Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit

[Anna]

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

NWT “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;n those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

 

This does show a distinction. It shows that Jesus was only talking to the Anointed. 

Yes, he was talking to the anointed, and I never denied there was a distinction between the two, there is obviously, a BIG distinction. One goes to heaven, and the other stays on earth. And there will even be a bigger distinction once the heavenly group are in heaven, they will be immortal, whereas the earthly group will not. But as regards the value of life, everyone has the same value. Jehovah doesn't look upon an anointed brother here on earth and says he has more worth than a brother, or a sister, or a child who are not anointed. God does not judge people by the job/ function they have, but by what is in their heart.  ....." For the way man sees is not the way God sees, because mere man sees what appears to the eyes, but Jehovah sees into the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Anna Quote " I think the WT that talked about the anointed wished to highlight that there is no difference between the anointed still on earth, and the earthly class, apart from their future destinations. "

 

You make this statement with nothing to back it up. I've asked you for scriptural backing and you refuse to give any. You do not even quote which W/T it came from.

 https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-january-2016/anointing-process/

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

Reading that W/t,  Paragraph 10  contradiction by GB against God's word.

As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie. Just as it has taught you, remain in union with him.”  1 John 2 v 27

But GB says in Watchtower  "These ones need spiritual instruction just like everyone else." 

Look at the scripture they are using,  and you do not need anyone to be teaching you;

Complete contradiction of God's word. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Anna  Quote "God does not judge people by the job/ function they have, ..." 

Luke 12 v 48 b.

Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

Says it all i think. 

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, FelixCA said:

by the way "fact that he never every claimed" your choice of grammar here makes no sense.

LOL. Thanks.  It wasn't by choice, and it's not the first time I have typed "every" for "ever." Among a lot of other mistakes I make is a common one for me where I type "Babylong" for "Babylon" and "imaging" for "imagine." Unfortunately the built in spell-check here will only flag the "Babylong" error.

And for some reason I almost always type "it's" even when it's "its." Another one that rarely gets flagged, so I often neglect to change it.

[JW Insider]

On 1/30/2019 at 3:28 PM, FelixCA said:

Upvoting what is clearly a misguided view by “witness” understanding just made my case stand on solid ground.

Perhaps it's misguided, but it's a view from "Witness" that I agree with 100 percent.

Fred Franz was very intelligent, of course. But when I recorded two interviews with him for over an hour each, I was forced to come to my own conclusions about him based on the content of things he said, and certain expressions he used.

I think most of what you need to know about him comes from his September 1975 Gilead Talk which I have already linked to in the past. I'm not talking about his argument against an active Governing Body that would form a committee, or ecclesiastical body of some kind, although even that says something that he would use that opportunity for a political speech directed at the other members of the Governing Body disguised only slightly by working in some awkward references to the Gilead students. (Like, 'And don't you get the idea that you need to form committees in the countries to which you have been assigned!')

The Watchtower summarized his talk with only vague references to what it was really about:

*** w75 11/1 p. 672 Graduates of Gilead’s 59th Class Urged to Stick to the Work ***
Addressing the graduates, F. W. Franz showed why they were not being sent by any ecclesiastical body such as exists in the churches of Christendom. According to the Scriptures, neither Philip nor the apostle Paul, two outstanding evangelizers or missionaries in the first century C.E., received missionary assignments from the apostolic body at Jerusalem. Both men did their work under the direction of the real head of the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ. Paul had, in fact, been directly chosen by Jesus as an apostle to the nations. Later, at the direction of God’s spirit, Paul and his companion Barnabas were sent out from the Antioch congregation. Both men recognized their assignment as having come, not from men, but from Jesus Christ.

I'm referring more to his comments about 1975 in that same talk. The typical anti-JW sites, usually cut off the talk before he gets to these comments because those sites are more concerned with his views against the Governing Body. But I'm sure you can find the whole talk somewhere. It's what he says after he pulls out his Jewish calendar to show how it was now the 2nd day of Tishri 1976, and therefore now, "the 2nd day of the 7th millennium of man's existence here on earth." That statement got what sounded like the biggest cheer of the talk.

