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JOHN BUTLER

Inspired Choices? Jesus Picked Judas; Governing Body Picked Raymond Franz;

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1 minute ago, Anna said:

What would you say to Jesus when he handpicked Judas Iscariot as one of his 12 Apostles?

People always seem to harp back to 2000 years ago, to try to make a defence for the GB. 

Different times, different situations.

Judas allowed himself to be misled by the devil, but it also seems it was necessary that the betrayer came from within. 

Maybe you should have quoted this bit as well. "Yet he gets kicked out by the other members of the GB for being an apostate."

Because it seems Raymond Franz didn't betray God or Jesus Christ.

Knowledge of such things is way over my head of course, so I don't know who was right in God's viewpoint.

But it does give a person reason to distrust the GB if RF wasn't found guilty of any real wrongdoing. 

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25 minutes ago, FelixCA said:

Then you challenge God’s sovereignty and superiority. I would have to ask, who are you to challenge God? Are you Satan as the inference implies? Hitler was an evil man as a youth. That darkened heart continued to increase over the embarrassment of having his country lose a war and having Jews gain some control over the motherland. Therefore, the Hitler analogy is inadequate in how someone would blame an organization or society. Seems like an overreach bordering on mental instability.

 

Are you foreign that you do not understand English properly ? No disrespect if you are, but it would give me reason to know why you misinterpret  everything i  write.

It was / is the wicked angels, that is the devil and his demons,  that challenge God's sovereignty not me. I just stated the case....  

Hitler could not have done any of the wicked deeds without the majority of Germany backing him.  The  Germans may not have backed him because they wanted to, but maybe out of fear. Just as JW's serve the GB through the Elders, out of fear. 

Just as people come on here , this forum, but use pseudonyms, out of fear of being found out by the Elders.

Felix i see you are using the GB's idea of suggesting people are mentally unstable. Typical Watchtower doctrine. 

Sorry Admin but I'm just answering Felix. Perhaps Felix should start another topic of should i just ignore him ?  

But let's get back on topic. A question 

Is it a disfellowshipping offence to read Raymond Franz books, or to own them ? 

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2 hours ago, Witness said:

We have full evidence that the disciples were inspired by Spirit. John 20:22;  Rom 8:5,9; 1 Cor 2:10  We don't have that evidence with the GB who must alter teachings continually.   We don't hear how the Spirit directs them, but that they are not "inspired"; so, instead, we hear how the GB put their heads together to come up with new decrees.  There is no comparison to the apostles.  Why make it?  

Are you suggesting, Jesus didn’t alter the Jewish teaching? At what point does denigrating the GB by you and Butler amount to ethical thinking. A person that opposes God’s coordinated earthly rule and one that renounces their own faith have zero credibility to any conversation.

So far, I see conflict as Raymond Franz had about CHANGE. Although the change he had in mind was becoming the next President of the Watchtower, and when that didn’t happen, apostasy grew within.

As a living sacrifice, shouldn’t we make a change? Romans 12:1-2

Shouldn’t we be renewed day by day? 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

Whereas those that oppose authority defy God.

Romans 13:2

2Consequently, the one who resists authority is opposing what God has set in place, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

There seems to be some confusion about the great commission. Matthew 28:19-20 and the rule we each have with our personal abilities. Mark 16:15 what it means to preach thought-out the world. Acts 1:8 and who has what capabilities and responsibilities. 

 

Ephesians 4:11-16 King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

Those that refuse to obey the instructions left by Christ cannot be called a Christian. Jesus appointed the apostles but God gave them the Holy Spirit just as it was given to Christ. Jesus appointed the laborers for the harvest Luke 10, but God gave them the Holy Spirit.

Did Jesus defy the prevailing authority? Matthew 23:2-4

Therefore, let’s put that authority nonsense to rest once and for all. What is a flock without a shepherd? Acts 20:28 who are the overseers, the sheep? I can think of several things not to listen to such lofty arguments. 2 Corinthians 10:5

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It was / is the wicked angels, that is the devil and his demons,  that challenge God's sovereignty not me. I just stated the case

Your wrong, you are doing the same thing. Therefore, don't lie to yourself, no one else is listening.

