Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, The Librarian said:

This can happen if a title of a topic is changed even slightly. (Because the URL changes and the service tracks via the URL)

Thanks for response, but i don't recall that  i have done any changes in title. But on other hand we all are imperfect ... and technology too :)))

[Srecko Sostar]

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus once told about how, in the time of the end that his servants could be likened to a household where the Master had gone for some time, and his return was delayed. It would be easy to imagine the chaos that could overrun a household of servants in such a situation. It would be easy to imagine how some would invariably act faithfully, and some would act unfaithfully. How do employees act when the boss has been away for some time and no one knows if he is returning tomorrow, next week, or next year! Jesus said that  that he would be able to identify who was really a faithful and wise servant, and who was an unfaithful and unwise servant. This would be by the way they acted during the time that the Master was gone.

If you don't mind i would like to provide little reminiscence about context in comment of your's.

3 What does Jesus’ illustration about the faithful slave mean? In the past, our publications have said the following: At Pentecost of the year 33, Jesus appointed the faithful slave to care for his domestics. Since then, the slave is all anointed Christians as a group who live on earth at any one time. The domestics are these anointed ones as individuals. In 1919, Jesus appointed the faithful slave “over all his belongings,” everything on earth that is used to support the Kingdom preaching work. But after carefully studying this subject, praying about it, and meditating on it, we realized that our understanding of Jesus’ words about the faithful and discreet slave needs to be changed. (Proverbs 4:18) Let us discuss the illustration and how it affects us, whether we have the hope of living in heaven or on earth. source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402013533

Right from the start, it is very important to note what the GB says about how (process) the interpretation of the Jesus words/text has changed. They give this explanation: "But after carefully studying this subject, praying about it, and meditating on it."  

As we clearly see here, there  is no single word about influence by Holy Spirit.They not used phrases as "we have been guided by HS" ,or "we have been motivated by HS" and because influence from God's Spirit we made this (small, big, important, not important) changes.

They just done 3 things that every average and responsible JW member (or even JW kid) doing every day. What is it? A) carefully study Bible, B) pray about, and C) meditate.   !!!!   NOTHING more or less!

But it seems how only GB is authorized to change understanding, globally, for all 8 mil JW members. According to WT credo, single JW is not authorized to change own understanding in this very same process that was described in WT magazine and other places in publications. If JW rank and file member dare to change established and official understanding of some GB doctrines, then he/she will be given a lesson and correction, rebuke or discipline. Confession and repentance are expected, or, he/she  coming  to be an apostate and dangerous individual in spiritual paradise.                                                                                                                                                                                           But when GB doing the same thing, no one of them have to show the humility of this kind. No one is above them to "rebuke" their inappropriate behavior. GB expressed false humility by word "we", but "we" almost always have one meaning - all JW community ...  

... and GB pushing COLLECTIVE FEEL OF GUILT FOR ALL WRONG EXPECTATIONS and WRONG INTERPRETATIONS. 

Now, back to the FDS of Mathew.

 

“IF EVER THAT EVIL SLAVE . . .”

Jesus has given the faithful and discreet slave an extremely important responsibility. He has appointed this slave to care for the domestics and to give out spiritual food at the right time. Jesus said that those with greater responsibility have more expected of them. (Luke 12:48) So he ended his illustration about the faithful and discreet slave with a serious warning.

Jesus warned about an evil slave who believes that the master is taking too long to return and who starts to beat the other slaves. When the master arrives, he will punish that slave in a very severe way.—Read Matthew 24:48-51.

Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the last days? No. It is true that some individuals have shown an attitude similar to that of the evil slave described by Jesus. We would call them apostates, whether they were of the anointed or of the “great crowd.” (Revelation 7:9) But these ones are not an evil slave class. Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning given to the faithful and discreet slave.

Notice that Jesus begins the warning by saying “if ever.” These words show that what Jesus next described would not necessarily happen. It was as if Jesus was saying: ‘If the faithful and discreet slave were ever to treat the other slaves cruelly in these ways, the master would punish him severely.’ (See also Luke 12:45.) But the faithful and discreet slave as a group has continued to stay alert and to give out spiritual food of good quality.

The anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave realize that their Master expects them to take good care of his domestics. These anointed brothers sincerely desire to care for their responsibility loyally so that when the Master finally arrives, he might say to them “well done.”

By this explanation GB class say: In today WTJWorg organization there is no evil slave class. Only some individuals outside of GB class members, will show an attitude similar to evil person slave. 

Well now, what are the Jesus words? Imagination, fantasy, parable, illustration, prophecy, good night story, moral lesson, reality in 1 century, reality for all centuries in future time, impossibly thing to ever happen, exemption only in some rare situations,  ...?   

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

So again, it makes sense that a specific person or small group who agree on what is right is the easiest and most logical fallback position - from a human standpoint at least.

Some of what you said is specific and is based on discussions of specific scriptural points. These points are good and should be discussed. But part of this argument seems based on the supposed absurdity idea of a group of imperfect persons, making doctrinal mistakes, could still provide doctrinal and other types of organizational leadership.

