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FOUR problems with latest "GENERATION" teaching

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38 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is the crux of the matter. Jehovah's people have signed on for being "taught by Jehovah." That is almost certainly going to be "from the top down." Your preferred alternative, "from the bottom up" would be Jehovah being "taught by us."

Not necessarily. Remember that Jesus said the first would be last and the last first. He who would be your "leader" should be your servant. So who's to say that the order is not Jehovah teaching us, and then through some form of discussion and feedback, ALL of us feed the faithful slave, who then, have the "menial" slave-like duty of distributing whatever we have agreed upon. As in the book of Acts, there might be "no little dispute" about some matters. But those matters would really be few and far between. As persons have already pointed out, there would never be a need to make up a decisive explanation that everyone must believe on a specific point of interpretation. Just report on the most likely possibilities, and explain why they are possible or probable. There has never been a reason for the Watchtower to stick its neck out and say that something must mean a certain thing that later had to be changed. All those changes were unnecessarily brought upon ourselves by being presumptuous. 

Of course, this sounds terrible and awful and unworkable to most of us, but there is a Scriptural idea behind it.

In Matthew 24, the faithful slave is not really a "position" at all in the Christian congregation, or the Bible would have mentioned it. It mentions elders and ministerial servants and evangelizers and prophets, etc. This is one reason we know that the illustration is merely an example of how, like house servants, all of us should do what we can for each other in an orderly manner even though the Master is delayed in returning. We need to keep the household running smoothly by continuing in our assignments without distraction, and without anyone deciding that they need to take over and create a special form of leadership. The lesson could very likely be the very opposite of the lesson that the Governing Body is currently taking form the parable.

But even so, let's say that it really was a lesson about who is distributing the spiritual food to the household of faith. Fine. Then who is creating and preparing that food to be distributed, while the parousia seems delayed? Who is tentatively taking the place of the "master" of the house in deciding what things should be distributed?

I quoted the scripture earlier:

  • (Matthew 13:52) 52 Then he said to them: “That being the case, every public instructor who is taught about the Kingdom of the heavens is like a man, the master of the house, who brings out of his treasure store things both new and old.”

So it's everyone who is out there teaching about the Kingdom of God. You and me, and every "publisher," and elder, and ministerial servant, and pioneer. Every sister and brother in the congregation who teaches publicly and from house to house. These are the ones taking the place of the "master of the house" who can instruct the "faithful slave" in what to distribute as spiritual food. 

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16 hours ago, Jaocb said:

They also made other comments that i think will be picked up and used by apostates in the coming years when things dont develop as quickly as we thought.

The trick is to make so many that they will choke on them all.  :)

16 hours ago, Jaocb said:

. I thik it is significant that WWI started in 1914. Its a major coincidence and the world acknowledges taht the world as we know it changed. I don't have to pull references form a Watchtower to find them. It was in my history book. I've seen these references in numerous publications that I read casually. THe world changed in 1914.

The first time the entire world goes to war (peace taken away from the earth) AND the end of the Gentile Times coincide, and it is 'just one of those things?' Like you, I think not. I posted once how a great hobby would be collecting 1914 quotations. Many more were offered in my comment section: 

    Hello guest!

You could even make a case that all the wavering over 1914 is succumbing to a giant head fake, like the Israelites with their fronts up to the Red Sea and Pharaoh bearing down on them.

16 hours ago, Jaocb said:

Jehovah's Witnesses constantly Getting it Wrong!

It's sarcasm, I know. All that you said was concise and spot-on. Why should I say it again.

16 hours ago, Jaocb said:

JEhovah's pitiful Witnesses are not afraid of the ridicule. They believe that God will grant understanding and they press on. They simply have faith that God will vindicate them for their efforts and expose those who lack faith in God's Word!

Yes!! This even harkens back to something @JOHN BUTLER said about believing without knowing all the details. Nobody would ever do anything with that requirement thrown in. There would be no businesses started, inventions begun, or explorations embarked upon.

One never knows it all. It is enough to see that the basic framework  holds and trust that elucidation will be found along the way.