I don't know if he intended it, but it recalled the day that C.T.Russell came down to the dining room on October 1st, 1914 per the Watchtower of that time period (and later changed to October 4th, and currently stated as October 2nd) to announce that the 'Gentile Times have ended!'  F.Franz then rambled on about some wonderful, "startling, surprising, happifying things" of numerical significance, since this was the 59th Class, meaning that the 60th was about to start later that year, and "60" should remind us that 6,000 years is 60 centuries. Isn't that amazing!?!?! That this class 59 was only one number away from 60, which somehow gave new significance to 1975.

If you pay close attention to his books on Daniel's prophecy (and others) you will see some of the same types of unspiritual thinking.  For me, F.Franz proved to be a prime example of why we should not put our trust in a man:

(Psalm 146:3) . . . Do not put your trust in . . . a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:29 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Butler, I noticed you don’t downvote people like Anna, JWinsider, TrueTom, James Thomas Rook, etc. even though you disagree with them, and at times have a strong opinion of them. I can honestly state you are being obtuse. Do yourself a favor and grow up. I don't mean spiritually since you have already crossed the line on that, but mentally.

I’ll help you with this down vote. Bear witness that your actions mean nothing other than being a stain in your life. I feel sorry for you.

In fairness, he has downvoted me, and he will no longer have occasion to downvote @James Thomas Rook Jr.. For the next year, James says, we will hear nothing from him...zip...zero...nada...as he writes the successor to Asimov’s trilogy.

Of course, I am keeping a sharp eye out for that work. I may already have spotted it in a recent novel of a mysterious visit from a planet of apostates! “We come in peace,” they say slyly upon deboarding their craft. “See? We have shaved our beards. Take us to your leaders. How many are there of them now? Seven? Eight?” I don’t trust them.

There is a earthing character whom everyone likes named TrueTim. He approaches and extends a hand of welcome, only to be savagely rebuffed. “Get your hands off us, you damned dirty ape!” they bellow. 

 

 

[Anna]

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But GB says in Watchtower  "These ones need spiritual instruction just like everyone else." 

Which is true. The Bible has been written for everyone's spiritual instruction. The Bible is the instructor. Without reading it, the holy spirit wouldn't be able to bring anything out.  John 14:26  "But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you". Jesus was telling his disciples they would recall everything he taught them, and they wrote it down for us, and today the holy spirit will help us to recall what we have read. Holy spirit is also needed to understand what they wrote. Not everyone understands, because if they did, we wouldn't have so many contradictory "Christian teachings" based on the same writings.

In other words:

In context, John was writing about those anointed in the first century. At that time only the Hebrew scriptures were available.  He said the holy spirit would anoint them and guide them into all the truth. They wouldn't need anyone to teach them (perhaps such as the scribes and pharisees?). This is why the apostles were able to write the Christian Greek scriptures. They were under inspiration from the holy spirit. And they were commissioned to spread the good news about the Kingdom and Jesus with the holy spirit helping them.

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote "God does not judge people by the job/ function they have, ..." 

Luke 12 v 48 b.

Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

Says it all i think. 

John, we are going round in circles because we are both talking about two different things. Maybe that’s my fault because I have not explained it very well. Yes, more will be demanded of the one who was given a bigger job. Logically! But that does not change that all people’s LIVES have the same worth. Otherwise you would be saying God discriminates on account of position, that somebody with a higher position has more value in God’s eyes than someone of a lowly position. In fact God has chosen the lowly ones to put the more important ones to shame. Intellect, power, position and wisdom are not deciding factors in whether God approves of them more than another person. God reads hearts.

I was using the word Judge as a verb, not a noun:

Judge  (noun)

1.a public official appointed to decide cases in a court of law.

2.a person who decides the results of a competition or watches for infractions of the rules.

3. a person able or qualified to give an opinion on something.