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1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

Are you suggesting, Jesus didn’t alter the Jewish teaching? At what point does denigrating the GB by you and Butler amount to ethical thinking.

You appear to be placing the GB on the same level as Jesus Christ, which I agree that they have accomplished this.  Jesus altered the Jewish teaching because its leaders spoke as their "father", Satan.  

  Is anyone allowed to alter Jesus' teachings?  

 

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

A person that opposes God’s coordinated earthly rule and one that renounces their own faith have zero credibility to any conversation.

Can you give me scriptural verification that the GB is God's coordinated earthly rule?

The Watchtower has corrupted the decrees of God – His Word. God’s “laws” are the source of life which Jesus brought us as, “The Word”. John 1:1 His teachings incorporate every decree God expects us to follow. The WT leaders “judge” and “measure” according to the decrees of men.

 

The “Pharisaical” leaders of the WT cannot interpret the decrees of God since they have come as false “christs”, lording it over anointed and all in the organization. Matt 24:24  They expect obedience to them and their decrees, and not to Jesus Christ and his Word, which comes from God.

" Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The WORDS I speak to you I DO NOT SPEAK ON MY OWN. The Father who lives in Me does His works." John 14:10

“Don’t assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commands AND TEACHES PEOPLE TO DO SO, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, UNLESS YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS SURPASSES THAT OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 5:17-20

"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."   Deut 4:2

1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

Those that refuse to obey the instructions left by Christ cannot be called a Christian.

That's right.

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
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1 hour ago, Witness said:

Can you give me scriptural verification that the GB is God's coordinated earthly rule?

The Watchtower has corrupted the decrees of God – His Word. God’s “laws” are the source of life which Jesus brought us as, “The Word”. John 1:1 His teachings incorporate every decree God expects us to follow. The WT leaders “judge” and “measure” according to the decrees of men.

So far scripture stipulates those that can take the lead. You seem to fail in wanting to acknowledge their needs to be a party responsible in any given organization as instructed by Jesus. A faithful servant, reputable men, shepherd of a flock. All these are found in scripture you seem to dismiss. The ancients had prophets as guides. Christianity was guided by Christ and instructed to do the same throughout the world. With responsible people in the lead. Why defy Jesus instructions and God’s laws. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

What part of Christ words in Acts 20:28-30 fails you. These are the inspired words of God through John 1:1

Then it is yourself that are altering Jesus teachings. Then you should consider placing yourself in the same category as the GB. It’s dishonest to claim scripture as a convenience. 1 John 4:1-6

Therefore, can you give me verification the Watchtower GB is NOT God’s coordinated helpers on earth as God's will is in heaven?

On the rest, it appears the interpretation you give on scripture is misguided. Can anyone listen to a corrupter of God's word? Once again, wouldn’t that put you in the same category as these “Pharisaical leaders” you hate? Matthew 16:11-12

It appears the same problem Raymond Franz had after confusing scripture with his own personal desire.

All that the GB is about is written in scripture. In effect, the Watchtower constitution. What, is your constitution and doctrine when having people understand scripture the incorrect way for personal gain. Therefore, no one is adding to Christ instructions aside from those that hate a fellow Christian Colossians 2:4

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1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

What part of Christ words in Acts 20:28-30 fails you.

I have no problem at all with it.  I do not lay down new decrees for men to obey as the GB is known for, and admits to doing.  (Check with Anthony Morris about this)  This is "distorting the truth" - Christ's truth.

Felix the Cat carried around a Magic Bag of Tricks.  I'll just say this; no further comment, Allen Smith.  :)

 

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This is a whole new thread that spun out of the Raymond Franz article.... not BY JOHN BUTLER... but a group of members.... just for clarity

 

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@JW Insider Thank you, I could not link to this so this is a great help, and those last few comments I would not want to have missed. 

@FelixCA you mentioned," With responsible people in the lead."

So not the GB then :) 

Quote " Therefore, can you give me verification the Watchtower GB is NOT God’s coordinated helpers on earth as God's will is in heaven? " 

By their works you will know them.  Evidence proves the GB are not God's true servants. 

  

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@FelixCA  "All that the GB is about is written in scripture."    Ah yes, offering children to Molech.  

