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JOHN BUTLER

RECLAIMED VOICES new letter to JW brothers and sisters.

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@Arauna A closer intelligent look at prophecies in the bible shows that the final much needed cleansing period of about 3 and half years has not begun, but will begin very soon.  But the bible also speaks about 2300 days. I am sure that period did not occure during the Second world war as the WT explains. 

And Daniel speaks about the WT headquarters as "the sanctuary, the fortress and the daily feature" that will be profaned. 

Why? That must be allowed to happen because the sins of the WT organiztion. 

Daniel 11:29-31

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3 hours ago, Arauna said:

And broadcasting will just give people like you more ammunition to dissect and accuse.

For people like me it is of any matter/importance would JW broadcasting tell the truth about this subject. But it would be of great significance to/for JW members. 

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Judging means slandering the neighbor,

Talking about child molestation in JWorg is not Judging and not Slandering.

Because .... it is something that was happened in your organization.

:)) 

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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Accusations, accusations of being institutionalized problem.... make up your mind. In previous response you said you are not accusing all of us of being child molesters and condoning this.... 

Problems with lexis Arauna?

adjective
  1. of, relating to, or established by 
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  2. of or relating to organized establishments, foundations, societies, or the like, or to the buildings devoted to their work.
  3. of the nature of an 
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    .

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

ctim of child abuse myself, I have empathy for other

One does not have to have the experience to be able to put yourself in another persons situation.  The fact you have experience can make you too judgmental and emotional and crowd out common sense.  It is not always an asset to have experience of evil  things.  

To insinuate that we do not have empathy reminds me of these transgender people who are always playing the victim card. .....  they officially, according to the new philosophy, cannot discriminate against anyone because they have suffered and been discriminated against - which is most probably the biggest lie ever told to promote transgender politics.  People who have been discriminated against often become the biggest discriminators of others in  other areas....  but they are  blind to their own mistakes.

 

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

roves you do not believe any of the victims

This is not true but I am a realist - I do not expect people to simply believe allegations even if it may be true (allegations are allegations until one has proof) - one needs facts and proof to put someone out of the congregation or in jail. 

You obviously do not understand that this is a world-wide problem and it is a symptom of Satan ruling this world.  It is to a much lesser degree amongst Jehovah's people because we do make an effort to keep the congregation clean.  In other religions one can fornicate and do all kinds of things and get away with it.....  I think you are so filled with bias that you cannot weigh any of the facts in a sensible way.  Other denominations do not have records because they have never made an effort to keep any.... so they do not get negative publicity because they actually have tried to do the right thing.

I watched a documentary recently where a prestigious Jewish school teacher was abusing children and her husband was a rabbi.   The school board  warned her and she fled to israel where she is receiving protection from extradition.  (rabbis and their families are treated like gods).  I will not even go into Islam or some of the charismatic churches....  if you are blind to these abuses which are ingrained and allowed in the religions ....and only focus on JWs who at least make an effort to keep the congregation clean - then you will remain the same and not see any good and any religions.  You can just as well be an atheist - and even they do this. Because I can guarantee you it is in the whole world in every place where there are children.

 

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

but I'm saying God has to clean it out thoroughly now. 

You do not trust Jehovah to do it at the right time?  If you believe he exists and if you know that he is using this organization to do the preaching work - then surely you can believe that he will cleanse it when it needs to have a new cleanse..... he has cleansed it in the past.

I agree with you that Jehovah will start with his congregation first - the people who carry his name.  No one can play with the living God - Annanias and Saphira are a good example of that.....  .

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3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Nevertheless Jehovah used Israel for his purpose....

Yeah.... He made Israel,  used Israel and destroyed Israel several times. Very encouraging, for sure! 

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31 minutes ago, Kosonen said:

. I am sure that period did not occure during the Second world war as the WT explains. 

I write from memory but as far as I remember this refers to the period after Jesus started ruling in heaven during the first world war. Mal 3 refers to the cleansing which took place in this time.

The king of the fortresses after this in Daniel 11  then then stands up (Russia) and the king of the south pushes against him (cold war era).  The last part of verse 40 and 41 - 44 will soon go into fulfillment.   ( I also think that Russia and China have the same imperialistic goals at present).   The west has almost been conquered by the cultural communistic agenda and the One World Government of the UN is starting to rule covertly as we speak. (Look at other headings on this forum such as Migrant compact 2018).They want the full Agenda 2030 to be in place by the year 2030.

