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JOHN BUTLER

All scripture is inspired of God. A small prophecy ?

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4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

SM talks so much about Strongs. Should we need to dig so deeply to find the truth ?

Yes indeed, I do speak of Strong's. It is not unknown to anyone of what is implied when the Strong's are brought up, mainly when it comes to a correction of occurrences, the normal ones or the special ones. For instance, as per our last discussion regarding nakedness or an ambassador, the Strong's tell you which verses/passages uses the word, and what the meaning of that word used there entails, moreover it triumphs any understand of man in the process. Furthermore, it can be used to I.D. a Biblical Violation in Hebrew/Greek easily.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

What should i have ? I don't expect divine guidance, or should I ? 

You have the Word of God in your hands. Read it daily. Research it. Observe it. Recite it. And then some. Learn of the teachings of the apostolic church Jesus built and then maybe you can learn something.

If a child can do it, in fact, if Jesus as a child can obverse and read the Shema Yisrael, the Old Testament, so can you.

In doing so you become knowledgeable, can memorized and recite a verse and or passage, the very context of it orally from memory even like remembering a part from a movie.

It is not burdensome unless you make it. This goes hand in hand with following the commandments and what is being asked of you, as a Christian under the New Covenant.

It does not hurt to learn a little Greek and or Hebrew, if I can recommend someone, I recommend Hebrew Professor Jeff A. Benner, with his information give it a few months, you will know quite a bit of Hebrew.

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11 hours ago, Outta Here said:

What part would the gift of "discerning the spirits" (as some translate 1Cor.12:10) have had in Paul's evaluating the spiritual credentials of religious writings available at the time?

Yes. Excellent point. I believe it has everything to do with it, and I believe that Paul was well aware of the responsibility and understood very uniquely from his own situation why such a spiritual gift was so important. After all, he was not one who had heard Jesus speak personally during Jesus' earthly life, and Paul at times, had to rebuke the very apostles who had such influence on others. The idea, I think, is even carried in the verse in the context of the idea of making sure of the more important things:

  • (Philippians 1:9-10) 9 And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; 10 that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others up to the day of Christ;

Of course, Paul also made good and purposeful use of extra-Scriptural references which also were "useful for setting things straight and disciplining in righteousness," but in order for future congregations to be built especially upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Paul knew that, not just the Hebrew Scriptures, but also the authority of the apostles would become both the doctrinal and practical foundation of the congregations. He had to set things straight even among the other apostles, and the apostles were able to give Paul counsel, too. (Gal 2:10)

Fortunately, we don't need now to question anything that comes through the authority of the apostles. But we still need to follow the same principle of discernment that Paul used when questioning and accepting doctrine.

  • (Hebrews 5:12-14) 12 For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. 13 For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

Today, of course, we also need to be reliant upon good scholarship to avoid acceptance of certain statements that do not have "foundational" apostolic authority and yet have crept into our Bible texts. It's a modern form of the same spiritual gift of accurate knowledge (and full discernment.) 1 John 5:7.8 is the best example, The New World Translation committee has accurately removed the non-authoritative parts of 1 John 5:7,8, but there are dozens of full verses removed in lesser-known examples found in some of the older texts (not usually the oldest texts) and found not to be as reliable, based on "textual criticism." Some of these omissions seem innocuous, but they are still without sufficient apostolic authority to keep in the context with the authoritative verses.

By calling our Christian Greek Scriptures "apostolic", we acknowledge that some were not written directly by apostles, because most of the apostles were evidently unlettered (illiterate) and required second-hand "secretaries" to record their first-hand experiences and memories. Writings by non-apostles were accepted on the basis that they were understood to have come from those with a direct relationship to the apostles, and who lived at the time of the apostles. The significance given to this idea comes through the statement from Paul that the number of eyewitnesses to Jesus resurrection was known.

  • (Luke 1:1, 2) 1 Whereas many have undertaken to compile a statement of the facts that are given full credence among us, 2 just as those who from [the] beginning became eyewitnesses and attendants of the message delivered these to us,
  • (2 Peter 1:16) 16 No, it was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we acquainted YOU with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but it was by having become eyewitnesses of his magnificence.

    (Acts 1:21-23) . . .It is therefore necessary that of the men who accompanied us during all the time in which the Lord Jesus carried on his activities among us, 22 starting with his baptism by John until the day he was taken up from us, one of these men should become a witness with us of his resurrection.” 23 So they proposed two, Joseph called Barʹsab·bas, who was also called Justus, and Mat·thiʹas.

    (1 Corinthians 15:5-7) . . .and that he appeared to Ceʹphas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still with us, though some have fallen asleep in death. 7 After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

     

 

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9 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 So where is one supposed to start ? If you are saying that the Bible might not be the book it should be. 

The Bible is the perfect book it should be. But we should discern the spirit of the Christian message and not be distracted with so many lower-priority details that we miss the forest for the trees. As brought up in the post to @Outta Here we need to be alert to what we are being taught. If we understand the "spirit" of the message and the "priorities" we will not be quickly shaken from our reason in believing a message has apostolic authority when it really was just some speculation over less important details:

  • (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2) . . .we request of YOU 2 not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us. . .

