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    • By Anna
      Something I thought might be relevant since we are studying the God's Kingdom book. Not long ago, in a WT article, it was mentioned in reference to the "Kingdom being preached in all the inhabited earth" that this will not mean that literally everyone on Earth would have heard about the Kingdom before Armageddon starts.
      When one does a bit of mathematics (not my forte) and calculates the percentage of current Jehovah's Witnesses in comparison to the World's population we arrive at 0.1%. This is a very small percentage indeed. (8 million JW to 8 billion population)
      If we were to assume some averages, and use the United States as a fair example, then we can assume the ratio of 1 publisher to roughly around 400. This seems a fair number since "only a few are the ones finding the road to life". However, as we know, there is practically a non existent ratio when it comes to India and China, two of the world's countries with a population of over 1billion each (the majority of whom have never heard of the Bible, never mind Jehovah's Witnesses).  If we would assume the same ratio of 1:400, then this would immediately create over 3 million Witnesses in each of the two countries, i.e. over 6 million in India and China alone, bringing the total of JWs to over 14 million. If we were to also add 650 thousand in Indonesia, 485 thousand from Pakistan, and 402 thousand from Bangladesh that adds another 1.5 million bringing the total to over 15 million, almost doubling the Witnesses today.
      If we go by the fact that all people are equal in Jehovah's eyes, and that no nation is above another when it comes to salvation, and that all people are basically the same, then we have to assume that there are people in those countries who, if given the chance, would embrace the truth and put themselves on Jehovah's side and create that ratio of 1:400.
      With that in mind, it is evident that either there is going to have to be a lot of preaching done, verging on the miraculous, in order to bring in over 7 million new Witnesses within the allotted time of the "Generation", or, Jehovah will judge their hearts and allow nearly HALF of the people, (agnostics or believers in false Gods) entry into the new world without them even needing to know him.
      Or, is "this Generation" a lot longer than we think.....
      Any scriptural thoughts?
       
