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TrueTomHarley

The Reproach of Child Sexual Abuse Falls on the Abuser

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So listening to you all patting each other on the back I conclude that all of you are saying that everyone that says they are a Victim of child abuse in the JW Org is actually a LIAR. They all made it up, every one of them Earthwide. 

So in your eyes, the GB never refused to hand over evidence to the courts. The Elders have never been told to destroy evidence because 'Satan is coming after us'. The Two Witness rule has never been misused . Victims have never been called liars. Children have never been forced to face the accused Child Abuser.  Nobody has been disfellowshipped for continuing to complain about abuse they suffered not being dealt with properly.  Everybody in a congregation is made aware that there is a Pedophile with in it.  

And the biggest one of all, you think Victims are only in it for the Money.  

And most of you use the GB tactics of saying I'm mentally disturbed. 

Um, it's proving to me more and more that the JW org brain deadens people. 

But you don't care because to you lot it's just collateral damage. 

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20 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And the biggest one of all, you think Victims are only in it for the Money.  

 

No. 

Having said that, I live in New York State, and the governor has just signed into law a bill greatly lengthening the statute of limitations for child sexual abuse.

By far, the greatest sponsor of programming I watch is now a legal firm seeking clients. They have even eclipsed other legal firms of accident litigation running non-stop ads of how: “[so and so law firm] got me $3 million dollars, 15 times what the insurance company offered!”

The typical person congratulates the client on their extraordinary bonanza. Then they open their insurance premium bill.

The world is a lawyers playground, with massive transfers of money flowing in all directions, with barristers netting a third, they being the only consistent beneficiaries.

 It is similar to some statesman I disremember saying that democracy cannot endure because eventually the common people discover that they have power over the public purse, after which they spend themselves into oblivion.

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@TrueTomHarley I don't agree with massive payouts but i do agree with a payout of a reasonable amount, and an apology would be nice too :) . However I suppose everyone's idea of reasonable is different. 

I would be lying if i said I wouldn't accept payout for what I suffered, but those responsible are probably dead and gone and will get a resurrection like anyone else. Money can't bring lasting happiness but it could take away the pain for a while.  

And i also think that it should be made easier for anyone wanting to return to the 'fold'. Not that i want to but some might. I cannot see any basis for having to attend a KH for weeks whilst no one is allowed to talk to you, and everyone looks down on you, until the Elders give the signal that it's ok. Where is the love there ?  

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17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The not believing every word I had been taught was a great relief.

"I will refresh the weary and satisfy the faint.”  Jer 31:25

 

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Um, it's proving to me more and more that the JW org brain deadens people. 

But you don't care because to you lot it's just collateral damage. 

No one calls for justice;
    no one pleads a case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies;
    they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.

Their feet rush into sin;
    they are swift to shed innocent blood.
They pursue evil schemes;
    acts of violence mark their ways.
The way of peace they do not know;
    there is no justice in their paths.
They have turned them into crooked roads;
    no one who walks along them will know peace.

So justice is far from us,
    and righteousness does not reach us.
We look for light, but all is darkness;
    for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.
10 Like the blind we grope along the wall,
    feeling our way like people without eyes.
At midday we stumble as if it were twilight;
    among the strong, we are like the dead.
11 We all growl like bears;
    we moan mournfully like doves.
We look for justice, but find none;
    for deliverance, but it is far away.

12 For our offenses are many in your sight,
    and our sins testify against us.
Our offenses are ever with us,
    and we acknowledge our iniquities:
13 rebellion and treachery against the Lord,
    turning our backs on our God,
inciting revolt and oppression,
    uttering lies our hearts have conceived.
14 So justice is driven back,
    and righteousness stands at a distance;
truth has stumbled in the streets,
    honesty cannot enter.
15 Truth is nowhere to be found,
    and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.  Isa 59:4,7-15

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I would be lying if i said I wouldn't accept payout for what I suffered

I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t accept payout for merely being TrueTom.

When the rules of the game change, you can hardly blame the small players for adjusting to accommodate them. There was a time, I think you will remember it, too, when nothing was so crass as for lawyers to advertise. It was against their universal code of conduct, possibly even against the law. It explains the phrase “ambulance chaser” - you actually had to chase an ambulance to sign up a client before another lawyer did. You couldn’t just broadcast to the whole wide world that you were scouring the earth for clients.

Someone dear to me was sued several times with regard to rental property, in another matter that had a very long statute of limitations. When what proved to be the final lawsuit came in, the person sought to make defense through his own lawyer. That lawyer contacted several times but could not get a response from the firm bringing suit. Finally that firm admitted that they were having a hard time locating their client. In other words, they were leaving no stone unturned in desperately seeking business and had finally found “aggrieved” ones who’s cases were so tenuous that they couldn’t even be bothered to show up.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

i cannot see any basis for having to attend a KH for weeks whilst no one is allowed to talk to you, and everyone looks down on you, until the Elders give the signal that it's ok. Where is the love there ?  

This may be your interpretation. I have seen many disfellowshipped ones go through the process and return. Nobody looks down upon them. It causes pure joy to the congregation that normal association may soon resume.

Think of it as a game, if you like, admittedly silly in some respects, but forced upon humans because they cannot read hearts. It is like a teen I knew very well who was disfellowshipped. He lived in the family home throughout. When on one super-cold morning he parked in the KH lot and strode toward the building without a coat, I broke all protocol and said “I know that there’s no contact and all, but did they even have to take your coat?”

He liked that one, and in not too long a time he was reinstated.