I think most of us would agree that the idea of priority of the objective has been perfectly met in the Bible, and is perfectly encapsulated in 1 Timothy:

  • (1 Timothy 1:5-7) . . .Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of law, but they do not understand either the things they are saying or the things they insist on so strongly.

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5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

most of the apostles were evidently unlettered (illiterate) and required second-hand "secretaries" to record their first-hand experiences and memories.

The only portion of your excellent post that I would take issue with due to the possibility of an ambiguity.

The reference is to Acts 4:13 where this description of the apostles Peter and John appears: "unlettered and ordinary". The use of the word agrammatoi could be understood as "illiterate" in respect of it's literal meaning  of being "without letters". But this would only be done  by someone figuratively so. To take such a line of reasoning, in the face of scholarship on the application of this word to the apostles, would be as reasonable  as applying a similar "rule" to the use of the word idiotai, (rendered ordinary), which appears in the same verse. Then we could render Luke's description of the religionists' view of Peter and John as being "illiterate idiots".

Now, this might fit the religious leaders'general perception of those outside their social circle as being "accursed", eparatos,  (am haarets elsewhere). But it has long been held that the phrase has reference to those who are "unlettered"  in the sense of not having had formal religious training in a Rabbinic school of the day. The sense of the other word rendered as "ordinary" should be understood as one not having had the level of formal professional training necessary to become a State official of the day. So in more modern mode, their words, their speech and demeanor did not reflect them to be public school (UK version) educated, university graduates with degrees in theology and social policy.  The description could apply to most of us today, but, as then,  in no way would it be a relevant assessment either of our literacy, or IQ.

Interestingly, many "highly placed, public school (UK version) educated, university graduates with degrees in theology and social policy" also require "second-hand "secretaries" to record their first-hand experiences and memories", and indeed, much else of what they produce.  ?

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4 hours ago, Outta Here said:

The reference is to Acts 4:13 where this description of the apostles Peter and John appears: "unlettered and ordinary". The use of the word agrammatoi could be understood as "illiterate" in respect of it's literal meaning  of being "without letters".

True. Also, it was an accusation from outsiders and therefore not necessarily an accurate reflection. But there is also the fact that it is not rebutted in Acts, and it fits what Jesus said about revealing truths not to the wise and intellectual. 

  • (Matthew 11:25) . . .At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children."

Paul recognized the same point, and even spurned his own educational training as worthless.

We can also combine this with the fact that of the original 12 apostles, only two of them, Matthew and John, were ever credited with writing a gospel account. But even this is based on later traditions. Nowhere, in any of the gospels do we even see the names of the writers, whether Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. There was an early tradition that Matthew had written a gospel and that it was originally in Hebrew (Aramaic), but this gospel could not have been the one we now call Matthew. There was also a well-known gospel called the "Gospel of Peter" that probably originated in the second century, but might have even been written in the first century while the apostles were still alive. In spite of the name, it was not taken seriously after the second century, and the "Gospel of Mark" was seen as Peter's gospel through a "second" hand.

4 hours ago, Outta Here said:

But it has long been held that the phrase has reference to those who are "unlettered"  in the sense of not having had formal religious training in a Rabbinic school of the day.

Yes. The Watchtower has referenced this view.

*** w09 7/1 p. 4 1. Ask the Author for Help ***

  • Jesus’ apostles were considered “unlettered and ordinary” because they had not attended rabbinic schools for religious training. (Acts 4:13) Nevertheless, Jesus assured them that understanding God’s Word was within their reach.

Although the very next year, the Watchtower moved back to the idea of illiteracy in language education.

*** w10 10/1 p. 30 Speaking in Tongues—Is It From God? ***

  • Spreading the good news to that extent would require the use of many tongues other than Hebrew.  However, many of those early disciples were “unlettered and ordinary.” (Acts 4:13) How, then, would they be able to preach in distant lands where languages were spoken that they may never have heard of, let alone learned to speak? Holy spirit empowered some of those zealous preachers with the miraculous ability to preach fluently in languages they had never before learned to speak.

I have read the view that many Judeans of this time and even many more Galileans and Samaritans never learned Greek, but knew and spoke only their form of Aramaic (sometimes called "Hebrew" as in the above quote from the 2010 Watchtower). Being unlettered (illiterate) in the sense of not knowing how to read and write in your language even if you spoke it fluently, is considered an insult to one's intelligence in most societies today. But illiteracy was very common in the first century, and no one expected anyone to be able to read and write except a certain level of soldier required to send reports, certain types of merchants, and the rabbis who would need to learn to read for the synagogue services. Not even the average tax collector needed to know how to read and write, even though we now tend to think of some kind of accountant/scribe.

