusé de prendre part aux guerres des nations. Nombre d’entre eux ont été livrés au martyre en raison de leur neutralité, mais ils avaient pu dire, reprenant les paroles de l’apôtre Paul: ‘Nous sommes purs du sang de tous les hommes.’ — Actes 20:26.
      L’aumônier catholique appartenant à l’unité qui a lâché la bombe atomique sur le Japon en 1945 a récemment déclaré: “Depuis 17 siècles, l’Église présente la guerre sous un jour respectable. Elle fait croire aux gens qu’il s’agit là d’une honorable profession chrétienne. Ce n’est pas vrai. On nous a endoctrinés. (...) Jésus n’a jamais enseigné le dogme de la guerre juste. (...) Rien dans la vie ou l’enseignement du Christ ne laisse supposer que s’il est condamnable d’utiliser la bombe atomique pour réduire en cendres les humains, il n’est pas condamnable de le faire au moyen du napalm ou d’un lance-flammes.”
      Voici ce qu’on pouvait lire dans un quotidien londonien (Catholic Herald): "Les premiers chrétiens (...) respectaient scrupuleusement les paroles de Jésus et refusaient, même au prix de leur vie, de se laisser enrôler dans l’armée romaine. L’Histoire du monde aurait-elle été différente si l’Église était restée attachée à ce principe? (...) Si, aujourd’hui, les Églises toutes ensemble condamnaient la guerre (...), et qu’ainsi tous leurs membres se sentent tenus d’être, comme les premiers chrétiens, des objecteurs de conscience, la paix régnerait sur la terre. Toutefois, nous savons que cela n’arrivera."
      Les multiples religions du monde ont donc gravement transigé avec les lois de Dieu. Elles n’ont pas montré plus de confiance que les Pharisiens. “Publiquement ils déclarent connaître Dieu, mais ils le renient par leurs œuvres, car ce sont des gens détestables, désobéissants et non approuvés pour quelque œuvre bonne que ce soit.” (Tite 1:16). En conséquence, comme il avait abandonné le judaïsme hypocrite du Ier siècle, de même, à notre époque, Dieu a abandonné ces religions qui agissent contre les lois morales de Dieu. — Matthieu 15:9, 14.
      Ceux qui ont confiance en Jéhovah survivront
      Ne mettez pas votre confiance dans les solutions humaines aux problèmes du monde. Bien plutôt, confiez-vous en Celui qui peut tenir ses promesses (Josué 23:14). Voyez, par exemple, les événements qui se sont produits au VIIIe siècle avant notre ère, aux jours du roi Ézéchias de Juda. À son sujet, la Bible déclare: “Il faisait ce qui est droit aux yeux de Jéhovah.” (2 Rois 18:3). À l’époque d’Ézéchias, l’imposante Puissance mondiale assyrienne se dressa contre Jérusalem. Le porte-parole de Sennachérib, roi d’Assyrie, vint exiger la reddition de Jérusalem. Il déclara: “Voici ce qu’a dit le roi: ‘Qu’Ézéchias ne vous trompe pas, car il ne peut vous délivrer de ma main! Et qu’Ézéchias ne vous fasse pas vous confier en Jéhovah.’” — 2 Rois 18:29, 30.
      Que fit Ézéchias? La Bible nous dit: “Ézéchias se mit à prier devant Jéhovah et dit: ‘Ô Jéhovah, Dieu d’Israël, qui es assis sur les chérubins, toi seul tu es le vrai Dieu de tous les royaumes de la terre. Tu as fait, toi, les cieux et la terre. Incline ton oreille, ô Jéhovah, et entends. Ouvre tes yeux, ô Jéhovah, et vois, et entends les paroles de Sennachérib, qu’il a envoyées pour provoquer le Dieu vivant. (...) ô Jéhovah, notre Dieu, s’il te plaît, sauve-nous de sa main, pour que tous les royaumes de la terre sachent que toi, ô Jéhovah, tu es Dieu, toi seul.’” — 2 Rois 19:15-19.
