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An interesting take on politics, conspiracies, and prophecies

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Just out of interest, what is the whole point of this topic ?  We all know that Satan is in control of the 'world' and that we  'should' be in the last days -ish.  And I thought JW's were supposed to be 'no part of this world'.  To an uneducated person like me it does seem to be a side track / smoke screen, um, just like politicians use :) 

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@JW Insider

hence real world leaders prefer an anonymous forum to learn from each other.  

Whouldathunk?

the USA was also formed by anonymous writers such as in The Federalist Papers

 

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On 12/5/2018 at 3:00 PM, Anna said:

Most of those 1 percenters can print money, legally, because they own banks, so they dictate the amount you need, to be the 1%.

This is a false statement. But the reasons that it is false could make someone think things are better -- or much, much worse.

Most of the 1% think they are fairly regular people in the upper middle class. Many JWs are in the top 1%. A Witness family that I know in our congregation is a single black mother (divorced) who has been raising 2 daughters and 4 dogs. The house is worth about $450,000 with the mortgage paid off. She didn't graduate college, but worked her way up into a vice presidency in a division of a ritzy international maker of jewelry/perfume/etc. She's been in this job more than 10 years. The job pays about $225,000 plus benefits and bonuses worth another $50,000. She has saved well for her two daughters, one of whom also makes about $100,000.

This household, for the entire USA, has made it into the top 1%. This sister is in the top 1%. When she retires, she will probably remain in the top 1% for several more years, or drop to 2-3% depending on how much she spends on her daughters' weddings, their cars, gifts, etc. She will still be in the top 1% of our city, and our county and our region.

What you were describing, might better be applied to the "top 1% of the 1%" (shades of Bernie Sanders).

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And I thought JW's were supposed to be 'no part of this world'.  To an uneducated person like me it does seem to be a side track

It's definitely a side-track. But it's an interesting one to some people. Also, I see that this topic was in a religiously neutral part of the forum, and an admin has now  moved it into the "Jehovah's Witnesses Public Club."

To me, this will make it interesting because of how politically-influenced our own prophetic explanations have been over the years. Russell himself wrote to the President of the United States to tell him that Filipinos were lazy and that we (USA) should give a large portion of the Philippines to Japan. Rutherford was constantly involved in the political trends of his day. In fact, Rutherford, wrote to Hitler to tell him that he thought that what Hitler was "preaching" in the early 1930's was kind of like a political expression of what the kingdom of God stood for, and therefore, Rutherford expressed appreciation for what Hitler was saying. This only lasted a short time because Hitler didn't buy it. In fact, Rutherford for a short time also stated that the League of Nations was like a political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth. That only lasted a few months. But he was famous for taking sides between capitalists and labor, and just like Russell, predicted that the chaos of Armageddon would be triggered by a clash between the interests of Capitalism and Labor's interest in social justice. This developed into the idea of the West (Capitalists) being the key representatives in the King of the South, and the socialist/communist powers being the key representatives of the King of the North.

Watching this idea develop between the old Daniel book (Your Will be Done on Earth) and the Babylon book and the new Ezekiel book is EXTREMELY interesting to me.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

the USA was also formed by anonymous writers such as in The Federalist Papers

Interesting. I always think of just Jay, Hamilton and Madison, but forgot about "Publius."

  • Google/Wiki: The Federalist Papers are a series of 85 essays arguing in support of the United States Constitution. Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay were the authors behind the pieces, and the three men wrote collectively under the name of Publius.

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39 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

It's definitely a side-track. But it's an interesting one to some people. Also, I see that this topic was in a religiously neutral part of the forum, and an admin has now  moved it into the "Jehovah's Witnesses Public Club."

To me, this will make it interesting because of how politically-influenced our own prophetic explanations have been over the years. Russell himself wrote to the President of the United States to tell him that Filipinos were lazy and that we (USA) should give a large portion of the Philippines to Japan. Rutherford was constantly involved in the political trends of his day. In fact, Rutherford, wrote to Hitler to tell him that he thought that what Hitler was "preaching" in the early 1930's was kind of like a political expression of what the kingdom of God stood for, and therefore, Rutherford expressed appreciation for what Hitler was saying. This only lasted a short time because Hitler didn't buy it. In fact, Rutherford for a short time also stated that the League of Nations was like a political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth. That only lasted a few months. But he was famous for taking sides between capitalists and labor, and just like Russell, predicted that the chaos of Armageddon would be triggered by a clash between the interests of Capitalism and Labor's interest in social justice. This developed into the idea of the West (Capitalists) being the key representatives in the King of the South, and the socialist/communist powers being the key representatives of the King of the North.

Watching this idea develop between the old Daniel book (Your Will be Done on Earth) and the Babylon book and the new Ezekiel book is EXTREMELY interesting to me.

And Rutherford was supposed to a be one of the human foundation stones of the JW Org ?  Hum, well it makes me distrust the Org even more now. Yes it could be argued that he was right back at the beginning and still 'learning', but surely he would have know to 'be no part of the world'.  They broke away from what was supposed to be 'false religion', only to keep meddling in it through politics it seems. 

It actually does make me wonder what the GB / WT / Upper end of the JW Org are meddling in right now. They don't seem to learn much from past mistakes. 