Judge (verb)

1.form an opinion or conclusion about. come to the conclusion, conclude, decide, determine; consider, believe, think, deem, view;

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Anna quote " They wouldn't need anyone to teach them (perhaps such as the scribes and pharisees?). " 

Or a Governing Body ? 

Quote "These ones need spiritual instruction just like everyone else." The clue comes in the last 4 words 

What the W/t writer is saying is that the Anointed need instruction from the GB / Writing dept' just like everyone else.

Quote "Otherwise you would be saying God discriminates on account of position, that somebody with a higher position has more value in God’s eyes than someone of a lowly position. "

If 'Experiences' (in Yearbooks / Watchtowers etc)  are to be believed, then it would seem that God / Jesus Christ has / have saved some brothers/sisters in certain circumstances, but not saved other brothers/sisters in other circumstances. Now both God and His Son work in their own ways, working together as one, and i would never question what they do. I am humble enough to know that their ways are much higher than mine. But they must have their reasons for saving some and not others. (If experiencies are to be believed). 

An example of a supposed 'experience' : A sister was on the ministry and knocked on the door of a man. The man turned her away. The man was later arrested for rape/murder of a woman in his own home. When questioned as to why he did not invite the sister in etc, as she had been his first visitor. The man said that she 'had a man stood either side of her', she was not alone. But the sister had gone in to the ministry alone, so the 'man either side of her' must have been angels guarding her. ... True or false I do not know, but I do know it was offered as an 'experience' at a meeting a long time ago. 

 

 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

(If experiencies are to be believed). 

If you are looking for reasons not to believe these experiences, it's always easy to find such stories that are told in ways that make them unbelievable. I know there are several Mormon missionary stories that use the idea of two angels protecting someone on his left and right, which also matches a Mormon scripture. A story of 26 angels guarding someone (non-Mormon) was treated by snopes.com, a would-be fact checking site for all kinds of email stories and Internet rumors.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/26-guards/

“Potential victim’s attacker is scared off by guardian angels” is a common glurge theme. (Another widely-circulated tale about a girl who barely avoids becoming the victim of a rapist also draws upon this theme)

In fact, that link to "rapist" is to another snopes debunkable which has been told in versions quite similar to the Witness version: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alley-oops/

Many non-Witnesses would be happy to believe that such an experience happened to a Witness, but many Witnesses would be troubled by the fact that non-Witnesses have claimed such experiences, too, and would probably doubt those claims.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

and i would never question what they do. I am humble enough to know that their ways are much higher than mine. But they must have their reasons for saving some and not others.

As you say, however, we cannot question that there may indeed be many cases of divine protection. An thought about why "some and not others" is found in the latter portion of the response to the second link above about the rapist. It's a bit off topic so I won't go into it further, but thought you might find it interesting

[JW Insider]

11 hours ago, Anna said:

Jesus was telling his disciples they would recall everything he taught them, and they wrote it down for us, and today the holy spirit will help us to recall what we have read. Holy spirit is also needed to understand what they wrote.

This sounds correct, and it's an excellent way to explain how the holy spirit would lead them into all truth, yet Paul said that still see incompletely and imperfectly, as if looking into a hazy mirror.

This is why I was a bit disappointed at the implication by GJ that seems limiting when it says that holy spirt created the Bible for us (true) but it seems like the holy spirit is not described as playing a part in the process of helping the GB understand it. It's presented as if the HS has already done its work and congealed itself into the Bible, but reading and rationalizing and remembering how verses might apply is the way the holy spirit "acts." He did mention prayer but gave no connection to the process. It ends up sounding like the way people apply Dylan lyrics to their lives or Shakespeare quotes to describe an experience or a "moral" of a story. (The difference being that the Bible "contains" holy spirit.) 

His analogy to the Bible as a "constitution" was very appropriate for the legal setting, but it too is a bit disappointing in the context of how the Governing Body, in effect acts like a congress to pass new and improved bills (doctrines) based on a majority if not unanimous voting.

And there's that historical problem. If holy spirit is needed to understand (and I thin it is) then what does this say about doctrines that are constantly changed, sometimes back and forth.

