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Inspired Choices? Jesus Picked Judas; Governing Body Picked Raymond Franz;

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

Well true, but nothing changed, only fulfilled in the one man's teachings.  

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.   Matt 5:17-19

I mean on change that is visible in aspects as; Kill "apostates"  vs turn the other cheek, love your enemies, etc. :)   100% change

The man who acts presumptuously by not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the Lord your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.

“If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones.

David prayer against his enemies:

May the table set before them become a snare;
    may it become retribution and a trap.
23 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
    and their backs be bent forever.
24 Pour out your wrath on them;
    let your fierce anger overtake them.
25 May their place be deserted;
    let there be no one to dwell in their tents.
26 For they persecute those you wound
    and talk about the pain of those you hurt.
27 Charge them with crime upon crime;
    do not let them share in your salvation.
28 May they be blotted out of the book of life
    and not be listed with the righteous.

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20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I mean on change that is visible in aspects as; Kill "apostates"  vs turn the other cheek, love your enemies, etc. :)   100% change

I think I see now what you’re saying.    Jesus raised the bar to exceed the written laws given to the Jews, allowing sinless perfection in love to be obtained through the writing of the laws on the heart. Heb 10:9-18  He introduced a New Covenant, one where we worship in spirit and truth, sanctifying us through truth. 

The Pharisees were good at tweaking, bending and adding to God’s laws, making the load impossible for the people bear.  It all sounds very familiar 😊   The organization has done the same thing with the teachings of Christ.  It spiritually murders, steals, covets and commits spiritual adultery by bending Christ’s decrees to be supplemented by the decrees of men.  A mediator for salvation comes between Christ and ourselves – the organization. 

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.  Rom 13:8-10

Yet, if this new “law” in Christ is broken, God’s Spirit of protection is removed and condemnation follows.  God has given the judgment to Christ, but the executor is Satan, the Destroyer, and always has been. 1 Cor 10:8-11 

I always remember Moses’ words to a stubborn people, forever sinning against God’s decrees  

I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”  Deut 30:19

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6

While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!”  Matt 17:5

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On 1/30/2019 at 10:33 AM, Witness said:

Well true, but nothing changed, only fulfilled in the one man's teachings.  

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.   Matt 5:17-19

 

Both.  :)  Isa 46:10; Prov 24:12; 1 John 3:20

 

Who understands God's thinking.? Only Christ does.  If we deviate whatsoever from his teachings, how can we even begin to understand God's thinking? 

“Who is this that obscures my plans
    with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
    I will question you,
    and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
    Tell me, if you understand.  Job 38:1-4

 

People can understand God's way of thinking also mainly when it comes to decisions and other things, Witness. An example would be making a choice of something that isnt of Jehovah God's thinking vs. Something of man's thinking. 

In School, they teach us that homosexuality and transgender is okay and these teachers encourage teens to teach children this.

Clearly this isn't okay, and this isn't okay with God. Man's thinking will allow him or her to accept this whereas Jehovah's thinking allows us to make the right choice in this example and other things. 

I dunno if you are aware of what's being taught to toddlers nowadays. One group in particular I often see on media and social media is queer kids group, they often go after those who are against them. They also try to use the Bible to justify homosexuality. 

You and I both know God detests homosexuality and Jesus does not accept this either, reasons why these guys who support that stuff has time to turn a leaf, repent and change. I only preached to one homosexual once, but his buddies were Bible bashing weeks later and he stopped the discussion later on.

Side note, Jesus' disciples and followers applied God's way of thinking. Why assume it was only Jesus lol?

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15 hours ago, Equivocation said:

People can understand God's way of thinking also mainly when it comes to decisions and other things, Witness. An example would be making a choice of something that isnt of Jehovah God's thinking vs. Something of man's thinking. 

 

Side note, Jesus' disciples and followers applied God's way of thinking. Why assume it was only Jesus lol?

Thank you for your thoughts.

I believe applying God’s decrees is different than actually knowing Him as a child of God.  Do I know Him enough to understand what it means to praise His name?  I am on the ground floor of comprehending  God as My Rock; since for many years, even though I spoke as such, I relied on an earthly entity to be my “rock”, my fortress. 

