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Srecko Sostar

Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level

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GB famous phrases are: "we are not inspired but we are guided, motivated"... and... with self invented/claims: "JHVH trusts us, Jesus trust us".....they ask YOU to trust THEM.  And JW members, in general,  not see trap and snare by what GB try to enslave human minds.

 

2. (a) Who is “the faithful and discreet slave,” or “the faithful steward”? (b) How has the slave established a fine record of “following the Lamb”?

2 What can be said about the anointed Christians in modern times? In his prophecy about “the sign of [his] presence and of the conclusion of the system of things,” Jesus referred to the composite body of his spirit-anointed followers on earth as “the faithful and discreet slave,” or “the faithful steward.” (Matt. 24:3, 45; Luke 12:42) As a group, the slave class has established an excellent record of “following the Lamb no matter where he goes.” (Read Revelation 14:4, 5.) Its members remain virgins in a spiritual sense by not defiling themselves with the beliefs and practices of “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. (Rev. 17:5) No doctrinal falsehood is “found in their mouths,” and they remain “without blemish” from Satan’s world. (John 15:19) In the future, the remaining anointed ones on earth “will follow” the Lamb right into heaven.—John 13:36.

3. Why is it important for us to trust the slave class?

3 Jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave “over his domestics,” that is, the individual members of the slave class, “to give them their food at the proper time.” He has also appointed the slave “over all his belongings.” (Matt. 24:45-47) These “belongings” include the growing “great crowd” of “other sheep.” (Rev. 7:9; John 10:16) Should not individual members of the anointed and the “other sheep” trust the slave appointed over them? There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave.

5. What shows that God’s spirit is empowering the slave class?

5 Jehovah also blesses the slave class with his holy spirit. While Jehovah’s spirit is invisible, what it produces in those upon whom it operates is not. Think of what the faithful and discreet slave has been able to accomplish in giving a worldwide witness about Jehovah God, his Son, and the Kingdom. Jehovah’s worshippers are actively proclaiming the Kingdom message in over 230 lands and island groups. Does that not give undeniable evidence that God’s spirit is empowering the slave? (Read Acts 1:8.) In providing timely spiritual food for Jehovah’s people the world over, the slave class must make vital decisions. In making them and putting them into effect, the slave exhibits love, mildness, and other aspects of the spirit’s fruitage.—Gal. 5:22, 23.

source; https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2009123#h=7

Now we have some work (read Critical Thinking, not criticism :))) ) to do about claims in paragraphs. 

First, if you, as JW and student, regularly reading this sort of spiritual foods, you already noticed that many important doctrinal changes are occurred since 2009 and this Study Material in your congregation.  

For example:

1) "Jesus referred to the composite body of his spirit-anointed followers on earth as “the faithful and discreet slave,” or “the faithful steward.” NOT "TRUTH" ANY MORE

2) "He has also appointed the slave “over all his belongings.NOT "TRUTH" ANY MORE

When Author of WT article described FDS by said: "No doctrinal falsehood is “found in their mouths,” then he made false statement despite, must to have knowledge, about previous changes on doctrines and interpretations. But most of all, it is of crucial importance to readers of such articles to recognize and see what falsehood and manipulation coming from magazine's Writing Department (The original text is prepared in English. The Governing Body oversees the activity of the Writing Department at our world headquarters. This department coordinates the assignments of the writers who serve at headquarters and at certain branch offices. Having a diversified writing staff allows us to address multicultural subjects that give our publications an international appeal. (source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102012164 ) 

How can be said, without any shame, that there is no "doctrinal falsehood" in FDS aka GB mouths, when they changes teachings on a regular basis?  

 

3) "Jehovah also blesses the slave class with his holy spirit". QUESTIONABLE IDEA

4) "While Jehovah’s spirit is invisible, what it produces in those upon whom it operates is not." QUESTIONABLE IDEA

5) "Does that not give undeniable evidence that God’s spirit is empowering the slave?" QUESTIONABLE IDEA

What makes points 3,4, and 5 as questionable idea? Few times GB and some of those before them, FDS composite, made clear statement how they are NOT INSPIRED (not always negate this possibility, but recently they did it in clear and sound words). About what they are not inspired? They explained:

1. GB are not inspired

2. WT publications are not inspired.

So, .... in one moment they CLAIM how they have Blesses, Produces, Empowering with -God's Spirit- in sharing spiritual food, doctrines, teachings, instructions, global work, but ...  in another moment they DENIED how they are Inspired by this same -God's Spirit-

 

6)  Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave.