      Jéhovah a entendu cette prière et a envoyé le prophète Ésaïe auprès d’Ézéchias pour lui dire: “Voici ce qu’a dit Jéhovah au sujet du roi d’Assyrie: ‘Il n’entrera pas dans cette ville, et il n’y lancera pas de flèche, et il ne se présentera pas devant elle avec un bouclier, et il n’élèvera pas contre elle un rempart de siège.’” Ézéchias devait-il rassembler une armée pour affronter l’Assyrie? Non, il devait placer sa confiance en Jéhovah; et c’est ce qu’il fit. Que se passa-t-il? “L’ange de Jéhovah sortit et abattit dans le camp des Assyriens cent quatre-vingt-cinq mille hommes.” En outre, Sennachérib fut châtié pour avoir défié Jéhovah et ses serviteurs; en effet, il fut plus tard assassiné par ses propres fils. Ainsi, conformément à la parole de Jéhovah, pas une flèche ne fut lancée contre Jérusalem. — 2 Rois 19:32-37.
      Alors que doivent faire les gens de toutes les nations pour survivre à la fin de l’actuel système de choses?
      Des événements semblables vont se produire à notre époque. Ceux qui se confient en Jéhovah survivront aux attaques et à la destruction du monde. “Ceux qui connaissent ton nom se confieront en toi, car tu ne quitteras assurément pas ceux qui te cherchent, ô Jéhovah!” (Psaume 9:10). Néanmoins, avant de détruire ce monde cruel, Jéhovah invite tous les humains sincères à s’approcher de lui pour trouver la sécurité. Ceux qui acceptent son invitation constituent une “grande foule” de personnes qui “viennent de la grande tribulation” et qui sont issues de toutes les nations. Ces personnes survivront à la fin du système de choses actuel parce qu’elles ont confiance en Jéhovah et le servent “jour et nuit”. — Révélation 7:9-15.
      La “grande foule” répond à l’appel qui retentit de plus en plus puissamment dans le monde entier, conformément à la prophétie consignée en Ésaïe 2:2, 3: “Et il adviendra sans faute, dans la période finale des jours, que la montagne de la maison de Jéhovah [son véritable culte] se trouvera solidement établie (...). Et assurément de nombreux peuples iront et diront: ‘Venez et montons à la montagne de Jéhovah (...) et il nous instruira de ses voies, et nous marcherons dans ses sentiers.’”  verset 4 dit: “Et ils devront forger leurs épées en socs de charrue et leurs lances en cisailles à émonder. Une nation ne lèvera pas l’épée contre une nation, et ils n’apprendront plus la guerre.”
      Un bel avenir
      Jéhovah offre le plus bel avenir qu’on puisse imaginer à ceux qui mettent leur confiance en lui. Lorsqu’il remplacera les vieilles structures de la société par de nouvelles, les humains qui vivront sur la terre ne connaîtront ni la crainte, ni la méfiance, ni la misère, ni l’injustice, ni le crime. Il n’y aura plus de guerres ou d’avortements pour priver les humains de la vie. Révélation 21:4 promet même que “la mort ne sera plus; ni deuil, ni cri, ni douleur ne seront plus”, cela pour toujours.
      Comme Jésus l’a promis, avec le temps la terre deviendra un paradis (Luc 23:43). Ceux qui mettent leur confiance en Jéhovah pourront vivre éternellement dans ce Paradis, car la mort disparaîtra. Les paroles de Michée 4:4 se réaliseront: “Ils seront assis chacun sous sa vigne et sous son figuier, et il n’y aura personne qui les fasse trembler.” Vous imaginez-vous vivre dans une société où vous pourriez avoir confiance en tout le monde? Pourquoi en sera-t-il ainsi? Parce que, comme le dit Ésaïe 54:13, “tous tes fils seront des personnes enseignées par Jéhovah, et la paix de tes fils sera abondante”.
