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'I Do Not Know Why We Persecute Jehovah's Witnesses,' Putin Says

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3 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Same answer: 

 
 
 

Okay, just so you know that I am taking your remarks seriously and treating you fairly:

I took your observations to the Worldwide Council of Lofty Ones. When they heard it was you, they didn't want to touch it, but I told them, probably capturing only the spirit of what you might say, not the exact words: "Even a blind transgendered astronaut lands on Pluto once in a while."

At my insistence they examined everything spoken and they concluded that you were right!!! There had been mistranslating. It was not "persecuting" That much was correct. But every other word had been mistranslated and Putin had actually been discussing an episode of Green Acres in which Arnold the Pig feels unjustly put upon.

Now, do you mind? I've got things to do. Do you have any idea the psychiatrist bills I'm running up because of you?

I mean, nobody should look at anything per your "reasoning."  Every second here spent by anyone on anything here or anywhere else is wasted time.

("Ahh...now ve are getting somewhere," my shrink tells me.)

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2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

As usual, TTH ... when you cannot honestly answer a fair question, you resort to a "cutsey" statement that is completely irrelevant, for the specific purpose of diverting attention from the fact that you do not WANT to answer the question, as it would divulge you lack of previous analysis.

The question remains ... and is still valid.

HOW DO YOU KNOW ... Putin used the word "persecuted", if you did not see a video of him saying it .... AND .... competently speak and understand both Russian and English?

Usually when it is people like the TASS, who were pretty much among those the Duma does not like, them attesting to Putin's words is actually correct. They also alluded back to 2016 whereas want Putin had been vocal about Christians and preaching, to which, to those in the Christian world, see as concerning.

Even my sources confirmed this as a truth since they are living in Russia themselves. Not to mention TASS and others had used a video produced by WoA that was uploaded May 2 of last year.

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@TrueTomHarley Now the next thing that is concerning is the Russian Orthodox Church. Should they cry about something to the Kremlin, the Kremlin will act upon what they are being asked. Surely should something go down, the RoC will pop up again to make it difficult for some people.

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Don't criticize person who is Critical Thinker :))))) ..... but you can criticize WT  as much you wish. WT speculative doctrinal thinking has purpose: to collect and keep members who will support Corporation with money and free labor.  

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6 hours ago, Outta Here said:

There, you big hillbilly @James Thomas Rook Jr.  Start translating:

Мы сегодня простились с Людмилой Михайловной Алексеевой. Думаю, каждый из вас со мной согласится в том, что это был светлый, мужественный и сильный человек. Она отстаивала справедливость так, как ей подсказывала совесть. И многие годы Людмила Михайловна участвовала в работе нашего Совета, была в этом кругу среди нас, очень многое сделала, для того чтобы Совет стал

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8 hours ago, Outta Here said:

The relevant portion is translated through bing as follows. I don't speak Russian, but can just about read it phonetically. After letting Bing and then Google translate, Google did a very good job overall, but this one portion appears to be better in Bing, but only for this one particular sentence that I've marked in red below.

------------------

V. Putin: Thank you.

With regard to the first of your stories about this African students got to see, of course, nonsense kakaja‑to. From what you are telling, it's just kakaja‑to nonsense.

And, of course, need to do what you suggest, to analyze the enforcement practice. And, if necessary, make adjustments to the kakie‑to.

B. Ryakhovskiy: For this girl to me now turned to the European Court of Justice, I have continued to ...

Putin: I don't know what denomination it belongs, she is Christian, but there are also a lot of directions. Jehovah's witnesses, too, Christians are being persecuted, I also do not really understand. So we just need to analyze, it is necessary to do so. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.

The Russian language original is 95% down into the page that @Outta Here provided above.

В.Ряховский: По этой девушке ко мне сейчас обратились, для того чтобы я продолжал в Европейский Суд…

В.Путин: Я не знаю, к какой конфессии она принадлежит, она христианка, но там тоже много направлений. Свидетели Иеговы тоже христиане, за что их преследовать, я тоже не очень понимаю. Поэтому надо просто проанализировать, надо это сделать. Я переговорю с Вячеславом Михайловичем, и попробуем это сделать.