16 hours ago, Jaocb said:

I do believe Jehovah's WItnesses are approaching the end of their rope. If Jesus doesn't come soon, it will be the end of our religion! 

Yes. A giant head fake at the end. Backs to the wall. It has happened many times in Bible history, and a few times since.

I like the quote from this week's Watchtower study about Habakkuk: "[Jehovah] kindly asks us to trust in him and await patiently for his appointed time..." That doesn't sound too demanding, does it? That doesn't sound too unaccepting of human frailty, does it?

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45 minutes ago, Jaocb said:

Much of what @JW Insider says is not constructive. he  is just blowing wind. I like him. I think he is trying to be honest, but he is like a person who likes to talk.

Fair enough. I think it's true that we haven't yet gotten to much that is constructive on this particular topic. But, as there is a time to tear down and a time build up, it probably doesn't make much sense to offer an alternative yet, while so few have tried to explain what's wrong with the current teaching. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as they say.

As far as "liking to talk" goes, guilty. But I would hope it's that way based on the scripture quoted earlier: "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." Still, I would hope that some would see all this talk as a labor of love and concern, and even see it for it truly is, in my mind, loyalty to our brotherhood.

55 minutes ago, Jaocb said:

Much of what he says is irrelevant or blind due to his own biases.

I could tell that going back to Russell's view on the signs in the sun, moon and stars seemed irrelevant to you. I'm guessing that you are seeing too many things tied together under a single topic and that many of the items you have seen as off-topic have made it difficult to deal with so many items at once. But it's really true that a misunderstanding of 1914, and a misunderstanding of the "sign" is the foundation issue that, when resolved, resolves the whole "overlapping generation" issue with it.

The fact is that Russell understood Jesus point about NOT looking for a sign. Russell made it clear that wars, earthquakes, and famines were NO part of a sign. He understood this. And that understanding makes sense in the context of the rest of Matthew 24. You won't need a sign if it's going to come without any further warning, like a thief in the night, at an hour you do not think to be it. But the tendency to want a sign, in spite of Jesus counsel, overtook Russell and the Bible Students and they continued to believe in those heavenly signs, as if they were already progressing.

The exact dates were not important, except to show that they fit the idea of "last days" at the time. But the idea that they could find dozens of secular quotes in support of these dates could be another lesson for us. What they missed, however, is that these quotes were not being collected in support of the Bible's warning about looking for a sign. I think we do the same thing today when we collect 1914 quotes. We are trying to overcome the Bible's clear warning not to look for a sign in things like wars, earthquakes, famines, etc. And we end up convincing ourselves.

 

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"[Jehovah] kindly asks us to trust in him.  " Yes of course. 

But do not get mixed up. The words are,  JEHOVAH kindly asks us to trust in HIM. 

The words are NOT  trust in the GB of JW org.  

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41 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

As far as "liking to talk" goes, guilty.

Uh oh. I sure hope one does not get tossed in the crapper for THAT indiscretion. 

I appeal to Scripture for support!!

“For the [true] God is in the heavens but you are on the earth. That is why your words should prove to be few.” (Eccles 5:2)

Oh, wait. Not THAT scripture.

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17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I appeal to Scripture for support!!

  • (Proverbs 10:19) . . .When words are many, transgression cannot be avoided, But whoever controls his lips acts discreetly.

Better?

Maybe this is as close as we can get to anything positive about many words, imitating the congregator.

  • (Ecclesiastes 12:9, 10) . . .he pondered and made a thorough search in order to compile many proverbs. 10 The congregator sought to find delightful words and to record accurate words of truth.
  • (Acts 2:40) 40 And with many other words he [Peter] gave a thorough witness . . .

     

 

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On 1/18/2019 at 2:13 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

I'm noticing a lack of response from others here. 

I'm not responding coz I'm sick in bed, and can't use my laptop coz it would mean I would have to unplug it, and the battery is dead so it would take ages to reboot and update. And so I am on my phone and its really a pain to type. So I'm just reading everything for now. You just wait! 😀

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16 hours ago, JW Insider said:
23 hours ago, Jaocb said:

Now my view is that they should have provided numerous possible interpretations and we just watch and see which seems to be more true. This is my contention.

