What Happens When A Couple of the Opposite Sex Are Alone?

[Evacuated]

On 11/1/2018 at 3:01 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

25 MAN-YEARS of witnessing to bring one  new person into the "Truth", who will stay a lifetime

Oh, that means it takes the average publisher about 1825 years to help one person become a Jehovah's Witness.

[JOHN BUTLER]

On 10/31/2018 at 4:25 PM, Shiwiii said:

Ok, maybe my opinion isn't needed here but I am sure to give it anyway.

 

What happened to individual morals? If two people are adults, and I mean mature enough to understand the dangers of being alone together out of public view after a wonderful evening, etc. , why must other adults....err....grown men stick their noses in other people's business? Sure there can be some accountability held by informing a friend or family member of the evening plans or whatever, but to have an adult principal to oversee your dance party/movie night/dinner date is actually pathetic and demonstrates a lack of self control and a willingness to let others dictate YOUR life.  This whole idea that elders have some sort of authority over how you live your life is expressing that jws as a whole cannot make their own decisions and must sneak and hide like high school kids. If you have no personal boundaries, then you are going to do what you are going to do, its just like integrity, you have it or your don't. 

I just don't get it.

And this backs up what i've said before about congregants being frightened of the Elders. It's a sad life sometimes being a JW. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

2 minutes ago, Gone Away said:

Oh, that means it takes the average publisher about 1825 years to help one person become a Jehovah's Witness.

The 'average publisher' doesn't even get inside the person's house to give a study. Hence they brought in the idea of 'having a small study' on the doorstep. Many 'studies' are just old folk that want someone to talk to or someone to do their shopping for them. 

It sounds really impressive when someone has 3 or 4 studies, until you find out the details of what the 'study' actually consists of. 

[Melinda Mills]

True, some people have integrity and good parental training and example but the Bible still warns us about trusting in our own heart. Good parents teach their children etiquette.  This helps them to avoid what the scripture below is speaking about:

 I did not find the wording that I used to hear as a youth.  “Shun the very appearance of evil”. But this scripture appears to be saying the same thing.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:22-24 King James Version (KJV)

²² Abstain from all appearance of evil.

²³ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

²⁴ Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

 

(Proverbs 4:14, 15) Do not enter the path of the wicked, And do not walk in the way of evil men. 15 Shun it, do not take it; Turn away from it, and pass it by.

 

 Every law has principles to help you to apply the law.  That is where etiquette comes in.  From what I see being done today I wonder whether people still instill these principles in their children, so they can avoid poor decisions that will lead into sinful conduct.

 

 

 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

A "Man Year" is considered to be 50 weeks per year, times 40 hours per week, with a theoretical 2 week vacation every year.

That means One "Man-Year" equals 2,000 hours a year, so for 25 years that is 50,000 hours.

It takes about 50,000 hours, on the average, to get ONE new Jehovah's Witness Convert, who will stay in the "fold", his entire lifetime.

I cheated.

I got married, and had three children, and raised them to adulthood to be strong, independent, thinking people.

All three ( to the best of my knowledge ...) are very strong and active in theocratic activity and are progressing wonderfully.

They know the difference between what is Truth, and what is drivel, and ignore the drivel.  My oldest Son was recently made an Elder.

The fact of the matter is ... it is quicker, and less work to create new children, and raise them in the Truth, than it is to go from door to door, to bring people to Jehovah

That is ....  if you are looking for permanent, long term results.

Of course, that has been my experience .... results will vary with each "Publishers" personality and perspective on life, which will be reflected in type and style, and content of his Ministry.

And pure, dumb luck.

Of course, I will never know how they all turned out at the end of their lives, as I will be dead.