Really  ? :)))) Self-praise and self-deceiving.... with clear intention to deceive you. THINK about! Who have REASON  (reasoning and sound mind) TO PUBLICLY CLAIM  how JHVH and Jesus TRUST ME/US/THEM ??!! 

DO You ever say in comment on meetings, from platform in public talk, in preaching service to people THAT God and Jesus TRUST YOU/ME, so you have to trust all words I told you. 

Well please, who speaking "falsehood" to whom?    :))))

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I noticed 46 "shares" of this comment, Srecko.  Seems to me that people are recognizing GB's hypocrisy enough to pass it on.

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16 hours ago, Witness said:

I noticed 46 "shares" of this comment, Srecko.  Seems to me that people are recognizing GB's hypocrisy enough to pass it on.

Yes, i noticed too that thing Witness. And i'm glad that some people have "that something" to see more and above that what WT offer to members. 

Witness, is it possible to see who or where people sharing articles?

Greetings, wish you all best!

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Fantastic research, well done Srecko. I'm just shocked by it all. If the complete body / every one of the anointed was the Faithful and Discreet Slave, and if God and Jesus did trust them, then why are those 8 men in America, the GB, pretending that only they are the Faithful slave ? 

Those 8 men in America, the GB, have stolen the authority from the other members of the Anointed. The complete number of 144,000 are supposed to be the Bride of Christ. 

And as you say Srecko, the GB cannot decide if they are supposed to be inspired or not. But if definitely looks like they are not inspired and not trusted by God or Jesus, just looking at the lies they tell and mistakes they make. 

The question is though where do we go now ? Does God have a group of people here on this Earth whom i should be amongst ? 

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On 1/3/2019 at 11:52 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

The question is though where do we go now ? Does God have a group of people here on this Earth whom i should be amongst ? 

Pearl Doxsey, an anointed one,  has an article entitled, “Where is the Truth?” on her page.  It is found on the upper right under “Basic Articles”. 

 

She has also made a soundcloud recording concerning why the anointed have been “scattered” in the organization and how the authentic “Mount Zion”/Temple rises and appears in the last days.  Isa 2:2,3  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)

She explains how the anointed Body of Christ ‘works’ under the proper circumstances when they accept only Christ as their Head, and not men.

Both the soundcloud and the article cover numerous scriptures to explain this.  In fact, if you do decide to listen to the recording, you may want to divide it up into a few parts.  She reads the scriptures for you.

 

 

 

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On 1/3/2019 at 6:58 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Witness, is it possible to see who or where people sharing articles?

Greetings to you also, Srecko :)   I really don't know how one could determine who shares, since it seems many who are not members could share anonymously.  This sounds like a question for JW Insider!

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3 minutes ago, Witness said:

This sounds like a question for JW Insider!

I don't know the answer sorry. (maybe FB,Twitter, etc?) Perhaps the "admin" or "The Librarian" would know what counts as a share.

 

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On 1/2/2019 at 11:15 PM, Witness said:

I noticed 46 "shares" of this comment, Srecko.  Seems to me that people are recognizing GB's hypocrisy enough to pass it on.

Heh.... but now,today, is 0 shares, confused i am now :))))

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11 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Heh.... but now,today, is 0 shares, confused i am now :))))

!!!!!

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:59 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Its members remain virgins in a spiritual sense by not defiling themselves with the beliefs and practices of “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. (Rev. 17:5) No doctrinal falsehood is “found in their mouths,” and they remain “without blemish” from Satan’s world. (John 15:19) In the future, the remaining anointed ones on earth “will follow” the Lamb right into heaven.—John 13:36.

