Gerrit Lösch

[Srecko Sostar]

23 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Take that as a Yes then?

 Q.   Could you explain, Mr Jackson, the committee structure         35       and how it relates to the Governing Body, which is to say,         36       do the committees report to and are they accountable to the         37       Governing Body as a whole, or how does it work?         38       A.   Thank you, Mr Stewart.  Yes, the Governing Body, as         39       I mentioned, has seven members.  As you would realise, with         40       8.2 million active members of Jehovah's Witnesses, with         41       approximately 20 million associated with us, there is no         42       way that the seven members of the Governing Body can be up         43       to date with all aspects of every part of our work.  So the         44       Governing Body is broken up into various committees.  The         45       committees ‐ there is a measure of trust, obviously,         46       because the men who are appointed on those committees         47       understand something about the operation of those various             .14/08/2015 (155)          15932    G W JACKSON (Mr Stewart)                                  Transcript produced by DTI          1       aspects.          2          3            But if I may also mention something I think the          4       Commission hasn't noticed is that there are a roll of 30          5       helpers and these helpers join us in not the Governing Body          6       committee, but the various subcommittees, and they help us          7       by making recommendations and implementing the policies.          8          9       Q.   Thank you, Mr Jackson.  Is it the case that the         10       helpers also attend the Governing Body meetings that occur         11       weekly, but don't make decisions there?         12       A.   No, they don't normally attend the one meeting the         13       Governing Body has each Wednesday, unless, of course, we         14       need some special input from one of them or from several,         15       and then they may be invited as needed.  But you are         16       correct in saying they do not vote.         17         18       Q.   So is it right to say that the committees then are         19       accountable to the Governing Body?         20       A.   There is a ‐ yes, ultimately, the Governing Body         21       oversees the work of the committees, but there is a measure         22       of trust, obviously, that goes on, mainly ‐ if I could use         23       an example, I would be the last person on earth to ask with         24       regard to construction details, but the publishing         25       committee handles our construction worldwide, and so those         26       that have more familiarity with that type of expertise, we         27       would trust them to go ahead with most of the decisions.  28         29       Q.   You have said that the Governing Body presently has         30       seven members.  How is it determined how many members there         31       will be from time to time?         32       A.   There can be any number of members on the Governing         33       Body.  In the past few decades ‐ for example, when I was         34       appointed on the Governing Body, there were 12 of us.         35       I believe the number has been 18 at one stage.  But the         36       qualifications of a member for the Governing Body ‐ it         37       involves someone who is considered an anointed Witness, who         38       has worked in scriptural, with a scriptural background,         39       either as a missionary or a full‐time servant for many         40       years, and is able to fulfil the role of the Governing         41       Body, which is, may I state, a group, a spiritual group of         42       men who are the guardians of our doctrine, and as guardians         43       of the doctrine, look at things that need to be decided         44       based on our doctrines, which are based on the constitution         45       of the Bible.         46         47       Q.   I take it if the Governing Body is to be increased in             .14/08/2015 (155)          15933    G W JACKSON (Mr Stewart)                                  Transcript produced by DTI          1       size, that that will be a decision of the Governing Body          2       itself?          3       A.   That is correct.  But obviously, we would get          4       information from other fields.          5          6       Q.   And is it the case that the Governing Body then          7       appoints new members of the Governing Body?          8       A.   That is correct.          9         10       Q.   Does someone have a designated role, such as         11       coordinator or chairperson or president?         12       A.   You mean of the Governing Body?         13         14       Q.   Yes.         15       A.   Or do you mean the subcommittees?         16         17       Q.   No, I mean of the Governing Body?         18       A.   Yes.  We rotate each year.  There is a chairman of the         19       Governing Body, but the chairman's role is merely to chair         20       the meetings.         21         22       Q.   So there is no‐one who has a permanent role of         23       coordination or designation such as president or what have         24       you?         25       A.   That is correct.  Only the committees, under the         26       direction of the Governing Body, have a coordinator for         27       each committee.         28         29       Q.   Dealing with decisions of the Governing Body itself,         30       how are decisions made, by which I mean are they made only         31       by consensus or by majority or is there some other system         32       you adopt?         33       A.   So if a policy or a question comes up with regard to         34       doctrine, or something that involves a biblical stand, we         35       will allow someone to come in and present to us all the         36       facts concerning that ‐ obviously the seven involved cannot         37       be familiar with every aspect that we need to consider.  So         38       once the proposal has been given to the Governing Body,         39       it's an agenda point.  Ahead of time, each Governing Body         40       member, with prayer, by means of prayer and reading the         41       Bible, then tries to see how the Bible would affect any         42       particular decision.  So then, in our discussion,         43       generally, from my experience, which has only just been the         44       last 10 years, in most cases it's unanimous.         45         46       Q.   If it's not, then it would be carried by majority; is         47       that right?             .14/08/2015 (155)          15934    G W JACKSON (Mr Stewart)                                  Transcript produced by DTI        