 

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

9 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

 I did not find the wording that I used to hear as a youth.  “Shun the very appearance of evil”. But this scripture appears to be saying the same thing.      1 Thessalonians 5:22-24

I think that hits the point exactly. The elders, especially during previous years, were directly taught at KM school (Elder Training) that the first time that there is suspicion of two persons of the opposite sex spending hours of time alone together, that there should be some kind of very strong counsel and even sanction due to the appearance alone, even if the elders were convinced that they were innocent of loose conduct. It was the same at Bethel, because there was a rule against being alone with a sister in your room unless the door was open, this meant that as soon as the door was closed, there should be strong counsel and even sanction. I knew that the rule was often broken, and I think that very few would turn someone else in, yet multiple infractions of the rule could mean dismissal.

If a couple of the opposite sex ever were seen to have contrived to be alone together, it was simply assumed that they went too far in their conduct with one another. The elder training gave examples of appropriate questions to ask, even if it was not overnight, and these questions assumed the worst, and would try to draw out a confession of "loose conduct." There would be a probation or loss of privileges of some kind, even if both vehemently denied any misconduct.

If the time spent together appeared contrived, and was overnight, especially if reported by a third party who saw a car parked overnight in front of the other person's house,  then the assumption was always that fornication had occurred and that any denial means the two are lying. The types of questions to be asked gave away the assumption of immorality and dishonesty. If they had previously been counseled, this could immediately escalate to disfellowshipping. 

Having been raised in the truth, and having gone to school in Missouri, I didn't realize until I went to college that many of our assumptions were similar to many of the fundamentalists around us. It wasn't just JWs but most old-time religionists, assuming that leaving two persons of the opposite sex alone together was always an instant recipe for fornication and/or adultery. If you listened to radio preachers you'd hear the same assumptions. Witnesses were also assuming that there was nothing else that young people could possibly be interested in.

It wasn't until after Bethel when I went to college that I realized that many persons were immoral, but also that many had morals likely superior to ours. And most surprisingly that many persons of the opposite sex actually lived together as roommates and still didn't ever worry about the topic of sex/fornication ever coming up. Now, I have seen statistics that show that teenage pregnancies were always much higher in the "Bible Belt." Perhaps part of the problem was in the assumption that young people have nothing better to do.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Many, many people ... totally innocent people ... have been shot to death, or spent years in prison, because they APPEARED to be guilty of some societal or cultural infraction.

I used to tell my children when they were small, and would go through a store, picking up things to look at them ... it is not only important to BE innocent ... it is important to APPEAR to be innocent.

STUFF HAPPENS.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

..... when a police officer pulls you over and asks for your driver's license ... ask his permission before opening the glove compartment, or reaching into a purse or pocket to get it to get it, and never EVER say "Here ... hold my beer!".

[Melinda Mills]

Appearances again! Policeman holding beer and arresting a suspect of DIU. Somebody takes his picture - no end of trouble.

"Policeman arrests an innocent man while under the influence." - headline.

Goes both ways.  (Rook would write it like this.)

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I think that hits the point exactly. The elders, especially during previous years, were directly taught at KM school (Elder Training) that the first time that there is suspicion of two persons of the opposite sex spending hours of time alone together, that there should be some kind of very strong counsel and even sanction due to the appearance alone, even if the elders were convinced that they were innocent of loose conduct. It was the same at Bethel, because there was a rule against being alone with a sister in your room unless the door was open, this meant that as soon as the door was closed, there should be strong counsel and even sanction. I knew that the rule was often broken, and I think that very few would turn someone else in, yet multiple infractions of the rule could mean dismissal.

If a couple of the opposite sex ever were seen to have contrived to be alone together, it was simply assumed that they went too far in their conduct with one another. The elder training gave examples of appropriate questions to ask, even if it was not overnight, and these questions assumed the worst, and would try to draw out a confession of "loose conduct." There would be a probation or loss of privileges of some kind, even if both vehemently denied any misconduct.

If the time spent together appeared contrived, and was overnight, especially if reported by a third party who saw a car parked overnight in front of the other person's house,  then the assumption was always that fornication had occurred and that any denial means the two are lying. The types of questions to be asked gave away the assumption of immorality and dishonesty. If they had previously been counseled, this could immediately escalate to disfellowshipping. 