Have Watchtower’s “virgins” walked in the path of Christ?  Have they been persecuted by their own leaders just as Christ was?  Have they stood up to faltering teachings and discarded “truth”, labeling it as a lie, just as Jesus boldly told the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil?  John 8:44

Have they been “thrown out of the synagogues” – congregations – on account of upholding Christ?  Have they been judged as spiritually “dead”?

“I have told you this, so that you will not give up your faith. You will be expelled from the synagogues, and the time will come when those who kill you will think that by doing this they are serving GodPeople will do these things to you because they have not known either the Father or me. But I have told you this, so that when the time comes for them to do these things, you will remember what I told you.  John 16:2,3

Have they shared the same “disgrace” as Christ did, among his own people?

Let us, then, go to him outside the camp and share his shame. 14 For there is no permanent city for us here on earth; we are looking for the city which is to come. Heb 13:13,14

Have they rejected the organization and its material strongholds -  a “city” -   that claims it will survive Armageddon? 

As a result of being an outcast, have they experienced this:

A father will be against his son and a son against his father. A mother will be against her daughter and a daughter against her mother. A mother-in-law will be against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”  Luke 12:53

“People will hand over their own brothers to be put to (symbolic) death, and fathers will do the same to their children; children will turn against their parents and have them put to death.”  Matt 10:21

Jesus was speaking to his own people.  How will this be fulfilled among those in the WT?  It is a sign of the end times.  But, Watchtower’s “virgins” appeared to have escaped all of this – already found “blameless”, even though discarded doctrines once preached as truth, are indeed, lies.  It is also certain that if one were to do research, there would be a conflicting teaching about  WT's virgins and their present state,  just as with all topics found on the org’s website. 

“Death”/disfellowshipping  is a result of the rejection of a Wicked Slave and its drunken henchmen – who are the beating heart of the organization.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:1,7,8,11,12,14-17

On the other hand, are these “foolish virgins” allowing themselves to be “trampled’  and muted, by this dual counterfeit power portrayed to be blessed by God?

Wise virgins of “New Jerusalem” have repented for listening to men and their doctrine, that requires revering its idol/organization.  They have accepted instead the leadership of the Father and Christ.  Although they suffer the unrighteous label of disgrace, they gladly leave such oppressive wickedness and drunkenness sourced in the “Harlot”/false prophet’s “wine”/teachings.  Rev 17:1,2; 19:2

You suffering people of Jerusalem,
    you that stagger as though you were drunk,
22 the Lord your God defends you and says,
“I am taking away the cup
    that I gave you in my anger.
You will no longer have to drink
    the wine that makes you stagger.
23 I will give it to those who oppressed you,
    to those who made you lie down in the streets
    and trampled on you as if you were dirt.” 
Isa 51:23

Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3,7

 

Dear JWs, I so wish you would wake up. 

 

 

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I don't think the GB praise themselves as much as is implied here. They have recognized that they have an awesome responsibility caring for the flock. And if they are true believers that the blessings bestowed upon this organization truly come from Jehovah, then this recognition of the seriousness of the responsibility of trying to lead such an organization is a given. They see themselves trying to organize the worldwide work, coordinate the distribution of Bible-based publications, make decisions about serious issues affecting the ministry.

One of the obvious issues is legally establishing the preaching work in an effective manner under the current laws of many countries. When those laws are not in our favor they have pushed to have them changed or clarified such that religious and civil rights are protected. This has helped others, too. There are even cases where those laws are so much against our preaching activities that the GB have devised ways to try to circumvent those laws because we honestly feel they conflict with God's law to preach the good news of the Kingdom. This has sometimes been effective and sometimes not and sometimes we just can't know whether it is or it isn't.

It should be seen that the position of a Governing Body is a natural outgrowth of such a work and such an organization. It makes sense that the Lutheran Church, the Methodist, the Baptists, etc., all have similar groups that act as leaders of their activities. When the GB look back for Biblical precedents, they see the apostles, but do not wish to claim "apostolic succession." So they look for another Biblical precedent, and find one that seems appropriate. Jesus once told about how, in the time of the end that his servants could be likened to a household where the Master had gone for some time, and his return was delayed. It would be easy to imagine the chaos that could overrun a household of servants in such a situation. It would be easy to imagine how some would invariably act faithfully, and some would act unfaithfully. How do employees act when the boss has been away for some time and no one knows if he is returning tomorrow, next week, or next year! Jesus said that  that he would be able to identify who was really a faithful and wise servant, and who was an unfaithful and unwise servant. This would be by the way they acted during the time that the Master was gone.