Quote "Whereas those that oppose authority defy God. " 

Well the Pope has authority in the eyes of many. The Archbishop also has authority in the eyes of many. 

And your GB has authority in the eyes of a few. 

So you see, your comment means nothing at all. You are lost. 

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 God gave his intelligent creation freedom of choice. Jehovah made a beautiful angel in heaven along with myriads of others, he decided to become a resister of Jehovah's purpose later on and is called Satan. Jesus picked Judas, Judas changed afterwards. Governing body picked Raymond Franz, etc etc  Everyone intelligent creation can change.

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42 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

 God gave his intelligent creation freedom of choice. Jehovah made a beautiful angel in heaven along with myriads of others, he decided to become a resister of Jehovah's purpose later on and is called Satan. Jesus picked Judas, Judas changed afterwards. Governing body picked Raymond Franz, etc etc  Everyone intelligent creation can change.

You have been taught well. You are good at twisting things to your own purpose just like the GB does. 

But you have chosen a very sly way to accuse Raymond Franz. 

And anyway if you believe the GB are who they pretend to be, wouldn't God have chosen Franz, or possibly Jesus chosen Franz ?

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1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

Jesus picked Judas, Judas changed afterwards.

But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.  John 6:64

Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”  John 13:10,11

 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. 24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, 25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.  John 2:23-25

 

 

 

 

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Jesus at some point knew it was Judas.  It was prophesied that someone close would do it. Jesus would have discerned that it was Judas as he showed up his deviousness surrounding greed for money, among other things written and not written. However, Jesus prayed all night  before choosing Judas and the others.  He was a good person at that point.

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1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

Jesus at some point knew it was Judas.  It was prophesied that someone close would do it. Jesus would have discerned that it was Judas as he showed up his deviousness surrounding greed for money, among other things written and not written. However, Jesus prayed all night  before choosing Judas and the others.  He was a good person at that point.

“At some point”. Yes, he prayed because he said he did nothing but what the Father told him.  John 5:30; 8:28.  Since God knows all things, do you believe He would keep Judas as the betrayer a secret from Jesus, letting him find out on his own?   You are saying Jesus had no ability given him by God, to read the heart of man. Scriptures say otherwise.  John 2:23-25; 6:64  Judas was chosen as a betrayer.  It sounds like your saying that Jesus was in the dark about who of the 12, would betray him until he proved himself to be a thief.  Both God and Christ knew his heart.  John 2:23-25.  Jesus knew “from the beginning”.  “He knew all men”.   

John 17:12 - While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Do you believe he didn't know how he would die, or that Pilate would be instrumental in sending him to his death at the demand of the Pharisees?  He knew exactly how it would happen and by whom. 

Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”   John 8:54-58

Judas’ role as the betrayer was fulfilled. Ps 41:9; Mark 14:19-21   Jesus’ choice for the twelfth apostle was Paul; another stumbling block most likely, for JWs. He personally chose all 12 apostles, as well as who would betray him.  Matthias was chosen by men, who cast lots. Acts 1:26

Here are examples of Jesus’ knowing what was in the heart of each person even before speaking with them.

Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Mark 2:6-8

 

When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”48 “How do you know me?” Nathanael asked.

Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.” 49 Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.” John 18:47-49

How did Jesus see him?  Spiritually, physically?  How did he determine that Nathaneal had “no deceit” unless he read his heart?  John 18:47-49

 

 

 

 

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Agree with most of what you said. But Judas as not predestined to be the betrayer - he chose to be at some point. It would be unloving of Jehovah to predestine someone for destruction. Jehovah gave us all freedom of choice.

See passage below.  This is all for now.