The Northern Seleucid king Antiochus IV put Zeus in the temple at Jerusalem and profaned it - this will happen again because they will force all religions to accept the UN god - the old god of the fortresses (UN religion will be forced on us) which will run this system of things.  The morality the UN will prescribe like a bible -  will be the new morality we are starting to see appearing out in the open in gender politics with transgenderism totally accepted and being indoctrinated in universities and schools.   They will expect all religions to accept this as well or face the consequences....it may be at this time that priests, rabbis and imams pretend not to be religious leaders etc.....religion will be unfashionable.     UN will call peace and security and then all hell will break lose.

 

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8 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

used Israel

Israel fulfilled their purpose and Jehovah stayed loyal to them until this was fulfilled.  Jesus only preached to the Jews - so they would have been the kings and priest promised in Exodus 19..... but Jehovah then turned to the nations to produce the Israel of God.

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18 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Other denominations do not have records because they have never made an effort to keep any.... so they do not get negative publicity because they actually have tried to do the right thing.

Please provide hard and indisputable evidences and proves for your statement above. If you can not, you are in fact slandering this Other denominations.  

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Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

evidences and proves for your statement above.

Silly  - how can one provide proof of something that does not exist?   In the Australian enquiry there were no other organizations who said they had records.......... or can you provide proof to the contrary?

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5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

because they have never made an effort to keep any.

proof for this Arauna :)))))

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How demonstrative to think a heretic writes an op-ed and people believe it comes from the Watchtower. The letter itself continues to make the same claim heard over and over again on the internet.

That means the same senseless propaganda continues to circulate to entice the masses, instead of looking at the worldwide problem as it should be, with diligence, not cynicism.

Watchtower faders must be loving this. The most important thing would be, how the government operates, and how their own laws make it a conflicting proposition for those that want genuine justice.

There lies the difference between keeping records and not keeping records. The reality is not one size fits all, but each case is unique and should be handled with caution not with guilty until proven either way guilty or innocent.

A good case of destroying evidence is with a US case in Texas where a priest “murdered” a woman, and the church along with the STATE OF TEXAS concealed the matter. It wasn’t until a reporter found some documents that brought this 57-year-old case back to life. A murder case, with child sexual abuse outcome.

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

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“Assistant District Attorney Mike Garza -- no relation to the victim Irene Garza -- said during trial that a deal was struck following the murder between local law enforcement at the time and officials with the Catholic Church to protect John Feit from prosecution and allow the Church hierarchy to discipline the priest under its own terms.”

Therefore, the only slander I see here is with exJW’s, faders and noneJW’s

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53 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yeah.... He made Israel,  used Israel and destroyed Israel several times. Very encouraging, for sure! 

Sadly today's Jews in general in Israel have not learnt the lesson. The book of Zechariah in the Bible has some prophecies that have still to occure in Israel. 

Zechariah 13:8  “And in all the land,” declares Jehovah,“Two parts in it will be cut off and perish;*And the third part will be left remaining in it. 9  And I will bring the third part through the fire;And I will refine them as silver is refined,And test them as gold is tested.+They will call on my name,And I will answer them.I will say, ‘They are my people,’+And they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God.’”

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2 hours ago, Arauna said:

I write from memory but as far as I remember this refers to the period after Jesus started ruling in heaven during the first world war. Mal 3 refers to the cleansing which took place in this time..

 

I know that the WT org teaches that. But that is not true. Jesus did not begin to rule 1914 and Satan was not thrown down that year. Russell had his predictions about 1914. The end of Satan's system. But he was wrong. Then later Rutherford had to invent something because he still loved Russell's chronology so the following happened: 

-At the 1922 Cedar Point convention Rutherford began teaching that Christ's reign had begun in 1914,[121] and not 1878 as Russell had taught.[122] Rutherford expanded on this view in the March 1, 1925 issue of The Watch Tower in the article "Birth of The Nation", which he later acknowledged "caused a real stir or shake-up within the ranks."[88] In 1927 he moved the date of the resurrection of the "sleeping saints" (all Christians who had died since Jesus' time) from 1878 to 1918[123][124] and as early as 1930 began to dismiss the year 1874 as the date for the invisible presence of Christ in favor of the year 1914.[125][126]   - Wikipedia

 

    Hello guest!

There are several reasons why 1914 can not be a real year of significance in the scriptural perspective.

1. That generation has already disapeared. Overlaping generation doctrine is just nonsense.

2. Satan was to have only a short time left and would be raging until the end. That does not fit 1914 because a long time has already elapsed. 

And instead of life going worse, life has got better almost everywhere on earth since 1914. Antibiotics have saved so many lives since then. And life has got much more cofortable since then and for very many people. And Jehovah's witnesses have enjoyed really good times in the Western world. And have got law protection to be able to freely preach and built kingdom halls. 