[FelixCA]

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

LOL. Thanks.  It wasn't by choice, and it's not the first time I have typed "every" for "ever." Among a lot of other mistakes I make is a common one for me where I type "Babylong" for "Babylon" and "imaging" for "imagine." Unfortunately the built in spell-check here will only flag the "Babylong" error.

And for some reason I almost always type "it's" even when it's "its." Another one that rarely gets flagged, so I often neglect to change it

That’s good you see your grammar mistakes in order to stop your attempts of degrading others as well as their word usage even if it’s a common word. You don’t have control over certain words to make nonsensical corrections. Let that be a listen to you, that we are all imperfect and your writings skill “fail” just like the rest of us.

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Perhaps it's misguided, but it's a view from "Witness" that I agree with 100 percent.

Fred Franz was very intelligent, of course. But when I recorded two interviews with him for over an hour each, I was forced to come to my own conclusions about him based on the content of things he said, and certain expressions he used.

 

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I'm referring more to his comments about 1975 in that same talk. The typical anti-JW sites, usually cut off the talk before he gets to these comments because those sites are more concerned with his views against the Governing Body. But I'm sure you can find the whole talk somewhere. It's what he says after he pulls out his Jewish calendar to show how, if I remember right, it was now the first day of Tishri 5736 and 6,000 years of man's existence had just ended. (It was actually the 2nd day of Tishri, still morning, and it would be the 3rd of Tishri later that day when the sun went down.) 

I don't know if he intended it, but it recalled the day that C.T.Russell came down to the dining room on October 1st, 1914 per the Watchtower of that time period (and later changed to October 4th, and currently stated as October 2nd) to announce that the 'Gentile Times have ended!'  F.Franz then rambled on about some wonderful, happifying numerical significance, since this was the 59th Class, meaning that the 60th was about to start later that year, and "60" should remind us that 6,000 years is 60 centuries. Isn't that amazing!?!?! That this class 59 was only one number away from 60, which somehow gave new significance to 1975.

Then I would have to say not only are you lying to others, your lying to yourself. This is a good example of not trusting you as a man.

Especially when you forced yourself to come to the wrong conclusion by your expressed statement about quietly criticizing Fred Franz a man you obviously never really knew, but through some interviews and Watchtower publications you clearly distort.

What does the *** w75 11/1 p. 671 Graduates of Gilead’s 59th Class Urged to Stick to the Work ***

Graduates of Gilead’s 59th Class Urged to Stick to the Work

What does the 59th Gilead class have to do with some witnesses failing to understand what was really happening in 1975? I hope you have personal experience with living that year as many of us did. It was even brought up in the congregation just last week, and it’s on video on how some mistakenly took the value and significance of 1975.

Perhaps you could have learned something when the same kind of hysteria was shown by some delusional witnesses in Canada last year. That type of hysteria also started in Canada for 1975 end of the world nonsense.

What people should really look at is the motive of certain people like this apostate M. James Penton that could have curved the misinformation but instead kept quiet to make it a talking point in his book, apocalypse delayed. The same kind of distorted rhetoric offered by Raymond Franz.

 

A personal friend turned missionary in central America was encouraged to maintain their due course to continue their fine works given them through the Holy Spirit instead of thinking it was a directive coming from the Watchtower headquarters.

There’s nothing wrong to give the same illustration given by Jesus action to send people out to evangelize through him and not the high priest that new the laws but didn’t practice what they preached.

Luke 10:1-23 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Sends Out the Seventy-Two

10 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two^[a] others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. ² He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. ³ Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. ⁴ Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.

 

That is an inconclusive argument in your part to show bias, not actual wisdom since the Watchtower does adhere to the inspired word.

Therefore, Fred Franz was correct is saying Jesus had their back and support. Its written in scripture for those who dedicate their lives to God through the true gospel of Christ.

Romans 12 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

Dedicate Your Lives to God

12 Brothers and sisters, in view of all we have just shared about God’s compassion, I encourage you to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, dedicated to God and pleasing to him. This kind of worship is appropriate for you. ² Don’t become like the people of this world. Instead, change the way you think. Then you will always be able to determine what God really wants—what is good, pleasing, and perfect.