Comments by the organization divert the attention from the Rock, to itself:

“As mountains have permanence and are identified often in Scripture with governmental functions, so God’s haven of refuge today is to be found with his theocratic organization.  w82 9/15 pp. 17-22 

I cannot see a clear demarcation between the way the Watchtower corporation is run and the “functions” it provides, and any other governmental function.   Run by a “governing” body, who declare that the “mountainlike organization” is the only source of salvation, can you really believe this shows its leaders have full knowledge of the Father when they exalt the name of an organization, as a “haven of refuge”?  Can I trust such a leadership that robs God of due praise and glory by placing it on something established in Satan’s world?  Do we have two havens of refuge, two choices of salvation?

 “With whom will you compare Me or count me equal? To whom will you liken me that we may be compared?  Isa 46:5

In God is my salvation and my glory; The rock of my strength, And my refugeis in God.  Ps 62:7

“I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortressMy God, in Him I will trust.”  Ps 91:2

Now, I realize the blasphemy of labeling anything earthly as a “haven of refuge”, when only the Father can hold that title.  I am a child who is just beginning to understand and fear the true God.

Jesus said,

“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” 

The Pharisees asked Jesus,

 “Where is your father?”   You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”  John 8:19

The Pharisees and Sadducees knew and taught God’s decrees, but still Jesus told them they didn’t “know” the Father, because they didn’t accept Jesus.  This taught me an important point; even though I spoke about God and Christ, I was far from knowing either one of them while in the organization.

Yes, the apostles learned about God through Christ.  We can see through scripture that it was progressive.  When I said no one knows the Father except Christ, I was thinking more of my circumstances, and all the anointed during this time period before the end.  I should have been more specific.  The faithful anointed throughout years are fully one in Christ, who is one in the Lord.  John 17:22  They carry the name of God and Christ.  Rev 3:12  They “know” God and the power of His name. 

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.   John 14:6

I take this seriously.  In order for me to know the Father as His erring child, I must know Christ.  I let go of a “governmental function” and turned my attention to Jesus…AND the Father. 

“But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christand be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.”  Phil 3:7-14

When I rejected the organization, where the anointed spiritual “Israel” resides, this is what happened:

 “All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.   John 16:2,3

Disfellowshipping is a spiritual “killing”, directed by the elders who say they are “offering a service to God” by ousting those who turn fully to Christ.  I view this fulfillment as stepping on the right path to “know” not only Jesus Christ, but also the Father. 

By believing that the organization is a “haven and refuge”, one is “marked” by that name.  By believing that only God is our Rock, I hope to be “marked” by God’s name – to be be found  faithful and victorious in upholding and bearing His name and the name of His Son.  Then, I will confidently “know” God.  Rev 3:8,12

We cannot bear the mark/identity of an organization that we may love…

The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?” Rev 13:4

The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander His name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. Rev 13:5,6

…which disfellowships those who refuse to bear its identifying “mark”, expecting them to only “buy” their brand of spiritual food…

It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.  Rev 13:16,17

and also bear the “mark” of God:

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is oneLove the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheadsWrite them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates. 

To begin knowing God and His decrees/commandments fulfilled in Christ, we must begin by knowing, and turning to, Jesus Christ.  I fully believe it can’t be accomplished in the Watchtower organization that relies heavily on the thinking of men.

 

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@Witness And yet my view and morals still stand on the issue. Have you changed anyone's life who supports such things?

There's people out there who use the Bible to justify homosexuality, and this blew up since the day the cake shop owner threw hands before Court. 

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3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@Witness And yet my view and morals still stand on the issue. Have you changed anyone's life who supports such things?

There's people out there who use the Bible to justify homosexuality, and this blew up since the day the cake shop owner threw hands before Court. 

Which things?  It's not the question of who's life I change, but who are changed by truth in scripture.  

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Inspired Choices? Jesus Picked Judas; Governing Body Picked Raymond Franz;

I wouldnt say either choice was inspired.

But as a parrallel situation, yes this is an excellent comparison

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5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Inspired Choices? Jesus Picked Judas; Governing Body Picked Raymond Franz;

I wouldnt say either choice was inspired.

But as a parrallel situation, yes this is an excellent comparison

How are they an excellent comparison on a parallel level?   One aided in bringing Christ to his death.  Ray became a disciple of Christ, not of men.     One was the son of destruction; what did Ray "destroy"?    The GB are not apostles.  There is no comparison.  

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8 minutes ago, Witness said:

How are they an excellent comparison on a parallel level? 

They just are so similar, and the circumstances also, absolutely perfect. Whoever thought of combining them in one sentence is a genius, maybe without realising it at all. The choice may not be inspired, but the topic.....Maybe it was!