      Toutefois, la confiance que les millions de Témoins de Jéhovah portent à Dieu leur procure dès aujourd’hui des bienfaits. Par exemple, les serviteurs de Jéhovah ont moins de risques de contracter le cancer du poumon parce qu’ils obéissent à ses lois et à ses principes relatifs au tabac. Vivant dans un milieu moralement pur, ils sont moins menacés par l’épidémie mondiale des maladies sexuellement transmissibles, telles que le SIDA. Parce qu’ils ne se droguent pas, ils sont à l’abri de maladies que de nombreux toxicomanes par voie intraveineuse ont contractées, maladies qui peuvent altérer les facultés mentales et entraîner la mort. Étant donné qu’ils n’acceptent pas de transfusions sanguines, les serviteurs de Jéhovah sont bien mieux protégés contre les maladies véhiculées par le sang. Chaque année, aux États-Unis, l’une de ces maladies, l’hépatite virale, tue ou lèse de façon permanente plus de dix mille personnes ayant reçu du sang.
      Même si certains de ceux qui se confient en Jéhovah meurent à cause de leur âge, de la maladie ou bien des suites d’un accident, Jéhovah viendra à leur secours. Il les ramènera à la vie par le moyen de la résurrection. C’est pourquoi l’apôtre Paul nous encourage à ‘avoir confiance, non pas en nous-mêmes, mais dans le Dieu qui relève les morts’. — 2 Corinthiens 1:9.
      Jéhovah soutiendra toujours ses serviteurs fidèles
      Souvenez-vous que “le monde entier gît au pouvoir du méchant”, Satan le Diable (1 Jean 5:19). Par conséquent, si vous vous confiez en Dieu, Satan et le monde qu’il domine s’opposeront à vous; ils essaieront de saper votre foi en vous ridiculisant ou en vous persécutant, comme ils l’ont fait à Jésus. Après qu’il eut été cloué sur le poteau de supplice, “les passants parlaient de lui en mal, hochant la tête et disant: ‘(...) Si tu es fils de Dieu, descends du poteau de supplice!’ Pareillement les prêtres en chef aussi se moquaient de lui, ainsi que les scribes et les anciens, et disaient: ‘Il en a sauvé d’autres; il ne peut pas se sauver lui-même! (...) Il a mis sa confiance en Dieu; qu’Il le délivre maintenant, s’Il veut de lui.’” — Matthieu 27:39-43.
      Trois jours après ces événements, Dieu a délivré Jésus en le ressuscitant d’entre les morts. Les moqueurs de la génération d’alors ont été quant à eux massacrés ou emmenés en esclavage par les armées romaines. Puisque le Christ, en sa qualité de Roi du Royaume céleste de Dieu, présidera à la résurrection, si ces individus sont ressuscités, il leur faudra se soumettre à celui-là même dont ils se seront moqués 2 000 ans auparavant! Oui, Jéhovah défend ses serviteurs, qui diront: “En Dieu j’ai mis ma confiance. Je n’aurai pas peur. Que peut me faire l’homme tiré du sol?” — Psaume 56:11.
      Voici ce que Jéhovah déclare à propos de ses serviteurs: “Béni l’homme valide qui met sa confiance en Jéhovah, et dont Jéhovah est devenu l’assurance! Et certes il deviendra comme un arbre planté près des eaux, qui envoie ses racines près du cours d’eau; et il ne verra pas quand la chaleur arrivera, mais son feuillage restera touffu. Et dans l’année de la sécheresse il ne s’inquiétera pas, et il ne cessera pas de produire du fruit.” Il dit également: “Maudit l’homme valide qui met sa confiance dans l’homme tiré du sol et qui fait de la chair son bras, et dont le cœur se détourne de Jéhovah! Et assurément il deviendra comme un arbre solitaire dans la plaine déserte et il ne verra pas quand le bien arrivera.” — Jérémie 17:5-8.
