FOUR problems with latest "GENERATION" teaching

[Anna]

8 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Sounds like you can only "Do-little" for now, but if you scream to get your doctor double-quick, maybe you'll be off a second later, and get yourself to the Kingdom Hall on time, tomorrow.

I think, in fact I'm sure, the meeting will be cancelled because of inclement weather. I was going to listen in...

We're supposed to get up to 6 inches of snow overnight

[Anna]

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

but he is like a person who likes to talk.

😂😂😂 don't listen to him @JW Insider

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

@Jaocb I never thought about the option of providing several interpretations. That would have been a good idea. Do you have some in mind?

GENERATION (GENE-RATION)  from. ‘gene,’ a foreshortened version of generous, i.e. abundance 

and

’ration’ which suggests a limited supply, the very opposite of abundance.

From this we may conclude that the word itself is an oxymoron. Think anything you want.

”I think he’s got it. I think he’s got it. BY GEORGE, HE’S GOT IT!!”

[Anna]

4 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

GENERATION (GENE-RATION)  from. ‘gene,’ a foreshortened version of generous, i.e. abundance 

and

’ration’ which suggests a limited supply, the very opposite of abundance.

From this we may conclude that the word itself is an oxymoron. Think anything you want.

”I think he’s got it. I think he’s got it. BY GEORGE, HE’S GOT IT!!”

That might be the explanation next, if nothing happens within 50 years, and I will turn over in my grave and shout; 'thatTrue Tom nailed it all those years ago!'

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Oh very well. Wait for him to tap you on the shoulder, make that request, and then say “Okay.”

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. Mark 11:24

Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?” John 11:40

He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” Mat 17:20

Then the apostles said to the Lord, “Give us more faith.” Luke 17:5

:))))) 

[JOHN BUTLER]

10 hours ago, Anna said:

I'm not responding coz I'm sick in bed, and can't use my laptop coz it would mean I would have to unplug it, and the battery is dead so it would take ages to reboot and update. And so I am on my phone and its really a pain to type. So I'm just reading everything for now. You just wait! 😀

I hope you get well soon and I hope some Sisters are visiting you to give you help and give you practical and spiritual support.

I've never owned a laptop, not would I. I'm sort of old school, I can only work on a big desktop computer with a big keyboard, and a nice size monitor. As for mobile phones / cell phones, mine only does calls and text, it again is 'old school'. I could never use one with lots of apps etc. I keep saying I'm a simple man of poor education, just being online is a big step for me.

Anna, keep up your prayers to God, and get well soon. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

UM, sounds a bit like some of you ( TTH & Anna ) are having less 'faith' in your GB's explanations.

Go careful some might call that Apostasy.  .

But it's nice to see even you folks can see how the GB make themselves look stupid sometimes. 

Though, with that in mind, I can't understand how you can criticise me for not trusting your GB. 

[Anna]

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I hope you get well soon and I hope some Sisters are visiting you to give you help and give you practical and spiritual support.

Anna, keep up your prayers to God, and get well soon. 

Thank you John. I caught it off my husband, he is better now, and it's his turn to take care of me now 😁 . No, no. No visitors, I wouldn't want them  to catch anything!

[Shiwiii]

On 1/18/2019 at 8:23 PM, Jaocb said:

This is off topic. You can't be disfellowshipped for not holding beliefs. You get disfellowshipped for purposefully causing dissension.

Then why is it asked in a judicial committee for apostasy if you believe that the gb is the faithful and discrete slave? 

[Anna]

On 1/19/2019 at 7:00 AM, JW Insider said:

In fact, Rutherford published in a later Watchtower, explicitly admitting that they "did not discern" the sign at the time, using his own word "discern."