This illustration seems appropriate because it had traditionally been referenced as far back as Nelson Barbour to hint that he might be that faithful and wise servant. Russell used the same verse to indicate that he himself was that "faithful and wise servant." Personally I don't think it's about any particular leaders at all, it's just a parable showing how easy it would be --due to the apparent delay of Christ's parousia-- to act unfaithfully and unwisely if we aren't putting the interests of the "household of faith" first. It's an illustration that spends a lot more time on the ways that this "servant" might be shown to be UNFAITHFUL rather than focusing on how faithful a particular slave might be. It's about one of the difficulties in remaining faithful, as we walk by faith not by sight, putting faith in the one who is unseen.

This fits Jesus words in related parables:

  • (Luke 18:7-14) . . .Certainly, then, will not God cause justice to be done for his chosen ones who cry out to him day and night, while he is patient toward them? 8 I tell you, he will cause justice to be done to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?” 9 He also told this illustration to some who trusted in their own righteousness and who considered others as nothing: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and began to pray these things to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like everyone else—extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give the tenth of all things I acquire.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing at a distance, was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward but kept beating his chest, saying, ‘O God, be gracious to me, a sinner.’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his home and was proved more righteous than that Pharisee. Because everyone who exalts himself will be humiliated, but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

The irony of course is that the Bible says not to be wise in your own eyes. To most Witnesses if anyone disagrees with the GB on any particular topic, they are accused of becoming "wise in their own eyes." So the fact that the GB are considered "wise" is used as a kind of weapon to "beat" their fellow slaves. It's true that a lot of so called "wisdom" that people put forward about their own view of the Bible and critiques of various doctrines are clearly so far off that it really ought to be brought under some kind of arrangement to produce unity and agreement in our speech and doctrine. And it might seem that the only way to speak in unity about doctrine is to accept some person or small group as the doctrinal authority. For about 100 years in our organization this was always pretty much one person at a time: CTRussell, JFRutherford, FWFranz. So again, it makes sense that a specific person or small group who agree on what is right is the easiest and most logical fallback position - from a human standpoint at least.

Some of what you said is specific and is based on discussions of specific scriptural points. These points are good and should be discussed. But part of this argument seems based on the supposed absurdity idea of a group of imperfect persons, making doctrinal mistakes, could still provide doctrinal and other types of organizational leadership.

I accept that you have pointed out some claims that should not have been made from a scriptural point of view. These should be taken seriously. But I also think that it is natural and expected that a "governing body" of this sort exists, imperfections and all, and is used for a particular purpose that is very close to the current purpose.

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48 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I don't think the GB praise themselves as much as is implied here. They have recognized that they have an awesome responsibility caring for the flock. And if they are true believers that the blessings bestowed upon this organization truly come from Jehovah, then this recognition of the seriousness of the responsibility of trying to lead such an organization is a given. They see themselves trying to organize the worldwide work, coordinate the distribution of Bible-based publications, make decisions about serious issues affecting the ministry.

One of the obvious issues is legally establishing the preaching work in an effective manner under the current laws of many countries. When those laws are not in our favor they have pushed to have them changed or clarified such that religious and civil rights are protected. This has helped others, too. There are even cases where those laws are so much against our preaching activities that the GB have devised ways to try to circumvent those laws because we honestly feel they conflict with God's law to preach the good news of the Kingdom. This has sometimes been effective and sometimes not and sometimes we just can't know whether it is or it isn't.