    • By JW Insider
      Even before C.T.Russell was born, commentaries on Bible prophecy included  dozens of potential dates. Nearly 200 years ago, a couple of them even included 1914 as potentially significant time period. The "1914 presence" doctrine, however, is only about 75 years old.
      All the ideas behind the Watch Tower's version of the 1914 doctrine have already been discussed for decades now, and all of them, so far, have been shown to be problematic from a Scriptural point of view. Since the time that the doctrine generally took its current shape in 1943, the meanings and applications of various portions of Matthew 24 and 25 have already been changed, and the timing of various prophesied events and illustrations have changed. Most recently, the meaning and identification of the "faithful and discreet slave" has changed. And the definition of "generation" has changed about half-a-dozen times. This doesn't mean that the current understandings are impossible, of course, only that it has become less likely from the point of view of reason and reasonableness.
      Besides, for most of the years of teaching this doctrine, we have had the flexibility of extending the "1914 generation" from a possible 40 years, up to 70, then 75, then 80 years. And this has been applied to teenagers who saw 1914, 10-year-olds who saw 1914, then even newborns who saw 1914. With every one of these options already tried and stretched to their limits, we finally were forced to convert the meaning of generation from its most common meanings and give it a new "strained" meaning that has no other Biblical parallel. (See Exodus 1:6; Matthew 1:17; 16:4; 23:36; Luke 11:50)
      But that flexibility is still seen as the last reason for hope that the Watch Tower Society might have still been correct in hanging on to 1914. Since the Bible says that a lifespan is 70 or 80 years and 1914 + 80 = 1994, the "generation" doctrine in its original form (1943) could remain stable until about 1994. Of course, a lifespan could technically reach to 120 years or more, and Gen 6:3 even gives vague support to the idea that the "1914 generation" could last 120 years, until 2034.
      The current alternative solution is to make the generation out of the length of two lifespans, which technically could be double 120 years, or nearly 240 years from 1914. That would have had the potential to reach to the year 2154 (1914+240) except for the caveat that it can, by its new definition, only refer to anointed persons who discerned the sign in 1914 and whose lives overlapped (technically, by as little as one second) with the lifespan of another anointed person representing the second group. If persons from each group don't really discern their own "anointing" until age 20, for example, this would effectively remove 40 years from the overall maximum. 1914+120-20+120-20 = 2114. We could also assume a possible lifespan of more than 120 years, but otherwise, the new two-lifespan generation could potentially make the generation last 200 years. This "technical maximum" is not promoted currently, because for now we look at examples like Fred Franz who was part of that original generation already anointed and who saw the sign, and the typical example of an anointed brother who was apparently "anointed" prior to Franz' death in 1992 would be someone like Governing Body member, Brother Sanderson, who was born in 1965, baptized in 1975, and was already a "special pioneer" in 1991. His is currently 52.
      However, the generation problem is just one more problem now which we can add onto the list of all the other points that make up the 1914 doctrine. Here are several points related to 1914 that appear problematic from a Scriptural point of view:
      All evidence shows the 1914 date is wrong when trying to base it on the destruction of Jerusalem. (Daniel 1:1; 2 Chron 36:1-22; Jer 25:8-12; Zech 1:12, 7:4; Ezra 3:10-13) Paul said that Jesus sat at God's right hand in the first century and that he already began ruling as king at that time. (1 Cor 15:25) Jesus said not to be fooled by the idea that wars and rumors of wars would be the start of a "sign" (Matt 24:4,5) Jesus said that the "parousia" would be as visible as lightning (Matt 24:27). He spoke against people who might say he had returned but was currently not visible. (Matt 24:23-26) Jesus said that his "parousia" would come as a surprise to the faithful, not that they would discern the time of the parousia decades in advance. (Matt 24:36-42) Jesus said that the kingdom would not be indicated by "signs" (Luke 17:20, almost any translation except NWT in this case) The "synteleia" (end of all things together) refers to a concluding event, not an extended period of time (Matt 28:20) Jesus was already called ruler, King and even "King of Kings" in the first century. (1 Tim 6:15, Heb 7:2,17; Rev 1:5; 17:14) Wicked, beastly King Nebuchadnezzar's insanity and humiliation does not represent Jesus as the "lowliest one of mankind." (Heb 1:5,6; 2:10,11; Daniel 4:23-25; cf. Heb 2:7; 1 Pet 3:17,18) The demise of a Gentile kingdom cannot rightly represent the time of the rise of the Gentile kingdoms (Daniel 4:26,27) The Gentile kings did not meet their demise in 1914. (Rev 2:25,26) The time assigned to the Gentile Times that Jesus spoke about in Luke 21:24 is already given as 3.5 times, not 7 times (Revelation 11:2,3) The Devil was already brought down from "heaven" in the first century. (1 John 2:14,15; 1 Pet 5:8; Luke 10:18; Heb 2:14) The Bible says that the "last days" began in the first century. (Acts 2:14-20; 2 Tim 3:1-17; 1 Peter 3:3-5; Heb 1:2, almost any translation except NWT in this case.)
    • By Patrick J Delaney
      After much prayerful reflection on the Scriptures, I have come to the realisation that the true identity of the “generation” Jesus spoke of at Matthew 24:34 may soon be revealed. There Jesus said, “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” I think the understanding JehovahÂ’s Witnesses currently hold on this scripture is incorrect. I believe that Joel chapter 2 will have a second fulfillment in the last days of this complete world system, just as it had a primary fulfillment in the last days of the Jewish system at Pentecost 33 CE. At that time true Christians were sealed with Holy Spirit. I believe that there will be yet another true spirit anointing or sealing in the near future. This is what John was referring to when he spoke of the sealing of the 144,000 in revelation chapter 7. The spiritual Israelite nation must be reborn. (Isaiah 66:8). The great crowd mentioned in the same chapter belong to the same group but are seen standing before the throne after Armageddon coming out of all nations. This sealing will result in a true restoration of pure worship as indicated by EzekielÂ’s prophecy of the valley of dry bones. (Ezekiel 37). Jehovah blows his spirit into the bones and they live. The preaching work up to now could be compared to the work of John the Baptist. It is a baptism of repentance for forgiveness of sins. By their actions JehovahÂ’s Witnesses prove themselves to be true Christians having repented of their sins. Yet they are not spirit anointed. I believe Jehovah is preparing them for a true spirit anointing. Their understanding of scripture will be refined. (See Malachi 3:1) The great worldwide preaching work, in fulfillment of the the “angel flying in mid heaven with everlasting good news to declare” is yet future. (Revelation 14) The fulfillment of the prophecies in Matthew 24, and other related prophecies concerning the last days find their real fulfillment in the future. The last days have not yet begun. Jesus told his followers to “Learn from the fig tree when itÂ’s branch grows tender and puts forth leaves.” (Matthew 24:32-34). The fig tree represents Israel. I believe that this illustration could be a referring to the spiritual Israelite nation blossoming forth beginning with an outpouring of Holy Spirit. At least some of the generation of Christians that witness the birth of this new spiritual nation will be still alive on earth to witness the end of the age. This outpouring of Holy Spirit may occur in the very near future.
       
       
       
    • By gfnslave
      So, I am reading in Matthew about how many generations there we're from the deportation from Babylon until the Christ, 14 generations. The way I do math 607 divided by 14 equals 43.3 years. This is how Scripture measures a generation.The way I see it since 1914 we have had 2 complete generations and are now working on a 3rd. According to Jesus shouldn't the end have come by now?
       
