In Defense of Shunning

[Evacuated]

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The Elders remove anyone that can prove how disgusting the JW org is. If a congregant mentions the Child Abuse / Pedophilia problem and gives proof of names of pedophiles, names of victims, then the congregant will be disfellowshipped for CAUSING A DIVISION WITHIN THE CONGREGATION. That way the Elders can pretend that the person was a 'sinner' and needed to be removed. 

By the way, did you get that child abuse issue you were talking about sorted? The Childline suggestion seemed to be a way you could keep personally out of the frame and still get some practical advice on the matter remembering that there could be children at risk. How did you get on with that? You did get on with that didn't you?

 

[Jack Ryan]

[JOHN BUTLER]

As I've said many times before I believe the Holy Scriptures are for the Anointed only to follow closely. The REAL Anointed ones would be spiritually mature enough to act properly and do things without malice. Of course us other sheep should serve God through Christ as best we can, but should not be expected to make such decisions as would cause harm to others.

So, firstly the REAL Anointed need to be found,  and that is not the GB of the JW org. Neither is it the Elders of the JW Org. This can be seen by their deeds. 'By their works you will know them' And so it shows well that those people are not Anointed by God. 

@Space Merchant seems to have a loving heart and he seems to find good in those that lead the JW Org. SM, I have to disagree with you. In my opinion the Elders are not qualified to do the things they do. Not spiritually qualified, not guided by God's Holy Spirit. The Elders are human, as are we all, and they act in ways that are not in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ. The GB and the Elders go 'beyond the things written' just to get things done. 

Hence when the Elders / Circuit Overseers or others disfellowship a person it may not always be for sinning against God. It may be because a person is not wanted in a congregation as the Elders do not like that person. Remember that those Elders are ONLY HUMAN. And they do not have the guidance of God's Holy Spirit that a truly Anointed person would have.

It is so easy to mention Jesus Christ and the Apostles and the Disciples, and to use them as an example. BUT they were all of the Anointed Heavenly Calling. They had received God's Holy spirit. 

It is not possible therefore to compare the GB or the Elders to Christ and His close followers. That gap in comparison is massive. There is in fact no comparison. 

Those of the true Anointed whilst on this Earth, would only be human in body. In mind and heart they would be spiritual beings.   

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Those of the true Anointed whilst on this Earth, would only be human in body. In mind and heart they would be spiritual beings.   

I suspect there are more women of the Anointed of God, than men ... as a general rule in the general population, they seem to be more spiritual, than men .....

.... We TRY to be spiritual ....  but we also try to be as cool as Clint Eastwood.

[TrueTomHarley]

39 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... We TRY to be spiritual ....  but we also try to be as cool as Clint Eastwood.

So what about it, punk? Ya feelin lucky today?

I think my next project will be to introduce @JOHN BUTLER to @Jack Ryan and duck out the back door while they get to know one another.

"Now TrueTom, knowing that the one part was made up of atheists but the other of malcontents, cried out in the WorldNewsMediaForum: “Men, brothers, I am a believer, a son of believers. Over the hope of the existence of God I am being judged.” Because he said this, a dissension arose between the malcontents and the atheists, and the assembly was split. For the atheists say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor God, but the malcontents accept them all.  So a great uproar broke out, and some of the scribes of the party of the malcontents, though not John Butler, rose and began arguing fiercely, saying: “We find nothing wrong in this man, but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him—.” 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

24 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

"Now TrueTom, knowing that the one part was made up of atheists but the other of malcontents, cried out in the WorldNewsMediaForum: “Men, brothers, I am a believer, a son of believers. Over the hope of the existence of God I am being judged.” Because he said this, a dissension arose between the malcontents and the atheists, and the assembly was split. For the atheists say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor God, but the malcontents accept them all.  So a great uproar broke out, and some of the scribes of the party of the malcontents, though not John Butler, rose and began arguing fiercely, saying: “We find nothing wrong in this man, but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him—.” 