It should be seen that the position of a Governing Body is a natural outgrowth of such a work and such an organization. It makes sense that the Lutheran Church, the Methodist, the Baptists, etc., all have similar groups that act as leaders of their activities. When the GB look back for Biblical precedents, they see the apostles, but do not wish to claim "apostolic succession." So they look for another Biblical precedent, and find one that seems appropriate. Jesus once told about how, in the time of the end that his servants could be likened to a household where the Master had gone for some time, and his return was delayed. It would be easy to imagine the chaos that could overrun a household of servants in such a situation. It would be easy to imagine how some would invariably act faithfully, and some would act unfaithfully. How do employees act when the boss has been away for some time and no one knows if he is returning tomorrow, next week, or next year! Jesus said that  that he would be able to identify who was really a faithful and wise servant, and who was an unfaithful and unwise servant. This would be by the way they acted during the time that the Master was gone.

This illustration seems appropriate because it had traditionally been referenced as far back as Nelson Barbour to hint that he might be that faithful and wise servant. Russell used the same verse to indicate that he himself was that "faithful and wise servant." Personally I don't think it's about any particular leaders at all, it's just a parable showing how easy it would be --due to the apparent delay of Christ's parousia-- to act unfaithfully and unwisely if we aren't putting the interests of the "household of faith" first. It's an illustration that spends a lot more time on the ways that this "servant" might be shown to be UNFAITHFUL rather than focusing on how faithful a particular slave might be. It's about one of the difficulties in remaining faithful, as we walk by faith not by sight, putting faith in the one who is unseen.

This fits Jesus words in related parables:

  • (Luke 18:7-14) . . .Certainly, then, will not God cause justice to be done for his chosen ones who cry out to him day and night, while he is patient toward them? 8 I tell you, he will cause justice to be done to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?” 9 He also told this illustration to some who trusted in their own righteousness and who considered others as nothing: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and began to pray these things to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like everyone else—extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give the tenth of all things I acquire.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing at a distance, was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward but kept beating his chest, saying, ‘O God, be gracious to me, a sinner.’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his home and was proved more righteous than that Pharisee. Because everyone who exalts himself will be humiliated, but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

The irony of course is that the Bible says not to be wise in your own eyes. To most Witnesses if anyone disagrees with the GB on any particular topic, they are accused of becoming "wise in their own eyes." So the fact that the GB are considered "wise" is used as a kind of weapon to "beat" their fellow slaves. It's true that a lot of so called "wisdom" that people put forward about their own view of the Bible and critiques of various doctrines are clearly so far off that it really ought to be brought under some kind of arrangement to produce unity and agreement in our speech and doctrine. And it might seem that the only way to speak in unity about doctrine is to accept some person or small group as the doctrinal authority. For about 100 years in our organization this was always pretty much one person at a time: CTRussell, JFRutherford, FWFranz. So again, it makes sense that a specific person or small group who agree on what is right is the easiest and most logical fallback position - from a human standpoint at least.

Some of what you said is specific and is based on discussions of specific scriptural points. These points are good and should be discussed. But part of this argument seems based on the supposed absurdity idea of a group of imperfect persons, making doctrinal mistakes, could still provide doctrinal and other types of organizational leadership.

I accept that you have pointed out some claims that should not have been made from a scriptural point of view. These should be taken seriously. But I also think that it is natural and expected that a "governing body" of this sort exists, imperfections and all, and is used for a particular purpose that is very close to the current purpose.

I've had a busy day and being honest can't be bothered to look up scriptures, yes I know that is a bad attitude but it's honest  BUT :-

Jesus said to His apostles (anointed) " You must be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect" (or something close to that) .

Plus, the early teaching was that ALL of the Anointed are the Faithful and discreet slave class.  So what gives 8 basically American men the right to suddenly exalt themselves above all the others ?

Because everyone who exalts himself will be humiliated, but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

And if those 8 mainly American men have to resort to lies and deceit to maintain their authority, then that does not have God's approval for sure. 

And why would God feed them false information ? Why would they get so much wrong ? Why would they 'run ahead' of doing God's will? 

Do you forget the scripture of 'Ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' ?  A spiritual Jew should be recognised by his deeds and be able to prove his position. The GB only prove themselves to be false. 

And i also find it funny when someone 'backs up' what they are saying by saying other people / organisations are also doing it.  What difference does it make what all those false religions are doing ? Isn't your JW Org supposed to be the 'only true' religion. 

It's seems we are back to 'offering children to Molech'. Well other religions were doing it so it must be ok :( .