Because we anachronistically consider it to be such an insult, we think we are coming to the defense of the apostles by saying that this was only referring to a special level of illiteracy and a technical meaning of "ordinary."  We forget that "rabbinical schools for religious training" were precisely where persons learned to read and write. This is why even the persons we would today call civil lawyers came out of this same class of education (Pharisees, scribes). Josephus, for example, rose in military rank in Galilee due to his rabbinic training, i.e., literacy. After his capture by the Romans, he maneuvered quickly into Roman acceptance due in large part to literacy.  

I'm glad you pointed out one of the meanings of idiotai, as it would be easy for English readers to only see the insulting cognate when the original term did not have the meaning "idiot."

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23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

How many JW's ever think of the fact that Paul wrote that information before the other scriptures were written and long before a Bible was composed ? 

Further to all the earlier postings and your original point. 

Yes, I can see what you mean. In the context of Paul's words having been written prior to John's writings, and to the consensus on what constituted the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures, then, yes, Paul's statement might be viewed as a mini-prophecy as you state.

However, it is entirely unlikely that Paul meant specifically that his words should be understood that way. Rather, the purpose of his writing  was to instruct Timothy in what should form the basis for his own faith and that which he would teach to others, namely "the holy writings", or "All Scripture", as opposed to the ear-tickling teachings he refers to at 2 Tim.4:3.

He may well have had in mind at this time the coming conclusions to be made regarding his own writings, as well as the other completed letters and gospels, especially in view of the spiritual gifts he undoubtedly enjoyed. Also, as the book of Revelation confirms, further written communication is to be expected from Jehovah, so it seems unlikely that Paul felt the "All" was done in his day. In fact more likely that what was to be termed "All" would be expanded.

There is prudence in terming the holy writings as "All Scripture". If he had said the "Jewish Scriptures", or some other time-rooted descriptor, then there would have been room for dispute over what constituted those writings, perhaps falling into the hands of the Judaizers, or some other apostatisers and their time-wasting definition debates. This is, however a hindsight observation of practicality of expression, not unlike the embedded wisdom we can now see in the injunction to "cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit", which circumvents the need for listing every possible combination of the same.  ?

 

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13 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

There is prudence in terming the holy writings as "All Scripture". If he had said the "Jewish Scriptures", or some other time-rooted descriptor, then there would have been room for dispute over what constituted those writings, perhaps falling into the hands of the Judaizers

Good points, especially from our current vantage point in time. On the latter point in the above quote, Paul could be said to have dealt with that issue, by the admission that Scripture was "Jewish Scripture" in the following verse:

  • (Romans 3:1, 2) . . .What, then, is the advantage of the Jew, or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 A great deal in every way. First of all, that they were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God.

Yet the immediate context, plus the entire book as further context, provides the explanation against misuse of this statement by Judaizers:

  • (Romans 2:29) . . .But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. . . .

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

But illiteracy was very common in the first century,

Somebody blogged a few points on this which I found quite thought-provoking. "

 "...the Bible expected the common people to be able to read and write. For example, when Moses led Israel out of Egypt, they were told to write the laws upon their door posts (Deuteronomy 6:6-9; 11:18-20). Isaiah predicted that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the land to such a degree that a child could write the number of the trees left standing (Isaiah 10:19). This Scripture would make no sense at all unless children were customarily educated by either their parents (implying family literacy) or through an organized school presumably conducted through the Levitical ministry.

Concerning the 1st century, one of the favorite sayings of Jesus in rebuttal to his accusers was: “Have you not read…” This not only implied literacy to his opponents, but also to himself and to his apostles whom he taught, for why would he use the phrase against his accusers, if they could turn around and cast his own words in his teeth to point out the illiteracy of his followers?

Jesus’ parable of the unjust steward (Luke 16:6-7) also implies literacy in the normal course of business in the Jewish society. This is also borne out in some archeological finds dating to the 12th century BC where Israelite inscriptions are found on pottery and artifacts showing literacy was not exclusive to the elite. Moreover, just before the Jewish revolt, the high priest Joshua ben Gamala (cir. 64 AD) declared that teachers would be appointed in every town of every province throughout Palestine. Their purpose was to provide an education for every male of the age of six or seven and upward. One teacher would serve a community of up to 25 students. A teacher’s assistant would be added for communities having up to 50 students and for communities having more than 50 students two teachers would be provided.

All of our modern opinions, scholarly or otherwise, concerning the low literacy rate of the Jews of the 1st century AD, are based upon subjective guesswork. There is not an ounce of hard evidence to support their conclusions."

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Excellent research. We have long used the "inculcate them in your sons" phrase to teach that literacy was high among the Jewish population. This would have been the ideal if everyone followed the Law. But there are as many pieces of opposing "evidence." And I agree that there is no hard evidence on either side.