Such is the way it is, down at the wine-dark sea, topsails and mainsails, wah de do DAH!

[JOHN BUTLER]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

So what about it, punk? Ya feelin lucky today?

I think my next project will be to introduce @JOHN BUTLER to @Jack Ryan and duck out the back door while they get to know one another.

"Now TrueTom, knowing that the one part was made up of atheists but the other of malcontents, cried out in the WorldNewsMediaForum: “Men, brothers, I am a believer, a son of believers. Over the hope of the existence of God I am being judged.” Because he said this, a dissension arose between the malcontents and the atheists, and the assembly was split. For the atheists say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor God, but the malcontents accept them all.  So a great uproar broke out, and some of the scribes of the party of the malcontents, though not John Butler, rose and began arguing fiercely, saying: “We find nothing wrong in this man, but if a spirit or an angel spoke to him—.” 

malcontent

/ˈmalkəntɛnt/

noun

plural noun: malcontents

1. a person who is dissatisfied and rebellious.

    

   @TrueTomHarley cannot be talking about me then.  I'm a man that knows truth and is not afraid to speak or write it. 

    

   I wonder if the Pharisees would have called Jesus a malcontent.  Worth a thought Tom. 

[Witness]

On 11/29/2018 at 8:17 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

I will ask you the same question that I asked the big boy: “Without such congregational tools of discipline, which do come across as harsh in today’s world,  is it possible for a group to keep its core moral values over time? Do you know of any examples?”

Please do not respond with what “should be.” Respond with what is. Do you know of any examples?

Fair enough.  But, why are you making such a challenge to begin with?  Knowing what you do about the harm happening in the WT from disfellowshipping, (or are you cognizant of it?)  are you trying to prove that “Jehovah’s organization” and its specific “tools of discipline” is the only choice God sanctions for keeping moral values in check?    

Since the “whole world lies in the power of the wicked one”, there is not a concrete non-religious group nor any established religious group found in Satan’s world that is able to keep its “core moral values over time.”.

If you could only detect that being part of a religious organization is being part of the “world” which makes keeping moral values in place, an impossibility.   Once an organizational structure develops, a ruler-ship over others becomes necessary.  Rules are fabricated, according to whomever wields the power, and determines what is adequate for the “group”.  And, any who refuse to agree with those rules could be threatened with excommunication. Some of these rules could originate in the Bible, but used in the wrong context; or, additional ones are added requiring a guidebook written by the leaders.

In the Watchtower organization, all “fellowship” is based on allegiance to the organization itself.  There is the lustful “desire” to build beautiful structures, appealing to the eye.  Pride in what they have developed on the earth takes precedence. In fact, I would not be surprised if the GB believe Warwick Bethel will survive into the coming Kingdom of God.  These “things” contribute to the organization’s growth, as well as the drive and expectations for men especially, to move up the religious “corporate” ladder.  1 John 2:15-17

Can anyone apply biblical values to a philosophy that mimics what can be found in Satan’s world, and be successful at it?  1 John 2:15,17

Yes, JWs preach, and they are well known for preaching falsehoods.   If they preach something that is untrue 5 years later, are they blessed by God for imparting darkness to their neighbor?  Truly, showing love to one’s neighbor by telling the truth is one of the core moral values, and the law of God.   WT’s assumed moral values broke when the its leaders first uttered their lies and strutted their dominance over all.  Luke 22:24-27

Although, there are individuals all over the planet, who desire and already have within themselves, core moral values.  Are they considered a “group”?  In a sense.  I know of many, but many others do not make their name known.   Christ knows who they are. John 10:14,15 Their “tools of discipline” are what is written solely in the Bible and they have the wherewithal to heed them.  It is spurred on by an authentic love to serve God and Jesus faithfully.   Many also look to the guidance of proven and tested anointed ones, to see how they can apply these tools, if there is a need. In the process, they are blessed with new understanding which is not possible in an environment where dark, dead teachings exist.  1 John 1:5; Matt 7:15-20   But, each individual approaches Christ who leads them to whom HE sends.  John 13:20    You won’t find them in “Satan’s world”, since they are “no part of the world”. John 17:15,16 There are no structures where they meet and are “organized”, nor record-keeping, and no collecting donations to support and build a blossoming empire.  Although I have in mind the Wt, it is more a fading flower, soon to come to nothing. Ps 37:20; Zech 4:7; Rev 8:8