  1       A.   That is the case but, as I said, it's a rare thing,          2       because if someone ‐ perhaps their conscience is not clear          3       or feel comfortable with a certain decision, then more          4       often than not, we would rely upon God's spirit by holding          5       up on making a final decision until more research is done,          6       and then we would meet again.          7          8       Q.   By what mechanism would you understand God's spirit to          9       direct your decisions?         10       A.   Well, what I mean by that is, by prayer and using our         11       constitution, God's word, we would go through the         12       scriptures and see if there was any biblical principle at         13       all that would influence our decision ‐ and it could be         14       that in our initial discussions there was something that         15       maybe we were missing and then in another discussion that         16       would come to light.  So we would view that as God's spirit         17       motivating us because we believe the Bible is God's word         18       and came by means of holy spirit.

[Evacuated]

Thankyou for the patchy transcript. The highlights help.

So this confirms the declaration I take it?

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 But the qualifications of a member for the Governing Body ‐ it involves someone who is considered an anointed Witness, who  has worked in scriptural, with a scriptural background, either as a missionary or a full‐time servant for many  years, and is able to fulfil the role of the Governing  Body, which is, may I state, a group, a spiritual group of 42     men who are the guardians of our doctrine, and as guardians  of the doctrine, look at things that need to be decided  based on our doctrines, which are based on the constitution of the Bible.    

 

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

A.   So if a policy or a question comes up with regard to doctrine, or something that involves a biblical stand, we        will allow someone to come in and present to us all the  facts concerning that ‐ obviously the seven involved cannot  be familiar with every aspect that we need to consider. 

My, how they must struggle to keep their act together.    If the Bible standards were actually followed, would 30 helpers need to bring a flaw in doctrine to the attention of a "faithful and discreet slave"?  Who is helping them be "discreet", those not anointed which I would guess are most of the 30?

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. "  John 14:15-17

"But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him."   1 John 2:27

The structure of the organization does not allow the anointed Body of Christ to act as one body under Christ, which would  be evidence that the Spirit of Truth exists among them. Of course, in the organization this could never be.  These men lean on their own structure, interpreting justice and doctrine without the blessing of Holy Spirit.  

"For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.  For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. "  Rom 12:3-5

"But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. 23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no [h]schism ("division") in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it."  1 Cor 12:20-26

Paul is referring to the anointed body, not the GB's convenient interpretation of scripture to include 30 helpers and all JWs. Matt 16:18,19; John 2:19,21; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16  The Body of Christ is being refined and built to benefit mankind,  teaching and aiding them in the Kingdom. Mal 2:7  The organization has corrupted scripture to fit their fleshly needs of power and greed, and to rule over and conquer the anointed ones through the influence of another spirit.  Matt 24:48-51, Rev 13 1, 5-7,11,14-17

If they had God's Spirit, they would be calling the anointed body of Christ to join them.  If they were truly motivated by Holy Spirit, Christ would make it happen.  Matt 21:21,22; Luke 17:6; Mark 11:24; John 16:24

 

[Srecko Sostar]

Gerrit Losch: 

Geoffrey Jackson:

 MR STEWART:   Q.   Mr Jackson, will you state your full  name and your work address, please?         