*** it-2 pp. 129-130 Judas ***
Became Corrupt. Near Passover 32 C.E., Judas, with the other apostles, was sent out preaching. (Mt 10:1, 4, 5) Shortly after Judas’ return, and less than a year after he had been made an apostle, he was publicly denounced by Christ, though not by name. Some disciples left Jesus, being shocked over his teachings, but Peter said that the 12 would stick with Christ. In response Jesus acknowledged that he had chosen the 12 but said: “One of you is a slanderer [Gr., di·aʹbo·los, meaning “devil” or “slanderer”].” The account explains that the one who already was a slanderer was Judas, who “was going to betray him, although one of the twelve.”—Joh 6:66-71.
In connection with this incident John says: “From the beginning Jesus knew . . . who was the one that would betray him.” (Joh 6:64) From Hebrew Scripture prophecies Christ knew that he would be betrayed by a close associate. (Ps 41:9; 109:8; Joh 13:18, 19) God also, by use of his foreknowledge, had seen that such a one would turn traitor, but it is inconsistent with God’s qualities and past dealings to think that Judas had to fail, as if he were predestined. (See FOREKNOWLEDGE, FOREORDINATION.) Rather, as already mentioned, at the beginning of his apostleship Judas was faithful to God and to Jesus. Thus John must have meant that “from the beginning” of when Judas started to go bad, started to give in to imperfection and sinful inclinations, Jesus recognized it. (Joh 2:24, 25; Re 1:1; 2:23) Judas must have known he was the “slanderer” Jesus mentioned, but he continued to travel with Jesus and the faithful apostles and apparently he made no changes.
The Bible does not discuss in detail the motives for his corrupt course, but an incident that occurred on Nisan 9, 33 C.E., five days before Jesus’ death, sheds light on the matter. At Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, Mary, Lazarus’ sister, anointed Jesus with perfumed oil worth 300 denarii, about a year’s wages for a laborer. (Mt 20:2) Judas strongly objected that the oil could have been sold and the money “given to the poor people.” Evidently other apostles merely assented to what seemed to be a valid point, but Jesus rebuked them. Judas’ real reason for objecting was that he cared for the money box and he “was a thief . . . and used to carry off the monies” put in the box. So Judas was a greedy, practicing thief.—Joh 12:2-7; Mt 26:6-12; Mr 14:3-8.
Betrayal Price. Judas was undoubtedly stung by Jesus’ rebuke about the use of money. At this time “Satan entered into Judas,” likely in the sense that the traitorous apostle gave himself in to the will of the Devil, allowing himself to be a tool to carry out Satan’s design to stop Christ. A few days later, on Nisan 12, Judas went to the chief priests and temple captains to see how much they would pay him to betray Jesus, again showing his avarice. (Mt 26:14-16; Mr 14:10, 11; Lu 22:3-6; Joh 13:2) The chief priests had that day met together with “the older men of the people,” the influential men of the Sanhedrin. (Mt 26:3) The temple captains may have been brought in because of their influence and to lend legal flavor to any planned arrest of Jesus."


 

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45 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

But Judas as not predestined to be the betrayer - he chose to be at some point. It would be unloving of Jehovah to predestine someone for destruction. Jehovah gave us all freedom of choice.

And Judas had that freedom of choice just as the Pharisees did, as all those who are wicked  “from youth up”.  Judas was an “anti-christ”, a “son of perdition”.  He had the freedom to change, to be cleansed through Jesus’ teachings but his heart held fast to wickedness.

Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.” 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.  John 13:10-11

Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)  John 6:70-71


Was God the “Father” of the Pharisees?

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:42-44

Christ’s words leading to life were not hidden from the Pharisees or Judas.   They chose to remain wicked and follow in the footsteps of their father, Satan.  Judas was the “seed” of Satan, as were the Pharisees. 

 

And I will put enmity
    between you and the woman,
    and between your seed and hers;
he will crush your head,
    and you will strike his heel.”  Gen 3:15

You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.  Matt 12:34

A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.  Matt 12:35

Even from birth the wicked go astray;
    from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies. Ps 58:3

The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”  Matt 26:24

God already knew who would betray his Son, before Judas was ever born. 

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

He had the freedom to change, to be cleansed through Jesus’ teachings but his heart held fast to wickedness.

But when grace is shown to the wicked,
    they do not learn righteousness;
even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil
    and do not regard the majesty of the Lord.  Isa 26:10

1 hour ago, Witness said:

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:42-44

 

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4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Shortly after Judas’ return, and less than a year after he had been made an apostle, he was publicly denounced by Christ, though not by name.

Christ knew that he would be betrayed by a close associate.

