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Jack Ryan

Is it inappropriate for a Christian to participate in Black Friday?

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I get your point.... this video I just saw on FB says something similar...

BUT what can a person do? Stop shopping altogether?

Maybe this is why Jesus said it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

This topic makes one reconsider MANY things:

 

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1 hour ago, The Librarian said:

This topic makes one reconsider MANY things:

I think that if we really understand the following point in the "Knowledge" book, true Christians need to treat EVERY DAY AS BLACK FRIDAY!!!

*** kl chap. 13 pp. 126-127 par. 17 Why Living a Godly Life Brings Happiness ***

  • Of course, godly parents do not await a special day to show their children love. A 13-year-old Christian girl remarked: “My family and I have lots of fun. . . . I’m very close to my parents, and when other kids ask why I don’t celebrate holidays, I tell them that I celebrate every day.” Said a Christian youth aged 17: “In our house, gift-giving is all year long.” Greater happiness results when gifts are given spontaneously.

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Looks to me like JW's have anti -holidays, so it's just as bad.  I've known JW's that will not eat a roast dinner on 25th December because they are frightened it will look like a Christmas dinner.   

As for pushing for a special effort on a stupid day, well it seems like a way of actually celebrating that day to me. It's like saying they know that day is special to people. 

And the Christmas day door to door witnessing is not a good thing. It's intrusive and rude. It's not wanted by people outside the JW org.  I did it once just to prove that i wasn't scared to do it, but it does not show love to people, it's just being 'pushy' to the extreme. 

 

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40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for pushing for a special effort on a stupid day, well it seems like a way of actually celebrating that day to me. It's like saying they know that day is special to people. 

Spot on! Bingo! Good point. I've always felt the same way about treating one day as all others vs treating one day as more important than others.

  • (Romans 14:5) . . .One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others;. . .
40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And the Christmas day door to door witnessing is not a good thing. It's intrusive and rude.

But not so much worse than the way Black Friday has already intruded on Thanksgiving dinners by starting it at 5:00pm on Thursday and going until 1AM, so that our local "Best Buy" didn't open up again until 8AM on Friday. (Which also reminds me that "Best Buy" was playing Christmas music for persons on hold as early as October 30th this year.)

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34 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Spot on! Bingo! Good point. I've always felt the same way about treating one day as all others vs treating one day as more important than others.

  • (Romans 14:5) . . .One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others;. . .

But not so much worse than the way Black Friday has already intruded on Thanksgiving dinners by starting it at 5:00pm on Thursday and going until 1AM, so that our local "Best Buy" didn't open up again until 8AM on Friday. (Which also reminds me that "Best Buy" was playing Christmas music for persons on hold as early as October 30th this year.)

Oh I'm so glad I'm an Englishman in England. Not proud to be English, just happy to have been born here and live here.  And living in the countryside Black Friday means nothing to me. My wife and i went to view an 'in house' auction yesterday, which we would do any day. It's so nice to have a simple life. 