 A.   Yes, my name is Geoffrey William Jackson, and I work  at 25 Columbia Heights, but the mailing address is  124 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, New York.

 A.   If I may be allowed to explain, each Governing Body  member has a home committee where his office is based. 

A.   Yes.  With regard to my role, each member of the  Governing Body ‐ of course, there are seven at the moment ‐  each brings something to the table with regard to  expertise.

A. ..... So the  Governing Body is broken up into various committees.....  A.   There is a ‐ yes, ultimately, the Governing Body               oversees the work of the committees,....

So verse 4 describes the role of the Governing Body as we  see it, to devote ourselves to prayer and the word of God,  and that's why 30 helpers have been assigned that are  involved more with the practical side of policy and implementation.

The Watchtower:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200272475/30/4

18. How does the Governing Body operate, and what is one way that we can reflect our cooperation with it?

¹⁸ The committees of the Governing Body hold weekly meetings to review important matters, make decisions after prayerful considerations, and plan for future theocratic activity. As noted earlier, Acts chapter 15 shows that a weighty question needing resolution was referred to the first-century governing body for attention. Similarly today, important questions are referred to the entire Governing Body, which meets weekly or more often when necessary. 

19. How do instructions of the Governing Body reach the congregations?

¹⁹ How do the instructions and decisions of the Governing Body reach the congregations? After the members of the first-century governing body reached their decision with the help of God’s spirit, they sent a letter to the congregations. (Acts 15:22-29) However, the principal way today is through Christian publications.

Conclusion: Prior to July 1 1994 Gerrit Losch was not working as GB member according to his deposition in document. BUT after that day and until today he working in WT building and has Office in WT building, so WT giving him (and to his wife too) a Job, Accommodation aka Place to sleep, Food to Eat, Water to Drink, Money for spending, Health Care, Insurance and other things that is required by The US Law for WT Corporation and Full Time Religious Ministers, Order,, Inside JW Church, or simply said Clergy. 

Because Gerrit Losch is GB member as Geoffrey Jackson, this two men /plus other in GB Team) are Fully responsible for all WT Corporation deeds. Who giving Whom Orders, and Who giving Whom answers is Their Internal Game. But All people involved in WT Business of all Kind are One Team and all of them Contribute to decisions. GB is Ultimate Body of WT and all other Legal Entities, so they are Fully Responsible before their God and before Secular Authority.   

All other "Stories" they Presenting to Public, and Their Internal games of Power and Influence, Competition, is Normal for Human Organization as it is also for Heavenly Organization which went through same or similar "fighting for Power and Influence over other", according to Bible reports.   

[Witness]

“I do not direct, and have never directed the day-to-day operations of Watchtower”

Day-to-day operations?  He is part of the what is referred to as the "faithful slave", which has a large laundry list of obligations each day - according to Samuel Herd:

We work diligently to please our owners, Jehovah and Jesus, and that’s what Bethel is all about too.  We work hard as slaves. To be a slave of Jehovah is a cherished privilege.  Just to be owned by God, to belong to him is the best thing that could happen to any one of us.  That is how the faithful and discreet slave feels as the feeding of the domestics is accomplished each day.

Now you see members of the GB walking here and there in the various complexes here in he United States, from time to time.  Every now and then we’ll go up to Canada, go other places throughout the world, and you see a few others walking around too. 

What are some things that occupy the time of the faithful slave and their attention.  I just jotted down a FEW things.  Now I’m gonna go through them very fast because we don’t have a lot of time, but you just think about them.

Making decisions that affect the lives of all sheep – publishes, auxiliary, regular, special pioneers, missionaries, circuit overseers, Bethel family members all over the world

Deciding whether new Branch facilities are needed in various countries throughout the world.  Deciding on the needs in the field of computers, a field that just keeps growing and growing with each passing week. 