Yes Spiritual Jews should exist. The Bible makes that clear. BUT, if not the whole body of Anointed then, IMO, 12 or possibly 13 brothers (for obvious reasons) and all from different nations.

One of the points that i was told when told about the Heavenly class being from Earth, was that when in Heaven they would  remember what life was like here on Earth and have Empathy and understanding. Well likewise, if the were from different nations / countries, they would have more empathy and understanding of people from all around the Earth.  

 

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Pearl Doxsey, an anointed one,  Do you know for sure this person is an Anointed One ? 

What proof do you have ?   I'm not about to jump from the frying pan into the fire. 

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24 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Jesus said to His apostles (anointed) " You must be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect" (or something close to that) .

But they weren't were they? Paul admitted failings. Peter admitted failings. Paul chastised Peter, James and John. All of them had wrong ideas. We can think that they got all they needed at Pentecost to make them "perfect." But these failings lasted well beyond Pentecost. So we are forced to take a reasonable approach to what it means to be "perfect." There are scriptural principles which probably explain this saying of Jesus perfectly well in the context of the Christian congregation. For now, I think you will at least agree that the apostles were not perfect. Yet we can still imitate them in ways defined by scripture.

28 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Plus, the early teaching was that ALL of the Anointed are the Faithful and discreet slave class.

And the early teaching was that the great crowd were also anointed. Lately there have been articles that teach that many scriptures which were only recently applied just to the anointed, can now also be applied to the great crowd who have an earthly hope.

30 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So what gives 8 basically American men the right to suddenly exalt themselves above all the others ?

To the extent that they have exalted themselves, they are wrong. To the extent that they have tried their best be servants (a faithful slave class) they have perhaps seemed exalted, too. I don't think this is the criteria by which we accept or reject the doctrines they promote.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

They see themselves trying to organize the ......

I can understand and even accept how "they see themselves" in such role, position, call ....some sort of  leadership is needed for coordinate the work of many people.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

When those laws are not in our favor they have pushed to have them changed 

Such statement reveals hypocrisy of sort (on GB side, not Your's) . Namely, WT  literature explained how is  Strongly Unacceptable that JW members engages in any social change of this Old World, who was alienated and condemned by God. They illustrate this with picture of "sinking ship", and with; Why to try save or improve system that will soon be destroyed by god.

GB Involving in change of Legislative and Law of some Country is more then just looking for "social change", for example; solving medical problems, charity kitchen for poor, shelters for homeless people (or animal) ...etc. GB instructions say NO, for such activity of their members.  

WT qoutes:  When Jesus gave his preaching commission, he did not instruct his followers to preach social or political reforms, union of Church and State, or any other secular ideologyhttps://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012324#h=10  We do not lobby, https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016288#h=36   Reformers try to get society to rethink its approach on issues. They do not just protest; they have ideas about how to improve things...                                                                                                    Yet, Christ did not initiate a campaign ... https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102004202#h=28    

As You said GB "HAVE PUSHED to have them changed". How they Pushed them? Asking for Law Changes. Who can making Law changes? Politicians? I believe how they are involved very much in this process.    

...to be continue :)

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3 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But they weren't were they? Paul admitted failings. Peter admitted failings. Paul chastised Peter, James and John. All of them had wrong ideas. We can think that they got all they needed at Pentecost to make them "perfect." But these failings lasted well beyond Pentecost. So we are forced to take a reasonable approach to what it means to be "perfect." There are scriptural principles which probably explain this saying of Jesus perfectly well in the context of the Christian congregation. For now, I think you will at least agree that the apostles were not perfect. Yet we can still imitate them in ways defined by scripture.

And the early teaching was that the great crowd were also anointed. Lately there have been articles that teach that many scriptures which were only recently applied just to the anointed, can now also be applied to the great crowd who have an earthly hope.

To the extent that they have exalted themselves, they are wrong. To the extent that they have tried their best be servants (a faithful slave class) they have perhaps seemed exalted, too. I don't think this is the criteria by which we accept or reject the doctrines they promote.

But they got it right in scripture and in giving praise to God. Unless you think we shouldn't believe what we read in the scriptures ? 