    • By Kurt
      Why did Jack cry? Maybe it was because he realized the old will get young again....JWs do have the Truth...and soon everyone will see that.....
    • By PeterR
      So if this is the basis for your belief, then probably what you'll want to do is first of all find out which bible book your foundational scripture is in. (It's Exodus by the way.)
       
      Ex 1:6 - Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers and all that generation.
       
      It's not a complicated scripture.
      Let me ask you this. If you die in 2017 and all your brothers and all your generation also die at some point, what does "generation" mean if you don't impose any weirdness on the text? Do your precise birth and death times change the fundamental meaning of the word generation?
      Of course there are overlaps in a "generation". The only possible way for there not to be overlaps would be for each generation to have a batch of children be born at the same minute of a certain year, and die at a simultanous minute of a later year.
      But does your grandfather suddenly become part of your generation just because your life overlapped with him? Does that overlap of a few years between you and your brothers give latitude to distort the language to allow for President Kennedy to be of your generation even if your life overlapped with him?
       
       
       
       
    • By PeterR
      You would be asking the wrong question Anna.
      You need to ask him whether someone could be disfellowshipped for NOT believing it after baptism.
      If he says no, he is either misinformed, forgetful, or lying.
      Now I grant you, not every elder will apply the letter of the law (although in a JC it's more likely because of the group dynamics). But that there are procedures in place to allow for DF'ing someone who refuses to believe in particular teachings is very real.
      Let me ask you Anna - if I could prove beyond doubt that this was true would you accept it, or would you continue to make light of it?
      If you are determined to see only what you want to see I have no agenda to change that. But I can assure you that I do not speak from a position of ignorance or partial information in this regard.
    • By Outta Here
      Since 2009 there has been a great deal of discussion around the concept of an "overlapping generation" in connection with Jesus words at Matt. 24:34.
      I don't see anything particularly difficult about the idea myself. 
      I mean, you have a two stage relay. Start point: 1914 CE on one end. Finish point: the "great tribulation" on the other end. The track between is the stream of time.
      As it is impossible for one team of runners to span the distance from the start, 1914 CE, to the finish, the "great tribulation", there are two teams of "anointed" Christians. Starting the race, those who saw the year 1914 eventually meet up with those (born later) who will see the outbreak of the great tribulation. The baton is passed and the race completed by the second group.
      The entire group are seen as the (anointed) generation of the last days in Jesus prophecy. Not really rocket science is it?
      But, in all the discussion around this, I see a phrase in Jesus words at Matt 24:34 I find intriguing. He said that "this generation will by no means pass away"  (NWT)
      Other translations render this differently, many saying simply "will not pass" or words to that effect. Why does the NWT render it in this particular manner?
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    • Kinda reminds me of a ringer. No! No! No! Don’t try to turn the table. It’s all about you and your accusations and being absolute. I have no one to impress. However, I don’t know if you understand what disclosure means. Maybe you’re not bound by laws, I am. Although when Barbara Anderson sued the Watchtower she lost. Did he tell you? Maybe you should dig deeper in your research. What you're saying, Jesus gave you that solid proof. Are you Joseph Smith? Work on your own grammar mistakes before you criticize someone else.  
    • César Chávez said:     Quite so. And since they are all truthful (except for Bowen), as opposed to JW leaders and their Writing Department, not believing them is not believing facts. Do you have any factual, logical reasons not to believe these people? They set forth all manner of indisputable facts. What can you offer? How do you know the allegations are false? Did God tell you? No, that's just one piece of evidence. The most solid piece is that the GB saw fit to remove him from the GB and reassign him to duty in the UK. Or do you have information that is more believable than what the GB based their actions on? Even if Jesus himself gave you that evidence, you most likely would not believe it. Two completely different situations. JW apologists, especially on this forum, routinely defend the GB only with emotionally based arguments, not facts and logical reasoning. As for proof, describe what sort of proof you would accept. When you try to nitpick you'd better be sure your nitpicks are on the money. Yours are not. What I said was (note the 's' on the end of 'apologists'): << The self-righteous JW apologists on this forum are pitiful. >> A lesson in English (I think this applies in Spanish, too): A word like "apologists" is plural. Plural words are normally accompanied by "are" not "is". Comprende? Anna said: Well then, it won't have any GB members in it, past or present, who demand virtual worship from JWs. Or the many JW apologists who lie through their teeth to defend Mommy Watchtower. Back in 1994, in a conversation with GB member Albert Schroeder, I challenged him with a text from Luke that obviously condemned JW end-times teaching. He was blindsided. His defense? "That scripture can't apply to us, because we're Jehovah's people!" Wow! Defending Watchtower teaching by denying that the Bible applies to JWs. That hypocrisy is endemic to the JW religion. LOL! Coming from someone who NEVER contributes anything of value, that's rich!