I accept that you have pointed out some claims that should not have been made from a scriptural point of view. These should be taken seriously. But I also think that it is natural and expected that a "governing body" of this sort exists, imperfections and all, and is used for a particular purpose that is very close to the current purpose.

"...logical fallback position - from a human standpoint at least."

Of course, human standpoint is only one we have always with us every day, after all :))) And beside plan a, it is also good to have b,c,d... But in that way of functioning we recognize and confess how points A) carefully study Bible, B) pray about, and C) meditate is mere human process with rarely moments of Inspiration (on single personal level) that come Above.

In GB class case that rare moments of (private level or class level) Inspiration from Above not coming on them at all, because they loudly claiming; "We are not inspired!"

To recall again on what WT magazine has wrote; as individuals, GB members are not FDS, as group who sitting together in one room they are FDS.  

Resume of such WT quotes/statements can be this:

1) as Private Person GB member is as every average JW who have no influence on Organization Moves.

2) as Collective Class GB members are doing the same thing with same result as every average JW member with one exception. And that is siting, reading, praying and meditate and making decisions where and how Organization will go .  

In both case outcome is the same -- "uninspired" decisions.    

I personally would not say how some sort of Inspiration from Above never came on me (in what ever issue). But, such personal feelings is in sphere of own interpretations/speculations what is/was happening. So, it can be true and/or false/illusive. Or some sort of mixed, unknown definition about what we going/went through. And would I made that as credo, doctrine that have to be reality for other people and their lives, about how Bible text come to fulfillment in my/their life?

[JOHN BUTLER]

12 hours ago, FelixCA said:

Can you explain how a mortal soul can accomplish this? Perfection means a sinless state just as was Christ. Adam and Eve lost that sinless state. How can an imperfect person be perfect?

 

Matthew 5 v 48.  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (NWT)

King James Version.  Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. 

Perfection can possibly mean different things to different people, especially to God. 

Adam was created perfect, but he could not fly. If he had jumped off a mountain and tried he would have been in trouble. Does that mean he was not perfect ? I don't think so.  I think being perfect means being perfect for a specific job. 

The Anointed, that is the TRUE REAL Anointed ones, will be perfect for the work that God has for then to do. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

Srecko I love reading your comments. You make sense and talk truth. 

But i am yet to find how to move forward. 

[Srecko Sostar]

17 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Srecko I love reading your comments. You make sense and talk truth. 

But i am yet to find how to move forward. 

:)) do not give up, i am in the  same process

[Anna]

16 hours ago, FelixCA said:

Can you explain how a mortal soul can accomplish this? Perfection means a sinless state just as was Christ. Adam and Eve lost that sinless state. How can an imperfect person be perfect?

 

Not only that, but perfection is relative. 

[Anna]

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

. If JW rank and file member dare to change established and official understanding of some GB doctrines

So you are esentally saying that every Witness should be able to preach their own ideas to other Witnesses, and out on the ministry. How do you envisage that in practice? I mean give us an example of how this would operate.

[Srecko Sostar]

15 minutes ago, Anna said:

So you are esentally saying that every Witness should be able to preach their own ideas to other Witnesses, and out on the ministry. How do you envisage that in practice? I mean give us an example of how this would operate.

What is essence of my little/short essay is to highlight main question: 

WHO can be inspired, guided, motivated to speak and act under The God's Spirit influence? 

 

As a sub-question we can ask further question: 

Does God's Spirit have limitations in the self made choice about, to who he wants to inspire and how he wants to inspire him?

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

So you are esentally saying that every Witness should be able to preach their own ideas to other Witnesses, and out on the ministry.

I know this was to Srecko, but I was thinking the same thing. It's nice to have a unified message. And to answer the next part of your points, I think that this particular forum provides a answer, of sorts, to see the expected results of such an experiment.

It could be chaos, but need not be. All of us can have our own opinions as long as we respect the doctrines promoted by the the Governing Body. The Governing Body would be respected for the number of years they have spent in Bible study and teaching and therefore "worthy of double honor."

There are many ways to manage both personal opinions and respect the currently accepted doctrines held by the majority. One way is for all of us to try to remember to always make sure people know we are expressing our own personal opinion even if we personally have absolutely no doubt about the correctness of that opinion. Many people have already come on this forum in the last few years, presenting themselves as JWs, and all the while making sure predictions about end-time events they expected in the next few months. All of them will surely be just as wrong as everyone else has been for these last 2,000 years.

And if we are just exploring an opinion we should be clear that we are anxious for others to share any clarifying, supporting, or non-supporting evidence to add to the discussion.