 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.  John 12:4-6

Do you really believe it took Jesus that long to find out that Judas was corrupt?  Jesus, who knew the hearts of men?

Here's another example:

"Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat.  When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven".  At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"  Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?"    Matt 9:2-4

 

4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Rather, as already mentioned, at the beginning of his apostleship Judas was faithful to God and to Jesus. Thus John must have meant that “from the beginning” of when Judas started to go bad, started to give in to imperfection and sinful inclinations, Jesus recognized it.

Firstly, they state it as fact that Judas was faithful to God and Jesus, then make the supposition that John "must have meant" that Jesus didn't recognize Judas as "bad" until almost a year after he chose him, and that this is what is meant by "from the beginning".  Judas belonged to Satan "from the beginning" as his spawn,  right along with the Pharisees.

 Watchtower’s leaders are so adept at lessening  and hiding the power of Christ; yet, he predicted Peter’s denial of the Christ before Peter fulfilled his words. Luke 22:34    He was a prophet AND the Son of God;  have JWs forgotten this?

I hope you can reason on this through the scriptures, Melinda.  

 

 

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If Christ, who is one in Spirit with the Father (John 17:22),  did not know who would betray him when choosing the 12 apostles, then how does the uninspired GB know they are the "faithful and discreet slave"?    Luke 3:8; Matt 7:16

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    • By The Librarian
      Special Notice: This is a controversial page. The views expressed by Raymond Franz are his alone and do not represent the views of this website or it's readers. It is included here for historical and archival reasons in holding with the truth of the events of the early 1980's - The Librarian
      Raymond Victor Franz (May 8, 1922 – June 2, 2010) was a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses from 20 October 1971 until 22 May 1980,[1][2] and served at the organization's world headquarters for fifteen years, from 1965 until 1980. Franz claimed the request for his resignation and his subsequent disfellowshipping resulted from allegations of his apostasy from the faith.[3] Franz wrote two books that related his personal experiences with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and his views on Jehovah's Witnesses teachings.
      He was the principal author of the book Aid to Bible Understanding which was replaced in 1988 by the Insight on the Scriptures


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      Franz was born in 1922. His uncle, Frederick Franz, was influential in the religion's development, practices and doctrines.[4] His father associated with the Bible Student movement (from which Jehovah's Witnesses developed) and was baptized in 1913. Raymond joined the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1938, and became a baptized member in 1939.[5]

      In 1944 Franz graduated from Gilead, the religion's school for training missionaries,[6] and temporarily served the organization as a traveling representative in the continental U.S. until receiving a missionary assignment to Puerto Rico in 1946. Franz became a representative of Jehovah's Witnesses throughout the Caribbean, traveling to the Virgin Islands and the Dominican Republic, at least until 1957 when Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in the Dominican Republic by dictator Rafael Trujillo.[7] At the age of 37 Franz married his wife, Cynthia, who joined him on missionary work. Both returned to the Dominican Republic in 1961 to evangelize for four more years before taking up work at Watch Tower headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.[8]

      Franz began working in the organization's writing department and was assigned to collaboratively write Aid to Bible Understanding, the first religious encyclopedia published by Jehovah's Witnesses. On 20 October 1971 he was appointed as a member of the Governing Body.[9] In his personal memoir Franz said that at the end of 1979 he reached a personal crossroad:
       

      Frustrated by what he viewed as the Governing Body's dogmatism and overemphasis on traditional views rather than reliance on the Bible in reaching doctrinal decisions, Franz and his wife decided in late 1979 they would leave the international headquarters.[11]
       

      TIME magazine February 22, 1982
      Expulsion
      In March 1980 Franz and his wife took leave of absence from the world headquarters for health reasons and moved to Alabama, where he took up laboring work on a property owned by a fellow Witness. The following month a committee of the Governing Body raised concerns over the spreading of "wrong teachings" emanating from headquarters staff and began questioning headquarters staff on their beliefs. Staff were also questioned about comments Franz had made that may have contradicted Watch Tower doctrine.[12][13] The 15 March 1980 issue of The Watchtower issued a statement of regret that its assertions of probability of Armageddon arriving before 1975 had "apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of expectation already initiated."[14] It told disappointed Jehovah's Witnesses, "including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centred on that date" to "concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint".[15] This statement, which placed blame for the disappointment about 1975 on Raymond Franz and his writing committee, precipitated a purge of that committee and eventual disfellowshipping of its sometime Chairman.[16] On May 8 1980 Franz was told that he had been implicated as an apostate.[17] He was called back to Brooklyn on May 20 for two days of questioning[18] by the Chairman's Committee. Franz claimed the discussion concerned allegations that some Witnesses were meeting privately to discuss various teachings of the Watch Tower Society that may have constituted apostasy.