So, there is a “fellowship” of the children of God, who are perfectly able to be responsible for developing their own core moral values by turning directly to the Father and Christ and receiving help from Holy Spirit.   We may not see the final result of this group until the Kingdom of God arrives, but I can guarantee that a good many of them have come from the organization where the life they knew was cut short. Matt 16:25  In their family and friends’ eyes, they are determined as “dead”; although they feel “alive” in Christ.  Rev 13:15; Eph 2:1-5; John 3:16    From then on, those who claim to have “love for their neighbor”, express hatred for them, a principle set down by those who instigated harsh disfellowshipping.  1 John 3:12; John 3:16

Why will we not know who this group may be?  Because Jesus said, there is no physical place where we are to worship. No central physical location or “mountain” is approved by God for our worship.  God abandoned the early temple arrangement and established His Temple in Christ.  Jesus is telling us how to maintain spiritual distance from Satan’s realm and to be aware of those who will divert our attention away from the true Temple built with living stones. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17   It is  God’s will that our worship is “in spirit and truth”, which doesn’t require slavery to elemental things of the world.  Rom 6:16;Col 2:8  Stephen also brought this out, but he was killed for doing so. Yet, “stiff-necked” Wt leaders have developed the organization - a god that goes before the people who they must “move ahead” with, or be left behind.  John 4:13,14,21-24; Acts 7:39-41,48-51; Exod 32:23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. ²² On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name?’ ²³ Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers!’

JWs have forgotten or can’t acknowledge that Jesus said to follow him.  This doesn’t equate with following an organization.  It is as it is; we follow him, in spirit and truth.   Matt 10:38; 1 John 4:17; 14:6  The division that disfellowshipped ones experience for doing so, is exactly how Jesus prophesied it would happen. 

“I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! ⁵⁰ But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! ⁵¹ Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. ⁵² From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. ⁵³ They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” Luke 12:49-53

 

“We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. ⁴ We write this to make our joy complete.  This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. ⁶ If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. ⁷ But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.  1 John 1:5-7

Darkness takes on many shades in the Watchtower, but it never becomes light.

 

[Witness]

This is a letter written by an exJW and sent to many in the Watchtower.  This person saw through the delusion to join an organization and its process of disfellowshipping.   It seems apropos to bring out under this thread. 

 

"Gaining bible knowledge through reading and study was
something I deeply cherished as a Jehovah’s Witness.  But as my comprehension grew over time, so did my troubles with a restless conscience.
Specific information I read in the publications, and particular
statements repeated by elders and others on a regular basis didn’t appear to be
supported scripturally; likewise for certain mandated procedures that were
carried out each week, month, etc.  But the real source of the cognitive dissonance I struggled with for years was a couple of rules I bumped into not long after my baptism over 17 years ago--the two most important rules for JW’s:  

1.  obey the Governing Body as if they are God himself

2.  Accept and comply with all Watchtower teachings, even when they deviate from the scriptures.

The publications, elders, etc. never stated these directives in such
straightforward terms, but they were fully understood by the rank and file
nonetheless. Why the issue? These rules required me to obediently “follow the
leader” regardless of whether it bothered my conscience to do so.  This was not what I dedicated my life to God for and in fact, such requirements were completely incongruous with what I was preaching to individuals of other faiths.

The same bible verses were recited time and time again to the Lutheran,
Catholic and Mormon:  obey God as ruler rather than men; be faithful even in what is least; be sure of all things; test every inspired expression; do not put your trust in men.  I wanted to help all I met in the ministry to understand that blind complacency was not acceptable according to God’s word.  