2 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Concerning the 1st century, one of the favorite sayings of Jesus in rebuttal to his accusers was: “Have you not read…” This not only implied literacy to his opponents

Expressions like, "have you not read?" are actually found very rarely in the Bible. And if you note the context, it's always with reference to Pharisees and Sadducees which fits the previous points made.  To more common people, such as those who heard Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, the expression, even when quoting written scripture, is: "You heard that it was said. . ." It's found six times in the Sermon on the Mount alone. There are no examples of Jesus mentioning "reading" except when chief priests, scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees were the focus of attention. (Even Jesus' question about "Whose inscription was on the coin?", by the way, was directed at Pharisees.) So the same point made by the blogger could be taken as evidence against the literacy of the common man.

2 hours ago, Outta Here said:

why would he use the phrase against his accusers, if they could turn around and cast his own words in his teeth to point out the illiteracy of his followers?

But apparently they did!

Certain kinds of merchants, including house stewards who were the ones required to trade with merchants for foodstuffs and household supplies, might require a knowledge of money and writing. That is acknowledged. (Luke 16:6-7) And Joshua ben Gamala's potential reforms, as a chief priest married to a wealthy woman from the priestly Boethos family, were precisely because education --even of 16 and 17 year olds-- had been an exclusive privilege of the rich. The very fact that he hoped for a change in this regard could be used as more evidence of common illiteracy.

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@JW Insider "Although the very next year, the Watchtower moved back to the idea of illiteracy in language education."

Though still using the same scripture ?

You're not suggesting that the GB twisted scripture one way then the other are you ? Just for their own purpose 

'Moved back to' seems to mean that they first used a scripture one way, then another way, then back to the first way.  Wow how reliable is that folks ?

 

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      Why JW's mostly, generally think that "inspiration" is action reserved only to JHVH and Jesus or devil and demons?
      "Inspiration" is state/condition of some person soul, mind and emotions.  The biblical / religious state of inspiration comes mainly out of the will of the people. But do you think how this is something that can be  achieved/put on/force upon only by the actions of superhuman powers?
      JW's are very occupied with their religion in own life and have specific relationship to this word and have specific (organizational) understanding of the concept about this special word - inspired. They think, I think that they do think :)), about this word only in religious sense and consider how it is about or only about some sort of divinity or divine holiness (or devil evil) in background.
      Because they attach great importance to this word in only one direction, they forget that there is also a very powerful influence of another force. It's the spirit of man. JW's must recall themselves more often that people are created on the image of God. And that all people in themselves have a strong spirit (of divine source by birth and genetically inherited). This human spirit is powerful and can inspire other people (earthly spirits) around them. You, as individual can be inspired by people around you or by people about whom you hear about, you are watching, you read about. 
      Also it is interesting how some other things can inspire people. For example; nature, music, poetry, stories, events, animals, imagination.
      Please, join to this topic and give, express your thoughts. Let your spirit free and let's inspire others :)))
       
    • By Jesus.defender
      In 1889, the WT said " we present PROOFS that the setting up of the kingdom of God has already begun...and that 'the battle of the great day of God almighty' (Revelation16:14),which will end in AD1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced.".
      The watchtower presented "proofs".
      These "proofs" were wrong, so what credibility do they have to "proclaim" anything?
       
    • By jpl
      Culte matinal de Février 2019
      "Avant le désastre il y a l'orgueil"
      Fev 2019 Avant desastre il y a orgueil.pdf
    • By Bible Speaks
      Would You Walk on this Iceberg?
      Amazing Photo! Amazing God! 
      “Jehovah answered Job out of the windstorm:  2 “Who is this who is obscuring my counsel
      And speaking without knowledge?  3 Brace yourself, please, like a man;
      I will question you, and you inform me.  4 Where were you when I founded the earth?
      Tell me, if you think you understand.  5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
      Or who stretched a measuring line across it?  6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,
      Or who laid its cornerstone,  7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
      And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?
      22 Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,
      Or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,
      23 Which I have reserved for the time of distress,
      For the day of battle and war?"
      (Job 38:1-7, 22-23). 
      JW.Org
      #Repost @ladzinski
      ・・・
      Being stuck out at sea among the icebergs and sea ice can make you pretty restless and uneasy. Last July on an expedition in south east greenland we spent 6 days marooned in an ice flow at the mercy of the elements. @mikelibecki and @ethan_pringle seen here getting in a little exercise, jumping ship to climb this #iceberg. My favorite thing about this photograph is that this was Ethan’s first time ever wearing crampons and ice climbing, a very unlikely place for a lesson! @andy_mann @connor_seybert @3stringsproductions @mountainhardwear @dell @djigloba

    • By jpl
      Discours Assemblée Annuelle 2018 
      Etes-vous Prêt ? (réalisé à partir des sous-titre en français)
      Discours Assemblée Générale 2018 Etes vous pret.pdf
    • By jpl
      Transcription du culte matinal de Février 2019 :"Imitons Jésus"
      Fev 2019 Imitons Jesus.pdf
    • By jpl
      Voici une compilation des suggestions de conversation pour 2018 et 2019 (Janvier à Mai 2019)
       
