Watch your children. (JW Fork)

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The Policeman's  body language when he sat down on the edge of the table did the trick.

As Christians we should try to de-fuse any confrontations .... if we can.

Sometimes ... it does not depend upon us.

Knowing the techniques of how minds work is a necessary skill.

At 5AM, outside a hotel in Greenville, South Carolina, as I was going to my car to go to work, some guy came up to me and demanded money. He was very insistent.

In a calm low tone of voice I told him "I don't have any money ... in fact, if I emptied my gun in your stomach, I could not even afford more bullets."

He looks down, and sees my revolver.

"I want some money, man!"

I said "Let me be clear ... I am NOT going to give you any money."

He went away, and I went to work.

It's easier to be a peacemaker, when you "have the drop" on the bad guys, and they know it ..... AND ... you many times do not have to actually bet your life.

"STUFF HAPPENS", usually when you are not paying attention, or are a coward, and have what you think is a Bible Scripture to support that fear.

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WELL now, if in publication (and in Bible Law) authors giving space for PHYSICALLY defend self, with unknown outcome of such fight, why JWorg ban members to learn how to defend ???? self and others from crime attack???

An incompetent defense is no defense at all.

It's embarrassing to be killed because you were incompetent, and a fool.

[Space Merchant]

On 12/16/2018 at 4:02 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Agree in general. But on other hand you can not stop violence without violence. Or to be said you can stop violence without violence in a few situations. NOT always, and not with people (attackers) who living for harm others. 

But even those who live in such conditions can deal with aggressors without the means of violence.

On 12/16/2018 at 4:02 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

We can call that responsive/reacted violence as Justified violence, because we want to stop other to heart us. But as you aware,  you need some sort, some kind, some measure of Force to stop other to harm. Loud voice, scream,  can be viewed as some kind of  "weapon" to be used in stopping violent intention.  Raising a hand to prevent a kick is also a physical response, and you need reflex and skill how to prevent kick. And what to do after you have stopped first kick .... would you continue to only defending self if attacker continue to harm you or will it be possible to "neutralize" him in some way. Soft and mild words means nothing to some who have bad intentions.

Not always a scream and or loud shouts can prevent an attack. In most cases it only encourages the attacker to continue, should the aggressor intent is to inflict harm out of hate, to rob, to rape, to send a message, in regards to gangs, affiliation should a kill is needed, thus people whoa re unaware ends up making themselves a target, otherwise they are just targeted.

In terms of what @Equivocation had said, you can defend yourself by blocking, and or preventing a blow from coming your way, therefore, self-defense in this sense can be used, grappling and or subduing. Self-Defense in regarding to striking a deadly blow and or to cripple is something you would not be doing at all, more so, you having the intent do commit heavy injury, even kill, it only put blood on your hands, mainly when you give in to some form of emotion in the moment and adrenaline rush.

In you want my experience, most aggressors will not go after people who are seen as intimidating, hence why I do not have this problem, however to someone who is not in my position, the aggressor would try to go after them, even if the person and or victim is unaware of ignorant of his or her surroundings.

On 12/16/2018 at 4:02 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

At the end, Christians pray for Kingdom who will DESTROY all wicked. So, if Bible is book you believe, Bible say that Final Solution is Violence. Violence begets more violence .... from God.   

Vengeance is not in your hands, it is in God's hands, for God is a God of Justice. However you can defend yourself without inflict harm, injury and or death to the aggressor.

On 12/16/2018 at 3:34 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

React quickly. Scream. (Deuteronomy 22:25-27) Escape or fight back using the  element of surprise. And, if possible, run to a safe place and call the police. *   - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201305/protect-yourself-from-crime/

This attest to the practice of combat in terms of sharp vigilance, being aware of your surroundings, the people around you, who you are near and or with, and so forth, and the focus, as picked up from the examples is in regards to being in places whereas there are people around, although most people tend to suffer the Bystander Effect, but there will be some, if in some cases, who will take action in your behalf should you be in trouble. 

This allows you to call the police and or seek help and or go to a safe place. Active Self Protection promotes to get out of the danger zone and always be compliant.