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    • @JW Insider and there's your 15 minutes of fame!
    • Vidéo par écrit Restons neutres en pensées et en actions.docx Vidéo par écrit Restons neutres en pensées et en actions.pdf https://www.jw.org/fr/bibliothèque/videos/#fr/mediaitems/pub-jwb_201903_4_VIDEO Vidéo par écrit : « Restons neutres en pensées et en actions» Jean 17 :16 « Ils ne font pas partie du monde, comme moi je ne fais pas partie du monde. » Nous devons rester neutres pour être de fidèles sujets du Royaume de Dieu. Sinon, comment pouvons-nous avoir la conscience nette quand nous prêchons que seul le Royaume de Dieu résoudra les problèmes de l’humanité ? Le monde de Satan approche de sa fin et on peut s’attendre à ce qu’il soit de plus en plus difficile de rester neutres. Le professeur de sciences : « ok, prêt pour la vidéo ? » Dan, Jordan, les stores, s’il vous plaît ? « Cette semaine, par groupes, vous réfléchirez aux mesures politiques que les gouvernements devraient prendre. N’oubliez pas, c’est vous les jeunes, qui devez agir pour résoudre les problèmes qui menacent la planète. Chacun de vous est concerné. » (cris de manifestants) « Quand on sera en guerre, c’est toi et moi qu’on enverra se battre. Est-ce que t’auras le courage de dire non ? (ils font signer des pétitions) (En prédication) Une dame déclare : « Moi, je me préoccupe des élections, surtout pour les jeunes comme toi. A ton avis, qui va gagner ? » Le jeune proclamateur : « Hum… nous croyons que… je veux dire, hum… » Sa mère répond : « C’est un sujet très intéressant. Les Témoins de Jéhovah croient que c’est le Royaume de Dieu qui apportera la solution à tous nos problèmes » Le jeune proclamateur est dans un fast food et entend deux hommes qui sont à table où l’un déclare : « Tu sais, ce nouveau gouvernement, je crois vraiment que sa politique va marcher. »  L’autre homme répond : « ça va pas, non ? Avec leur politique, dans moins de trois ans, on sera ruinés » « Mais si ça marche, on sera riches » « Les riches peut-être, mais nous….. » Le jeune proclamateur rentre à son domicile, allume la télé et entend une journaliste qui déclare : « Nous avons invité des spécialistes pour répondre aux questions suivantes : l’opposition peut-elle l’emporter ? Va-t-elle tenir ses promesses envers ceux qui ont un faible revenu ? A quels changements peut-on s’attendre pour le service militaire ? Vous avez sûrement hâte d’écouter les réponses. Commençons par le ministre de l’Education, John Mc Carty Le jeune proclamateur réfléchit : «  Si ma fidélité est mise à l’épreuve, je veux vraiment prendre position pour Jéhovah. Mais toutes ces questions peuvent avoir des répercussions sur moi dès aujourd’hui, sur ma famille, sur mes objectifs. Alors, comment rester neutre, surtout au fond de moi ? Il prend la Bible et lit Jean 17 :14-19 « Je leur ai donné ta parole, mais le monde les a haïs, parce qu’ils ne font pas partie du monde, comme moi je ne fais pas partie du monde. Je ne te demande pas de les retirer du monde, mais de veiller sur eux à cause du méchant. Ils ne font pas partie du monde, comme moi je ne fais pas partie du monde. Sanctifie-les par le moyen de la vérité ; ta parole est vérité. Comme tu m’as envoyé dans le monde, moi aussi je les ai envoyés dans le monde. 19 Et je me sanctifie pour eux, afin qu’eux aussi soient sanctifiés par le moyen de la vérité.» Il raisonne : « Ne pas faire partie du monde, comme Jésus, ni en pensées, ni en actions » (En prédication) Un homme déclare : Ok, mais de mon vivant ? Le jeune proclamateur répond : « Oui. Il y a quelque chose dans la Bible qui m’en a convaincu. Je peux vous montrer ? C’est dans Matthieu 24 :33 « De même, quand vous verrez toutes ces choses, sachez qu’il est proche, à la porte » Comment pouvons-nous rester neutres dans les affaires sociales et politiques ?   jwb_F_201903_04_r240P.mp4  
    • Vidéo par écrit Restons neutres lors d'évènements public.docx Vidéo par écrit Restons neutres lors d'évènements public.pdf https://www.jw.org/fr/bibliothèque/videos/#fr/mediaitems/pub-jwb_201903_3_VIDEO   Vidéo par écrit : « Restons neutres lors d’évènements publics » La sœur : « Je suis dans la cuisine, Curtis. Alors, ta journée ? » Le frère : « Je suis bien content d’être rentré. J’ai hâte de manger » La sœur : « C’est prêt dans cinq minutes. Mais j’ai une surprise. A mon travail, on m’a donné des billets pour le match de ce week-end et on peut tous y aller. C’est dans le centre… Le frère : « ça avait l’air sympa et c’était un sport qu’on pouvait regarder sans problème. Avec Colette, ça faisait des années qu’on n’était pas allés voir un match, et pour les enfants, ce serait une grande première. On avait tous hâte de sortir en famille. Le fils : « Mais papa, qu’est-ce qu’on doit faire pendant l’hymne national ? Le père réfléchit : « Franchement, je ne savais pas trop » Toute la famille est au match. Le commentateur : « Mesdames et