With your illustration, it is more evident, the Watchtower expectation went beyond 1975. Therefore, the evidence itself contradicts your claim and argument.

Now with your rambling on with CTR, I fail to see what the “end of the gentile times” in 1914 have to do with obscuring the year 1975 by some that didn’t understand the 6000 years.

Once again, by your insinuation, you hold the Watchtower personally responsible for the lack of understanding some had, apparently along with your view.

CTR had a presence of mind to understand what 1914 held with the enthronement of Christ as king in the heavens. He had no other expectation by his writings. So their early expectation about the 6000 years was 1873, not 1975. However, there are still some competing thoughts by the Bible Students as to the 6000 years. Redeker still holds the position of 1873 while other Bible Students have changed their chronology to 2043AD. None of which belong to the Jehovah’s witnesses understanding of 1975.

Well, now, the Lord may have something of that character for us, and for all I know the Church may be here during that time of trouble or during a portion of that time of trouble. There is nothing in the Bible that says just as soon as the Gentile times are ended all the Church will be glorified. The Church may be here after the trouble is begun, perhaps. Perhaps. It is possible. We'll see. And we'll be content whatever we see, won't we! That is the situation, dear friends! "Content, whatever lot I see, since 'tis my God that leadeth me." Could we be otherwise than content with God's leading? We may be sure that all the leadings of our Heavenly Father and of our Heavenly Lord will all be for good, that we will have every reason to enjoy His leadings.

This shows you are combining to separate understandings to fabricate an unconscionable situation. I believe, Raymond called it a crisis even though he created that crisis by his erred understanding. He shoulda stuck with the truth instead of listening to a failed man’s treatise, only to ruin his heavenly hope.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17703483

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/24/teenagers-generation-in-crisis

It would stand to reason that after 1975 6000 years if humanity would be entering into the 7^th day when God rested, there would be evidence of, more chaos. I believe humanity has proven that point and has not disappointed a true chronologist.

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

Let that be a listen to you, that we are all imperfect and your writings skill “fail” just like the rest of us.

It's not a lesson to me, because I have always known this. I have never claimed to write any better than anyone else. I only asked about the meaning of a word that I assumed might have been used correctly, but which didn't make much sense in context. Anytime someone asks what someone meant, it's the same as asking about the meaning of word(s) used. No reason to get angry just because someone asks what you mean. I welcome it when someone asks me what I mean, and I welcome it when someone points out my mistakes.

Also quite different from you, I don't consider bad spelling and grammar to be any kind of "fail" on your part, my part, or for anyone else. That's why you don't see me degrading others, or making fun of grammar or bad spelling. In this case I really wondered what actual meaning was intended in the several recent instances of that particular word I asked about. I also knew why you might seem sensitive about it, but I also really wanted to know what you meant.

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

Then I would have to say not only are you lying to others, your lying to yourself. This is a good example of not trusting you as a man.

Especially when you forced yourself to come to the wrong conclusion by your expressed statement about quietly criticizing Fred Franz a man you obviously never really knew, but through some interviews and Watchtower publications you clearly distort.

I know how important it might be to impute wrong motives to me. But if you think you know something different, why not share evidence instead of unsubstantiated accusations?

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

What does the 59th Gilead class have to do with some witnesses failing to understand what was really happening in 1975?

It's another example of Fred Franz' obsession with 1975 and something akin to numerology.

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

Perhaps you could have learned something when the same kind of hysteria was shown by some delusional witnesses in Canada last year.

You're right. I did learn something from that. Curious too that, before I knew about that Canadian incident, I had already expressed concern that the recent videos being shown with the guns and hiding in rooms could have an unpredictable effect on some Witnesses.

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

That type of hysteria also started in Canada for 1975 end of the world nonsense.

Interesting. Do you have evidence?

