ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE

[JOHN BUTLER]

OK, I've sort of shot myself in the foot by saying I'm now going to take this forum as a joke and have a laugh. In most ways i will continue to do so BUT.

This evening I was given some information that 1.maybe I shouldn't have been given. 2. Maybe i wish i hadn't been given. 

Some of you may say I'm telling lies. Some of you may say I'm just after attention. Some may say I'm just trying to put down the JW Org.

However i have to think on something i say a lot. DUTY OF CARE. Care of everyone, in or out of that JW Org. 

I have been given this information :-

Somewhere between 18 months to 2 years ago, a young man that is a member of Honiton Congregation (my ex congregation) committed a sexual offence against a young girl that would have been around 7 or 8 years old at that time.. 

The young man was visiting the home of this child and he went up to the girl's bedroom and asked the girl to have sex with him. I do not think that sexual intercourse took place but from the information that I've been given, he laid her on the bed and got on top of her and 'humped' her as if he were having sexual intercourse with her.  

The incident was reported to the Elders and the police were not informed. I have no idea what action the Elders took but the congregation were not informed.

The young man ( who's name I have ) would have been in his very early twenties at the time, but his mental age is lower. He is a bit slow in learning things and possibly has mental disorders. That is not meant as an insult, but i do know this young man personally and he does act a bit strange sometimes and frightens people.  

The young man's father was a single dad of three children ( i knew this man quite well ), but he invited a foreign lady (a sister in the JW Org) over to the UK, and they married. The marriage did not go well as the woman wanted to 'be the boss'. They split up and she went back to her country of origin. But then she came back to have a 'second try' at the marriage.  I do not know the marriage situation at this time. However the whole issue would have been totally upsetting for the three children, especially for this young man that found it difficult to cope with some situations. 

The person that gave me this information, in my opinion, is completely trustworthy, and once again in my opinion, would not have any reason for making up a 'story'. As I was given the young man's name, and i know the young man and his father, it all seems quite genuine to me.

Now i come back to the duty of care.  For, in my opinion, it is the duty of anyone that has any information concerning child abuse to report it to the police. 

This could be just a one off incident, but it could be the start of a young man becoming a pedophile. I honestly don't know where my duty is here. 

The young girl that was the victim of this assault may need help getting over the situation. The information was also that the father of the victim does not want 'any trouble'. Hence he did not want the police involved. That helped the Elders to keep it secret, well almost. 

Now this young man may commit sexual assault again, within the JW congregation or outside of it.  And that young lady will be in fear of him and yet still have to attend that Kingdom hall where she will see him every week. 

So should i report what i have been told to the police or not ? Of course I would have to tell the police it is only third hand information.

BUT, if the police could get hold of the 'records' / paperwork from the Kingdom hall regarding the incident, then it would be proved as true. 

I do not expect that the Elders would willingly hand over paperwork, so I've no idea how it would work out in the end. But it's my actions that I'm concerned about here , my responsabilites. What should i do ?  

 

 

[Evacuated]

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q514.htm

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Here is my advice ... from a Barbarian .... and it is worth every pence you paid for it.

What you think you know is hearsay. 

It may be completely true.

It may be completely false.

Or any variation on that theme.

This is why the scriptures COMMAND one to do what is to my personal knowledge, NEVER, EVER done.

Otherwise you will CERTAINLY ruin someone's life, who may be completely innocent of all suspicions... AND RUMORS.

The same SERIOUSNESS as murder ... when you carelessly destroy anothers' reputation.

The person who knows about this thing from personal knowledge, either by being an eyewitness, or hearing a confession FROM THE ACCUSED,  has the responsibility to report it to the police ... BUT FIRST ... he must go to the accused and educate him on proper behavior ... FACE TO FACE .... AND CALL HIM TO ACCOUNT FOR ANY MISSTEP,  whether through impulse, diminished capacity, or even deliberate evil. 

This does not involve "snitching to the Elders", and starting a Witch Hunt.

THEN ... and only AFTER taking that step .... if the Brother does not change his ways,  and all that entails, including apologies and reparations, and repentance acceptable to the actual accuser who was actually harmed .... bring out the chain saw.

BECAUSE, for you, this is ONLY hearsay, you have no responsibility whatsoever to report this to the police, but you do have a responsibility to report it to the Congregation Elders ... if, and ONLY AFTER you have had a thorough discussion with all parties involved ... but ONLY as a "heads-up", so that they do not get sucker punched.

ACTUALLY involved.

Otherwise MYOB.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

MYOB = Mind Your Own Business

When you see someone on the street, THIS should be the greeting ... "MYOB" ... instead of "Hello!".

[Space Merchant]

@JOHN BUTLER Just be sure you are certain. Plus this should be discussion with those of your circle rather than here, but it matters not now. Follow that link OH professed, for in doing so it is one of the steps in regards to Child abuse and Neglect Services.

Fora second, I thought it was a C to C case.

That being said, be careful also because misinformation begets consequence and can ruin someone's life in the process, as JTR said, if such turns out to be false, in this sense the outcome will be on your hands and those involved.

I do not have the link right now, but it should help you recognize the signs and from there execute the best course of action.

2 being close friendships and gift giving.

[Jack Ryan]

Yes @JOHN BUTLER... please don't talk about it publicly here on the Internet. Only talk to local people who can keep this quiet so that God's Universal Name is not "besmirched".... Oh how I hate the Internet for allowing open communication!

------------------

On a serious note... I like @James Thomas Rook Jr.'s suggestion above.......