messieurs, veuillez-vous lever pour l’hymne national » Toute la famille reste assise. Les autres assistants sont debout et remarquent l’attitude de la famille lui reprochant de rester assise, allant jusqu’à faire des gestes de critiques. A la maison, la fille pose une question : «  Papa, ils saluent le drapeau dans ma nouvelle école » Le père réfléchit : « C’est vrai, la rencontre avec les professeurs avait lieu la semaine suivante, et on ne s’était pas encore renseignés » Le professeur à l’école : « Les enfants, maintenant que tout le monde est là, levons-nous pour le salut au drapeau. Elizabeth, tout va bien ? » La mère : « Qu’est-ce que tu en penses ? » Le père : « Eh bien, demain soir, on a notre culte familial. Ça vous dirait le thème de la neutralité chrétienne lors d’évènements publics ? Le fils : « Bonne idée ! » Le père : « ça sera intéressant. On fera tous des recherches » J’ai demandé à Daniel (son fils) de trouver des principes sur la neutralité. La mère et la fille devaient trouver des personnages qui sont restés fidèles sous la pression. Et moi, je devais appeler la nouvelle école de ma fille pour savoir s’ils saluaient le drapeau ou s’ils chantaient l’hymne national. J’ai téléphoné. Le père : « On avait étudié le sujet quand les enfants étaient plus jeunes, mais face à de nouvelles situations, on avait besoin de rappels. Les enfants ont trouvé de bons arguments. Plusieurs principes de la Bible s’appliquent. Mais le principe de base, c’est ce que Jésus a dit en Matthieu 4 :10 « C’est Jéhovah ton Dieu que tu dois adorer, et c’est seulement à lui que tu dois offrir un service sacré.” » Si on participe à une cérémonie patriotique, on rend un culte à quelque chose ou à quelqu’un d’autre que Jéhovah. Mais comment savoir quoi faire ? Elizabeth (la fille) a trouvé des exemples à imiter. Shadrak, Méshak et Abed-Négo faisaient partie de nos préférés. Quand le roi Nabuchodonosor leur a ordonné d’adorer la statue en or, ils sont restés courageusement debout alors que tous les autres se sont mis à genoux. Ils étaient résolus à n’adorer que Jéhovah et il les a sauvés du four du feu. Mais à notre époque aussi, certains ont été des exemples de courage, comme les trois Hébreux. Des enfants ont dû résister à beaucoup de pressions quand des gouvernements, en temps de guerre, ont voulu les obliger à participer à des cérémonies patriotiques ou quand il y a eu des élans de fierté nationale. Et malgré des victoires juridiques dans certains pays, aujourd’hui encore, la fidélité des jeunes est mise à l’épreuve. Notre culte familial nous a appris qu’il y a différentes façons de gérer une situation. Tout dépend de l’endroit où on vit et de ce qui est considéré comme une manière de participer. Mais dans tous les cas, un chrétien montrera clairement qu’il est un observateur respectueux, et non un participant. On était heureux de notre décision parce qu’on allait être respectueux mais neutres, et qu’on allait montrer à Jéhovah que notre famille n’adore que Lui. Comment nous préparer à des situations qui pourraient mettre à l’épreuve notre neutralité ?   jwb_F_201903_03_r240P.mp4
    • Probably depends on the book or article and the particular writer assigned. For example, 1914 is mentioned in Chapter 8 but the whole big section on 1914 with charts and diagrams in "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" were moved to the Appendix, whereas they had previously been in the main text. The 2018 Watchtower Study edition never mentioned 1914 once. The 2018 Watchtower Public edition only mentioned 1914 once.* The 2019 Watchtower Public editions never mentioned 1914 once. *And only as a fulfillment for Jesus' prophecy about wars and reports of wars, NOT as a fulfillment related to Christ's enthronement. Compare this to 76 mentions in the Watchtower for 2014. This is not enough to measure a trend yet, but it's something to watch for. *** w79 9/15 p. 23 par. 8 The “Cup” That All Nations Must Drink at God’s Hand *** Why did Jehovah call King Nebuchadnezzar “my servant”? Because He used him to punish the people of Judah for their refusal to listen to His prophets. Punishment through this king of Babylon also extended to the neighboring countries that maliciously exploited Jehovah’s people out of contempt for Him. This does not mean, however, that Nebuchadnezzar was a type of Jesus Christ, who worshiped Jehovah alone as God. Rather, it is the executional work that Nebuchadnezzar performed for Jehovah upon the guilty nations that is typical. It prefigures the world-conquering work that Jesus Christ as Jehovah’s Chief Executional Officer carries out during the approaching “great tribulation,” in which all the enemy nations will be reduced to dust under the feet of Jehovah’s topmost Servant. *** w50 11/15 p. 444 par. 17 Subjection to the Higher Powers *** So it must be remembered that both Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus were used as types. In destroying