      On 21 May 1980 Franz was called to a Governing Body session, questioned for three hours about his Bible viewpoints and commitment to Watch Tower doctrines[2][19] and agreed to a request to resign from the Governing Body and headquarters staff. Franz refused the Watch Tower Society's offer of a monthly stipend as a member of the "Infirm Special Pioneers".[20] The Governing Body investigation resulted in the disfellowshipping of several other headquarters staff.[21][22][23]

      On 1 September 1980 the Governing Body distributed a letter to all Circuit and District overseers stating that apostates need not be promoting doctrines to be disfellowshipped. The letter stated that individuals who persisted in "believing other doctrine despite scriptural reproof" were also apostatizing and therefore warranted "appropriate judicial action".[18][24]

      On 18 March 1981 Franz's employer in Alabama submitted a letter of disassociation from Jehovah's Witnesses. A Watchtower article on 15 September 1981 announced a change of policy on disassociation, directing that those who formally withdrew from the religion were to be treated by Witnesses as a disfellowshipped wrongdoer.[25] Franz, who continued to socialize with his employer, was summoned to a judicial hearing on 25 November and disfellowshiped for disobeying the edict.[2][26][27] Determined to set the record straight, not only with respect to his having been disfellowshiped, but with respect to larger doctrinal issues, in 1982 he sent Heather and Gary Botting proofs of his upcoming book Crisis of Conscience so that they could chronicle the more widespread discord within the Watch Tower Society.[28] They wrote regarding Franz's contribution to their expose on the Witnesses that his recommendations "undoubtedly strengthened the veracity of the text; we were impressed by his insistence on both fairness and frankness with respect to representing the view of the Watch Tower Society."[29] Following his disfellowshiping, Franz published two books—Crisis of Conscience (1983) and In Search of Christian Freedom (1991)—presenting detailed accounts of his experiences as a Jehovah's Witness, a Governing Body member, and his experiences throughout various levels of the organization.

      Franz was ultimately disfellowshipped for having dinner with his employer, a disassociated brother. See also this video
      Our Kingdom Service, August 1980 announced when he left the GB and Bethel.
      Death
      On 30 May 2010, at age 88, Franz fell and suffered a brain hemorrhage.[30] He died on 2 June 2010.[30]