You need an attitude, you need the skills and a plan. You cannot build a house without a plan and the skills to do it, likewise, when it comes to your safety.

On 12/16/2018 at 3:34 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

SECOND INSTRUCTION:

On the other hand, what if a person’s life is threatened by an assailant? A law that God gave to ancient Israel sheds light on this. If a thief was caught in the daytime and was killed, the assailant would be charged with murder. This was evidently because thievery did not carry the death penalty and the thief could have been identified and brought to justice. However, if an intruder was fatally struck at night, the householder could be exonerated because it would be difficult for him to see what the intruder was doing and to ascertain the intentions of the intruder. The householder could reasonably conclude that his family was under threat of harm and take defensive action.—Exodus 22:2, 3.

The Bible thus indicates that a person may defend himself or his family if physically assaulted. He may ward off blows, restrain the attacker, or even strike a blow to stun or incapacitate him. The intention would be to neutralize the aggression or stop the attack. This being the case, if the aggressor was seriously harmed or killed in such a situation, his death would be accidental and not deliberate. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102008204

Pretty much the point that was discus.

You can defend yourself, even having the know how to self defense without inflicting harm to someone, should they attempt to harm you, with self defense skills you can block, you can kick and so forth.

However, you will also have provokers, who will attempt to get you to fight, having the right attitude you can spot this to evade problems because this type of aggressor wants to get something out of you - a show, in order to slander you.

On 12/16/2018 at 3:34 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

WELL now, if in publication (and in Bible Law) authors giving space for PHYSICALLY defend self, with unknown outcome of such fight, why JWorg ban members to learn how to defend ???? self and others from crime attack???

They only tell their members they cannot inflict pain, harm, injury and or death. They can defense themselves without commit to any form of violence. In fact, there are those who in this domain who teaches this time of self-defense.

Now in an example, @Equivocation is a teenager, you are an adult,  and let's add Rook in this for the fun of learning, which of the two are you are most likely to be targeted? Another question I would pose the both of you is if you were both in a situation, let's say a Gas Station in Florida, a conflict rose up on one side of the Gas Station and a guy pulls out a crowbar and threatens to swing it at another man, the other guy pulls out a gun whereas you guys are nearby.What would be your attitude? Your Skill? And your Plan? Among all 3 that unifies all of them, what is the most important thing that one must do? Obvious screaming and shouting in this scenario will only make you a victim in this semi-public place.... And it's Florida.

On 12/16/2018 at 4:15 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4618578/Thai-police-talks-knife-wielding-man-HUGS-him.html

Calming "violent" man with knife.

Off the bat, one thing I will tell you about Knife Attacks is that it is very, very, VERY HIGH in the United Kingdom, such as London, and Knife Attacks are very common. The same can be said for Asian countries. It is not as common in Russia however there was one knife attack, one of which I had seen whereas a lone woman was stab over and over and over again even though she had died - in a case like this the killer knew the person and how these attacks are fashioned, such things is evident.

An Aggressor with a Knife will draw you in, with gripping the knife in his or her other hand whereas someone with a guy will push you away with his or her free arm vs. the knife wielder.

Most of the time knife attacks will happen should the aggressor want to rob you, it is a different story if it is racism and or hating one's religion, examples would be Muslim woman for example in the UK, be it adult and or teen, knife wielders have not just their religion, but their race and or background and will spare no second in an attack, even while in a public place because they know they can commit the action before anyone reacts.

That being said, it all comes down to knowing things. Such as a disarm, you can disarm a knife from someone by means of wrestling it out of a person's hands without commit harm and or injury, and if you are that skilled, you can do the same with a gun.

But compliance in most cases is key, other items you will need a plan or two, a couple, in place.

On 12/15/2018 at 6:05 PM, Equivocation said:

@Srecko Sostar Scream Loud and Run Away? What Bible verse says that?

We should not be fighting anyone at all. Some people like to try and provoke JWs to fight so they can record that information to weaponize it.

A Christian can defend themselves but clearly cannot make an attempt to kill someone. 

This is the difference of a Christian who does this compared to a Christian who believes he can be armed to attack and kill a man, a woman, or a child if they are seen as a threat. 