The key word here is преследовать, which oddly enough can mean basically "chase" and therefore it can mean both prosecute and persecute. Formally you should to add a phrase that means "judicially" or "by trial" (i.e. преследовать + в судебном порядке, or преследовать + по суду ) and it means prosecute. Without these additions, I think it really should mean persecute, especially if used with a religion or minority in the context. Therefore, it SHOULD mean persecute here, but I suspect this translation could legally be challenged as just a less formal way of meaning "prosecute." 

In fact, if you just go to translate.bing.com and type in преследовать, you will get the following, which includes both prosecute and persecute without the formal additions:

Translations of  "преследовать"
VERB
haunt преследовать, логово, мучить, обитать
pursue преследовать, проводить, осуществлять, добиваться, стремиться, следуем
chase чейз, погони, преследовать, преследование, догнать, гоняться, гоньбы
prosecute преследовать, судебного преследования, обвинить, наказывать, уголовное преследование, сажать, осудить
persecute преследовать
harass преследовать, беспокоить, изводить, домогаться, докучать, запугивания
stalk стебель, преследовать, ножке, черенок, плодоножки, стеблю, палочка
obsessing преследовать, одержимы, увлеченно
© 2018 Microsoft

------------------

For reference, I have also added Google's translation of larger portions of the context below. Both for the original question about JWs, and the context of the later discussion where Putin evidently brings up JWs on his own, even if the particular case (of the African med student "missionary" studying in Russia) was not a JW:

-----------the rest of this post is Google's translation of excerpts from the link that Outta Here provided: ----------

There is also a list, for example, of organizations that also have information that they are involved in extremism and terrorism. There are 489 of them, 404 of them are Jehovah's Witnesses. I will make here an ominous pause. Many, perhaps, there are claims to Jehovah's Witnesses - they don’t transfuse blood, don’t send children to the hospital - but they certainly don’t call for violence and don’t carry it out.

So 404 of 489 - this is it. That’s how many terrorist organizations we have in the Russian Federation. Thus, I would like to express the hope that the anti-extremist legislation will, let's say, be moderated in accordance with the requirements of society and in accordance with the real level of crime.

Because everyone has more or less understood that these searches for pictures on social networks and the initiation of cases on this issue - this does not contribute to strengthening anything, it does not correspond to any state interests, it does not prevent any terrorist acts.

As we can see, when, unfortunately, this kind of thing happens, these are people who did not follow these lists, who did not come into the view of law enforcement agencies, because, of course, they do not post pictures on VKontakte, they do not communicate among themselves in open communities. They coordinate their actions completely differently.

Thank.

V.Putin: Thank you very much.

Ekaterina Mikhailovna, I am very pleased that the questions, rather sharp questions, were raised precisely by you - an employee of the Institute of Social Sciences under the President of the Russian Federation.

E.Shulman: Yes, I am now twice under the President of the Russian Federation, both at the place of work and in social activities.

V.Putin: See, everything is the same.

And they require careful consideration, all the questions you raised.

Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses. Probably, we can, and even should at some point, be much more liberal to representatives of various religious sects, but we should not forget that our society does not consist solely of religious sects. 90 percent of the citizens of the Russian Federation, or so, consider themselves Orthodox Christians. We have three more practically traditional our religions, which the state provides assistance. We should treat the representatives of all religions in the same way - this is true, but nevertheless it is also necessary to take into account the country and the society in which we live. True, this does not mean at all that we should include representatives of religious communities in some destructive ones, not even in terrorist organizations. Of course, this is complete nonsense, you need to carefully deal with it, here I agree with you.

You always return me to the case of Ponomarev, he is probably a truly respected person. But the judge, when he made the decision, do you think I knew that he was making the decision? Of course not. But when a judge makes such decisions, he does not proceed from merit or from something else. If it were a simple citizen who few people know, even the question would not be raised. The law is the same for everyone. To close relatives could be released at parting, at the funeral, there is no other case in the law. The judge is guided by these direct instructions of the text of the law itself, that's all. There is nothing like that, there is no ambush here, there is no political motive.

About unauthorized rallies. Let's still come back to this and see. You yourself mentioned, said about Paris. See, there are victims already affected. The fight is mainly in the center of the capital, and a state of emergency has been declared because of this. How many pogroms there are, burnt cars, shops, the losses are not only in the state, but also in people who have nothing to do with the state, they are enormous. And all this time - like a match, and everything started.