      En ces temps décisifs, donc, "ayons confiance en Jéhovah et faisons le bien; résidons sur la terre et agissons avec fidélité. De plus, délectons-nous en Jéhovah, et il nous donnera les demandes de notre cœur". (Psaume 37:3, 4.) Que soient exaucées les demandes que vous ferez, entre autres celle de goûter le don de la vie éternelle dans le monde nouveau et juste promis par Dieu, Celui en qui nous pouvons avoir confiance!

      · 0 replies
    • folens  »  Eric Ouellet

      Bonjour Eric, merci pour cet exposé sur Hanna, Bonne journée. Michel
      ENTRETIEN AVEC DIEU.pptx
      · 3 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      LA FOI D'HANNA ENVERS DIEU APPORTE SA RÉCOMPENSE
      UNE femme de foi adresse une prière à Jéhovah. Convaincue que c’est Dieu qui l’a relevée de la poussière, transformant son abattement en exultation, elle le loue à haute voix.
      Cette femme, c’est Hanna. Qu’est-ce qui explique son spectaculaire changement d’état d’âme ? Pourquoi est-elle à présent si joyeuse ? En quoi ce qu’elle a vécu peut-il nous être utile ? Intéressons-nous à son histoire.
      Une famille sous pression
      Hanna est l’une des deux femmes d’Elqana, un Lévite de la région d’Éphraïm (1 Samuel 1:1, 2a ; 1 Chroniques 6:33, 34). Bien que n’entrant pas dans le dessein originel de Dieu pour l’humanité, la polygamie est autorisée et réglementée sous la Loi mosaïque. Elle est néanmoins une source fréquente de discorde. La vie de cette famille, qui pourtant adore Jéhovah, en témoigne.
      Hanna est stérile, tandis que Peninna, l’autre femme d’Elqana, a plusieurs enfants. Peninna se comporte en rivale. — 1 Samuel 1:2b.
      Pour une Israélite, la stérilité est un déshonneur, et même un signe de la défaveur divine. Mais, dans le cas de Hanna, rien n’indique que son incapacité de procréer soit liée à la désapprobation de Dieu. Peninna ne la console pas pour autant ; elle se prévaut au contraire de son statut de mère pour l’humilier.
      Au sanctuaire de Jéhovah
      Malgré ces tensions, la famille entreprend le voyage annuel en direction du sanctuaire de Jéhovah, à Shilo, pour y offrir des sacrifices. L’aller-retour de quelque 60 kilomètres se fait vraisemblablement à pied. Cet événement doit être particulièrement pénible pour Hanna. En effet, Peninna et ses enfants reçoivent plusieurs portions du sacrifice de communion, alors que Hanna, elle, n’en reçoit qu’une seule. Peninna trouve là une opportunité supplémentaire de la blesser et de la mettre dans l’embarras ; il semble que Jéhovah ait “ fermé sa matrice ”, et elle ne manque pas de le lui rappeler. Tous les ans, c’est le même calvaire. Tous les ans, Hanna pleure et cesse de manger. Ces voyages qui normalement devraient la mettre en joie la plongent dans une profonde détresse. Hanna se rend néanmoins chaque année au sanctuaire de Jéhovah. — 1 Samuel 1:3-7.
      Voyez-vous en quoi Hanna est un bel exemple ? Comment réagissez-vous lorsque vous êtes déprimé ? Vous isolez-vous et évitez-vous les contacts avec vos compagnons chrétiens ? Ce n’est pas ce qu’a fait Hanna. Les rassemblements avec les adorateurs de Jéhovah étaient pour elle une habitude de vie. Même face à des circonstances éprouvantes, il devrait en être de même pour nous. — Psaume 26:12 ; 122:1 ; Proverbes 18:1 ; Hébreux 10:24, 25.