“True” Christians must:

 1. carefully and independently scrutinize all
church teachings, policies and procedures

2. Defy church authorities and their
organizational protocols when it is evident that scriptural directives are not
being followed

3. Cancel church membership if necessary.  Needless to say, the imposed double standard
--do as I say, not as I do--made it increasingly difficult to engage in the
door to door ministry. How could I tell anyone to do these things when I wasn’t
doing them myself? 

From the beginning right up to the present, the Organization
has been well-known for its countless flip-flops/revisions/discards, etc. in
doctrines, policies, and procedures, as well as numerous failed predictions. So
I am simply drawing attention to the obvious by pointing out that Watchtower
leadership is wrong at times.  As mentioned, my biggest issue was that I was required to “follow the leader”, i.e., accept and comply with absolutely everything the Governing Body and elders told me to--despite the frequent changes and inconsistencies, and
despite the fact that doing so meant I had to not only ignore my bible-trained
conscience, but ignore God as well. 

There were times when I went out on a limb and discussed my concerns
with a few individuals, but the response was always the same:  Wait on Jehovah.  Put another way, do what the elders and Governing Body tell you to do no matter what; Jehovah will straighten things out in his own due time. (sound familiar?)This stock answer never made sense to me so one day I decided to do a bit of research (Acts 17:11; 1 John 4:1)

It didn’t take long to see that such thinking was entirely
out of sync with God’s word, and the following explains why.  According to the Gospels, the leaders of God’s covenant people had once again strayed from his Word by establishing their own standards of righteousness and, as in times past, Jehovah wasn’t
happy about it. His feelings on the matter where made known by Jesus’ scathing
denunciations, but more than anything else, he condemned them for their
self-righteous arrogance and hypocritical double standards. (Matt. 3:9; 23:3,13-32; Romans 2:17-24)
As you know, the story ends with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem--God’s divine execution of justice upon his unfaithful people, his “ channel” which, interestingly, wiped out the lives of not only the Jewish religious leaders, but the rank and file as well, i.e., those who had trusted and obeyed these men rather than God. From this information, one can draw the following conclusion: We will all be individually accountable to the Lord on judgment day, regardless of our religious affiliation (2Cor.5:10).
Therefore, no individual, nor group of individuals, nor religious organization is exempt from God’s judgment, regardless of what anyone may claim to the contrary (Matt. 3:9; 7:21-23) There is no salvation,  no “ark” of safety, in any religious organizations nor the leaders who guide them consequently. (Psalms 146:3, 4)

The tragic death of each and every rank and file Jew that perished in Jerusalem
in 70 CE is a sobering reminder of what awaits those who think otherwise, who
erroneously believe the following:

1. Membership in a particular religious
organization provides divine protection and exemption from some of the
scriptural requirements they teach others to live by (Acts 10:34; Romans 2:21)

2.  Absolute, rather than relative
subjection to their religious leaders equates to obedience to God and Christ.
Remember, giving allegiance and loyalty to anyone or anything other than Jah
first, constitutes spiritual fornication, idolatry--something He does not
tolerate. (Exodus 20:3; Ephesians 5:5; Rev. 14:4a)
Think about this the next time you compliantly promote Watchtower dogma that is not supported scripturally (Ephesians 4:25), or follow organizational procedures that violate bible principles, because you have probably done these things over and over again
with little or no thought as to the potential consequences.  I did.
For years, I tried to silence that little inner voice and faithfully do
whatever I was told in order to demonstrate obedience to the “Slave” and
maintain a good standing in the congregation.

It’s truly ironic that for 17 years, I was vigilant in avoiding any sort
of political and/or nationalistic demonstration of allegiance or loyalty for
fear of committing idolatry; and yet for 17 years, I made sacrifices, not to
God, but to an image –a religious organization.