This does not mean at all that we should not analyze our own life and not look after the law that is in place in our country. But still, we must understand the world we live in. Liberal approach to an unauthorized rally. The hard answer from the state what? Water cannons, gas, batons, hundreds of delays - hundreds, can you imagine? Don't we know that? More recently, there have been heavy events in which the Constitution of the Russian Federation was adopted in force, in conditions of growing civil war, in fact, civil war! Crowds of people with weapons ran across Moscow, stormed the Ostankino, crawled along some kind of underground facilities, communications. Regular units of the Russian army were brought into Moscow, internal troops were involved, and they still fired at each other, not understanding what was happening. Chaos! Carefully need to treat this very. Although, of course, it is necessary to analyze the conditions in which we live and the rules that govern our life, including its side, which you mentioned.

Please, I beg you.

---------------- skipping to the area near the end where Putin brings up JWs on his own---------------

If the damage was mitigated, repaid, and the antisocial act is not so serious there.

A.Sokurov: It is the New Year and Christmas amnesty.

Vladimir Putin: Let's think, we have Christmas every year. We must carefully approach this.

It is necessary to finish already. I promised, otherwise I will work until three in the morning.

Here it is, that's all. Please, I beg you.

V. Ryakhovsky: Vladimir Vladimirovich, thank you very much.

To be honest, this is the first time in six years, the turn has reached me.

I have two questions, I will try to short, saving time.

In July 2016, a federal law was passed under the title “On the adoption of additional measures to counter terrorism”, the so-called “Spring Act” among the people.

This law amended the law on freedom of conscience. The Law on Freedom of Conscience was supplemented by a chapter on missionary activity. The definition of missionary activity is given, the procedure for its conduct is established, to the extent that, in order for a person to speak about his convictions, he must be delegated by a religious organization and have a standard document.

The Code of Administrative Offenses introduced Article 5.26 on establishing liability. A year and a half has passed, and I would very much like to ask the initiators of this law: has the goal, which was set by the authors, been achieved? According to this law, at least one extremist was held accountable?

Nevertheless, law enforcement agencies initiated and brought to court more than 600 administrative cases involving representatives of various religious denominations, with the possible exception of one - the most widespread. These things are as unbelievable as imagination can probably be.

Here is just one vivid example: Nizhny Novgorod, a student, a citizen of an African country, a sixth-year student at a medical university, is a little more than a month from state examinations. She gives an interview to one of the Internet channels, talks about herself, about her family, about her childhood, about how she has been a believer since childhood, a Christian, and in Russia she also comes to church, and all this helps her in her studies .

Two administrative cases are brought against her. The first is for violating the rules of missionary activity, she is fined, the second is for violating the goals of staying in the Russian Federation. She arrived on a missionary visa, and here she says something about her convictions. And she is appointed in the second case a fine and expulsion from the Russian Federation. Fortunately, the appellate station probably had enough intelligence: they didn’t cancel these decrees, but they postponed her expulsion until they received the diploma, in just a few months.

Interestingly, the basis of these cases was the expert opinion, which saw in this video hidden appeals, hidden missionary activity.

That is, you understand what's the matter? Hidden. There are no obvious signs of missionary activity. And why are they not? Yes, because it is hidden, and because of this, she was brought to justice.

I can bring a lot of such things, because this is part of my professional interests. The Constitution has a stable notion: when the freedom of conscience is revealed, it is said about the right to impart one’s beliefs. This measure, this rule of law appears, to put it mildly, simply manifestly excessive, it does not contribute to the harmonization of interfaith relations, but, on the contrary, leads to imbalance and violation of the constitutional rights of citizens.

Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we kindly ask you to instruct the Supreme Court to simply summarize the practice. And then there are so many accumulated of these cases that you can just draw caricatures. It just comes to ridiculous! I just brought one thing, but in fact there are a lot of them. And to raise the question of generalizing this practice on 5.26 with respect to religious organizations, and in general, probably, raise the question of the expediency, to what extent is such regulation justified. There is the concept of "spreading religious beliefs." Why else to introduce the concept of "missionary activity"?

The second question is completely irrelevant to this. Literally the day before, I had a meeting with several businessmen who responded to your May invitation to return to the Russian Federation after the years of emigration on the so-called Titov list.