Self-Defense without commit harm, injury and or killing.

And you are right, you should not take the life of and or seriously arm the aggressor.

[Space Merchant]

On 12/16/2018 at 3:12 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

An incompetent defense is no defense at all.

It's embarrassing to be killed because you were incompetent, and a fool.

The mistake many by a lot of people. Mainly those who attempt to fight back with 0% chance of winning the confrontation. At that point it is a one way ticket to sleeping in Sheol, only to way up some unknown years later during the Resurrection and say to yourself.

"Wow! I really messed up that time"

That being said, one has to be thinking, clearly and quickly, and not be lollygagging.

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You need an attitude, you need the skills and a plan. You cannot build a house without a plan and the skills to do it, likewise, when it comes to your safety.

Of course. Perhaps JWorg can start to produce that sort of video and cartoons to prepare own people for such moments because it is going from bad to worse. Naturally, practical exercises should also be included.

[Space Merchant]

On 12/18/2018 at 2:26 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course. Perhaps JWorg can start to produce that sort of video and cartoons to prepare own people for such moments because it is going from bad to worse. Naturally, practical exercises should also be included.

Such an act is not something to be professed by those of any Christendom faith and or Islamic faith and or other.

That being said, I provided a scenario to you, Equivo and Rook - how would you 3 go about the situation? what would you do?

Since something of the like has been brought up by you, stuff like this one must be serious about.

An example I can being up today is a young man died today even though he complied (though in this rare situation, this guy was seeking blood), I will leave it at that, and since the killer is at large, the community of which I am speaking about is at an edge as police seeks the murderer. A close friend of mine knew the person, and was nearly victim only due to the fact he fell a slept at work for a mere 15 minutes, should he have chosen to go out to that area that was targeted, about 15 minutes a day, he would be in a morgue as we speak.

 

Things like this we have to be serious about.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

My solution would be to NOT actively encourage anybody being totally incompetent when violence strikes..

If you tell , and teach people to not learn how to defend themselves, and they trust you ... perhaps because you are  seemingly representing the will of God ...then ....  you SHARE responsibility for their deaths or injuries.

Stupid people, and victims of chance and circumstance, and/or deliberate evil .... do not need help to become MORE incompetent.

 

[Space Merchant]

23 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My solution would be to NOT actively encourage anybody being totally incompetent when violence strikes..

If you tell , and teach people to not learn how to defend themselves, and they trust you ... perhaps because you are  seemingly representing the will of God ...then ....  you SHARE responsibility for their deaths or injuries.

Stupid people, and victims of chance and circumstance, and/or deliberate evil .... do not need help to become MORE incompetent.

 

And yet it does not negate the latter of them actually speaking on the matter of one defending themselves without committing to major injury of the foe and or killing them.

 

Reasons why I gave a legitimate example to which you, Srecko and the boy to speak on such a matter.

 

That being said, outside of waiting for the answer to scenario. When it comes to self-defense, you agree to injury and death or not and why?

[Space Merchant]

@Srecko Sostar The seriousness of the response still lingers, if self-defense and such situation is of that of a concern for you, you too should speak in all seriousness rather than be lighthearted on something that splits a path of action begetting consequence. But I guess screaming to those affected by the bystander effect is your only best option without doing anything.

 

One thing for certain, there are parts of the world to which some people will eat you alive, in not a literal sense, but in regards to targeting you.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

If I should fall, murdered at someone elses' hands, it is my hope that they will find my body in a pile of spent, hot, smoking brass, and that I will have a grin on my face, and that all my wounds will be in front.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

the matter of one defending themselves without committing to major injury of the foe and or killing them.

In matter of defending themselves, perhaps first thing in mind is about how to defend/escape/minimize injuries on you alone.... and, i think, you have no time and space to meditate about how to be nice and kind or not to kick too strong this hooligan. 

I have no experience in such situations. So, i guess, i would be beating to death if bastards find me in some dark place.    

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

A baseball bat will slip into your pants, behind your belt, and is a horrific close-quarters weapon.... and legal everywhere.

Just carry a baseball glove and baseball in your car with you.