Yes keep the info coming folks, it makes for better understanding for simple folk like me.  Oh what a tangled web they weave..... 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Just out of interest, what is the whole point of this topic ?  We all know that Satan is in control of the 'world' and that we  'should' be in the last days -ish.  And I thought JW's were supposed to be 'no part of this world'.  To an uneducated person like me it does seem to be a side track / smoke screen, um, just like politicians use :) 

Yes of course, Satan is in control of the world, and that perfectly explains the "mess", but by discussing these things we are not making ourselves a part of it are we? Not only that, but notice that my reason for my initial comment was because I have someone who is interested in the Bible, but who is actually involved in one sector of what we are discussing. The reason for me to "educate" myself, at least with what the various terminology means, is so that I can better understand what this person is talking about. If I have no idea, then how can I address anything they say properly? Besides, there is no harm in educating ourselves, no matter what it is. Being ignorant can make someone believe things are false to be true, or conversely, things that are true they may believe are false,  and that in turn can lead to bad decisions and as a consequence a host of other undesirable things. So I don't think anyone is trying to sidetrack or smokescreen. On the contrary, these kind of conversations help to establish facts. No one knows everything, so although you say you are uneducated, you probably know a host of things others don't. I wouldn't say I am educated, but I do have a thirst for knowledge, and I crave facts :) Of course a Christian's prime focus should be in gaining accurate knowledge about God and his purpose. That's a given.

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@Anna Very well explained, thank you. 

As for me knowing anything :) um. There is a song i think that says something like 

'The more I learn the less i know' And my problem now is retaining anything in my head. Memory loss I presume. Plus the problem of not knowing what is truth and what is lies. 

I once, not long ago, wrote on my Facebook page, The one thing I've learnt in life is that i don't know the truth about anything

I wish you well with your 'possible new bible student' and with your gaining of knowledge, political or otherwise. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

This is a false statement. But the reasons that it is false could make someone think things are better -- or much, much worse.

Most of the 1% think they are fairly regular people in the upper middle class. Many JWs are in the top 1%. A Witness family that I know in our congregation is a single black mother (divorced) who has been raising 2 daughters and 4 dogs. The house is worth about $450,000 with the mortgage paid off. She didn't graduate college, but worked her way up into a vice presidency in a ritzy international maker of jewelry/perfume/etc. She's been in this job more than 10 years. The job pays about $225,000 plus benefits and bonuses worth another $50,000. She has saved well for her two daughters, one of whom also makes about $100,000.

This household, for the entire USA, has made it into the top 1%. This sister is in the top 1%. When she retires, she will probably remain in the top 1% for several more years, or drop to 2-3% depending on how much she spends on her daughters' weddings, their cars, gifts, etc. She will still be in the top 1% of our city, and our county and our region.

What you were describing, might better be applied to the "top 1% of the 1%" (shades of Bernie Sanders).

I guess that’s what the original post was asking; “how much money do you have to have to be the 1%”.

I must have understood the question wrong. I was thinking of those who own about 50% of the world’s wealth. So of course who came to my mind were the top wealthiest people in the world, those who have the monopoly over much of the worlds trade etc. and I am sure your friend is not among them, although she has plenty of money.  So yes, maybe what I was describing was not 1% but the 1% of the 1% xD (you know I am not too good with numbers). To be honest I really thought that the 1% were a lot richer. From your description I know quite a number of friends who fit that bracket too. Plus ones in the world. But I never think of them as being in the 1%. My son has just finished a job for someone who is building a $15 million house. I asked my son what this guy did, and he said he was the owner and manufacturer of oak barrels (for bourbon). I wasn't thinking of him in the 1% either. On the other hand, my husband was at a conference and got to talk to Warren Buffet, now that's a different story in my opinion...

 

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes it could be argued that he was right back at the beginning and still 'learning', but surely he would have know to 'be no part of the world'.

You might be stating something so obvious that the Watchtower has explicitly used this as one reason for a recent change in doctrine (only 5 years old) that states that the GB/FDS* only counts from 1919 onward. Previously, we said it was from 33 CE onward and would thus have included the indiscretions of Russell and a few of Rutherford's. The new doctrine now leaves Russell completely out of the picture. Also, Rutherford's time of saying how the League of Nations was 'wonderful and awesome' changed in just a matter of months, just before the beginning of 1919.

*** w91 6/1 p. 13 par. 14 The Spiritual Drunkards—Who Are They? ***

  • In 1919 she was among the foremost promoters of the League of Nations. While Jesus said that Christians would be no part of the world, Christendom’s leaders cultivate relationships with political leaders.

*** ip-2 chap. 13 pp. 184-185 par. 9 “Cry Out Joyfully in Unison”! ***

  • When the Greater Cyrus, Jesus Christ, freed God’s covenant people from captivity to Babylon the Great in 1919, they came to a better understanding of Jehovah’s requirements. They had already cleansed themselves of many teachings of Christendom that have their roots in pre-Christian paganism, such as the Trinity, immortality of the soul, and eternal torment in a fiery hell. Now they set out to rid themselves of all traces of Babylonish influence. They also came to realize the importance of maintaining strict neutrality regarding this world’s partisan affairs.

*** kj chap. 18 p. 346 par. 28 Resurrection to Unity in a “Garden of Eden” ***

  • Then in the liberation year of 1919 the faithful survivors of World War I reunited with the one objective, namely, to be loyal to Jehovah’s reigning King, Jesus Christ, and to preach world wide “this good news of the kingdom.” Jehovah forgave their transgressions and cleansed them of the “dungy idols” of worldly nationalism and other religiously disgusting things.

 

 

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