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Mr Butler - you find this fabulous because it is an eco-chamber.  You saying that what I said fits the GB- this indicates you do not understand what I said.   The GB is part of a nation - these people are not.  Most probably like you they have lost their privilege to be a witness and now take to revenge on internet to justify their positions - something I see here all the time.  The OCD syndrome..... over and over the same of same....  I learnt nothing new here and I did not in the past.    

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Yes of course, Satan is in control of the world, and that perfectly explains the "mess", but by discussing these things we are not making ourselves a part of it are we? Not only that, but notice that

@Arauna I was thinking about the frustrations you expressed earlier. I will create a club on here for JW's that feel as you do. I too sometimes feel frustration when conversations are constantly

Outside of the context of the Christian organization, anybody can say that they are anointed. I can say it. You can say it. Anyone can say it. They might be genuine. They might be deluded. They m

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Jesus had insight which you do not have..... unless you think you are especially gifted.

Jesus was loving to everyone except the Pharisees.  I see a lot of ignorance and arrogance here on this forum.  One cannot answer anyone that thinks they have all the answers and give themselves the right to put themselves on a pedestal - they suffer from the same disease as the Pharisees.

People here think they are especially intellectual.  Logic don't work in them.

However I see you avoided answering the questions. Making excuses is of no use. 

If you're read many of my comments you will know that I've said, I do not KNOW the TRUTH about anything. 

What can be seen is the GB of the JW Org that have placed themselves on that pedestal, and you know it. Those 8 men that CALL THEMSELVES the Faithful and Discreet Slave. And I agree with you that they suffer from the same problem as the Pharisees. And yes logic does not work in them, neither does love, as can easily be seen with the serious problem of the Child Abuse / Pedophlilia within the JW Org. 

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3 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Mr Butler - you find this fabulous because it is an eco-chamber.  You saying that what I said fits the GB- this indicates you do not understand what I said.   The GB is part of a nation - these people are not.  Most probably like you they have lost their privilege to be a witness and now take to revenge on internet to justify their positions - something I see here all the time.  The OCD syndrome..... over and over the same of same....  I learnt nothing new here and I did not in the past.    

Oh dear, so you do not know that I resigned from the JW Org. I deliberately left the Org because of the disgusting things going on within it. The fact that 120 to 150 people from my ex congregation stopped conversing with me because they are all frightened of the Elders and frightened of being disfellowshipped, is their own loss. I would have passed on the things I have learnt to them, and would have given them warnings, but they choose not to converse. I do not go in for revenge, i prefer facts of truth as far as i can establish  them. But unfortunately doing so is difficult because of the fear within the JW org. 

By the way I presume you meant echo not eco. 

Quote : "The GB is part of a nation " So were the Pharisees and look what happened to Jerusalem. 

As for your parrot fashion OCD syndrome remark, you can easily be seen to be copying your 'gods' the GB. 

Keep on serving you 'gods' the GB of JW Org. The same way the Jews served the Pharisees and Sadducees and note how they finished up. 

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You have not done your research on pedophilia..... I can see that.  You have not done your research on the outcome on the Australian enquiries and how many organizations participated...... so do not be an  "accuser" like satan when you know little of the history...... 

I will just mention one item to you because I think you are very uninformed ....... 

There were no laws in any country against pedophilia in the 50s and sixties.    Governments are to blame because there were no laws in place.  People were too afraid to openly speak about it.   It was only in the late 60s and seventies that we find newspapers starting to talk about this.  How do I know?  I worked for newspapers........   

So in the fifties and sixties the JWs  at least kept track of brothers they  did not have sufficient proof for to put them out of congregation.  When the suspect moved to new  congregation the next congregation was notified.... this is what they did during the 50s and 60s.  This is way too little  that was done but still much more than most other sports associations did or even other churches did at the time.   Child molestation is everywhere you find children -  it is everywhere.  Sports associations and scouts etc etc.  

It was only in the 80s when one could get a possible conviction - but it is a crime hard to prove.  Very important! - As late as  2003 the first law in America appeared to protect the child from being cross-examined in court in front of the perpetrator - this was a second trauma to the child...... so I would say that legislation was to blame for the nonchalant approach to this problem.  in 2003 the law allowed for a recording to be used....   Today - it still a problem to get child services to properly evaluate children because most counties  do not have funds to give proper support services. 

Legislation took so long because the top echelons of society such as judges and many legislators are part of child sex rings - or do you really live in a world of naivety?  most of these people have their cases suppressed - or do you think you live in a fair society?  Think again.  In England now there has been suppression of rape cases for 15 years because the perpetrators were of a race that was "sensitive" for police authorities.

At present the age of consent is getting lower and lower - did you not notice that?  In California it has changed - so it is viewed as consensual sex when a child is involved.  With Islamic 10 year old marriages and Female genital mutilation things are changing fast.....  and in many countries police do not even follow it up any more.  Only in America one finds people who want to make a buck from their suffering go to court and the law is kinda retro-active because people judge 40 year cases on the current laws and not on the laws that were in place at the time.....

  So there is just a little for you to think about before you spew you accusations again...... So this is why I left the forum because one has to constantly deal with people who spew deceptive information and have not made sure of their facts or do not want to know what is the truth.  They just need an eco-chamber....

 

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I have an idea you know nothing about the Pharisees and the Talmud - Mishna and all that - the reason you can compare the GB to the Pharisees.  Also not the history of Israel from 200 BCE to 70 CE and the Greek influence in Palestine..... if you knew the history - then you might have respect for the GB..... and not be so quick to make comparisons....