I was just browsing this topic and was wondering if you had the reference for this. Thanks! 🙂

[JW Insider]

16 hours ago, Anna said:

I was just browsing this topic and was wondering if you had the reference for this. Thanks! 🙂

*** Watchtower, October 1, 1930, p.291 ***

Understanding that the ''day of Christ'' began when Jesus came to the temple of God, in 1918, it appears that the rebellion must precede that day. The beginning of the falling away or rebellion against God's organization would also mark the beginning of the disclosure of the ''man of sin'', even though none of God's children then on earth understood the matter. The Revelation which God gave to Jesus Christ to show to his "servant" began to be disclosed particularly from 1914 forward, but none of God's children on earth had an understanding thereof for fifteen years or more thereafter. They did see the evidence of things coming to pass which mark a fulfilment of Revelation, but they did not discern the meaning thereof. Likewise the faithful have for some years seen the manifestation of lawlessness and now begin to discern the meaning of the term the "man of sin".

*** end of quote ***

 

*** Watchtower, November 1, 1931, p. 376 ***

Who on earth understood prior to 1918 that Zion is God's organization and gives birth to the kingdom and to her children? The fact that no one on earth did so understand prior to the Lord's coming to his temple [in 1918] is proof that it was not God's due time for them to understand. Who understood prior thereto about Satan's organization, the battle in heaven, and the casting of Satan out of heaven?  Manifestly no one could understand these things until the temple of God was open.

*** end of quote ***

These are the most direct quotes to start from. Once this context is understood, you can find another ten or so quotes that mean the same thing as "they did not discern" but without using the exact words. It becomes obvious that they did not discern when they "dug in their heels" at hanging on to 1874. 1874 was still officially the "discerned" start of Christ's presence/parousia, and this was repeated often from 1915 and even into the 1930's. (Officially dropped in 1943/1944.)

Basically, Jesus presence began in 1874, and his coming/advent had also been dated to 1874, but Rutherford often spoke of Jesus coming (erchomai) in 1918. And the End of the Gentile Times could only be proven by events taking place in Palestine, including the resurrection of the ancient worthies like Abraham in 1914. Since the meaning of "Gentile Times" didn't pan out, the meaning was finally officially changed around 1930/1931.

The September 1, 1930 Watchtower issue says this on pages 201, 202:

"With the beginning of the second presence of the Lord, approximately A. D. 1875, there was a change in the work. . . .  The evidence seems quite conclusive that the gathering of these members of the body into the temple is almost complete, if not entirely so. The evidence shows that a great separating work has been going on since 1918 and that probably that separating work is not entirely completed, . . . .

 

The October 15, 1930 Watchtower, p.308 said:

 

"The second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ dates from about A. D. 1875,"

 

The idea was barely mentioned for a couple of years, and then in the June 1, 1933 Watchtower (p.174), it goes back to 1874, again:

 

"The second and invisible presence of Christ dates from about eighteen hundred and seventy-four."

 

*** Watch Tower, October 1, 1903 [Reprints p. 3249] ***

"It will be vain for Zionists to hope to establish an independent government in Palestine.... Palestine will be 'trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be filled full'—viz., October, 1914, A.D. By that time the heavenly kingdom will be in power and the ancient worthies—Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all the holy prophets—will be resurrected and constitute the earthly representatives of the spiritual and invisible kingdom of Christ and his Gospel church." *** end of quote ***

 

[I'm currently travelling and accessing my computer remotely, so I mostly grabbed the above from things written in a 2016 conversation on this forum with Outta Here, Holly W, you, Allen S, etc.]

[JW Insider]

A couple of other indications that they were not discerning a sign in 1914, is that Rutherford took the 40-year harvest from 1874-1914, and shifted it to 1878-1918, bypassing the significance of 1914.

1914 hadn't even shown anything significant yet with respect to the Gentile Times, either, which is why by January 1, 1916, the Watchtower had shifted the End of the Gentile Times to 1915:

Also, it wasn't until May 1922, that the Watchtower first reported on the idea that Russell had announced on October 1, 1914 that "The Gentile Times have ended!" It took nearly 8 years before anyone thought this story was important. And since then the story has been told as happening on October 4, 1914 and and October 2, 1914.