Looking into legal fights we’re having all over the world. 

Deciding the best approach to helping brothers and sisters who have been struck by natural disasters; how much money can be allotted and so forth.

Deciding on assembly and convention program themes; drama broadcast programs, videos, new songs, morning worship program, involvement with all the schools being taught and there’s not end to it.

Reading and checking and approving all materials that will be printed; looking and approving all artwork that will be used in our publications.

What new languages to start translating

Decide on what will appear on the jw .org and jw library and of course that has really been a jewel and still is.

Final approval on all the audio recordings of the Bible

Organize international and special conventions

Organizes Branch dedications and assembly hall dedications worldwide

Involved with all teaching, constantly looking to and praying to Jehovah for direction in shepherding his sheep.

Now what has been said probably is only half of what is done by the faithful and discreet slave. What is accomplished is not by human effort alone but is by means of God’s Holy Spirit and direction given by Jesus, the head of the congregation.

While all major decisions and approvals are made by the faithful and discreet slave, we have 30 most qualified helpers and several other brothers who work hard in assisting us to accomplish our responsibility of feeding and caring for Jehovah’s sheep.  Their work does not go unnoticed.  Now some of us maybe viewed as iron chefs but we’re not the only ones in the kitchen and you better believe that.

Slave for Jehovah, a Cherished Privilege, jw broadcasting

[Anna]

The declaration is legal speak and is absolutely correct from a legal point of view.

Gerrit Losch has never been a corporate officer........employee.......etc. of WT,  and as an INDIVIDUAL he has never had or has authority to make or determine any policy for WT or any other department. This can only be done collectively as the GB with all 8 members participating.

[Witness]

 

3 hours ago, Anna said:

The declaration is legal speak and is absolutely correct from a legal point of view.

Gerrit Losch has never been a corporate officer........employee.......etc. of WT,  and as an INDIVIDUAL he has never had or has authority to make or determine any policy for WT or any other department. This can only be done collectively as the GB with all 8 members participating.

I was wondering if someone would bring that out.  Of course, it is all legal.  He was saved from showing face by a Watchtower lawyer who created for him legal jargon to avoid showing in court.  As a member of the GB – “faithful and discreet slave” - he didn’t even have the courage and integrity to represent them.  He could have respectfully shown as directed and explain it in person.  

How faithful is he to scripture?

 Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. ² So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves. ³ For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval. 

That is where it starts – “do what is good.” 

⁴ For government is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God’s servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong. ⁵ Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience. 

Is he afraid?  Is his conscience seared?  1 Tim 4:1,2 

⁶ And for this reason you pay taxes, since the authorities are God’s public servants, continually attending to these tasks. ⁷ Pay your obligations to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor.  Rom 13:1-7

With all the evidence of the GB’s “work” and responsibilities that has been brought out here, how can anyone dismiss Loesch’s obvious lack of courage and integrity to confront a serious claim against “Jehovah’s organization” that he and his fellow “slaves” direct?

Is that all that really matters?  That it is legal?  Where is the spiritual responsibility toward the organization and the people who look to the GB as leaders, as shepherds?  Should JWs defend his act of cowardliness when JW children in school are ridiculed before classmates and teachers for not saluting the flag?

It’s just more evidence that Holy Spirit is not present with its leaders.

[Anna]

52 minutes ago, Witness said:

he didn’t even have the courage and integrity to represent them.  He could have respectfully shown as directed and explain it in person. 

You obviously do not understand how the legal system works. It's not some kind of discussion at the kitchen table. It is very specific, with rules and regulations and you have to be very exact. You do not go beyond what you are asked to do. Because the court was satisfied with his declaration, he was not asked by the court to testify, nor to represent anyone. 

Here is the declaration in full:

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

You do not go beyond what you are asked to do.

In one hand you said good, BUT, we always have that word BUT.