      Elqana tente de réconforter Hanna et il l’amène à exprimer ses sentiments profonds. “ Hanna, pourquoi pleures-tu et pourquoi ne manges-tu pas ? Pourquoi ton cœur a-t-il mal ? lui demande-t-il. Est-ce que je ne vaux pas mieux pour toi que dix fils ? ” (1 Samuel 1:8). Peut-être n’a-t-il pas conscience de la malveillance de Peninna. Et peut-être Hanna préfère-t-elle se taire plutôt que de se plaindre. Quoi qu’il en soit, cette femme spirituelle se tourne vers Jéhovah dans la prière pour retrouver la paix intérieure.
      Le vœu de Hanna
      Les sacrifices de communion étaient consommés dans le sanctuaire. Après avoir quitté la salle à manger, Hanna prie Dieu (1 Samuel 1:9, 10). “ Ô Jéhovah des armées, implore-t-elle, si tu ne manques pas de regarder l’affliction de ton esclave et si vraiment tu te souviens de moi, si tu n’oublies pas ton esclave et si vraiment tu donnes à ton esclave un descendant mâle, oui je le donnerai à Jéhovah pour tous les jours de sa vie, et le rasoir ne viendra pas sur sa tête. ” — 1 Samuel 1:11.
      La prière de Hanna est précise. Elle demande un fils, et elle fait le vœu que cet enfant sera toute sa vie un naziréen de Dieu (Nombres 6:1-5). Ce vœu nécessite l’approbation de son mari, et certaines actions ultérieures d’Elqana montrent qu’il approuve l’engagement pris par sa chère femme. — Nombres 30:6-8.
      À cause de la manière dont Hanna prie, le grand prêtre Éli la croit ivre. Il voit effectivement ses lèvres frémir, mais il ne l’entend pas parler. C’est qu’en fait Hanna prie dans son cœur, avec ferveur (1 Samuel 1:12-14). Imaginez ce qu’elle ressent lorsque le grand prêtre l’accuse d’être ivre ! Pourtant, elle lui répond respectueusement. Comprenant alors que Hanna était en train de prier “ dans l’abondance de [son] inquiétude et de [son] dépit ”, il lui dit : “ Que le Dieu d’Israël accorde ta requête. ” (1 Samuel 1:15-17). Sur ces paroles, Hanna s’en va ; elle mange et “ son visage ne par[aît] plus soucieux ”. — 1 Samuel 1:18.
      Que nous enseigne tout cela ? Lorsque nous prions Jéhovah à propos de nos inquiétudes, nous pouvons lui exprimer ce que nous ressentons et lui adresser des requêtes sincères. Si nous avons fait tout notre possible pour résoudre le problème, alors nous devrions laisser les choses entre ses mains. C’est ce qu’il y a de mieux à faire. — Proverbes 3:5, 6.
      Après une prière fervente, il est fréquent que des serviteurs de Jéhovah ressentent une sérénité comparable à celle que Hanna a éprouvée. Voici ce qu’a écrit l’apôtre Paul au sujet de la prière : “ Ne vous inquiétez de rien, mais en tout, par la prière et la supplication avec action de grâces, faites connaître vos requêtes à Dieu ; et la paix de Dieu, qui surpasse toute pensée, gardera vos cœurs et vos facultés mentales par le moyen de Christ Jésus. ” (Philippiens 4:6, 7). Après nous être déchargés de notre fardeau sur Jéhovah, nous devons le laisser s’en occuper. Puis, comme dans le cas de Hanna, il n’y a plus lieu de s’inquiéter. — Psaume 55:22.
      Un fils “ prêté ” à Jéhovah
      Dieu se tourne alors vers Hanna. Peu après, elle porte un enfant. Elle met au monde un garçon (1 Samuel 1:19, 20). C’est l’une des rares fois où la Bible fait état de la responsabilité de Dieu dans la naissance de l’un de ses serviteurs. L’enfant d’Elqana et de Hanna, Samuel, deviendra effectivement le prophète de Jéhovah, un prophète qui jouera un rôle important dans la mise en place de la monarchie d’Israël.