But what about the verses that say we must speak in
agreement and be submissive to those taking the lead (1 Corinthians 1:10;
Hebrews 13:7), or the one that mentions the light getting brighter (Prov.4:18), you may ask.  Well think about this: since Jah never lies or contradicts, his principles, rules and prophecies are consistent and unchanging, even if this doesn’t always appear to be the
case. Like a beautiful masterpiece in a dimly lit museum, the many intricacies
of God’s immutable truths cannot be seen nor fully appreciated without a bright
light--a divine luminary that dissipates the shadows of unenlightenment over
time. (Psalms 36:9; 43:3) So even though we may not comprehend everything we
read in God’s Word, we can still draw the conclusion that Jah does not require
anyone to blindly “follow the leader” and/or maintain hypocritical double
standards in worship.  If the inverse were true, verses such as Acts 5:29, Psalms 146:3, and 1 John 4:1 would not be in the bible. With this in mind, why is it that JW’s hang on the Governing Body’s every word, never questioning any of their claims, yet exhort their
neighbors to carefully scrutinize everything their religious leaders say and
do? After much thought, I believe I have formulated a reasonable
explanation.

 Consider the following.

As a student of the bible, I can say with confidence that
neither Proverbs 4:18 nor any verse indicates that Jehovah is directly or
indirectly responsible for the Governing Body’s long track record of
contradictions, flip-flops in understanding , major policy changes (e.g., organ transplants), failed predictions, etc. To even imply anything to the contrary is clearly misleading, for this suggests that the Organization’s consistent misrepresentation of the scriptures is due to Jehovah’s slowness in shedding light, rather than the real reasons  -
presumptuousness, lack of holy spirit, arrogance, etc. on the part of
the GB.  And yet, each time these changes occur, Proverbs 4:18 is cited in the related Watchtower articles and quoted in talks from the podium, leading JW’s to believe that these men are not directly
responsible for any errors they make (because it’s God’s doing).  This raises the GB to the level of infallibility, which is the very reason why you and many others mechanically
“follow the leader”, regardless of how much or how often they deviate, revamp,
revise, scrap, screw-up, etc.

A similar process takes place in the case of Hebrews 13:7, 1 Corinthians 1:10, and other verses such as Psalms 42:5. When considered within the context of the biblical canon, not a single verse, illustration, or account indicates that JW’s are under divine obligation to comply with the GB’s every dictate –right or wrong (Acts 5:29). Even hinting
that the inverse is true is nothing less than a deceptive, megalomaniacal
attempt to alter God’s universal hierarchy of authority in the minds of
spiritually-inclined individuals (1 Corinthians 11:3) And yet, the GB does just
that and more in order to perpetuate the lie that absolute, rather than
relative subjection to their headship equates to obedience to God and Christ.  These eisegeses and others are consistently and frequently dispensed via the talks, publications, etc. week after week,
month after month, and year after year.

In fact, during one particular meeting, a highly respected elder
declared, “Whatever comes out of the mouth of the Slave, you consider that as
coming out of the mouth of Jehovah.” In light of the foregoing, such grandiose
claims are utter blasphemy (Jah NEVER lies --Romans 3:4). What’s even worse is
the fact that compliance with these mistruths and others is strictly enforced
much in the same way the Catholic Church once sanctioned any who challenged its
unscriptural dogmas, policies, and practices.

Apostate branding, public humiliation, removal from the congregation and
shunning by JW family members and friends is the outcome that awaits all who
dare to listen to their consciences and loyally uphold God’s word (Acts 5:29).
These shameful implements of evil have led to mental and emotional problems,
serious physical ailments, and even death among a significant number of
disfellowshipped JW’s. Taking all this into account, it’s no wonder Jehovah’s
Witnesses practice hypocrisy!