Having been raised in the truth, and having gone to school in Missouri, I didn't realize until I went to college that many of our assumptions were similar to many of the fundamentalists around us. It wasn't just JWs but most old-time religionists, assuming that leaving two persons of the opposite sex alone together was always an instant recipe for fornication and/or adultery. If you listened to radio preachers you'd hear the same assumptions. Witnesses were also assuming that there was nothing else that young people could possibly be interested in.

It wasn't until after Bethel when I went to college that I realized that many persons were immoral, but also that many had morals likely superior to ours. And most surprisingly that many persons of the opposite sex actually lived together as roommates and still didn't ever worry about the topic of sex/fornication ever coming up. Now, I have seen statistics that show that teenage pregnancies were always much higher in the "Bible Belt." Perhaps part of the problem was in the assumption that young people have nothing better to do.

And all the while the Org / GB / Elders were hiding Pedophiles and allowing Child Abuse and using the Two Witness rule as an excuse. And would you tell me the GB are not hypocrites ? 

[JOHN BUTLER]

12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

A "Man Year" is considered to be 50 weeks per year, times 40 hours per week, with a theoretical 2 week vacation every year.

That means One "Man-Year" equals 2,000 hours a year, so for 25 years that is 50,000 hours.

It takes about 50,000 hours, on the average, to get ONE new Jehovah's Witness Convert, who will stay in the "fold", his entire lifetime.

I cheated.

I got married, and had three children, and raised them to adulthood to be strong, independent, thinking people.

All three ( to the best of my knowledge ...) are very strong and active in theocratic activity and are progressing wonderfully.

They know the difference between what is Truth, and what is drivel, and ignore the drivel.  My oldest Son was recently made an Elder.

The fact of the matter is ... it is quicker, and less work to create new children, and raise them in the Truth, than it is to go from door to door, to bring people to Jehovah

That is ....  if you are looking for permanent, long term results.

Of course, that has been my experience .... results will vary with each "Publishers" personality and perspective on life, which will be reflected in type and style, and content of his Ministry.

And pure, dumb luck.

Of course, I will never know how they all turned out at the end of their lives, as I will be dead.

 

 

 

 

Raised on lies and the ideas and orders of the GB. Wow a wonderful upbringing. 

Stop calling it the Truth, because it isn't. That is just how you and yours have been brainwashed. 

You must surely know how many times the GB and their writers have changed 'opinions' on things and changed the meaning of scriptures.  The 'superior authorities' scripture for instance,  the 'this generation' scripture' is another. The timing of Armageddon, the length of the 'creative days'. 

And you call it Truth ? It was all lies. And you raised your children on it.

Do they ever talk about the Child Abuse in the Org, Earthwide ? Do you all sit around the table and talk about how much children have suffered because of the rules form the GB ? 

And now your son is an Elder, a GB puppet and Org police officer.  He will have decisions to make. Will he do what is right or will he obey the GB ? 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

John Butler:

I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that in many cases you are absolutely correct .... however, as an unrepentant Barbarian, I know full well what my life would have been like if not for Jehovah's Witnesses, worts, harelips, fungus toenails and all .... it would have been despicable, and brief. 

I would have killed a LOT of innocent people ... well ... relatively innocent.

There is a lot that goes on in soldiering that is terrible, truly awful, and reprehensible .... but that is the nature of collections of  people with profound responsibilities, and limited abilities.

You chose to go AWOL .

Winston Churchill during WWI was a deeply flawed man, as were all those fighting the Nazis ... but the alternative was a fool like Neville Chamberlain, and Nazi rule.

The deeply flawed British and American Armies saved your ass during WWII, from Nazi Tyranny, and the reason you are not a slave, or a Nazi, and German being your first language today is because a deeply flawed Organization came to your rescue, even before you were born.

For me and my children, the same thing with Jehovah's Witnesses.

We know the difference, and stayed to fight.