I agree that this would be a much more humble and discreet, much less presumptuous than proposing a specific belief without real scriptural support, and then just asking everyone to accept it as the solution.

@JaocbI never thought about the option of providing several interpretations. That would have been a good idea. Do you have some in mind?

Personally my main worries with this new understanding is that it seems like a grasping at straws, a carrot on a stick, and an actual devaluation of Jesus' admonition to be ready at all times. It'seems putting a date (although it's not a literal date, it is a specific closed time period, so still really concerned with time) is making it easier for people to worship Jehovah for a 'date'. I for the life of me do not understand why the GB found the need to 'reinvent' this interpretation again. For the third time if I'm not mistaken. When this idea first appeared in broadcasting, with br. Splane 'masterfully' explaining it, I asked myself why?? Were many of the friends asking for an interpretation, therefor did the GB decide they have to come up with something? It didn't seem like it, because br. Splane didn't introduce it that way, and he would have done if it was the case. So why? 

This was really a pain to type as my phone keeps doing weird spell check in several languages. So I'm going to stop there, although it's driving me crazy, because I like to respond 

 

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8 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Sounds like you can only "Do-little" for now, but if you scream to get your doctor double-quick, maybe you'll be off a second later, and get yourself to the Kingdom Hall on time, tomorrow.

I think, in fact I'm sure, the meeting will be cancelled because of inclement weather. I was going to listen in...

We're supposed to get up to 6 inches of snow overnight

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

@Jaocb I never thought about the option of providing several interpretations. That would have been a good idea. Do you have some in mind?

GENERATION (GENE-RATION)  from. ‘gene,’ a foreshortened version of generous, i.e. abundance 

and

’ration’ which suggests a limited supply, the very opposite of abundance.

From this we may conclude that the word itself is an oxymoron. Think anything you want.

”I think he’s got it. I think he’s got it. BY GEORGE, HE’S GOT IT!!”

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4 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

GENERATION (GENE-RATION)  from. ‘gene,’ a foreshortened version of generous, i.e. abundance 

and

’ration’ which suggests a limited supply, the very opposite of abundance.

From this we may conclude that the word itself is an oxymoron. Think anything you want.

”I think he’s got it. I think he’s got it. BY GEORGE, HE’S GOT IT!!”

That might be the explanation next, if nothing happens within 50 years, and I will turn over in my grave and shout; 'thatTrue Tom nailed it all those years ago!'

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10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Oh very well. Wait for him to tap you on the shoulder, make that request, and then say “Okay.”

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. Mark 11:24

Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?” John 11:40

He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” Mat 17:20

Then the apostles said to the Lord, “Give us more faith.” Luke 17:5

:))))) 

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10 hours ago, Anna said:

I'm not responding coz I'm sick in bed, and can't use my laptop coz it would mean I would have to unplug it, and the battery is dead so it would take ages to reboot and update. And so I am on my phone and its really a pain to type. So I'm just reading everything for now. You just wait! 😀

I hope you get well soon and I hope some Sisters are visiting you to give you help and give you practical and spiritual support.

I've never owned a laptop, not would I. I'm sort of old school, I can only work on a big desktop computer with a big keyboard, and a nice size monitor. As for mobile phones / cell phones, mine only does calls and text, it again is 'old school'. I could never use one with lots of apps etc. I keep saying I'm a simple man of poor education, just being online is a big step for me. :)

Anna, keep up your prayers to God, and get well soon. 

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UM, sounds a bit like some of you ( TTH & Anna ) are having less 'faith' in your GB's explanations.

Go careful some might call that Apostasy.  :).

But it's nice to see even you folks can see how the GB make themselves look stupid sometimes. 

Though, with that in mind, I can't understand how you can criticise me for not trusting your GB. 

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8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I hope you get well soon and I hope some Sisters are visiting you to give you help and give you practical and spiritual support.

Anna, keep up your prayers to God, and get well soon. 

Thank you John. I caught it off my husband, he is better now, and it's his turn to take care of me now 😁 . No, no. No visitors, I wouldn't want them  to catch anything!

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