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1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

They just are so similar, and the circumstances also, absolutely perfect. Whoever thought of combining them in one sentence is a genius, maybe without realising it at all. The choice may not be inspired, but the topic.....Maybe it was!

In other words, you are saying that Ray Franz is a son of destruction.  Who or what did he "destroy"?  The perfect circumstance is when an anointed in Christ is spiritually "killed"/disfellowshipped  by the organization's leaders, for giving testimony about the Christ and truth.  John 16:2; Rev  13:15  In this way, they begin walking in a similar path of persecution that he did at the hands of the Pharisees.  Luke 12:8-12; John 15:20

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    • By The Librarian
      Special Notice: This is a controversial page. The views expressed by Raymond Franz are his alone and do not represent the views of this website or it's readers. It is included here for historical and archival reasons in holding with the truth of the events of the early 1980's - The Librarian
      Raymond Victor Franz (May 8, 1922 – June 2, 2010) was a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses from 20 October 1971 until 22 May 1980,[1][2] and served at the organization's world headquarters for fifteen years, from 1965 until 1980. Franz claimed the request for his resignation and his subsequent disfellowshipping resulted from allegations of his apostasy from the faith.[3] Franz wrote two books that related his personal experiences with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and his views on Jehovah's Witnesses teachings.
      He was the principal author of the book Aid to Bible Understanding which was replaced in 1988 by the Insight on the Scriptures


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      Franz was born in 1922. His uncle, Frederick Franz, was influential in the religion's development, practices and doctrines.[4] His father associated with the Bible Student movement (from which Jehovah's Witnesses developed) and was baptized in 1913. Raymond joined the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1938, and became a baptized member in 1939.[5]

      In 1944 Franz graduated from Gilead, the religion's school for training missionaries,[6] and temporarily served the organization as a traveling representative in the continental U.S. until receiving a missionary assignment to Puerto Rico in 1946. Franz became a representative of Jehovah's Witnesses throughout the Caribbean, traveling to the Virgin Islands and the Dominican Republic, at least until 1957 when Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in the Dominican Republic by dictator Rafael Trujillo.[7] At the age of 37 Franz married his wife, Cynthia, who joined him on missionary work. Both returned to the Dominican Republic in 1961 to evangelize for four more years before taking up work at Watch Tower headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.[8]

      Franz began working in the organization's writing department and was assigned to collaboratively write Aid to Bible Understanding, the first religious encyclopedia published by Jehovah's Witnesses. On 20 October 1971 he was appointed as a member of the Governing Body.[9] In his personal memoir Franz said that at the end of 1979 he reached a personal crossroad:
       

      Frustrated by what he viewed as the Governing Body's dogmatism and overemphasis on traditional views rather than reliance on the Bible in reaching doctrinal decisions, Franz and his wife decided in late 1979 they would leave the international headquarters.[11]
       

      TIME magazine February 22, 1982
      Expulsion
      In March 1980 Franz and his wife took leave of absence from the world headquarters for health reasons and moved to Alabama, where he took up laboring work on a property owned by a fellow Witness. The following month a committee of the Governing Body raised concerns over the spreading of "wrong teachings" emanating from headquarters staff and began questioning headquarters staff on their beliefs. Staff were also questioned about comments Franz had made that may have contradicted Watch Tower doctrine.[12][13] The 15 March 1980 issue of The Watchtower issued a statement of regret that its assertions of probability of Armageddon arriving before 1975 had "apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of expectation already initiated."[14] It told disappointed Jehovah's Witnesses, "including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centred on that date" to "concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint".[15] This statement, which placed blame for the disappointment about 1975 on Raymond Franz and his writing committee, precipitated a purge of that committee and eventual disfellowshipping of its sometime Chairman.[16] On May 8 1980 Franz was told that he had been implicated as an apostate.[17] He was called back to Brooklyn on May 20 for two days of questioning[18] by the Chairman's Committee. Franz claimed the discussion concerned allegations that some Witnesses were meeting privately to discuss various teachings of the Watch Tower Society that may have constituted apostasy.