And indeed, it was precisely by believing your word and not doubting your innocence, because those behind whom there was something, I think, would not even come at your invitation. And the fact that several people have already returned to their homeland in the hope that, while at home, they will be able to recover and protect their good name.

And one of the first defendants in the so-called Titov list, who returned to Russia after 13 years of forced emigration in London, became a businessman from Yekaterinburg Sergey Kapchuk. I met him. You should have seen his eyes after he arrived. Just burning, shining - he came home, he came, believing your call and believing that here is true today, unlike those years when he left, justice.

But, alas, he encountered today the same methods of investigation from which he had once escaped. He was automatically charged since 2005. After reading the materials of the case, as he explained to me, the corruption scheme in the government of the Sverdlovsk region, in which it was used, simply became clear.

They filed applications for the interrogation of specific people, heads of individual industries, confrontations - all of this consequence closes his eyes today, and, as we understood, is ready to bring the case to court, to hang up some conditional or slightly lax sentence, order to forget this thing.

But he did not come for this. He did not come to be given a conditional sentence, not to be released under an amnesty, but to prove that he was innocent.

Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, kindly requested. The first is to give the General Prosecutor's Office to take over the cases of Sergei Kapchuk, and similar cases for the people who came, returned to Russia, to take control. And to you, of course, such a request, to still follow the fate of these people not until they returned, but in general, before the completion of their work.

This case has a public outcry today. Why? Because others, those who still remain abroad today, they are closely watching the result of this business. This will be an example for them, as an urge to return to Russia too. And, fulfilling the request of Kapchuk, I just wanted to give you a short appeal from him.

Thank you very much.

V.Putin: Thank you.

As for your first story about this African student, you need to look, of course, some sort of nonsense. From what you tell, it's just some kind of nonsense.

And you need, of course, to do what you propose - to conduct an analysis of law enforcement practice. And if necessary, make some adjustments.

V.Ryakhovsky: According to this girl, they now appealed to me, so that I would continue to the European Court ...

V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.

K. Kabanov: Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich.

Dear Colleagues!

You know, I actually, probably, in my 14 years of work, every time I hear that we have two problems: law enforcement agencies and bad laws.

In fact, in the framework of the instructions you gave last time, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we dealt with the history of the criminalization of the teenage environment. But, as we were taught at previous duty stations, we must look deep into, look, study . . . . 

 

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.

I still, in my own mind, assuming that I know the mind of Russian thinking ... especially of a man who used to be the head of the Soviet KGB, and also presumably knowing how adults in such positions think, do NOT believe that he used the word "persecute".  I believe this was in the mind of the translator, or the algorithm of the translation computer program,  ... NOT V. Putin.

Unless I can talk to someone who has the original video or transcript, in Russian, and who is conversational in BOTH Russian and English ... and I can get an equally qualified second opinion ... It is my belief and conjecture that the word he used is "prosecute".

Here is the general idea of  how I believe the thoughts actually were spoken:

" V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how it is (meaning "why?") we prosecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it."

If there is ANYBODY that knows HOW to persecute AND prosecute someone ... it is the former head of the KGB.

Translation is an art, as well as a science, and there are some artists that put out poor work, and scientists that plow your aircraft into a cornfield, and some computer programs that, like the HAL9000, do not take into consideration all aspects of a problem.