      Suggestions de conversations_5_2019.pdf
      Suggestions de conversations_12_2018.pdf
    • By jpl
      Voici deux transcriptions de vidéos de décembre 2019
      Survivons au grand jour de Dieu Janv 2018.pdf
      Janv 2019 C_est ici Le Chemin.pdf
    • By jpl
      Voici la vidéo "Dieu accepte-t-il toutes les religions ?" en 10 langues.
      Il faut utiliser VLC pour la visualiser et utiliser l'option Audio pour sélectionner  la langue (Anglais, Arabe ……). Par défaut c'est le français qui est actif.
      Bonne utilisation dans le service pour Jéhovah. 
      Toutes Religions Bonnes 3,55 min (10).mkv
    • By jpl
      Bonjour à tous, qui connait cette application Floating Bible (pour android) ?
      Personnellement je trouve l'accès à la bible très rapide on y trouve aussi les cantiques en mode texte ainsi que le texte du jour. Il s'agit d'une application autonome.
      A l'écoute de vos avis….
      JPL
    • By indagator
      Yesterday the final (4th) installment of the 2018 volume of Journal of Biblical Literature was published. Among the articles in it is a new manuscript of the Gospel of John, dating to the third to fourth centuries. The manuscript is scrappy, as these things often are, a few verses from the end of chapter 1 and the beginning of chapter 2. On the back is a fragment of an unknown early Christian text. An rare instance of the word "God" in Greek, not in nomen sacrum form, but fully written out is one of the interesting findings in it.
      For those interested in reading the article, here it is.
       
       
      Willoughby John-JBL 2018.4.pdf
    • By Bible Speaks
      How did you learn the Truth? 
      I was raised in the Truth. ?

    • Guest
      By Guest
      C'est moi le Potier dit Jéhovah Dieu 
      Tu es mon vase d'argile ! C'est moi qui t'ai modelé, façonné, 
      Une merveille au creux de ma main. 
      Tu n’es pas encore achevé, tu es en train de prendre la "forme" de mon Fils. 
      Voici que tu te désoles et que tu désespères 
      Parce que tu as pris quelques fêlures au contact des autres. 
      Tu t'es heurté, tu as été ébréché 
      Tu as même pu tomber par terre, te briser et tomber en mille morceaux 
      Fêlures, éraflures, lézardes, brisures, cassures, ratures... 
      N'oublie pas, c'est ta condition de vase. 
      Si je t'avais rangé dans un placard à vaisselle 
      Tu ne connaîtrais pas ces heurts de la vie 
      Mais tu ne servirais à rien ni à personne, tu serais un vase inutile ! 
      Moi, dit Dieu, j'aime les vieux vases, un peu usés, un peu ébréchés. 
      Ils ont toute une histoire, et toi, tu voudrais être lisse comme un nouveau-né ? 
      Je te connais, ô toi que j'ai façonné, pétri avec tant d'amour 
      Je ne voudrais pas que tu te désoles de tes ratées 
      Tu es fait de boue et de lumière, tu es fait pour servir ! 
      A ne regarder que tes failles, tes faiblesses et tes chutes 
      Tu te centres encore trop sur toi-même 
      Et tu restes prisonnier de tes failles ! 
      C'est moi le Potier et je m'y connais dans l'art de reprendre un vase. Laisse-toi faire ! 
      Avec mes doigts d’artiste, j'arrive toujours à rendre plus beau ce qui n'était que fêlure, brisure, cassure. 
      Je suis l’Esprit Créateur, ne l'oublie pas. Je crée ! Je mets la vie ! Je donne le souffle ! 
      Je suis le Potier ! C'est moi qui moule, qui pétris, qui donne la "forme" 
      Toi, mon vase d'argile, Viens te glisser au creux de mes mains paternelles et maternelles 
      Laisse-toi pétrir entre mes doigts d'artiste. 
      Abandonne-toi longuement à mon travail de potier. 
      Expose-moi tes fêlures, tes brisures, tes cassures ! J'aime faire du neuf, j'aime te regarder 
      Voici que je te réchauffe, ô toi mon argile 
      A force de te pétrir, je te communique ma chaleur, ma sueur, 
      mon souffle, mon intimité, ma chaude tendresse. 
      C'est moi le Potier, viens et n'aie plus peur. 
      Chaque fois que tu retombes dans ces fautes que tu ne voudrais pas commettre 
      Je te dis : Le pardon est là ! 
      Viens et continuons ensemble 
      J’aime te regarder, voir les efforts que tu fais et tout le mal que tu te donnes. 
      J'en éprouve grande joie et tu réjouis mon cœur 
      Je vois combien tu te transformes. 
      A l'abri de tes regards Je te modèle 
      A l'image du Fils bien-Aimé 
      Tout ce que je te demande 
      C'est de venir toujours et à nouveau après chaque chute 
      Entre mes mains pour me donner la joie de te remodeler. 
      Allons, n'aie pas peur       C'est moi le Potier 
    • By Jack Ryan
      (I wonder if Keanu Reeves actually said this or if some meme maker just posted this over his photo?)
    • By Jesus.defender
      Did Jesus really say He was God?
      That’s exactly how Jesus’ original audience seemed to take it when He said, “I and the Father are one.” In fact, the Jews were ready to kill Him right there! Why? “Because you,” they said, “a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).
      On another occasion, He used the personal name of Israel’s God–the name revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14)–to refer to Himself. And He even used the Torah for context, so no one would misunderstand Him: “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). This would be about wild as telling a Muslim, “I am your God, Allah.” Don’t try that in Saudi Arabia! It’s no wonder the Jews tried to stone Him to death. That was the exact penalty for blasphemy under the Jewish legal system. It was pretty clear to everyone there  that He was saying, “I am Israel’s God.”