Talking to the police and looking for "justice" I would reserve for something taken to the extreme....

I can't tell you how many crimes just get overlooked on a daily basis by prosecutors exercising thier "prosecutorial discretion"....

Rapes and murders top the list of what I think the Police should spend thier time on.

Reports of crazy teenagers misbehaving and acting creepily don't measure up .....  I'm glad this case ended up with nothing more than a scare.

I knew one cop years ago that would beat the pulp out of teenage hooligans and that seemed to solve the problem.

Maybe once you actually determine that he DID do it... you might consider making him wish he didn't?

Ooooh.. vigilantiism....

That is a whole other subject now isn't it?

But if you REALLY care .... don't think telling the Police about this will solve it... UNLESS they know of a string of other crimes he has comitted as well. Maybe then a prosecutor MIGHT act.

How many murders were there in Chicago last weekend?

[Space Merchant]

@Jack Ryan The Justice System is corrupt and a double standard. There is dirt on the corners that is in use to hurt the eyes of those of whom the law is enforced against and the like.

Then you have the shoot first, ask questions later type of folk, and the whole blaming every police officer when not all of them are corrupt.

[Witness]

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Now i come back to the duty of care.  For, in my opinion, it is the duty of anyone that has any information concerning child abuse to report it to the police. 

John, you are in the UK, right?   My son worked for Child and Family Services in the U.S.  He has said that the people who decide not to report anything are usually doing more harm than good.  In doing some research, the UK has a child protection services  - NSPCC.  https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/

"Don't wait until you're certain if you are worried about a child. If you have any concerns or suspicions, contact our free helpline service to speak to an NSPCC counsellor 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

We will listen to your concerns, offer advice and support and can take action on your behalf if a child is in danger.

You don’t have to tell us who you are if you don’t want to, or you can ask us not to share your name or contact with the police or social services. Find out more about how you can remain anonymous below.

All communications will be recorded and we keep records for 15 years."

Intake protection hotlines are there for anonymous callers who have a concern about child abuse.  They put the pieces together to see if its worth calling the police for further investigation.  Someone may report seeing something as bruises on a child frequently...and call the hotline available in their area.    You can remove the burden of what you have heard by placing the information in hands of those who deal with reports like this every day.  

Since this is in text here,  it may put a heavier responsibility on you that can already be read in your words.  It is not easy to dismiss.  As a child-abuse survivor, you know these things - I also know these things.  Sometimes going with your gut feelings, while also choosing the right recourse, is the best thing to do all the way around.

 

 

 

[Witness]

"A mandated reporter is a person who, because of his or her profession, is legally required to report ANY SUSPICION of child abuse or neglect to the relevant authorities.  These laws are in place to prevent children from being abused and to end any possible abuse or neglect at the EARLIEST POSSIBLE STAGE.

Child care providers

Caregivers

Clergy, although clergy-penitent privileged communication is exempt in some areas.

Counselors and other mental health professionals

Medical examiners and coroners

Health care providers

Police and other law enforcement officers

School teachers, coaches, guidance counselors principals and other school personnel

Social workers

Abortion clinic staff (in some states)

In 15 member States (Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, France, Hungary, Ireland, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom) reporting obligations are in place for all professionals.  

Wikipedia

Shouldn't reporting obligations include each and every one of us who profess to believe in the love of Christ?  Why imitate the Watchtower who hides child abuse under the carpet?  

Woe to those enacting crooked statutes
and writing oppressive laws
 to keep the poor from getting a fair trial
and to deprive the needy among my people of justice,
so that widows can be their spoil
and they can plunder the fatherless.  Isa 10:1,2

 

[Anna]

I would tell the Police everything you know, and leave it in their hands, i.e. let them decide where they want to go with that information. Remember, they are supposed know the right thing to do.

Personally, I would want to remain anonymous, not with the police, but with everyone else. But I am not sure if that's possible.

[JOHN BUTLER]

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

@JOHN BUTLER Just be sure you are certain. Plus this should be discussion with those of your circle rather than here, but it matters not now. Follow that link OH professed, for in doing so it is one of the steps in regards to Child abuse and Neglect Services.

Fora second, I thought it was a C to C case.

That being said, be careful also because misinformation begets consequence and can ruin someone's life in the process, as JTR said, if such turns out to be false, in this sense the outcome will be on your hands and those involved.

I do not have the link right now, but it should help you recognize the signs and from there execute the best course of action.

2 being close friendships and gift giving.

@Space Merchant Quote : "Plus this should be discussion with those of your circle rather than here" 

I don't have a circle. Jehovah's Witnesses are 'encouraged' not to socialize with 'people in the world'.  That means only mix with other JW's. Hence now that i am no longer a JW i have been completely shunned by all of them. That amounts to well over 100 people locally...  100 people that will not speak to me, not even to say hello. 

So I have only my wife and son for company. My son is at work most days and my wife spends time with her mum and our daughters and grandchildren.  Hence i had spent so much time working at the 'Big House', most days alone. 

That is why i brought the problem here. Even before i put it up on here I had gone to my bedroom and prayed to God and cried about it. It hurts me, the problem itself, the people involved, and not knowing what to do. 

 

[Anna]

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

  100 people that will not speak to me, not even to say hello. 

That is why I said try to get the police it keep it confidential, because some of those people might get the mistaken impression you are doing this out of a grudge.

In any case, if you explain exactly from what source you know this information, then the polic should be wise enough to handle it as possible "hearsay" and tread carefully when conducting their investigation so as not to falsely accuse someone. That is if they are competent.