    • Sigh.... He’s back. Arguing with every single point, as was his wont, even the ones inconsequential to the thread—like the retort to the unreasonably chatty greeting from JWI with mention of concern of his atheism.  This is the fellow that The Librarian told me privately, “Please stop arguing with Alan.” She knew what I was then finding out—that under no circumstances will he ever yield the final word. I did stop, and sure enough, he went away. But he’s back. Leading off with an insult to Trump, no less, though it has absolutely nothing to do with anything, and will likely fall flat to an apolitical audience, and those not apolitical will divide 50/50, so that he will unnecessarily antagonize some that he is trying to convince. Still he must get it in, and thus reveals—much as I hate to attribute wisdom to @James Thomas Rook Jr. that he has full-blown TDS and identifies with the leftists. He’s back. Oozing with contempt for anyone with whom he disagrees: “So are you claiming you don't worship the Governing Body? Don't let your fellows know, or you'll be disfellowshipped for apostasy,” he taunts.   
    • Something like what you are doing? What you are saying, witnesses should believe ex-witnesses. How does that make sense? Why should I believe anything an Ex-GB had to say in his book? Then you have no proof. Why should anyone believe anything you have to contribute? More hearsay. However, I know of your affiliation with AD1914 CARM. It doesn't impress me one bit.  I have. I also know many cases have been overturned. So how about giving some concrete evidence instead of dead talking points? I believe you were directing your comment to AlanF in which case I responded to. I think you need to put on your spectacles sister if you think I was talking about you. Don't be so quick to judge when you have erred.   New International Frontiers in Child Sexual Abuse 2019 Theory, Problems and Progress General Prevalence The reported prevalence of CSA continues to be disturbingly high. A recent meta-analysis found high levels of victimisation in most nations for both girls and boys; globally, 1 in 8 children (12.7%) had suffered CSA, with rates of 18% for girls and 7.6% for boys (Stoltenborgh et al. 2011). Even in the USA, where substantial efforts have been dedicated to prevention for several decades, and where there is some evidence to indicate a decline in recent years, the most recent national study found that 21.7% of all 14- to 17-year-olds reported experiencing some form of sexual victimisation in their childhood, and in the past year, 16.4% of girls and 9.4% of boys aged 14–17 reported such an experience (Finkelhor et al. 2015). These data included 12.9% of girls and 5.1% of boys aged 14–17 reporting they had experienced attempted or completed rape. A national study from 2006 in the USA found 4.5% of participants reported experiencing contact CSA by a parent or adult caregiver, before sixth grade (Hussey et al. 2006).  Developing Nations In Yemen, where there are no laws setting an age for marriage or criminalising rape in marriage, families made desperate by war and hunger are selling their daughters as child brides. Child brides are exposed to daily rape and beating (Youssef 2017). The market in China for trafficked and enslaved child brides from other countries such as Myanmar is growing (Baker 2017). Despite recent progress, child marriage remains a massive problem, with an estimated 700 million women alive today being married as a child.  Western Nations In Western nations, this problem is exemplified by recent selected events in the USA, France, Australia, and the UK. In the USA, a substantial number of states have amended civil statutes of limitation to give survivors of child sexual abuse a more reasonable amount of time in which to commence civil legal proceedings for compensation for their injuries. However, many other states, including Massachusetts, New York, and Pennsylvania, have resisted reform, influenced by powerful institutions – most notably the Catholic Church and Agudath Israel of America. Some have described the strategies used by the Catholic Church as “mafia-like” (Kirchgaessner 2016).  England In England, a number of scandals have been revealed regarding organized criminal gangs that have been operating with impunity for years on a mass scale, with a succession of revelations of entire towns being epicentres of CSA. In these cases, the criminal gangs have comprised exclusively or mostly men from British-Asian backgrounds, with this thought to have been one factor influencing authorities’ reluctance to intervene due to a fear of being perceived as racially motivated.  Definition of the Concept In Chap. 2, I will cover in much more detail the complex problem of defining the term “child sexual abuse”. It is a contested concept, and different definitions have been used in research, policy, epidemiology and law. Child sexual abuse is generally understood at a minimum to include a range of acts covering penetrative abuse, masturbation, oral sex, fondling, and involvement in pornography, and other acts to sexually gratify the abuser in circumstances where the child cannot or does not give true consent. The World Health Organization (1999, 2006) states child sexual abuse occurs when the child is involved “in sexual activity that he or she does not fully comprehend, is unable to give informed consent to, or for which the child is not developmentally prepared and cannot give consent, or that violate the laws or social taboos of society”.
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