      Why Jesus is God? The Apostle Thomas called Jesus God.John 20:27-29: 2. The Apostle Peter called Jesus God.2 Peter 1:1: 3.The Apostle John called Jesus God.John 1:1-3, 4.God the Father called Jesus God.Hebrews 1:8: 5. God the Father called Jesus God. 6.Isaiah the Prophet said the Messiah would be God.Isaiah 9:67. The Jews who crucified Jesus understood Him to be saying that He was equal with God.John 5:18: 8.Jesus called Himself "I AM", the Old Testament name for God (Exodus 3:14).John 8:58-59. 9.Jesus calls Himself "the Alpha and Omega," the title of Almighty God.Revelation 22:12-13. 10. Like God (Gen. 1:1) Jesus created.Colossians 1:16-1711. Like God, Jesus forgives sin.Mark 2:5-7, 10-11:12. Like God, Jesus gives eternal life.John 10:27-28: 13. Like God, Jesus received, receives and will receive worship.Matthew 14:32-33. 14. Jesus said that only God was good; and Jesus was good. John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."Jesus was as good as they come. He was "sinless," "holy," "righteous," "innocent," "undefiled," and "separate from sinners." (Hebrews 7:26) That's pretty good! 15. Like God, Jesus can be present in more than one place at the same time.Matthew 18:20: 16. One of Jesus' titles is "God with us."Matthew 1:23. 17. Jesus' blood is called God's blood.Acts 20:28: 18. Jesus has the same nature as God.Hebrews 1:3a: 19. Jesus spoke as God.Jesus did not speak as one of God's prophets: "thus says the Lord," but as God: "I say to you."Matthew 5:27-29. 20. Like God (Psalm 136:3), Jesus is called the Lord of Lords and King of kings.Revelation 17:14. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ( WHEN WAS GOD PIERCED? ). And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel (means God Among Us). 
      John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
      John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
      John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Crossreference with Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
      John 10:33 "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
      John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
      Collossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
      Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "
      Matthew 4:10 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Crossreference with Matthew 2:2, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 28:9.
      Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Crossreference with Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he." and Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
      2Peter. Jehovah The Father appears.
      John 1. Jehovah the son.
      John 8:58 Jesus identifies Himself as Jehovah "I Am"
      Acts 5. Jehovah the Holy Spirit identified.
    • By Bible Speaks
      “Send out your light and your truth. May these themselves lead me.” Psalm 43:3.  JEHOVAH is very considerate in the way he makes his purposes known to his servants. Instead of revealing the truth all at once in one blinding flash of light, he enlightens us progressively. Our trek along life’s pathway might be compared to a walk that a hiker takes down a long trail. He starts out early in the morning and sees little. As the sun begins to rise slowly over the horizon, the hiker is able to distinguish a few features of his surroundings. The rest he sees in hazy outline. But as the sun continues its ascent, he can see farther and farther into the distance. So it is with the spiritual light that God provides. He allows us to discern a few things at a time. God’s Son, Jesus Christ, provided spiritual enlightenment in a similar manner. Let us learn how Jehovah enlightened his people in ancient times and how he does so today.

    • By Srecko Sostar
      Confusing and controversial ideas and perceptions we can find about God, life and death, feelings, acts/deeds of human and gods.
       
      HOW GOD FEELS ABOUT LIFE
      3. What did Jehovah do when Cain killed Abel?
      3 The Bible teaches us that our life and the lives of other people are precious to Jehovah. For example, when Cain—Adam and Eve’s son—was very angry with his younger brother Abel, Jehovah warned Cain that he needed to control his anger. But Cain didn’t listen, and he became so angry that he “assaulted his brother Abel and killed him.” (Genesis 4:3-8) Jehovah punished Cain for murdering Abel. (Genesis 4:9-11) So anger and hatred are dangerous because they can make us become violent or cruel. A person who is like that cannot have everlasting life. (Read1 John 3:15.) To please Jehovah, we must learn to love all people.—1 John 3:11, 12. - https://www.jw.org/ase/publications/books/bible-study/respect-gods-gift-of-life-blood/
       
      On other side we can find this in Bible, directly as words inspired to be written by Almighty God.  
       