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6 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You have not done your research on pedophilia..... I can see that.  You have not done your research on the outcome on the Australian enquiries and how many organizations participated...... so do not be an  "accuser" like satan when you know little of the history...... 

I will just mention one item to you because I think you are very uninformed ....... 

There were no laws in any country against pedophilia in the 50s and sixties.    Governments are to blame because there were no laws in place.  People were too afraid to openly speak about it.   It was only in the late 60s and seventies that we find newspapers starting to talk about this.  How do I know?  I worked for newspapers........   

So in the fifties and sixties the JWs  at least kept track of brothers they  did not have sufficient proof for to put them out of congregation.  When the suspect moved to new  congregation the next congregation was notified.... this is what they did during the 50s and 60s.  This is way too little  that was done but still much more than most other sports associations did or even other churches did at the time.   Child molestation is everywhere you find children -  it is everywhere.  Sports associations and scouts etc etc.  

It was only in the 80s when one could get a possible conviction - but it is a crime hard to prove.  Very important! - As late as  2003 the first law in America appeared to protect the child from being cross-examined in court in front of the perpetrator - this was a second trauma to the child...... so I would say that legislation was to blame for the nonchalant approach to this problem.  in 2003 the law allowed for a recording to be used....   Today - it still a problem to get child services to properly evaluate children because most counties  do not have funds to give proper support services. 

Legislation took so long because the top echelons of society such as judges and many legislators are part of child sex rings - or do you really live in a world of naivety?  most of these people have their cases suppressed - or do you think you live in a fair society?  Think again.  In England now there has been suppression of rape cases for 15 years because the perpetrators were of a race that was "sensitive" for police authorities.

At present the age of consent is getting lower and lower - did you not notice that?  In California it has changed - so it is viewed as consensual sex when a child is involved.  With Islamic 10 year old marriages and Female genital mutilation things are changing fast.....  and in many countries police do not even follow it up any more.  Only in America one finds people who want to make a buck from their suffering go to court and the law is kinda retro-active because people judge 40 year cases on the current laws and not on the laws that were in place at the time.....

  So there is just a little for you to think about before you spew you accusations again...... So this is why I left the forum because one has to constantly deal with people who spew deceptive information and have not made sure of their facts or do not want to know what is the truth.  They just need an eco-chamber....

 

Make your own excuses if it pleases you. I'm just laughing at you. 

I have info' on the Royal Australian Commision.

I have info on Canada, supreme Court of Quebec.

i have info' on the Netherlands. inc Reclaimed Voices.

I have info on the UK, where i am. Charity Commision and IICSA 

I have info on USA, 

I have info on Spain, 

And i have some info on a case of child abuse within my ex congregation of Honiton Devon, which some on here have told me i should go to the police with. 

As for your stupid idea that governments were to blame, pathetic excuse. I would have thought you would have known your bible well enough to know God's rules and laws on such matters. Hiding pedophiles within the congregations, not telling congregants that there is a pedophile in their congregation. Calling victims liars and even to the point of disfellowshipping some to try to keep them quiet. Telling victims and their families not to report things to the Police. None of that shows love, empathy, sympathy, or respect, to anyone. And it is in total opposition to God. 

 

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8 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

Done! 

 

One question is 'In good standing' with Whom ? And the idea is one from a dictator it would seem. A friend of the GB. 

Of course if one is afraid of being questioned, then just say so. Or, if one is frightened of truth and needs somewhere to hide, then that club seems understandable. 

If it is a joke, then it is kinda funny. And if Admin wishes to kick me out / off of this forum then so be it.  There is only so much that can be said, and i do get fed up of being constantly challenged on the same issues, hence I repeat the same answers. Yes it gets boring and totally off topic but do you really expect me to back down on such important issues ?  Please advise others then to make a different topic if they wish to keep harassing me.  

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@JOHN BUTLER  Well... that would be in "good standing" within the JW community which as you are well aware.... means they would be a "friend of the GB" as you put it above.

@admin who owns this site doesn't care what religion one is...he is agnostic at best. He wanted this club to be off in it's own corner...

I asked him to make my own "JW's only" club to accomodate like minded people in their own area. 

This Public Club will stay here where I am more relaxed on people questioning etc....

I do get ticked off though when people's comments are completed unrelated and off topic (oh.. and spammers)

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39 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I have an idea you know nothing about the Pharisees and the Talmud - Mishna and all that - the reason you can compare the GB to the Pharisees.  Also not the history of Israel from 200 BCE to 70 CE and the Greek influence in Palestine..... if you knew the history - then you might have respect for the GB..... and not be so quick to make comparisons....

It seems we are being told that we are totally off topic. The comparisons I made still stand. 

I'm still ploughing through the complete works of Josephus, slowly. But my life has other interests and 'duties'. 

We must agree to differ, on everything it seems. When I have time i will look into Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, and possibly Lucian. But my mind is not so good as it was 60 years ago.  When i was nine I was told I was above average IQ.  Average must have been very low. :) 

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3 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

@JOHN BUTLER  Well... that would be in "good standing" within the JW community which as you are well aware.... means they would be a "friend of the GB" as you put it above.

@admin who owns this site doesn't care what religion one is...he is agnostic at best. He wanted this club to be off in it's own corner...

I asked him to make my own "JW's only" club to accomodate like minded people in their own area. 

This Public Club will stay here where I am more relaxed on people questioning etc....

I do get ticked off though when people's comments are completed unrelated and off topic (oh.. and spammers)

Fair comment. Do I get to view inside this exclusive Club ? Or is it going to be a place where ex JW's are 'talked about' in secret. :) 

Enjoy your new private club. 

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