      On 21 May 1980 Franz was called to a Governing Body session, questioned for three hours about his Bible viewpoints and commitment to Watch Tower doctrines[2][19] and agreed to a request to resign from the Governing Body and headquarters staff. Franz refused the Watch Tower Society's offer of a monthly stipend as a member of the "Infirm Special Pioneers".[20] The Governing Body investigation resulted in the disfellowshipping of several other headquarters staff.[21][22][23]

      On 1 September 1980 the Governing Body distributed a letter to all Circuit and District overseers stating that apostates need not be promoting doctrines to be disfellowshipped. The letter stated that individuals who persisted in "believing other doctrine despite scriptural reproof" were also apostatizing and therefore warranted "appropriate judicial action".[18][24]

      On 18 March 1981 Franz's employer in Alabama submitted a letter of disassociation from Jehovah's Witnesses. A Watchtower article on 15 September 1981 announced a change of policy on disassociation, directing that those who formally withdrew from the religion were to be treated by Witnesses as a disfellowshipped wrongdoer.[25] Franz, who continued to socialize with his employer, was summoned to a judicial hearing on 25 November and disfellowshiped for disobeying the edict.[2][26][27] Determined to set the record straight, not only with respect to his having been disfellowshiped, but with respect to larger doctrinal issues, in 1982 he sent Heather and Gary Botting proofs of his upcoming book Crisis of Conscience so that they could chronicle the more widespread discord within the Watch Tower Society.[28] They wrote regarding Franz's contribution to their expose on the Witnesses that his recommendations "undoubtedly strengthened the veracity of the text; we were impressed by his insistence on both fairness and frankness with respect to representing the view of the Watch Tower Society."[29] Following his disfellowshiping, Franz published two books—Crisis of Conscience (1983) and In Search of Christian Freedom (1991)—presenting detailed accounts of his experiences as a Jehovah's Witness, a Governing Body member, and his experiences throughout various levels of the organization.