      References
      "Announcements", Our Kingdom Ministry, August 1980, page 2, "This is a notification that Raymond Victor Franz is no longer a member of the Governing Body and of the Brooklyn Bethel family as of May 22, 1980." "Witness Under Prosecution", Richard H. Ostling, Anne Constable, Time Magazine, February 22, 1982. "Church Told to Break Privacy, Report 'Sinner'", by John Dart, Los Angeles Times, August 27, 1987. Part 1."Church Told to Break Privacy, Report 'Sinner'", part 2. Rogerson 1969, p. 66 Franz 2002, p. 11 "Gilead’s 61st Graduation a Spiritual Treat", The Watchtower, November 1, 1976, page 671. Franz 2002, p. 16 Franz 2002, pp. 19, 20 Franz 2002, p. 31 Franz 2002, p. 273 Franz 2002, p. 274,275 Penton 1997, pp. 119–121 Franz 2002, p. 298,299 p. 17 pp. 17-18 The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses, pp. 48-49, 158-163 Franz 2002, pp. 312, 313 Beverley 1986, p. 71 Franz 2002, p. 331 Franz 2002, p. 332 Penton 1997, p. 121 Botting & Botting 1984, p. 161 "Branch Letter", Our Kingdom Ministry, August 1980, "We are saddened to report at this time that five members of the Bethel family, and a few others in the New York city area have recently been disfellowshiped. There has been some apostasy against the organization and the promoting of sectarian divisions in some of the congregations of God’s people. (Titus 3:9-11) Living as we are in times difficult to deal with, it should not be surprising that such things occur. The first-century congregation also experienced deviations as we well know from our reading of the Holy Scriptures.—1 Tim. 1:20; 4:1; 2 Tim. 2:17, 18; 1 Cor. 15:12, 13; Acts 20:29, 30." Protecting the Flock, Watch Tower Society letter to district and circuit overseers, September 1, 1980, part 1. Protecting the Flock, Part 2. "Disfellowshiping — How to View It", The Watchtower, September 15, 1981, page 23, "One who has been a true Christian might renounce the way of the truth, stating that he no longer considers himself to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or wants to be known as one. When this rare event occurs, the person is renouncing his standing as a Christian, deliberately disassociating himself from the congregation ... Persons who make themselves 'not of our sort' by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing." Franz 2002, pp. 357–369 "Expelled Witnesses Claim Group is Ingrown", Miami News, March 19, 1983. the Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses, pp. 161-63 The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses,p. xxiii "Obituary". Legacy.com. Bibliography
      Beverley, James A. (1986). Crisis of Allegiance. Burlington, Ontario: Welch Publishing Company. ISBN 0-920413-37-4. Botting, Heather; Botting, Gary (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. Franz, Raymond (2002). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. J. (1997). Apocalypse Delayed (2nd ed.). University of Toronto Press. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Rogerson, Alan (1969). Millions Now Living Will Never Die: A Study of Jehovah's Witnesses. Constable & Co, London. ISBN 0-0945-5940-6. External Links
      Richard N. Ostling (February 22, 1982), "Religion: Witness Under Prosecution", Time magazine. Raymond Franz at Find a Grave  
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Tras pasar 11 años dentro de los testigos de Jehová, un exmiembro de la secta religiosa decidió huir de la organización y emprender un viaje de cinco años a través de toda Rusia y el espacio postsoviético.
      Iván Shiriáyev, que es oriundo de la ciudad de Kamyshin (Volgogrado, Rusia), se ganó el prestigio y reconocimiento de los testigos de Jehová durante sus 11 años como miembro de la organización religiosa. No obstante, un día decidió abandonar la secta y dejar atrás tanto la doctrina que predicaba, como a su esposa, devota a las creencias de aquella.
      "Siempre dudaba de si estaba siguiendo el camino correcto", reveló Shiriáyev en una entrevista concedida al portal The Village. Durante su membresía en la secta el hombre apenas tuvo tiempo para analizar sus dudas en profundidad, ya que dedicaba casi todo el tiempo libre –lo cual no era poco teniendo en cuenta que trabajaba unas pocas horas al día, justo lo necesario "para ganarse el pan y la leche"– a oraciones, predicación y actividades de la organización. La salida de la secta empezó a fraguarse con el libro 'Crisis de conciencia' del exmiembro del cuerpo gobernante de los testigos de Jehová Raymond Franz.
      Shiriáyev llevaba más de un año considerando la idea de salir de la secta. Las obras de Franz, "probablemente la persona más temible en el universo después de satán [para los testigos de Jehová]", le ayudaron a entender cómo funciona la organización.
      Un día cotidiano en el seno de la secta
