Why do the elders have to announce when a publisher decides to spend 70 hours a month in service?

[TrueTomHarley]

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I was once told that I could not be a JW if I did not witness to others.  I would be a Jehovah's bystander . 

Of course. If you are not witnessing for Jehovah, then you are not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, are you?

That doesn’t mean you are disinvited to meetings, though, does it? The point is that if they based membership based on who attends meetings, reported membership would be larger than the way it is measured now. 

Every religious group has to have some criteria for counting members. For the Catholic Church, all you have to do is exist.

[JOHN BUTLER]

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Of course. If you are not witnessing for Jehovah, then you are not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, are you?

That doesn’t mean you are disinvited to meetings, though, does it? The point is that if they based membership based on who attends meetings, reported membership would be larger than the way it is measured now. 

Every religious group has to have some criteria for counting members. For the Catholic Church, all you have to do is exist.

I've never looked into how the GB count the members. As there seems to be two 'businesses', the Watchtower and the JW Org, I have no idea if all are counted as one or if numbers are seperate. But I did once think it was by the number that were baptised.

However now, even unbaptised publishers put in reports.  So it looks like you could be counted as a JW by not actually being a JW  because of not being baptised.  My wife did that for a short time. 

I think religious groups count the money more than the members. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@BillyTheKid46 You make a charge of judgment against the Watchtower leaders as false teachers when in fact by your own actions and words, you are this false prophet. 

Oh dear Billy, there is no good reason to even talk to you.  Your Watchtower GB and the ones before them the Bible Students all made things up as they went along. It gets boring to keep mentioning the 'Superior Authorities' and the 'This Generation' and the Blood Issue and the Two witness rule........................................ 

Billy you just don't want to see the honest truth, so be it. 

2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 

Well that has certainly happened in the JW Org hasn't it. CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE. earthwide

3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. 

Armageddon 1914, 1975,  and now soooo close.   Only those in the JW Org will get saved.  The GB are the Faithful and Discreet slave. Lies and more lies. 

BUT I'm not a prophet. Showing the truth about a wicked GB and it's two Orgs is not prophecy. 

Even if you die of old age, what good will it do you, to be judged as unrighteous? Now that's a crazy idea! 🤔

I think we have a different idea of 'unrighteous' Billy.  My thought are that when a person dies their sins die with them. So a  resurrection is a clean start. 

We also have a different idea about sinning against the spirit. In my opinion, and it will remain so, only the true Anointed can sin against the spirit, because only they are inspired of God by God's Holy spirit. 

Hence I also believe that the Bible is for the true Anointed to fully understand and to pass on true information to the earthly class. Back to 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew'. 

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

15 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

WOW! Wahahaat a concept!

1.) ... an Earthly Class ... those of the "other sheep".

2.) ... a Heavenly Class ... those of the Anointed.

3.) ... a Corporate Class ... Watchtower Lawyers and Accountants.

 

Sorry James this idea came from Tom in one of his comments. But I include the GB in number 3. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@BillyTheKid46  Like I said Billy we have different opinions. 

[TrueTomHarley]

13 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However now, even unbaptised publishers put in reports.  So it looks like you could be counted as a JW by not actually being a JW

No. You still don’t have it right. 

If one is witnessing for Jehovah, then that person is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses because he or she is doing what the name says. Why should that be so hard to understand?

Baptism indicates a resolve to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It doesn’t indicate whether one is doing so or not. That is made clear by giving evidence of having a ministry—in this case, by turning in the time that you object to.

[JOHN BUTLER]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. You still don’t have it right. 

If one is witnessing for Jehovah, then that person is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses because he or she is doing what the name says. Why should that be so hard to understand?

Baptism indicates a resolve to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It doesn’t indicate whether one is doing so or not. That is made clear by giving evidence of having a ministry—in this case, by turning in the time that you object to.

No, what it means is, as long as you are true to God and follow scripture, you do not have to be obedient to the GB and its org. 

So i can be a JW in the eyes of some as I still bear witness to God and Christ.    

But I'm not one of Jehovah's Witnesses as I left that Org. 

Actually Tom, you have made a fantastic loophole. You are saying that anyone that witnesses about 'Jehovah' is one of Jehovah's witnesses. 

So in point of fact no one needs to become a member of that two sided Org, the Watchtower and JW Org. 

You have actually made the lovely division between talking about God to others, and, being a member of a false religion that uses God's name. Thanks Tom.

You have made it clear that one does not need to be a member of JW Org or the Watchtower, to be able to serve God. 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

So Billy wants faith and obedience to MEN. MEN who admit to not being inspired of God's Holy Spirit.

And Billy compares that to the Apostles that were Inspired of God's Holy Spirit and proved it too. 

And Billy thinks that people want the Watchtower to be perfect, whereas Jesus said

'You even though you are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your  children' 

Matthew 7 v 9 through 11. 

Indeed, which one of you, if his son asks for bread, will hand him a stone?¹⁰  Or if he asks for a fish, he will not hand him a serpent, will he? ¹¹  Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him!

So here we have Jesus saying that if the Anointed / or those taking the lead,  asked God for good things then God would give those good things. Then the Anointed / those taking the lead, would pass on those good things to the congregation. No lies, no deceit, just good things. 

Billy also thinks the Watchtower / JW Org was 'set up' by God or so his comment looks. 

Quote Billy "God demands for his followers to follow a structured authority setup by him."

So would the onus be on Billy to prove  that the Watchtower / JW Org was set up by God ? 

I personally would think the 'demand' from God would be that we serve God through Jesus Christ. 

[Srecko Sostar]

17 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Only hypocrites demand the Watchtower to be perfect. That just begs the question, who on earth is a perfect human being?

I suppose how every Truth, of every Kind, is Perfect Thing. The Truth is impossible to be something else but Perfect. By this kind of logic everyone who tell/told the Truth about something was showed sort of Perfection in particular Moment for particular Issue. .....Why? Because you don't need to have perfect body or perfect mind to tell The Truth! 

Other problem with our Truths is what @JW Insider has told before: We can believe or/and assure ourselves in something as it is The Truth. :)) But i think, here is more about our Interpretations on this or that, reality or fiction, which come to be, after procedures and mechanisms in Personal or Institutional authorizations, Sort of Normative or Doctrines. And as such some of this various Things in one and same Structure can be Truths and Lies.

Exactly this amalgam of such two opposite things that can be/existing in one single Entity (person or organization of any kind) make that person or organization Imperfect. 

As result, of this Truth, Watchtower IS Imperfect because Truths and Lies Living Together inside Organization/Society.        

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

As result, of this Truth, Watchtower IS Imperfect because

I think it is more along the lines of what a certain brother observed. The younger ones got to be ragging on each other, and he would lean back and marvel, “It’s amazing what Jehovah accomplishes considering what he has to work with.”

[Srecko Sostar]

10 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It’s amazing what Jehovah accomplishes considering what he has to work with.”

Yes Tom, we can go with this sentence on next road too. It is amazing how living in this evil world is so good sometimes..... because JHVH had been successful in accomplished few good things through secular people and their evil systems, despite what He has/had to work with. :))   

[JOHN BUTLER]

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I think it is more along the lines of what a certain brother observed. The younger ones got to be ragging on each other, and he would lean back and marvel, “It’s amazing what Jehovah accomplishes considering what he has to work with.”

You only kid yourself if you think God is 'working with' the GB / JW Org or the Watchtower.