Deactivating Hal 9000 HD (COMPLETE).mp4

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The organization’s latest pictorial depiction of the 144,000 kings/priests ruling in heaven was of a vast array of emerald green thrones where men appearing identical to one another and to Christ, gazed over the earth as Christ’s “co-rulers”.  I wonder what the anointed JW women feel about a female’s apparent transition into a man, who are clones of each other.  This teaching sounds ridiculous to me today.  However, since the role of JW women is repeatedly slighted, should we expect any acknowledgement of the anointed being both male and female?  I could be in error, but I haven’t seen any photos of women partaking in the magazines.  There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  Gal 3:28 To be one in Christ does not mean the faithful sealed anointed take on the same physical appearance as Christ. All of the members of a fleshly body are distinctly different in appearance; working separately yet collectively, with the unified goal to allow the body to work efficiently.  It is the same in the Body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:15-20  All are given various gifts, and all are individuals with individual personalities. They have abilities reflecting the gift they receive.  Paul described it this way: There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.  1 Cor 12:4-6 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 1 Cor 12:19,20 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized byone Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 1 Cor 12:12-14 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.  Eph 4:11-16 The 144,000 are the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant “woman”/promise.   (2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:29-32; Gal 4:26) It is curious that the WT's leaders rarely go into detail about this.  When I recall their latest illustration described above, I don’t believe the artist had the idea of “bride” in mind. I could only sense an aura of steely authority, without the needed compassion and love that Jesus exhibited and taught his disciples to nurture within themselves. (Isa 42:3; Matt 14:14; John 13:34,35; 1 John 4: 17; Heb 4:15) Just as a bride and groom are not identical to each other, neither is Christ’s Bride of many members; either to Christ, or to one another, as the illustration erroneously shows. (1 Cor 12:29,30; Eph 4:11-13)  Marriage partners compliment and support each other in love.  It is the same with the Body of Christ, being united in one Spirit that imparts love, faith and knowledge of Christ and the Father. The organization’s leaders are unable to perceive this spiritual unity, since they have rejected the Spirit of Christ, in exchange for the spirit of Satan.  (John 15:4-7;1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:3; 2 Pet 1:10; Rev 2:4; 8:10;13:11) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  1 Cor 2:12-14  In order to “rule on the earth”, God’s priests must be on the earth.  If we can shed the false belief that once the 144,000 are sealed in “heaven” they will remain there, we are then able to grasp how such “heavenly” angel/messenger/priests will be found ruling, teaching, and helping God’s future children on the earth.  (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 1:14; Rev 5:9,10)   We can comprehend God’s “new creation” as having two “births”; one by fleshly parents through Adam and Eve, (Gen 2:7) and one by spiritual parents.  (John 3:3,5; 1 Cor 15:50; John 15:45; 20:22; Gal 4:26) Once Jesus was resurrected, he appeared many times to his disciples in the flesh; and just as easily, disappeared into the spirit realm.   His example set the precedence of what it means to be a “new creation”.  (Mark 16:12; John 21:14; 1 Cor 15:3-8)  By combining this event with Pearl Doxsey's help from her article, “Who are the gods?”, we can visualize the 144,000 “angels” present not only in the spirit realm, but on earth as well: The sons of God ("gods") inherit the promises given to Abraham. What promises are these? "I will make you very fruitful (John 15:8) I will make nations of you (Rev 5:9,10), and kings will come from you (Rev 20:4; 1:5; 3:21; 19:16,15; 2:26,27)". “Jacob had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.  There above it stood the Lord, and he said: "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying  (Ps 37:29; Heb 2:5,16; Gal 3:29; Heb 11:8-10; 13:14; Rev 21:2; Heb 12:22,23; Luke 10:20) (Gen.17:6).  Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring (Rev 22:2). I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go (Matt 28:20), and I will bring you back to this land (Rev 21:7).  I will not leave you (John 14:18) until I have done what I have promised you (John 16:22).  Jacob was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place (Heb 12:22,23,28)! This is none other than the house of God (1 Cor 3:9,16; Isa 56:7; Eph 2:19,10); this is the gate of heaven (Rev 11:6; Matt 16:19; Rev 3:12; John 10:9; 2 Cor 5:20)." (Gen.28:12-15,17) "Jesus added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open (Luke 24:32; Rev 2:17; Matt 13:11; Rev 4:1; 1:1)  (John 3:12; 1 Cor 2:12,13; Col 3:2), and the angels of God ascending and descending (Heb 12:22; Eph 2:6; Rev 3:21) "on* (Greek--*"in service to") the Son of Man.” (John 1:51) The "angels" (Lit. Greek, "messengers" – Isa 43:10,21; 1 Pet 2:9; Mal 2:7; Acts 1:8) referred to here, could not have served before the time of Christ (John 3:13) Jesus specifically said that they are in service on "the Son of Man" (1 Cor 4:1).  