If you have no problem being deceived, lied to, manipulated
and controlled by fear, you are where you should be—in the Organization of
Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, if, like me, you have experienced a crisis of
conscience due to the unscriptural autocratic style of governance the
Organization wields, DO NOT IGNORE IT. God has given you a conscience for a
reason, so it is vitally important that you use it as HE intended.  Here’s how:

1. Read and study your bible exclusively and independently

2.
Independently research the history of the Organization and current and past
Watchtower doctrines, policies, and procedures, paying particular attention to
the frequent flip-flopping, revisions, etc.

3. Independently and carefully verify all information that is dispensed
via the publications and public talks, rejecting anything that is not solidly
backed by God’s word.  Be particularly on guard for statements that tell you to accept and/or comply with whatever you are told, even if it doesn’t make sense, add-up, etc.

4. Practice what you preach!  Refuse to hypocritically teach
others to apply bible standards that you are not fully complying with yourself
(e.g., preaching 1 John 4:1 but not applying it)

5. Refuse to commit idolatry/spiritual fornication by complacently “following the leader” when you know or even sense that doing so requires, or may require, disobedience to God and his word (Remember, he who is faithful in what is least, is faithful in
what is most!)  

6. Refuse to be intimidated and controlled by family, friends, elders or anyone else that
attempts to frighten you into remaining in subjection to the Organization
rather than Jehovah

7. Pray to God for strength and courage to do what is right according to his word.  

If you are unclear by what I mean by “independently”, let me explain.  Rather than relying on the Organization’s self-published material to verify the accuracy of the Organization’s
assertions, claims etc., seek out sources that are not controlled by, nor
affiliated with the Watchtower. This is what Jah wants you to do and it’s what
you tell others to do! (Acts 17:11; 1 John 4:1) Verify, test, check--just as
you would if you were buying a vehicle.
Rather than rely on the salesman’s claims, you would consult independent
and objective sources of information like Consumer Reports or carfax.com,
before making the decision to buy.     

What is the purpose of this letter? I assure you it is in no
way an attempt to subvert your faith in God. To the contrary, it is a plea to
fully trust and comply with God’s Word, regardless of the consequences (fear of
man is what lays a snare).  And it is a warning. If you continue to remain in the Organization and complacently accept whatever you are spoon-fed, you are pleasing men, not Jehovah…. and you are in danger.  The tragedy that befell God’s unfaithful anointed in the first century foreshadows future events that will befall God’s modern-day, unfaithful anointed remnant and all those (the rank and file) who put their faith and trust in them.  I realize JW’s are taught to believe that Christendom is modern day apostate Jerusalem, but this simply isn’t so. If that’s the case, God’s anointed remnant is in Christendom, not the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.  This is a critical point because it involves you on a very personal level.  How?
According to the scriptures, wherever the anointed are is precisely
where the apostasy and subsequent judgment will occur. So then, if the remnant
is located in your religious organization, the foretold apostasy will also
occur within your religious organization. Ask yourself:  why did Jehovah spare the Samaritans –the “pagan half-Jews”--when he brought destruction upon his covenant people in 70 CE?

According to the pattern set in the first century, the
purpose of the modern day apostasy is to fully test the anointed. (Mal.3:2,3)  Whether they qualify to co-rule mankind in the future will be determined by whom they ultimately choose to serve –Jah or their unfaithful religious leaders.  The Revelation prophesies and many others reveal this tuggle war of loyalty
(Matt.4:8, 9; John14:30; 18:36; Rev.1:5; 5:10; 6:15; 16:12,14; 17:2,10,12,14,18; 18:3,9; 19:16-19; 20:4,6; 21:24; 22:5).

On one side is Satan and the unfaithful anointed who, like the Pharisees, deviate from God’s word (and deceive the rank & file into doing the same), and on the other, Christ and
his faithful anointed who loyally uphold Jah’s standards even unto death
(Revelation 2:10).  Sadly, the vast majority of those on the battle lines will not prevail because they are on the losing side, caught in the same trap that Satan set in the first century:  a religious organization that appears to have God’s approval.