I never saw "hysteria" anywhere. Just a lot of serious people who seriously believed that the period around 1975 was destined to be a very important date related to the time of the end. By serious, I mean they truly believed, but they were also happy about it. I was also both happy and serious about it too. My parents were different as to how they took the predictions about the 1970s, but circuit overseers were encouraging quitting school to pioneer, and I quit school at 15 (1973) to do just that. Naturally, I discussed that plan with my parents in 1972, but was asked to finish out my high school "sophomore" year. My mother liked the idea that it could be as early as 1974, because that would allow for a lot of growth from the increased activity, but it would still come at an hour we were not expecting it. My father was more like: 'It could come anytime between now (1972) and the end of the 80s, picking the 80s because he didn't see world conditions lasting much beyond that. (As the 80s approached he was quick to pick up on some of that "end of the century" talk, always tending to push the end out about 15 years.)

My mother surprised me yesterday because she said I might want to wait until I'm 67 to collect Social Security instead of collecting when I turn 62. I didn't say anything, but thought: "Wow!! What a difference half-a-century makes!!"

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

What people should really look at is the motive of certain people like this apostate M. James Penton that could have curved the misinformation but instead kept quiet to make it a talking point in his book, apocalypse delayed. The same kind of distorted rhetoric offered by Raymond Franz.

I have Penton's book, but must admit that I haven't read even a quarter of it yet. Is that where your evidence of Canadian hysteria comes from?

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

There’s nothing wrong to give the same illustration given by Jesus action to send people out to evangelize through him and not the high priest that new the laws but didn’t practice what they preached.

I think you are referring to F.Franz Gilead talk. If you listened to it you would see that he said it was Knorr himself who came up with the idea of the School of Gilead to send out evangelizers, and it was Knorr himself who sent out these first missionaries under the direction of the Watchtower Society. He didn't need a committee to approve. He was, as F.Franz said in the talk, NOT just a figurehead, he was NOT a "do-nothing President." F.Franz considered a president getting direction from a committee, to be the equivalent of the "tail wagging the dog." (He didn't use that expression in the same Gilead talk, but it was implied.)

I think you might be saying that just like Jesus sent out the 70 instead of the unapproved leaders, that the WTBTS or GB or FDS can just as easily represent the approved leaders who send out true missionaries as opposed to the unapproved leaders of Christendom. That might be a true statement, but it was not what F.Franz had in mind when he made it clear that no "ecclesiastical body" should have that responsibility. He made it clear that he liked the idea of a single president wielding authority with the final say, and the ability to just ignore all those under him if he wished. I don't think it was lost on some in the audience that F.Franz knew his time in that office of president would be just a few months away. 

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

Therefore, Fred Franz was correct is saying Jesus had their back and support. Its written in scripture for those who dedicate their lives to God through the true gospel of Christ.

Yes, you're right; he was correct in saying that. It was his rant against governing bodies (and committees) that seemed out of place, even though he used plenty of scriptures to back it up. He showed how even the apostolic body in Jerusalem was not a centralized body acting in the capacity to send out missionaries.

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

With your illustration, it is more evident, the Watchtower expectation went beyond 1975. Therefore, the evidence itself contradicts your claim and argument.

No. It doesn't. In fact that was one of the most ambiguous passages in that May 1, 1968 Watchtower about 1975, when it said "1975! And Beyond."  It stated that perhaps some can't see beyond 1975, but Witnesses should see ourselves continuing right on into a new system. These were very carefully crafted words.

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

Now with your rambling on with CTR, I fail to see what the “end of the gentile times” in 1914 have to do with obscuring the year 1975 by some that didn’t understand the 6000 years.

I recalled the date problem in the Russell story of his announcement of the "end of the Gentile Times" and it reminded me that F.Franz used this opportunity to also announce the "end of the 6th 1,000 year day in the 7th 7,000 year creative day. His, as I recall, also produces a date problem. But it was to show that he was still obsessed with the unscriptural doctrine of the 6,000 years being significant. It is against scripture in that it's based on the idea that either Jesus and the angels either can't count, or this scripture is false:

Matthew 24:36  “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.