So it can not be that Satan was cast down to earth around 1914. The short period Satan gets after he is thrown down to earth is about 3 and half years. That is what all the scriptures about 1260, 1290 and 1335 days are about. Or 42 months and time, times and half a time are about.

Take a look what Daniel wrote about those periods and you will see that that period belong to the ultimate end and not to 1914. Only somebody who is dishonest or very unintelligent would rather put that period back to 1914 rather than to the ultimate end of this system of things after a thorough study.

I don't think they are so stupid at the writing commite or at the GB. Instead they are dishonest and refuse to admit their awful error. Plus all the brothers and sister they have disfellowshiped who has tried to expose 1914-doctrine as an error.

3. So the Great War that now is called the First World War was in fact just an other war. And surely Satan wanted that the so called First World War would be falsely tied to prophecies in the Bible. Who knows if thanks to Russell's chronology Satan organized this war so that the WT organization would be fooled all the way until now more than 100 years.

Satan surely saw that within the WT organization there are truly anointed by God persons, so it would be perfect for him to fool them all with this 1914 deception. And especially delightful it would be for Satan to look at Jehovah's witnesses who claim they are in the truth when they are in the deception. Just delightful for Satan so he can day and night accuse Jehovah's witnesses before Jehovah.

 

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3 hours ago, Arauna said:

The king of the fortresses after this in Daniel 11  then then stands up (Russia) and the king of the south pushes against him (cold war era).  The last part of verse 40 and 41 - 44 will soon go into fulfillment.   

 

That about Russia can not be true neither with arguments presented in the WT literature. Because in Daniel 11 there is a chronological order of events. The WT rightly puts Daniel 11:31 in to the future. So the following scriptures should also be in the future. Look at this statement for example: 

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"16 Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future."

We see that the WT teaches that "the disgusting thing" will be standing in a holy place in the future. But in the same time they want to say that the "disgusting thing" has already been standing on the holy place. Can they not decide how they want to have it? Apparently not, because they feel they have to in some way tie all prophecies as close down to 1914 as possible. 

And the same time they understand that "the disgusting thing standing on the holy place" should follow the pattern of the events in the first century, as stated here:

    Hello guest!

 "Additional prophecies of a disgusting thing. It should be noted, however, that Daniel 11:31-35 and 12:9, 11 connect a ‘disgusting thing causing desolation’ with “the time of the end.” It is reasonable that the development of this latter expression of ‘the disgusting thing causing desolation’ in the time of the end should follow the general pattern of that in the first century C.E., though not being restricted to the land of Israel."

And then WT literature explains :

18 Immediately after coming to power, Hitler launched a vicious attack against “the holy covenant,” represented by the anointed brothers of Jesus Christ. (Matthew 25:40) In this he acted “effectively” against these loyal Christians, cruelly persecuting many of them. Hitler enjoyed economic and diplomatic successes, acting “effectively” in those fields also. In a few years, he made Germany a power to be reckoned with on the world scene.

"20 Hitler soon went to war, as the angel had correctly foretold: “There will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.” (Daniel 11:31a) The “arms” were the military forces that the king of the north used in order to fight the king of the south in World War II. On September 1, 1939, Nazi “arms” invaded Poland. Two days later, Britain and France declared war on Germany in order to help Poland. Thus began World War II. Poland collapsed quickly, and soon thereafter, German forces occupied Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and France. “At the end of 1941,” says The World Book Encyclopedia, “Nazi Germany dominated the continent.”" 

22 “They [Nazi arms] will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature,” said the angel. In ancient Judah the sanctuary was part of the temple in Jerusalem. However, when the Jews rejected Jesus, Jehovah rejected them and their temple. (Matthew 23:37–24:2) Since the first century C.E., Jehovah’s temple has actually been a spiritual one, with its holy of holies in the heavens and with a spiritual courtyard on earth, in which the anointed brothers of Jesus, the High Priest, serve. From the 1930’s onward, the “great crowd” have worshiped in association with the anointed remnant and are therefore said to serve ‘in God’s temple.’ (Revelation 7:9, 15; 11:1, 2; Hebrews 9:11, 12,24) In lands under his control, the king of the north profaned the earthly courtyard of the temple by relentlessly persecuting the anointed remnant and their companions. So severe was the persecution that “the constant feature”—the public sacrifice of praise to Jehovah’s name—was removed. (Hebrews 13:15) Despite horrible suffering, however, faithful anointed Christians together with the “other sheep” kept on preaching during World War II.—John 10:16.

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 (The obove quote)

But this is so wrong, Germany did not cause the profanation of the "sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature" in  USA. And the scripture is talking about arms not against nations like Poland but arms against the sanctuary, the fortress associated with the sanctuary and the constant feature or sacrifice.