This information (preceding two paragraphs) is not of my own
originality but comes from anointed brothers and sisters--yes, members of the
body of Christ--who have been kicked out of the Organization for refusing to
comply with unscriptural doctrines, policies, and practices.  Many of these faithful ones wrote letters to the Governing Body about these matters, but they were largely ignored.  How do you think Jehovah feels about that?  Well, how did He feel when Jesus and his disciples were thrown out of the synagogues? 

In closing, I want to point out that I still worship Jehovah God (and no, I’m not a
Trinitarian).  And I still care about you; this is the sole reason why you have personally received this information.  Should you desire to discuss any of the points presented here in greater detail, or simply need a listening ear and some loving support, please don’t hesitate to contact me.   All communication will be completely confidential so you don’t have to worry.

All My Love,

Xxxx

 

Pearl Doxsey posted this letter on her blog -  4womaninthewilderness

[JOHN BUTLER]

I am now going to tell you of what took place today. Please read it slowly and carefully. 

My wife and i were out delivering things to a charity warehouse and my wife suggested they we go to visit her mother who lives nearby. 

On arriving at my wife's mother's home, we found that she already had visitors. Hayley, one of our daughters (who has never been interested in the JW Org), and Phoebe (one of our granddaughters), but the daughter of our only daughter that remains in the JW Org. 

Poor little Phoebe, 7 years old, didn't know if she should speak to me or not. Obviously had been told by her mother not to talk to me, but I could tell that she actually wanted to. I spoke to her of course but she didn't know what to do... So that is No1 child that is suffering for no fault of her own.

Now i proceeded to talk to my wife's mum and to explain to her that Phoebe's mum Hannah doesn't talk to me since I left the JW Org and to my surprise my wife's mum already knew the situation, and she had asked Hannah why she wouldn't talk to me, and Hannah had said' Because it is the rules, and I am not allowed to talk to him'. That was my wife's mum's words not mine. 

After leaving my wife's mum's home we drove to Hannah's house to deliver a 'baby chair' a sort of bouncy seat to put a baby in. Hannah was at work and her husband was looking after the other two children. My wife took the chair in to the house and I stayed in the car. Hannah's oldest daughter aged 9 said to my wife 'I want to go and see grandad, but I'm not allowed to'.  My wife told me this when she came back to the car of course. So No 2 child that is suffering for no reason of her own. 

So there we have it. TWO children that are suffering because they want to talk to me (their grandad) and they are not allowed to, and a 29 year old baptised woman (our daughter Hannah)  who is SHUNNING ME because it is the rules of the GB and Elders. Yet Hannah doesn't know why, she just follows blindly without question.... And thousands of others do the same.. 

There is the truth about your shunning, Tom and other blind JW's. Not a rant, just plain truth. But truth is something your JW Org and it's GB cannot handle. 

[JW Insider]

20 minutes ago, Witness said:

Since the “whole world lies in the power of the wicked one”, there is not a concrete non-religious group nor any established religious group found in Satan’s world that is able to keep its “core moral values over time.”

Witness, I don't remember ever giving you an upvote before on any topic, but I can tell from the way you took this issue seriously, and from how well you wrote the entire last response, that you are sincerely concerned about handling the word of God aright, and thinking deeply about the issue here.

Naturally, I don't agree with everything you say --especially the degree to which you take exception to WT practices-- but I was surprised at how closely your response matched the way I was about to respond to Tom on this same topic. Your first point was to make clear that the way in which DFing is handled among JWs has caused serious problems among us, and serious harm to former associates, spiritual damage to both the expelled and those perpetrating the type of DFing that we practice. The way we treat families has become evidence to others that we are not a group of people known for love among ourselves, and that we often show "no natural affection."

Of course we dismiss the way we treat the dismissed and point to how much love we have among those of us who remain faithful to the organization. But this always reminds me of these verses:

• (Matthew 5:46-47) 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?

