The Trinity and Bible Proofs that Jesus Christ is God

[Shiwiii]

Your wall of text has discouraged me into responding, partly because you introduce more information that does not directly involve the topic and I feel this is to distract any reader into actually remembering what the topic of discussion is about. 

there are so many things in your response that need addressing, and to break it down into realistic portions would create so many threads on this board that no one else would be able to post. I think you do this on purpose, meaning write more that necessary, to somehow try and overwhelm whomever it is you are speaking with so they just leave and then you can say "well they couldn't answer" and assume you have it all correct. it is a typical tactic of jws in general, instead of staying on track, add additional material to bury the original question. Anyway.......

I am not going to go through your whole post and pull out everything to respond to, but I'll pick a couple. 

 

On 11/8/2018 at 11:37 PM, Space Merchant said:

Because it is true that Trinitarians believe all 3, in this case, all 3 Gods make up 1 God, thus making them Triune, at the same time they do not believe such because of the whole aspect of distinct persons, therefore when it comes to the verse in question Jesus was not of the Triune God, especially if someone were to accept the claim that Jesus raised himself.

right here you have demonstrated you do not comprehend what the trinity is, nor what trinitarians believe. There is not 3 Gods. I would explain it to you, but I believe that you would play dumb or hold fast to your idea that is already formed. Either way, I suggest you research what the trinity is, as trinitarians believe it. You have already mentioned that you have spoken to James White or someone close to him, that is a great place to start as James DOES know. 

 

On 11/8/2018 at 11:37 PM, Space Merchant said:

You will have to be more specific on what in Isaiah you want to discuss about.

 

On 11/8/2018 at 11:37 PM, Space Merchant said:

That being said, I will be happy to discus about Isaiah,

Isaiah 44, who is recorded as speaking in verses 21-28?  Is it not YHWH? 

[Evacuated]

57 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

you do not comprehend what the trinity is, nor what trinitarians believe

Does anyone?

 "the Triune reality of God is ultimately beyond human reasoning. As St. Augustine remarked, “If you understood Him, it would not be God” 

Carl E. Olson. Editor of Catholic World Report and Ignatius Insight.

[Shiwiii]

2 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Does anyone?

 "the Triune reality of God is ultimately beyond human reasoning. As St. Augustine remarked, “If you understood Him, it would not be God” 

Carl E. Olson. Editor of Catholic World Report and Ignatius Insight.

if one does not, then they should not profess to know. 

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

Your wall of text has discouraged me into responding, partly because you introduce more information that does not directly involve the topic and I feel this is to distract any reader into actually remembering what the topic of discussion is about. 

I tend to response to each response, so it tends to be this way in discussions.

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

right here you have demonstrated you do not comprehend what the trinity is, nor what trinitarians believe. There is not 3 Gods. I would explain it to you, but I believe that you would play dumb or hold fast to your idea that is already formed. Either way, I suggest you research what the trinity is, as trinitarians believe it. You have already mentioned that you have spoken to James White or someone close to him, that is a great place to start as James DOES know. 

Actually I have and I am pulling the information from Triniarian sources of which I been holding on to for several years now. The Trinity Doctrine's belief. There is no question that the doctrine holds to believing in the one and only True God, but they divide God into 3 distinct person, as you put it The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, which are clearly, in this doctrine 3 distinct persons all making up the Triune God, but at the same time, the belief also professes that The Father, Son and or Holy Spirit do not make up the Triune God. I do not go about my own ideas granted that the information came from those who profess the doctrine itself.

I have researched what the Trinity is and know that it when it was brought up and who was involved, when both the word and terminology was coined and so forth granted early Christians were primarily Subornationist, something of which I stated several times before, one of which when I had to deal with another Trinitarian who was moving information in his favor. 

Indeed, James White knows his doctrine, he is also known for brushing over the very thing the Christ professed as a child and a list of other things as seen in his debates. James White is known for sending his own to bully those who knows the truth, he is known to have his own followers mock up conspiracy in Hyde, the dwelling place of Jay Smith and his crew, some of which, are among the extreme side.

Other than that, I talked with James White followers (not James White himself, I will probably get that chance soon), who also follow KJV-Onlyist, FLDS, Jay Smith, David Wood, etc. Wood's focus was primarily about manuscript and codex evidence.

So what I can ask you, regarding James White, you think it was right in his eyes to brush over the foremost command even saying things of it that it isn't in which people adhere to, which resulted in even other Trintiarians and even Non-Trinitarians to make a response?

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

Isaiah 44, who is recorded as speaking in verses 21-28?  Is it not YHWH? 

verses 21-28 is regarding The Lord Redeems Israel.

I already know where this is going because I spoke about this before on occasion. You and I am sure some Trinitarians actually claim and or assume the words, "his Redeemer, Yahweh of hosts" means Yahweh's Redeemer is Yahweh of Hosts." Yahweh's Redeemer is then identified as by Trinitarians to be Jesus by an act of their own will and then they declare that Jesus is therefore being identified as "Yahweh of Hosts." The truth of the matter is - the Scriptural facts show that "his Redeemer" is a reference to Israel's Redeemer and Trinitarians are disregarding the contextual facts (with even cross-references that is regarding all in this passage), so we can discuss on that if that is the case.

The Lord Redeems Israel

outlined

Yah's/Jah's, Israel’s Repurchaser (21-23)

Restoration done through Cyrus (24-28)

[21] Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me. [22] I have blotted out your transgressions like a cloud and your sins like mist; return to me, for I have redeemed you. [23] Sing, O heavens, for the Lord has done it; shout, O depths of the earth; break forth into singing, O mountains, O forest, and every tree in it! For the Lord has redeemed Jacob, and will be glorified in Israel. [24] Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, [25] who frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish, [26] who confirms the word of his servant and fulfills the counsel of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be inhabited,’ and of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built, and I will raise up their ruins’; [27] who says to the deep, ‘Be dry; I will dry up your rivers’; [28] who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’”

 

That being said, I am still baffled on the whole something dead raising themselves of which is borderline undeath doctrine, to which that still needs explanation.

[Space Merchant]

30 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Does anyone?

 "the Triune reality of God is ultimately beyond human reasoning. As St. Augustine remarked, “If you understood Him, it would not be God” 

Carl E. Olson. Editor of Catholic World Report and Ignatius Insight.

The doctrine of the Trinity is as followed:

• [1] There is one and only one God
• [2] God externally exists as 3 distinct and or co-equal persons.
• [3] The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God
• [4] The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Holy Spirit thus making up the Triune God.
• [5] The Father is not the Triune God, the Son is not the Triune God and the Holy Spirit is not the Triune God.

According to their diagram, the Trinity states God exist in 3 distinct divine persons who are identical in essence, and co-eternal and co-equal in power.

One thing to note they are not too far off from their Modalist and Oneness counterparts.