      Un día típico de un testigo de Jehová empieza con la lectura del folleto 'Examinando las Escrituras diariamente' y con oraciones, explica el exmiembro de la organización. El trabajo de la vida mundana no adquiere mucha importancia para los testigos, que tratan de dedicarle el menor tiempo posible. La ocupación principal es predicar. "Sirves varias horas, vuelves a casa, te preparas para una reunión y te vas a la cama", señala Shiriáyev.
      Cuando estaba en las filas de la secta, las reuniones tenían lugar dos o tres veces a la semana y contaban con la participación de unas 30 personas. "Entre los testigos siempre te sientes culpable, por eso muchos padecen depresión", indica. Los miembros de la secta constantemente se enfrentan a la pregunta de si podrían hacer más y 'robar' tiempo de asuntos menos importantes para dedicarse aún más a su misión.
      Convencidos de que el Armagedón se acerca y solo 144.000 personas se dirigirán al cielo después de la muerte mientras el resto se queda en la Tierra, los testigos de Jehová tienen como objetivo principal divulgar este acontecimiento a todo el mundo. Y la predicación es la forma principal de lograr este fin.
      Cada mes los miembros de la secta presentan un informe donde indican cuántas horas han servido y cuántos materiales religiosos han difundido. "Existen miembros experimentados que, por ejemplo, predican no menos de 70 horas al mes", comenta Shiriáyev, quien ejerció a lo largo de ocho años. También existe un sistema de incentivos y castigos que pueden estimular tanto el crecimiento en la jerarquía de la secta, como la privación de los privilegios. El castigo más duro es la expulsión.
      En cuanto al perfil de los miembros, la mayoría de los testigos de Jehová son personas sin estudios superiores (la educación superior no es bienvenida en la organización). En las reuniones solo el 20% son hombres. El resto son mujeres jóvenes, mujeres con niños y ancianas, menciona Shiriáyev. El matrimonio civil está prohibido y los matrimonios con personas ajenas a la organización no están bien vistos.
      La fuga
      La escapada de este ciudadano ruso fue radical: simuló su muerte. Dejó una nota de despedida señalando que había seguido el camino de su padre (que se suicidó tres años atrás) y se esfumó. Se fue a su casa de campo con un magnetófono, una manta y una lancha neumática. Tras encontrar la embarcación en un sótano entre basura, sus familiares se dieron cuenta de que Shiriáyev estaba vivo e iniciaron su búsqueda a nivel federal.
      El hombre pasó nueve meses de vida ordinaria, utilizando su pasaporte en los nuevos puestos de trabajo que desempeñó y no fue consciente de que lo buscaran. Lo encontraron por casualidad en un puesto de control en la región de Amur, cuando fue detenido probablemente al sospecharse de que había participado en saqueos en unas aldeas que sufrieron inundaciones.
      Desde entonces dejó de ser objeto de búsquedas. "Nadie –ni mi mujer, ni los decanos– se esforzó en encontrarme", señaló Shiriáyev. Solo un amigo suyo, extestigo también, trató de avanzar en su búsqueda. "Así me di cuenta de que no tenía amigos", explicó el prófugo.
      La expulsión
      Shiriáyev constató de manera escrita que ya no quería seguir siendo testigo de Jehová y se presentó a la reunión de la secta donde la noticia fue anunciada oficialmente con un traje de boda para celebrarlo. Paralelamente, su matrimonio fracasaba.
      Una vez al año acude a la celebración anual de los testigos, la Conmemoración de la muerte de Jesús o Cena del Señor, con una cazadora que lleva la inscripción 'apóstata abyecto'. "Los que me conocen se apartan de mí de un salto: ¿cómo puede salvarse un renegado? Pero para mí es una actuación anual", explica Shiriáyev. Entre las ventajas de su membresía en los testigos de Jehová señala las destrezas adquiridas en en el terreno de la comunicación y los discursos públicos y que ha aprendido a vivir con modestia.
      El viaje
      El 27 de octubre de 2012 Shiriáyev abandonó su casa y empezó a viajar haciendo autostop.
      Tras su viaje por Rusia, Ucrania y Bielorrusia ha visitado numerosas ciudades. De las 1.122 localidades rusas que planea visitar ya ha estado en 360 de ellas. Se ha hecho agnóstico, viaja con una mochila que pesa 20 kilos y no cuenta con patrocinadores influyentes: utiliza sus propios medios para cubrir los gastos. Trabaja de obrero, de vez en cuando recibe alimentos, ropa y otras donaciones de desconocidos y pasa las noches básicamente en sitios donde no tiene que pagar la estancia: en casas de otros viajeros, monasterios o paradas de transporte. Su viaje de cinco años todavía no ha terminado y no tiene claro qué le deparará el futuro.
      https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/221714-testigo-jehova-huir-viajar-rusia
    • By Jack Ryan
      Crisis of Conscience is a book written by a former member of the Governing Body, Raymond Franz
       
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
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