You are aware of the recent push to encourage us to have even less natural affection among family members by encouraging total emotional blackmail through the DFing process. This has started up again in the last couple years from videos shown at meetings and assemblies, and similar counsel. We should immediately think of how Paul told Timothy about the kinds of things Timothy should expect in congregations of the first century because it had been predicted that in those last days Timothy would see persons "having no natural affection." But there is an interesting point Paul made in this context that is usually overlooked:

• (2 Timothy 2:23-3:5) 23 Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights. 24 For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed. Perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him to do his will. 3 But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, . . , 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, . . . puffed up with pride, . . .  5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.

What is missed is that Paul told Timothy to reject foolish and ignorant debates, but also to turn away from these people who showed "no natural affection" in those last days. This is the way that the principle of DFing actually works among Christians. It's about turning away from the people, even brothers, who show no natural affection. It's not about a congregation always being in total agreement about the exact rule by which someone is greeted and another person is not greeted, or someone can eat with us and another person cannot. In fact, this doesn't ever mean that we reject the chance to speak about spiritual things with such persons, it's just that we don't share in their conduct. We avoid their influence on us, and we avoid associating in such a way that we could give others the impression that we have joined in their conduct or support their conduct. We don't become influenced by their wrong, and show restraint in engaging with them when we are the ones personally wronged.

In other words (I think it's rare, but) if we do witness a misuse of the DFing process that promotes "having no natural affection" then it is up to us to disengage and disassociate from that kind of behavior even when it is being promoted by elders in our congregation or in the worldwide congregation. We can't completely disfellowship our elders from their responsibility, but we can avoid giving the impression that we agree with these practices. Just as we avoid joining in association with a person who calls himself a brother who is a known drunkard, reviler, fornicator, etc. We should be willing to speak out against the kind of videos we have seen recently which praise a person for avoiding familial contact with their own brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers. Of course, when it comes to those who no longer call themselves a brother (or sister) in the congregation we can treat them just as we would any other sinner or tax collector; we are in no danger of giving the impression that we support their conduct, because they are not even claiming to be related to us in the faith. 

In fact, in the other place in the NWT where the expression "no natural affection" is used, we have an additional idea in the context:

• (Romans 1:28-2:2) . . .God gave them over to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting. 29 And they were filled with all unrighteousness, . . . . disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, and merciless. 32 Although these know full well the righteous decree of God—that those practicing such things are deserving of death—they not only keep on doing them but also approve of those practicing them. 2 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are, if you judge; for when you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge practice the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment is in harmony with truth, against those who practice such things.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@JW Insider Quote No 1 :  Of course, when it comes to those who no longer call themselves a brother (or sister) in the congregation we can treat them just as we would any other sinner or tax collector; we are in no danger of giving the impression that we support their conduct, because they are not even claiming to be related to us in the faith.  

Lovely. So now please explain to me in clear plain English WHY 130 people from Honiton Devon England Congregation of JW's, WILL NOT SPEAK TO ME, as i left the JW Org of my own choice, due to the amount of Child Abuse in the Org Earthwide ? 

Even a brother that visited me on the evening before the announcement of my being 'No longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses' and had promised to visit me again after six months, has NOT kept his promise. Making himself a liar in my opinion. I had told him and a couple of others exactly what i was intending to do, so he knew full well the situation. 

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i love your use of the Matthew 5 scripture about only loving those loving you etc.... I have this on a piece of paper hanging up close to me , amongst many other scriptures. 

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Quote No 2 :  "We should be willing to speak out against the kind of videos we have seen recently which praise a person for avoiding familial contact with their own brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers"

Do you really mean this ? A person that speaks out against the GB or the JW org would get disfellowshipped for 'Causing a division within the congregation" (My brother is an Elder and i talked it through with him before I made my decision to leave the Org )

What about speaking out against the CHILD ABUSE SITUATION IN THE JW ORG ? Especially if it's happening in your own congregation.   What are your feelings on that ? 

You see what I'm getting from your comment is only theory not practice. Do you put your ideas into practice ?