      Franz was ultimately disfellowshipped for having dinner with his employer, a disassociated brother. See also this video
      Our Kingdom Service, August 1980 announced when he left the GB and Bethel.
      Death
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      References
      "Announcements", Our Kingdom Ministry, August 1980, page 2, "This is a notification that Raymond Victor Franz is no longer a member of the Governing Body and of the Brooklyn Bethel family as of May 22, 1980." "Witness Under Prosecution", Richard H. Ostling, Anne Constable, Time Magazine, February 22, 1982. "Church Told to Break Privacy, Report 'Sinner'", by John Dart, Los Angeles Times, August 27, 1987. Part 1."Church Told to Break Privacy, Report 'Sinner'", part 2. Rogerson 1969, p. 66 Franz 2002, p. 11 "Gilead’s 61st Graduation a Spiritual Treat", The Watchtower, November 1, 1976, page 671. Franz 2002, p. 16 Franz 2002, pp. 19, 20 Franz 2002, p. 31 Franz 2002, p. 273 Franz 2002, p. 274,275 Penton 1997, pp. 119–121 Franz 2002, p. 298,299 p. 17 pp. 17-18 The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses, pp. 48-49, 158-163 Franz 2002, pp. 312, 313 Beverley 1986, p. 71 Franz 2002, p. 331 Franz 2002, p. 332 Penton 1997, p. 121 Botting & Botting 1984, p. 161 "Branch Letter", Our Kingdom Ministry, August 1980, "We are saddened to report at this time that five members of the Bethel family, and a few others in the New York city area have recently been disfellowshiped. There has been some apostasy against the organization and the promoting of sectarian divisions in some of the congregations of God’s people. (Titus 3:9-11) Living as we are in times difficult to deal with, it should not be surprising that such things occur. The first-century congregation also experienced deviations as we well know from our reading of the Holy Scriptures.—1 Tim. 1:20; 4:1; 2 Tim. 2:17, 18; 1 Cor. 15:12, 13; Acts 20:29, 30." Protecting the Flock, Watch Tower Society letter to district and circuit overseers, September 1, 1980, part 1. Protecting the Flock, Part 2. "Disfellowshiping — How to View It", The Watchtower, September 15, 1981, page 23, "One who has been a true Christian might renounce the way of the truth, stating that he no longer considers himself to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or wants to be known as one. When this rare event occurs, the person is renouncing his standing as a Christian, deliberately disassociating himself from the congregation ... Persons who make themselves 'not of our sort' by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing." Franz 2002, pp. 357–369 "Expelled Witnesses Claim Group is Ingrown", Miami News, March 19, 1983. the Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses, pp. 161-63 The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses,p. xxiii "Obituary". Legacy.com. Bibliography
      Beverley, James A. (1986). Crisis of Allegiance. Burlington, Ontario: Welch Publishing Company. ISBN 0-920413-37-4. Botting, Heather; Botting, Gary (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. Franz, Raymond (2002). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. J. (1997). Apocalypse Delayed (2nd ed.). University of Toronto Press. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Rogerson, Alan (1969). Millions Now Living Will Never Die: A Study of Jehovah's Witnesses. Constable & Co, London. ISBN 0-0945-5940-6. External Links
      Richard N. Ostling (February 22, 1982), "Religion: Witness Under Prosecution", Time magazine. Raymond Franz at Find a Grave  
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      Convencidos de que el Armagedón se acerca y solo 144.000 personas se dirigirán al cielo después de la muerte mientras el resto se queda en la Tierra, los testigos de Jehová tienen como objetivo principal divulgar este acontecimiento a todo el mundo. Y la predicación es la forma principal de lograr este fin.
      Cada mes los miembros de la secta presentan un informe donde indican cuántas horas han servido y cuántos materiales religiosos han difundido. "Existen miembros experimentados que, por ejemplo, predican no menos de 70 horas al mes", comenta Shiriáyev, quien ejerció a lo largo de ocho años. También existe un sistema de incentivos y castigos que pueden estimular tanto el crecimiento en la jerarquía de la secta, como la privación de los privilegios. El castigo más duro es la expulsión.
      En cuanto al perfil de los miembros, la mayoría de los testigos de Jehová son personas sin estudios superiores (la educación superior no es bienvenida en la organización). En las reuniones solo el 20% son hombres. El resto son mujeres jóvenes, mujeres con niños y ancianas, menciona Shiriáyev. El matrimonio civil está prohibido y los matrimonios con personas ajenas a la organización no están bien vistos.
      La fuga
      La escapada de este ciudadano ruso fue radical: simuló su muerte. Dejó una nota de despedida señalando que había seguido el camino de su padre (que se suicidó tres años atrás) y se esfumó. Se fue a su casa de campo con un magnetófono, una manta y una lancha neumática. Tras encontrar la embarcación en un sótano entre basura, sus familiares se dieron cuenta de que Shiriáyev estaba vivo e iniciaron su búsqueda a nivel federal.
      El hombre pasó nueve meses de vida ordinaria, utilizando su pasaporte en los nuevos puestos de trabajo que desempeñó y no fue consciente de que lo buscaran. Lo encontraron por casualidad en un puesto de control en la región de Amur, cuando fue detenido probablemente al sospecharse de que había participado en saqueos en unas aldeas que sufrieron inundaciones.
      Desde entonces dejó de ser objeto de búsquedas. "Nadie –ni mi mujer, ni los decanos– se esforzó en encontrarme", señaló Shiriáyev. Solo un amigo suyo, extestigo también, trató de avanzar en su búsqueda. "Así me di cuenta de que no tenía amigos", explicó el prófugo.
      La expulsión
      Shiriáyev constató de manera escrita que ya no quería seguir siendo testigo de Jehová y se presentó a la reunión de la secta donde la noticia fue anunciada oficialmente con un traje de boda para celebrarlo. Paralelamente, su matrimonio fracasaba.
      Una vez al año acude a la celebración anual de los testigos, la Conmemoración de la muerte de Jesús o Cena del Señor, con una cazadora que lleva la inscripción 'apóstata abyecto'. "Los que me conocen se apartan de mí de un salto: ¿cómo puede salvarse un renegado? Pero para mí es una actuación anual", explica Shiriáyev. Entre las ventajas de su membresía en los testigos de Jehová señala las destrezas adquiridas en en el terreno de la comunicación y los discursos públicos y que ha aprendido a vivir con modestia.
      El viaje
      El 27 de octubre de 2012 Shiriáyev abandonó su casa y empezó a viajar haciendo autostop.
      Tras su viaje por Rusia, Ucrania y Bielorrusia ha visitado numerosas ciudades. De las 1.122 localidades rusas que planea visitar ya ha estado en 360 de ellas. Se ha hecho agnóstico, viaja con una mochila que pesa 20 kilos y no cuenta con patrocinadores influyentes: utiliza sus propios medios para cubrir los gastos. Trabaja de obrero, de vez en cuando recibe alimentos, ropa y otras donaciones de desconocidos y pasa las noches básicamente en sitios donde no tiene que pagar la estancia: en casas de otros viajeros, monasterios o paradas de transporte. Su viaje de cinco años todavía no ha terminado y no tiene claro qué le deparará el futuro.
      https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/221714-testigo-jehova-huir-viajar-rusia
    • By Jack Ryan
      Crisis of Conscience is a book written by a former member of the Governing Body, Raymond Franz
       