The Governing Body should also be willing to express any current doctrine in terms of its probability according to the best evidence they have accepted, and if they are rejecting more evidence than they accept, they should explain their reasons for rejecting the majority of the known evidence. The Governing Body has already done this on several minor teachings, and I always find it refreshing. In other words, every single doctrine we have, need not be expressed as an unchangeable dogma. Everything can be expressed as a current belief based on the evidence we currently accept. There would NEVER be an embarrassment over the past, and the new level of open-mindedness would result in more input from persons who run across new evidence all over the world. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

6 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

i know this was to Srecko, but I was thinking the same thing. It's nice to have a unified message. And to answer the next part of your points, I think that this particular forum provides a answer, of sorts, to see the expected results of such an experiment.

It could be chaos, but need not be. All of us can have our own opinions as long as we respect the doctrines promoted by the the Governing Body. The Governing Body would be respected for the number of years they have spent in Bible study and teaching and therefore "worthy of double honor."

There are many ways to manage both personal opinions and respect the currently accepted doctrines held by the majority. One way is for all of us to try to remember to always make sure people know we are expressing our own personal opinion even if we personally have absolutely no doubt about the correctness of that opinion. Many people have already come on this forum in the last few years, presenting themselves as JWs, and all the while making sure predictions about end-time events they expected in the next few months. All of them will surely be just as wrong as everyone else has been for these last 2,000 years.

And if we are just exploring an opinion we should be clear that we are anxious for others to share any clarifying, supporting, or non-supporting evidence to add to the discussion.

The Governing Body should also be willing to express any current doctrine in terms of its probability according to the best evidence they have accepted, and if they are rejecting more evidence than they accept, they should explain their reasons for rejecting the majority of the known evidence. The Governing Body has already done this on several minor teachings, and I always find it refreshing. In other words, every single doctrine we have, need not be expressed as an unchangeable dogma. Everything can be expressed as a current belief based on the evidence we currently accept. There would NEVER be an embarrassment over the past, and the new level of open-mindedness would result in more input from persons who run across new evidence all over the world. 

Quote "as long as we respect the doctrines promoted by the the Governing Body. "

Worship of the Governing Body then ? 

The Governing Body would be respected for the number of years they have spent in Bible study and teaching and therefore "worthy of double honor."

I wonder how many years the Pope has spent in Bible study ? Does that make him worthy of double honour then ? 

The GB had written in the Revelation Book that it might not be true.  And the GB does keep changing the meanings of scripture to suit themselves. 'Superior authorities', comes to mind. 'This Generation' also comes to mind, so don't pretend that I'm wrong in making this statement. 

People think that I'm full of hate, wrong, I'm full of disappointment. Why ? Because i used to 'respect the doctrines promoted by the Governing Body', and now I see how much of my life I have wasted believing in their lies. 

There are rules in the JW Org, basically keep your mouth shut unless you are praising the GB and the Org.

What that does is create unrest and distrust. Relate it to racism. Here in the UK people are not allowed to express their feelings about 'other races'. What that does is cause some people to boil up inside because they cannot let their feelings be known. There is no release valve. 

This is similar in the JW org, and creates similar results. People become apostate because they have not been allowed to ask questions or given permission to express themselves. People leave the JW Org because they feel dominated. 

Quote "In other words, every single doctrine we have, need not be expressed as an unchangeable dogma."

No maybe not, but if a congregant were to disagree with GB doctrine, they would be strongly reproved and watched, then if they continued to disagree they would be disfellowshipped. 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I mean give us an example of how this would operate.

I can give example of some strange situation in 1 century. Act s 19:1-6 is first that fall on my head :)))

In the course of events, while A·polʹlos+ was in Corinth, Paul went through the inland regions and came down to Ephʹe·sus.+ There he found some disciples 2  and said to them: “Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers?”+ They replied to him: “Why, we have never heard that there is a holy spirit.” 3  So he said: “In what, then, were you baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.”+ 4  Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance,+telling the people to believe in the one coming after him,+ that is, in Jesus.” 5  On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6  And when Paul laid his hands on them, the holy spirit came upon them,+ and they began speaking in foreign languages and prophesying.+

Here we see how some disciple have legal status before God even without some knowledge, information or power to speak or doing things that some other disciple can and in fact they doing.

It is strange that this disciple who learned The Truth from John knew nothing about Holy Spirit. Because John was man who was been inspired and guided by that same Holy Spirit??!! And people around them accepted him as Man from God.

In last part of this verses we see how this Ignorant Disciples began speaking and prophesying under the Power Of Spirit. It is normal conclusion, to me, that this disciples did not know, have no clue what they are speaking and prophesying about. Because in one moment they are those who never heard about HS and in another second they have been INSPIRED, even without own will and wish to be inspired. Paul just laid hand on them.

They have been baptized twice :))) ... very confusing situation how Spirit operates in human reality. John baptized Jesus and many other people. But to accept Jesus, Paul told them they have to be baptized again. Imagine possibility how these disciples were baptized on the same day as Jesus?!  

As you see, i can not give example how Free Spirit will or can operate. All i can do is just/only to make questions about.

[Srecko Sostar]

41 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Everything can be expressed as a current belief

This is very motivating idea for all of us and i see it as result of Free Spirit. :))