       
        7   Remember, O Jehovah,What the Eʹdom·ites said on the day Jerusalem fell:“Tear it down! Tear it down to its foundations!”+ 
      8  O daughter of Babylon, who is soon to be devastated,+Happy will be the one who rewards you With the treatment you inflicted on us.+
      9  Happy will be the one who seizes your children And dashes them against the rocks.+ -  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/psalms/137/
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      The JW Org / GB say that Armageddon is very close. They also say that Jehovah is speeding up the work in these 'last days'.
      Now, it seems I'm not one for knowing truth from lies, so people keep telling me, but this webpage/site seemed interesting to me.
       It seems to show more of a decrease in JW's, but more importantly it seems to show more of a lack of faith, or lack of action / 'works' of JW's. It also shows a large number of people leaving the JW Org. 
      If this video or page has been used before then I apologise for any repeat. But I thought it was of interest. 
      https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php
    • By admin
      He is according to Pope Francis...
      i know a lot of members on here are religious and I saw this in the bookstore today 


    • By JOHN BUTLER
      This topic is aimed toward asking ADMIN these questions. I do not know who Admin are. Some folks here seem to have made friends with Admin where as I just use the forum. 
      Why was Jehovah's Witnesses Private Club set up ?
      Should it be 999% about Jehovah's Witnesses and their Organisation, which would include the GB ?
      Am I therefore wrong when i only talk about Jehovah's Witnesses and have no interest in other religions ?
      There are those on here that regularly 'bite my ears off' because i only talk about the JW's, but I thought that was the intention of this forum.
      Admin please clarify these matters for me, please ...... 
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      I have always wondered if the Bible is for 'all of us' to understand fully, or if it's only for a chosen few to fully understand.
      I don't mean is it just for one 'religion' to understand, I mean is it just for say 'an anointed group of people to understand'? 
      Jesus spoke in illustrations to the people, but the disciples asked Jesus what the illustrations meant. Then Jesus would explain the illustration to them fully. 
      Jesus told his disciples that 'to them the sacred secrets would be revealed' but that the crowd would not get the meaning of such things. 
      It was also that after Jesus was resurrected he opened the eyes of his disciples / apostles so that they began to fully understand all things.
      For my part I would never expect to fully understand God's word the Bible. A lot of it is straight forward of course, and easy to comprehend.
      But I think a lot of it is 'in deep code' so to speak, only fully understood by those that Jehovah chooses.. 
      It still seems strange to me, but it would be a separate topic, that God allows it to be so difficult for people to find any truth amongst the huge amount of lies in 'religion'. 
      However, in my opinion, there has to be a 'group of humans' 'anointed people' that do have some direct contact with God, through Jesus Christ. 
      We no longer have 'miracles' being done in Christ's name, so it is difficult to know exactly who the 'chosen ones' are. 
      If there was a 'body of people' that could prove that they had God's approval and God's holy spirit, that would make life much easier. 
      However when those that say they are chosen either make mistakes or tell lies about the meaning of scripture, and then their predictions fail, then they seem to prove themselves false or without God's guidance.
      So we go back to square one. Is there really a 'body of people' being truly guided and upbuilt by God's holy spirit at this time ? 
      Is the Bible and it's prophecies being fully opened up to such ones ?
       
    • By Srecko Sostar
      "clear, pure water of truth" ?? ...and famous question that can be hear from platform and in witnessing "Would you drink water from a glass with just one drop of poison in it?"
       