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On 2/23/2019 at 3:33 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Back then, secular authority was dismissive of many things that they take into account now. This person remained an Elder until 2006 when the girls were able to speak with the local judicial committee where this person resided. They came to the conclusion the girls were credible enough to remove this person as Elder and never hold a position of congregational responsibility ever, within the organization.

So sorry for the abuse and extended trauma of your relatives.

Quite true that secular authority was much more dismissive in the past. Some secular authorities are still dismissive today. Even US Attorney Acosta broke the law by hiding the plea deal with Jeffrey Epstein (wealthy hedge fund manager) after at least 30 underage female victims came forward. There are indications that the actual number of victims may have been in the hundreds along with rumors that he escaped prosecution for years by flying recruited underage girls to a private island Epstein owns.

Acosta claims that his actions, although obviously illegal, were signed off by 'all levels of government.' That's an odd or even loaded expression when there are pictures of Trump and Clinton with Epstein. I don't think either of them ever denied flying to his personal island with him. Trump even made Acosta his Labor Secretary after the Epstein cover-up. Of course, this doesn't mean criminal behavior by Trump or Clinton. It could just be a coincidence.

But this is just a high-level case. I've heard of high school students molesting younger students and schools trying to hide the case from police, even recently. When it's a teacher, or coach, there is often a network of their peers and administrators who will cover for them. I know of a local case where police declined to arrest/investigate a coach when the crimes seemed obvious. Hopefully this is changing for the better everywhere.

I'd have to agree that sometimes in the past, this dismissive attitude by secular authorities has limited how far a congregation felt they could reasonably investigate a case, too.

19 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

That is far from the truth. Even Bro. Knorr got to weigh in on a case about child abuse. A case, your good friend and confidante should be well aware of. Why has he kept silent? What is his motive?

Just in case this supposed "good friend and confidante" was me, I'll weigh in. The truth is I had no idea what you were talking about with Knorr weighing in on a case about child abuse. It seemed quite possible, so I don't doubt that he may have involved himself in one one or more such cases.

But I googled some of the content you included about that case and only found it on watchtowerdocuments.org which is a site run by ex-JW Barbara Anderson. I looked at the particular case and see that you are mistaken about it.

This is not a case about child abuse. It's a case where the Astoria, Queens, NY congregation had a Bethelite (Brooklyn) assigned to it who had broken off an engagement with a sister there, and admitted to loose (brazen) conduct during the engagement. He had evidently done something similar (broken 'promises' to a sister along with loose conduct) back in his 'home' congregation before being invited to Bethel. He was dismissed from Bethel as of September 19th 1970 (and replaced as Book Study servant by a 19 year old brand new Bethelite in the next couple of months). The Astoria, NY congregation had announced his "probation" and quoted the direction they got from Knorr to the South Carolina congregation where the brother had just moved, letting them know about the case and that it would be OK to announce that he had been dismissed from the Bethel family (per Knorr's letter).

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3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I cannot see any basis for having to attend a KH for weeks whilst no one is allowed to talk to you, and everyone looks down on you, until the Elders give the signal that it's ok. Where is the love there ?  

I know it’s my second shot at this and that you did not argue with the first one. 

But I wonder where you got this from. It’s quite the opposite. Not only are they not looked down upon, but they are greatly respected because congregation members know what is involved.

There are two possibilities. 1.) You read it somewhere, or 2.) You think it yourself.

If you read it somewhere, then I would submit that it is deliberately planted by those who dislike Jehovah’s Witnesses in order to dissuade anyone who has left from returning.

If you think it yourself, then I would suggest that your perception is off. I do not blame you for it. I also would not categorically state that there are not yo-yos here and there that might give cause for that perception, but it is not the reality. It only hurts you to think it.

 It is not true, but my point to you is that even if it were, it is only true in your case if you accede to it. Don’t, if at all possible.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

 

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23 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The only one still standing [of clergy-penitent, doctor-patient, and lawyer-client privilege] is their own. [the lawyer’s]

I’ve given thought to this. Strip them of it. Why should they be allowed to enable child sexual abuse?

Make them report to police anything they learn from a client as soon as they learn it.

If the profession actually cares about children, it will promptly accede to this.

Of course, they would scream to high heaven that they have noble reasons not to do this. I would agree with them. It makes their job (that of defense attorneys) all but impossible. 

The point is that there are noble reasons for the other two relationships to exist, as well. Exercising them does not automatically make you a lover of child abuse. 

And I keep coming back to that November 20th, 2011 Democratic and Chronicle article (which unfortunately is now behind a paywall - if anyone has access, I would appreciate if a pertinent line or two was fair-use quoted) that two thirds of all professionals who ARE mandated by law to report child sexual abuse fail to do it.

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Tom I'm an EX JW. I don't need to read it anywhere. I saw it regularly at Honiton, East Devon, England, Kingdom Hall.  

As I've said I'm not interested in returning to the place. I thought I had friends, but they were just 'brothers and sisters', not friends. I would never trust any of them again. And I never trusted the Elderes anyway. I don't trust any policemen in the Org or out of it. 

There is no point in me telling you stuff as it just gets me accused of being a liar, or off making it up. (It gives the Kid something to whine about too)  But, the reason being that you and others have your minds set on the Org being full of good people. Truth is, the Org is not full of good people Tom. It seems full of people that just want to serve the GB through the Elders. So if the Elders are bad then the congregation are bad. 

I've seen a congregation in Bristol England that was run by two Elders. A father and his son. All the other Elders just did as they were told. 

Anyway Tom you are giving it your second shot. So give me three scriptures that directly say that no one should talk to a ex-JW when they walk into a Kingdom Hall. 

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