G.L. as  "Substitution for Christ" according to NWT Bible, and as "Ambassador for Kingdom", when was accept this WT Legal Department Deposition, forget small detail from Bible:

  If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well; 41 and if someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two.…

So, yes, as Witness was said, Gerrit has acted not brave, and not according to His Master Words, Advice, Command.

But hey, we are all  just Imperfect Humans, why to blame his deeds. Why to blame JW rank and file members or even elders, when they get a cigarette smoke, get to much beer,  or sex out of marriage? I said you why! Because People on Position made such Rules for rank and file, for Am Haarets people, NOT for Noble Ones. As always.

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Anna said:

You obviously do not understand how the legal system works. It's not some kind of discussion at the kitchen table. It is very specific, with rules and regulations and you have to be very exact. You do not go beyond what you are asked to do. Because the court was satisfied with his declaration, he was not asked by the court to testify, nor to represent anyone. 

Here is the declaration in full:

Thank you, Anna.  I had already read it, and I understand what you are saying.   I thought it was all about not only showing respect and honor to the authorities, but giving a good “witness” for your faith.   

I can’t think of one instance where a news article concerning a child abuse case stated the governing body of the Watchtower was contacted and their answer was…  Always it is, not available for comment, refused to comment, failed to comment, couldn’t be contacted.  As I recall, getting G. Jackson to appear in Australia was not an easy task.  Can the GB claim to lead a spiritual people as Moses did, or compare themselves to the apostles, and also act as weasels?  Moses and the apostles represented the true God in Holy Spirit, which gives the weak courage and motivation to speak truth. 

“But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. ¹³ But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.”  Luke 21:12,13

“But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.”  Mark 13:11 

Losch/Loesch (which is the correct spelling) was asked to “testify” for the organization, not for Christ.  This is the difference, a hypocritical organization couldn’t give him courage to “witness” in truth.  If the organization was guiltless before God and had His approval and blessing, would its leaders hesitate in the least to stand before anyone and defend their “decrees” and beliefs?  They would be “inspired” to do so. 

But the following night the Lord stood by him and said, “Be of good cheer, Paul; for as you have testified for Me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness at Rome.”  Acts 23:11

But Festus answered that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself was going there shortly. ⁵ “Therefore,” he said, “let those who have authority among you go down with me and accuse this man, to see if there is any fault in him.”

⁶ And when he had remained among them more than ten days, he went down to Caesarea. And the next day, sitting on the judgment seat, he commanded Paul to be brought. ⁷ When he had come, the Jews who had come down from Jerusalem stood about and laid many serious complaints against Paul, which they could not prove, ⁸ while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.”  Acts 25:4-8

 But Festus, wanting to do the Jews a favor, answered Paul and said, “Are you willing to go up to Jerusalem and there be judged before me concerning these things?”

¹⁰ So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know. ¹¹ For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar.”

¹² Then Festus, when he had conferred with the council, answered, “You have appealed to Caesar? To Caesar you shall go!”  Acts 25:9-12

I believe Losch knows his weakness, that he knows in his heart that Christ has become a stumbling block before him, because he has chosen to put faith in another “house”, which he realizes can’t deliver him out of trouble.    1 Pet 2:7,8; Matt 7:24-27; Eph 2:20-22

8 hours ago, Anna said:

You do not go beyond what you are asked to do.

For Christ's sake; yes, you do.  

 

 

 

[Anna]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

12 hours ago, Anna said:

You do not go beyond what you are asked to do.

For Christ's sake; yes, you do.  

Not in court

[Anna]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

I believe Losch knows his weakness, that he knows in his heart that Christ has become a stumbling block before him, because he has chosen to put faith in another “house”, which he realizes can’t deliver him out of trouble. 

You talk as if Losch can act on his own, as if he personally had something to do with that case. Why would he be in trouble?

As I said, if the court (the Judge) was not happy with his declaration they would have summoned him to testify. And he would have gone.