Quote "And the early teaching was that the great crowd were also anointed. Lately there have been articles that teach that many scriptures which were only recently applied just to the anointed, can now also be applied to the great crowd who have an earthly hope."

It makes me laugh, honestly. How can anyone believe any of it then ? Where is the firm foundation of a religion that keeps changing all it's teachings ?  And more importantly, where is the spiritual guidance ?  It proves there isn't any. 

The Apostles could prove that they had God's support through Jesus Christ, by their works. The GB can prove nothing.

There are lots of religions out there that are Earthwide. Catholics, Muslims, Jews and more. So it's no good saying how well the 'good news' has been spread earthwide, the bad news has been spread even further.  The GB have proved nothing other than they can organise people to spread a message. BUT they keep changing that message to suit themselves. 

The 'light isn't getting brighter' in the JW Org, it's just changing direction and colour constantly. 

 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

They illustrate this with picture of "sinking ship", and with; Why to try save or improve system that will soon be destroyed by god.

I think that the exception has been pretty consistent. It has always been with respect to the primary goal of finding more ways to spread the Kingdom message more efficiently.

  • (Philippians 1:4-7) . . ., 5 because of the contribution you have made to the good news from the first day until this moment. 6 For I am confident of this very thing, that the one who started a good work in you will bring it to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. 7 It is only right for me to think this regarding all of you, since I have you in my heart, you who are sharers with me in the undeserved kindness both in my prison bonds and in the defending and legally establishing of the good news.
  • (1 Timothy 2:1-4) 2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness. 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

JW attorneys have not worked with the goal of fixing this world through better laws and more inclusive civil rights, but I see no reason why this would be condemned. Cases have been argued right up to the supreme court of the United States and in high courts elsewhere with the goal of legally establishing the preaching work. (See especially Covington, Moyle and some more recent cases.)

So while it's true that Jesus did not push for social reform directly, he was concerned about protecting as many as possible from the situation that was about to come upon the lost house of Israel. Paul, however, used political leverage to help establish the preaching of God's Kingdom.

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It makes me laugh, honestly. How can anyone believe any of it then ? Where is the firm foundation of a religion that keeps changing all it's teachings ?  And more importantly, where is the spiritual guidance ?  It proves there isn't any. 

We all have the choices of many possible religions to follow. Or we can follow our own understanding which can be very dangerous. Wisdom is best found in a multitude of counselors.

This organization has not changed all its teachings. But if it had, I can't see how that matters so much unless they are currently lying about all the changes. Still, even if all the teachings have changed over time, this could even be a good sign that a filtering and refining work is going on.

Ultimately, with all the choices, I would still look for a religion that attempts to preach the good news. The content of that preaching might change . . . I would expect it to. But I would still look for a successful worldwide implementation of a preaching work based on the words of Matthew 24:14.  I would also look for a religion that stays out of nationalistic conflicts both internal and external. There are very few religions that promote neutrality and are all conscientious objectors to violence and killing for nationalistic purposes. My own understanding of God and his purpose would make me look for a religion that opposes the Trinity doctrine and opposes the doctrine of Hellfire and eternal torment.

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Jesus said to His apostles (anointed) " You must be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect" (or something close to that) 

Can you explain how a mortal soul can accomplish this? Perfection means a sinless state just as was Christ. Adam and Eve lost that sinless state. How can an imperfect person be perfect?

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This is how the GB explain themselves when stating they are not infallible.

It seems witness keeps misunderstanding the ramification. I guess he believes the Catholic POPE when they state they are infallible.

That’s one good point to trust in God’s spirit direction instead of trusting on your own.

Personally, I wouldn’t trust someone that doesn’t understand scripture and they think they are perfect. This becomes a problem when one shares falsehoods to appease themselves rather than serve Jah.

pope.jpg

papal-infallibility.jpg

So, how would that differ from the criticism given toward the JWorg when people believe the Org spread falsehoods?

Was the Catholic Church wrong when it stopped using soldiers like the crusaders to win a holy war? Does this not mean changes were made? Which church can be side not to change their understanding when a new discovery makes it necessary to adjust previous understanding, such as in language or time?

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