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
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    • What you expect is Santa Claus This is infuriating to me. Such whiners think only of themselves. They “admitted” it long ago and if you didn’t think you were Perry Mason angling confession from the courtroom spectator you would see that. From the Revelation Climax book, published in 1988: “It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8)” Call those the words of people who think they cannot be wrong? For the life of me, I don’t know why this is so hard. It is as though grown adults are determined to make themselves children. Since the writers plainly state up front that they could be wrong, I take everything in that spirit. I strive to get my head around whatever they are saying & and discern how they came to think as they do because I do not want to be like Diotrophes, who “receives nothing from us with respect.” But it is all tentative—it represents to me the best thinking out there. It doesn’t mean that nobody else can think. However, since detractors here have NOTHING to show for themselves other than grumbling over how they would like to see things different, I take whatever they offer with that in mind. The GB is vigilant and they take their shepherding role seriously. They do not want to find themselves in the shoes of Lot, whose sons-in-law thought he was joking. That is why they do not say: “Here is our latest thinking. It’s probably no good, but see what you think.” No. They state what they state in recognition that “interpretations belong to God” and that they are doing their best to figure those things out.  
    • Yep, Armageddon is gonna happen any minute now, let's build a multi billion dollar luxury compound for the faithful slave for the long haul.
    • 7:26 But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely. 27 “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’   28 “This is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts alarmed me greatly, so that I turned pale; but I kept the matter in my own heart.”
    • Does anyone remember about 4 years ago when someone came on this forum (jw-archive.org at the time) and said they had just been through real estate training for the Society, because the Society, they said, was going to be one of the biggest buyers and sellers of real estate? I got the impression that this person was already preparing for their specific assignment with an assigned partner to scout out better places purchase KH properties somewhere in the U.S. That person gave the impression that this was about to kick off all around the United States, perhaps even further abroad. That was many months before the Society announced their cash flow problems, and long before we started hearing about the sales of so many KHs and even a couple of AHs.  This is no doubt correct. The Society did the same thing in the Brooklyn area, as sometimes they would need to bring in a brother who had his family with him. There was also a need to house certain elderly brothers and sisters in a place where they could get physical therapy, nursing visits, palliative care, etc., with some privacy and out of the way of the hustle and bustle of Bethel life.
    • All you really must remember is that if you got ot wrong back then you would be dismembered and your house turned into a public privy. (Daniel 2:5, 3:29) It is Holy Spirit by the truckload. Anyone else takes a wrong understanding to his grave, either through natural death or walking off a precipice with it and leading others with him.  Holy Spirit makes people honest, humble, and hungry enough to continually look at Scriptures anew in light of ongoing developments. Go read @b4ucuhear‘s comment again, not just the single sentence you quoted. Read all of them. Notice how they tie together and modify each other. That is what sentences do.
    • So the " great crowd"  will learn all things by themselves?  They do not need an organized  place to attend meetings? .... which is instructed by the bible to attend so we can strengthen each other? This is why I call you out as misleading and false....... where is your worldwide organization which is providing place for people of all nations to gather and worship jehovah?  And teach them live and neutrality so they truly view themselves as one nation with no borders dividing them...... There are so many other scriptures which indicate otherwise while you create an argument over the only scripture that 'may' indicate it because of an argument over a preposition....... are you changing the entire truth based on your 'desire' to start 'ruling now?    We are being 'taught ' now by that 'slave'  you hate.     But you may be running ahead about the 1000 year reign..... don't you think?   Don't be patronizing to me..... I know that because of jehovahs spirit working in them.   But the bible clearly indicates that they will judge and rule when they are in heaven......   
    • Nothing is beyond your extreme criticism lol.  Go buy yourself a little patch in London or in any other capital city like New York and see what it costs you.   If they needed a space for someone or a worker, or even for guests or whatever, they would have bought it because it was needed at the time and is now no longer needed.   Says the exceedingly worldly guy......  If they sell the property to help brothers they are wicked and if they buy it to help brothers they are wicked....... do you sound reasonable to yourselves?   Thanks to Jehovah you are not the final judges because you will put all JWs in Auschwitz......just for being JWs..... ah, you may still help the world to do that in future ..... who knows? 
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