Shortly, the WT should rewrite all the explanations to prophecies they have applied to the last 100+ years. And come up with the true explanations. 

Even most churches are wise enough to understand that the 1260 etc days belong to the final years before Christ Jesus' return. How stupid can the WT leadership really be?

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6 hours ago, Kosonen said:
5 hours ago, Arauna said:

or can you provide proof to the contrar

. I am sure that period did not occure during the Second world war as the WT explains. 

You please provide evidence to the contrary! 

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2 hours ago, Kosonen said:

his predictions about 1914. The end of Satan's system. But he was wrong.

Oh dear - So the events of 1914 and the history just gets thrown out by an expert who is not truly an expert.  Sorry....  I am not arguing about this.   I know the history too well to be impressed by your aberrations.

What you guys do not realize is that the image of the beast has already started ruling behind the scenes and the devastation will soon be upon us when the UN (the image of the beast) openly does what it wants. 

Will  all the virgins have their lamps filled with Jehovah's spirit oil or will they have their own oil which does not burn and give light to them.......  and death dealing to those who listen to them.  (5 virgins are the anointed who were not ready) and war mongering because they cannot have the cake and devour it?

Thanks - but no thanks.....  I do not agree with you...  I think a generation can be 120 years.   The last generation in Noahs day was 120 years. ... and Jehovah compares the flood to the last days of this system..... 

Soon we will see the true face of Satan when his people openly start ruling the world.  Everything is already in place while 5 virgins are sleeping....

 

 

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11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As a victim of child abuse myself

What justice did you get?

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2 hours ago, Arauna said:

You please provide evidence to the contrary! 

Hi dear sister Arauna, 

I understand that the information I provided overwhelmed you. At the meetings during 2 decades there would not be as much new light as I just posted.

And I see that you as all other witnesses feel very unsure about how to understand, let alone explain all the scriptures about 1260, 1290, 1335 days and 42 months and time, times and half a time.

I think you would appreciate what I wrote today if you first really tried to fully comprehend the WT literatures explanations. I know you will come into a dead end because those explanations do nor add up. But give it a serious try and pray Jeahovah to make you understand. And see if you will be able to understand. 

But a simple alternative  I will present here:

Daniel 12:6 “How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?”.........“It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time.* As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end,+ all these things will come to their finish.”

11  “And from the time that the constant feature*+has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place,+ there will be 1,290 days.12  “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation*and who arrives at the 1,335 days!

Daniel 11:31  And arms* will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary,+ the fortress, and remove the constant feature.*+“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.+

Daniel 7:25  He will speak words against the Most High,+ and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.*+ 26  But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely.+27  “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One.+ Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,+ and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’28  “This is the end of the matter. 

So Aruna where do you see the 1260, 1290, 1335 days/time, times and half a time are placed in these scriptures? Is it not right before Christ's millenial rule?

 

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      Reclaimed Voices, a foundation set up in the Netherlands to denounce sexual abuse by Jehovah's Witnesses, received 46 reports of abuse in just a week's time. The number of reports is shocking, Frank Huiting, one of the founders and himself a victim of sexual abuse in a closed Jehovah's Witnesses community as a child, said to broadcaster NOS. 
      The foundation was launched just over a week ago, based on Huiting's own experiences. He was abused from the time he was seven year's old. When Huiting told his parents, they decided not to report it to the police. An elder in the community advised against it. "Then there will be headlines in the newspaper and we don't want that."
      According to the Reclaimed Voices initiators, victims within the closed Jehovah's Witnesses community are not heard and perpetrators are left to continue unchecked. Over the past week, foundation employees heard stories from a number of people who were abused by Jehovah's Witnesses. "The fact that so many reports have come in actually says enough. There are at least hundreds of cases in the Netherlands that should actually come out", Huiting said, according to NOS. He added that so many victims are too afraid to come forward.
      The main purpose of Reclaimed Voices is to be a listening ear. The employees urge victims to speak out, and hope that they also report the abuse. "People walked around with this secret for years. And the fact that they are coming out, can be a relief for them. That was also my experience. We also want to advise them to seek professional help. Also outside the religious community, for example with a social worker, psychologist or general practitioner", Huiting said.
      The foundation aims to collect as man reports of sexual abuse as possible and present them to the board of Jehovah's Witnesses Netherlands and the Dutch government. "We want to get the government to investigate these abuses. And not to start a fight, but really to focus on the victim."
      Earlier this year Dutch newspaper Trouw spoke to a number of people who were sexually abused as children in the Jehovah's Witnesses community. One victim described the religious society as a "paradise for pedophiles". 

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