      Water That Leads to Life
      ..."Jehovah’s Witnesses invite you to taste the pure waters of truth." .....
      [Picture on page 9]
      "You can find the ‘waters of truth’ at your local Kingdom Hall"
       https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102009003
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    • Just as the WT knows how to work the global market by investing their money in hedge funds, they know how to manipulate a developing mind with persuasion techniques.  I perceive the downplay of higher education as a safeguard from losing members.  While the organization warns these young ones of Satan’s worldly traps when pursuing higher education, in reality it appears to me that it’s all about keeping JWs captive to the organization’s “empty philosophy”.  Col 2:8  Knowing how the young mind develops sheds light on the org's use of persistent warnings not to pursue higher education.  “Developmental Tasks and Attributes of Late Adolescence/Young Adulthood (Ages 18-24 years) http://www.amchp.org/programsandtopics/AdolescentHealth/projects/Documents/SAHRC AYADevelopment LateAdolescentYoungAdulthood.pdf This is a time of life when very little is normative. It is a period of frequent change and exploration that covers many aspects of their life: home, family, work, school, resources, and role. Develop and apply abstract thinking skills Adolescents experience significant changes in their capacity to think. In changing from concrete to abstract thought they are increasingly able to understand and grapple with abstract ideas, think about possibilities, think ahead, think about thinking, and “put themselves in another person’s shoes.” In general, this changes their ability to think about themselves, others and the world around them. This is a gradual process that spans adolescence and young adulthood. For example, early in the process youth are limited in their ability to hold more than one point of view – understanding something from one perspective but not another. ·        Capacity for abstract thought becomes established; can think abstractly and hypothetically; can discern the underlying principles and apply them to new situations; and can think about the future, considering many possibilities and logical outcomes of possible events. ·       Able to hold and manipulate clusters of abstract ideas and create systems for organizing abstract thoughts. ·       Greater ability to consider different points of view at the same time can result in increased empathy and concern for others, and new interest in societal issues for many. It also allows youth to better value the diversity of people (and their perspectives) and appreciate that there may be many right answers to a problem. Adopt A Personal Value System Adolescents develop a more complex understanding of moral behavior and underlying principles of justice. They question and assess beliefs from childhood and restructure these beliefs into a personal ideology (e.g. more personally meaningful values, religious views, and belief systems to guide decisions and behavior). ·        Decisions and values are less influenced by peers. ·       Able to see multiple viewpoints, value the diversity of people and perspectives and appreciate that there can be many right answers to a problem. ·        Identify values and viewpoints that work for oneself while respecting viewpoints/values of others I would imagine there is a high risk of young JWs entering a college or university after high school, with the same age group, and going through the same mental development stages ...leaving the Watchtower altogether.  
    • John 17:14-16 The comments in the study Bible on John 17:15 say: "Jehovah...could even separate his people physically from the rest of the world and place them in a a safe and peaceful environment. However, regarding his disciples, Jesus prayed to his heavenly Father: "I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one." Jehovah has chosen not to take us "out of the world." Rather, it is his will that we live among the general population of this world in order to proclaim his message of hope and comfort to others. (Rom. 10:13-15) But, as Jesus implied in his prayer, by living in this world, we are exposed to "the wicked one." Disobedient mankind and wicked spirit forces cause much pain and anguish, and Christians are not immune to distress." 1 Peter 5:9 So while we recognize we have to live in a world under Satan's control, it doesn't mean we should go out of our way to expose ourselves to potentially dangerous influences and bad association. There are of course necessary things we must do to survive and provide for our families - such as employment, which as you correctly pointed out, can mean rubbing shoulders with worldly people and attitudes whatever level of education we choose. But even on that, we are selective so as to minimize our exposure to potentially harmful influences. It may include being selective as to what type of work we are willing to accept, or whom we work with/for. Many caring parents know they can't completely eliminate bad influences at school for instance (since kids have to have some type of schooling and it is beneficial), but they may choose to be selective as to whom they allow their kids to spend their extra time with. So living in the world, we recognize there are certain things we must do whether we like it or not. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't exercise caution and be selective as to what we choose to involve ourselves in. I could rationalize that I need a job to support myself and my family - a legitimate and necessary need,  but would I choose to work for the mafia to do so? No, I would be selective and cautious.  I agree with you. I often have the same problem on both phone and tablet. Fortunately I've recently discovered that we can edit and make corrections. I wish I had known that earlier before "auto-correct" ran roughshod over my posts.  As for my level of education, I provide as little information as possible to identify me. As a "whistleblower" on some things, there would be an opportunity for "blowback" from men in authority who have something to hide. I don't even post what country I'm from. So when I have written that at times there are men in authority who act as wickedly as people in the world and hide behind their authority, I know exactly what I'm talking about. That's why I don't buy into the "Jesus is in full control of everything..." stuff, because I know some of the stuff that goes on is about as unChristlike as you can get. He doesn't cause/control it just because he allows it for a time. I also question some of the decisions men (not Jesus) have made when I am in possession of all the facts - especially when removal or disfellowshipping has as it's objective to silence whistleblowers who expose their corruption. I have never been DF'd, but I know if they thought I was spilling the beens on them, that's exactly what would happen. So I don't mention any names either that would tip them off. Just letting people know that you can still maintain your faith and relationship with God despite the evil that (some) men do - and get away with for now.  Sorry if this rant is off topic.
    • Perhaps it can be as you said. And perhaps this can be true with many other similar "stories".   What I see as important in this "story", is fine moral message and inspirational, motivating injection that in this materialistic and superficial everyday life offers a spiritual upgrade.... said with different order of words. 
    • Some do. Like the Rainbow Mountains, and some of the Caucasus (Svaneti) look more like rocky Alps. I'd love to see those mountains, and I planned to visit Georgia within two or three years if possible. I've never been to Georgia, the closest so far has been to northern Turkey (Ankara, Zonguldak, Samsun). If Jehovah did not intervene, and nature was left to itself, moving the tectonic plates would have caused thousands of violent aftershocks and tsunamis for quite some time after the floodwaters settled. Even on water, during the Flood, the Ark would have to be given divine protection. Settling on a high mountain might protect from tsunamis but not the quakes. I'd like to look up some info on these. Where should I start?
    • The story has also been told that it was a "black boy" who offered him the newspaper for free: https://mylife-chapter.blogspot.com/2017/08/who-is-richer-than-bill-gates.html When my wife was a school principal, teachers were always putting up posters about, for example, the "Ten Things Bill Gates Says about School" or "What Bill Gates Said Were the Most Important Things in Life" etc. He may have told a story like this, but usually people create such stories so that their own moral lesson comes across with more authority.  
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