The "Son of Man" is Jesus in the flesh (John 1:14). Therefore, these angels serve Christ, after his coming down from heaven.  To be a messenger of Christ ("ambassador") who harbors God's spirit of life within... who has been made new (Rom 12:2; 8:11) as a part of God's new creation (2 Cor 5:17) by means of incorruptible seed, the Word of God (1 Pet 1:23; Luke 8:11)... …who has been reborn as a Son of the Most High (John 3:3,5; Rom 8:16,17,19,28-30)... who has been made an immovable pillar in the eternal heavenly Temple of God (Rev 3:12; Prov 9:1; Jer 1:18)... ...is a "god" (Ps 82:6; Rom 8:14; 1 Cor 8:5).  I do hope readers here find this information to be a personal turning point as it was for me, in learning that both Christ and the 144,000 kings and priests/ Bride of Christ, will have access to heaven as well as on earth, and living among God’s future children in the Kingdom. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” Matt 5:14  Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. Rev 21:1-3  “But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple” Rev 21:22 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. Rev 22:3-5 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Cor 3:16 Pearl Doxsey: (type in her name and the title of the article in the search bar. The link should appear) “End of the New Covenant” “Those not anointed – what benefit now?” “The Holy City”   PLEASE SEE AND ENJOY,   “The Holy City” - http://pearl-holycity.blogspot.com/   Pearl Doxsey, “End of the New Covenant” Those not anointed-what benefit now? - http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/04/i-received-two-questions-1.html         And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” (Heb.1:6) "Jesus will again, be brought into the world. At that time, the totality of his angels/messengers, will worship him... and be in service to, the Son of Man."  Pearl Doxsey
    • We do have very good reasons, the math for 1914 wouldn't work out otherwise Yes, I think we would laugh. After all, messing around with numbers to "fit something you want it to fit" sounds pretty cultish. When looking at this subject again, in light of Br. Splane's talk about types and antitypes, and how he said that (paraphrased) we have to make sure that when we are talking about types, that they are genuine types, because the word of God says they are puts a whole different slant on it. Then the idea is enforced even further when he says who is to decide if a person or event is a type, if the word of God doesn't say anything about it and he quotes Br. Shroeder: ( We need to exercise great care when applying accounts in the Hebrew Scriptures as prophetic patterns or types if these accounts are not applied in the Scriptures themselves). Therefor reading the account in Daniel 4 without any preconceived ideas, I see these main lessons: verse 17  "This is by the decree of watchers, and the request is by the word of the holy ones, so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.”  Lesson: (quite self explanatory really) Jehovah can do what he wants because he is the ultimate sovereign. verse 27  "Therefore, O king, may my counsel be acceptable to you. Turn away from your sins by doing what is right, and from your iniquity by showing mercy to the poor. It may be that your prosperity will be extended". Lesson: Listen to Jehovah and do right, otherwise Jehovah will discipline you. verse 37  “Now I, Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, am praising and exalting and glorifying the King of the heavens, because all his works are truth and his ways are just, and because he is able to humiliate those who are walking in pride. Lesson: similar to above, and also proof that Jehovah carries out his discipline.  ---------------- The reasoning put forward as to why this particular chapter of Daniel (4) has greater meaning (paraphrased from WT October 2014) is that the book of Daniel has a central theme, that of God's Kingdom, and keeps pointing forward to the establishment of that Kingdom under the rulership of his Son, Jesus. For example what it says in Daniel 2:44: "“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever.” I can see that Daniel Ch 2 is talking about Neb's. dream of the statue, representing subsequent rulerships, and that during the feet period God's Kingdom will come. In my opinion this is one valid and definite description of when the Kingdom will come. Then Chapters 7 and 8 are full of cryptic beasts, Chapter 9 prophesy about the coming of the Messiah including his cutting off, chapter 11 more cryptic descriptions, this time involving the king of the north and south, and the last chapter (12) the time of the end with Michael standing up. I need an encoder! I must admit, because of my more practical disposition, when we studied the Daniel book, I did not pay enough attention. My son was quite small and I had my hands full, and I can't even remember if we studied it again after that? For example what are these numbers about?: Daniel 12:11  “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. 12  “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!" (It's ok, no need to answer, I can look it up myself).   ,Sorry, I was being confusing. I didn't mean 607 was special. I meant what happened when counting 2520 years from that date, I meant that 1914 was a very significant year. (have to go, will carry on later)
    • My daughter would play her album Time After Time, over and over. When I found out that Eva Cassidy had already died when the album came out, it kind of made a few of the songs sound even more "haunting" than they already were.
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