Jerusalem in 607 B.C. and taking the Jews captive to Babylon Nebuchadnezzar was being used as Jehovah’s executioner against the unfaithful Jewish nation. For this reason Jehovah spoke of him as “my servant” and gave him the domination over other nations of this world. In this capacity Nebuchadnezzar was a type of Jesus Christ. The 100 plus teachings that would be impacted by the October 2014 Annual Meeting talk, and the subsequent Watchtower in March 15, 2015 would include these 42 from the book "You May Survive Armageddon into God's New World": 80 more of these were included in a 1981 Watchtower: *** w81 3/1 p. 27 Do You Appreciate the “Faithful and Discreet Slave”? *** OVERWHELMING CREDENTIALS The “faithful and discreet slave” has abundant credentials. Following is a partial list of Scriptural and prophetic designations applying to or being represented in the remnant of Jesus Christ’s anointed followers since the notable year 1919: (1) Noah’s wife, Gen. 7:7; (2) angels sent to Lot, Gen. 19:15; (3) Rebekah, Gen. 24:64; (4) Joseph and Benjamin, Gen. 45:14; (5) gleanings left behind, Lev. 19:9; (6) two spies to Rahab, Josh. 2:4; (7) Barak, Judg. 4:14; (8) Jephthah, Judg. 11:34; (9) Naomi and Ruth, Ruth 2:2; (10) David’s Israelite warriors, 2 Sam. 18:1; (11) Jehu, 2 Ki. 10:11, 15; (12) Mordecai and Esther, Esther 4:13; (13) Job, Job 42:10, 13; (14) King’s daughter, Ps. 45:13; (15) men of loving-kindness, Ps. 50:5; (16) intimate group, Ps. 89:7; (17) Shear-jashub, Isa. 7:3; (18) light of the nations, Isa. 60:3; (19) big trees of righteousness, Isa. 61:3; (20) ministers of our God, Isa. 61:6; (21) cluster preserved, Isa. 65:8; (22) servants called by another name, Isa. 65:15; (23) men trembling at God’s word, Isa. 66:5; (24) new nation born, Isa. 66:8; (25) Jeremiah, Jer. 1:10; (26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant, Jer. 31:33; (27) enduring watchman, Ezek. 3:16-27; (28) man in linen, Ezek. 9:2; (29) cleansed people, Ezek. 36:29-32; (30) dwellers in center of earth, Ezek. 38:12; (31) the host of heaven, Dan. 8:10; (32) sanctuary restored (cleansed), Dan. 8:14; (33) they that are wise, Dan. 11:33; (34) the happy one who is keeping in expectation, Dan. 12:12; (35) all flesh receiving the spirit, Joel 2:28; (36) Jonah, Jon. 3:1-3; (37) apple of Jehovah’s eye, Zech. 2:8; (38) liberated remnant, Zech. 2:7; (39) a Jew, Zech. 8:23; (40) sons of Levi, Mal. 3:3; (41) wheat, Matt. 13:25; (42) sons of the kingdom, Matt. 13:38; (43) workers for the vineyard, Matt. 20:1; (44) those invited to marriage feast, Matt. 22:3-14; (45) chosen ones, Matt. 24:22; (46) eagles, Matt. 24:28; (47) faithful and discreet slave, Matt. 24:45; (48) discreet virgins, Matt. 25:2; (49) brothers of the king, Matt. 25:40; (50) little flock of sheep, Luke 12:32; (51) beggar Lazarus, Luke 16:20; (52) sheep in “this fold,” John 10:1-16; (53) branches of the vine, John 15:4; (54) royal palace of David, Acts 15:16; (55) heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17; (56) the remnant, Rom. 11:5; (57) branches in the olive tree, Rom. 11:24; (58) holy ones or saints, 1 Cor. 6:2; Rev. 16:6; (59) temple, 1 Cor. 6:19; (60) new creation, 2 Cor. 5:17; (61) ambassadors for Christ, 2 Cor. 5:20; (62) congregation of God, Gal. 1:13; (63) part of Abraham’s seed, Gal. 3:29; (64) Israel of God, Gal. 6:16; (65) body of Christ, Eph. 1:22, 23; (66) soldiers of Christ Jesus, 2 Tim. 2:3; (67) house under Christ, Heb. 3:6; (68) holy priesthood, 1 Pet. 2:5; (69) holy nation, 1 Pet. 2:9; (70) association of brothers, 1 Pet. 2:17; (71) seven congregations, Rev. 1:20; (72) twenty-four persons of advanced age, Rev. 4:4; (73) spiritual Israel, Rev. 7:4; (74) locusts, Rev. 9:3; (75) two witnesses, Rev. 11:3; (76) two olive trees, Rev. 11:4; (77) seed of the woman, Rev. 12:17; (78) New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:2; (79) the bride of Christ, Rev. 22:17; 19:7; (80) Jehovah’s witnesses, Isa. 43:10.
    • @Srecko Sostar  Here in the UK we would say that you have 'opened up a can of worms'  with your words above.  You have opened the way to hundreds of questions.  And although @Witness gives some very fine comments, she/he also opens the way to many questions.  For God to fulfil his 'plans' I would think He would need some kind of 'united people' Earth wide. And hence He would need to guide those people by using/sending His Holy Spirit to them.  But as the GB and presumably the Writing Dept et al, admit to not receiving God's Holy Spirit  then I presume God cannot be using them at this time. No i don't expect humans to be perfect or to act perfectly. But I do expect anyone chosen by God, to become leaders in God's chosen 'united people', to be inspired by God's Holy spirit so as to do their jobs properly.   As you say Srecko, God works through His Holy Spirit. He has always done so in the past, why would He not do so now ?  
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