      Il est certain que Hanna parle de Jéhovah à Samuel dès sa petite enfance. Mais oublie-t-elle le vœu qu’elle a fait ? Absolument pas ! “ Dès que le garçon sera sevré, je devrai l’amener ; il devra paraître devant Jéhovah et habiter là pour des temps indéfinis ”, déclare-t-elle. Et en effet, une fois l’enfant sevré — peut-être à l’âge de trois ans ou un peu plus —, elle l’amène au sanctuaire, comme elle l’avait promis. — 1 Samuel 1:21-24 ; 2 Chroniques 31:16.
      Après avoir offert un sacrifice à Jéhovah, Hanna et son mari présentent Samuel à Éli. Hanna tient certainement la main de son petit garçon lorsqu’elle dit à Éli : “ Pardon, mon seigneur ! Par la vie de ton âme, mon seigneur, je suis la femme qui se tenait près de toi, en ce lieu, pour prier Jéhovah. C’est à propos de ce garçon que je priais, pour que Jéhovah m’accorde ma requête, ce que je lui demandais. Et moi, à mon tour, je l’ai prêté à Jéhovah. Oui, tous les jours qu’il sera, c’est quelqu’un de demandé pour Jéhovah. ” Ainsi commence, pour Samuel, une vie au service de Dieu. — 1 Samuel 1:25-28 ; 2:11.
      Le temps passe ; bien sûr Hanna n’oublie pas son fils. Les Écritures relatent : “ Sa mère avait coutume de lui faire un petit manteau sans manches, et elle le lui montait, d’année en année, quand elle montait avec son mari pour sacrifier le sacrifice annuel. ” (1 Samuel 2:19). Hanna prie sans aucun doute pour Samuel. Tous les ans, lorsqu’elle lui rend visite, elle l’encourage à coup sûr à demeurer fidèle dans son service pour Dieu.
      Pendant l’une de ces visites, Éli bénit les parents du garçon. Il déclare à Elqana : “ Que Jéhovah t’assigne une descendance de cette femme, à la place du prêt qui a été prêté à Jéhovah. ” C’est ainsi que le couple est récompensé par la naissance de trois autres fils et de deux filles. — 1 Samuel 2:20, 21.
      Quel formidable exemple pour les parents chrétiens ! Beaucoup de mères et de pères se montrent, eux aussi, disposés à prêter, figurément parlant, leurs enfants à Jéhovah ; en effet, ils les encouragent à entreprendre une forme de service à plein temps, même si cela implique que leur fils, ou leur fille, vive loin d’eux. De tels parents aimants méritent des louanges pour les sacrifices qu’ils font. Jéhovah les récompensera.
      Une prière qui déborde de joie
      Comme Hanna est heureuse, elle que la stérilité affectait tant autrefois ! Les Écritures ne contiennent que peu de prières faites par des femmes. Mais, en ce qui concerne Hanna, elles en rapportent deux. La première expose ses sentiments alors qu’elle est humiliée et affligée. La seconde exprime son exultation et son action de grâces ; elle commence par ces mots : “ Oui, mon cœur exulte en Jéhovah. ” Hanna se réjouit ensuite que ‘ même la stérile ait mis au monde ’. Et elle loue Jéhovah, celui “ qui élève [...], qui relève le petit de la poussière ”. Vraiment, il est celui qui “ de la fosse aux cendres [...] fait remonter le pauvre ”. — 1 Samuel 2:1-10.
      Cet épisode de la vie de Hanna, dont le récit a été inspiré par Dieu, montre que les imperfections, voire la malveillance, des autres peuvent nous blesser. Toutefois, nous ne devons pas permettre à ce genre d’épreuves de nous priver de notre joie de servir Dieu. Jéhovah est, par excellence, Celui qui entend la prière, qui répond aux appels à l’aide de ses fidèles et qui les délivre de l’affliction. Il leur accorde une paix profonde et de nombreuses autres bénédictions. — Psaume 22:23-26 ; 34:6-8 ; 65:2.

      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      1 Samuel 2 : 1-10
      Hannah pria Dieu en ces mots:
      Mon cœur se réjouit au s