The Reproach of Child Sexual Abuse Falls on the Abuser

[JW Insider]

7 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The problem with everything legal, people don’t see the downside of the government’s action. It’s always the victim and the perpetrator.

It's very true that government (police, investigators, prosecutors, judges, child protection services, etc.) often fails to do their job correctly. 

15 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Then, vultures disguised as lawyer’s go after an institution without giving the failures of the government, and the responsibility they had to a certain situation any thought of their role and accountability.

True again. It's so typical of lawyers to go after an institution when it's not even the fault of an institution, just because that's where the money is. As you know, this goes for a lot of legal issues, even those unrelated to child sexual abuse. Of course, if it can be shown that an institution had hidden the abuse to protect their own assets (coach, priest, cardinal, bank account) or to protect their institution's reputation (a college, a football team, a diocese, a religion) then there should be culpability. In some few cases these vultures swoop in to exact a kind of punishment where the "system" failed, but there is no real justice for all, because this very much a 'hit and miss' process. 

There are cases against the Watchtower that really have absolutely nothing to do with the Watchtower, and should focus just on getting justice for the victim from the abuser. And there may be cases where congregation elders have made a mistake that has nothing to do with their training as elders and they should have known better. Some of these cases should have nothing to do with the Watchtower Society or the organization.

37 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Although Penn State police and the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare had investigated the claim in 1998, as in 2002 nothing of consequence was done about it.

True. Powerful and monied interests can be leveraged on behalf of both persons and institutions, and that can make even good police investigative work meaningless. Victims are typically poorer and abusers can use their own power and influence to buy attorneys that can bully those victims. Victims can be talked into exonerating the abuser, or settling cases with a sack of money and a gag order.  I have a feeling that the HBO documentary on Michael Jackson which may be aired next month will show how money can buy the kind of lawyers and threats that protect abusers. Acosta/Epstein is another case in point.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:



I was really steamed at how Joe Paterno took the primary hit on this for fulfilling his legal duty but failing “to go beyond the law.” The man’s lifelong reputation had been sterling. He was to become villain of the year, fired from his decades-long career where he had garnered nothing but praise , and he was dead in two years.

A similar scandal broke a short time later with regards to SU coach Jim Boeheim. He initially said a very perilous thing, but he quickly did an about face and managed to redeem himself.

I posted about both these events:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2011/12/jim-boeheim-and-joe-paterno.html

I even have a personal anecdote about Boeheim. I was once a part of a student news production team that rotated positions weekly. When it was my turn as ‘sportscaster’ I interviewed the coach in the stands with the team practicing below as a backdrop. I didn’t know the first thing about basketball, yet he patiently answered all my ‘questions.’ He may have even suggestd a few.

 

 

[Space Merchant]

@BillyTheKid46 Another problem is that the powers that be are covering their own even though they know who is the abuser. They will allow those at the bottom to seek out and go after a whole institution for the actions of a few, which we see today in schools and churches. Something of which I was adamant about is to teach people, to prevent abuse and or harm.

Abuse of this nature, by any means, cannot cease from the face of thee earth, only God can wipe that all away.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 2/24/2019 at 3:37 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

But, just a question Tom. How many people do you think have been sexually abused within the JW Org Earthwide in the last 50 years? 

I would think quite a few. That is not contested. Anthony Morris has stated that at one time, we were all a little naive over the magnitude of the problem. By “we,” he may mean society in general or Witness society in general. Either one fits.

On 2/24/2019 at 3:37 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Because most of them will now have a 'warped judgement' about life. 

You know, I want to be careful on this. I certainly don’t want to minimize it. But neither do I want to pronounce it the certain kiss of death to ever again being a complete person. 

Maybe it is like certain things that frequently result in cancer. Many succumb to the cancer. Yet many overcome it. And many don’t get it in the first place. 

I mean, there appears to be nothing more common than CSA. And it is not particularly new. Ancient Greece is embraced as a pillar of Western civilization. Nothing then was more common there than pedastery. It was an entrenched value of that society, a universal practice never condemned. Some considered it the highest form of love. So, bad as it may be, it cannot be THAT much the unrecoverable kiss of death.

To be sure, Richard Dawkins was speaking of non-penetrative abuse, but he has written in his book The God Delusion that he thinks the whole impact of CSA is vastly overstated. It happened to him and he got over it. Is he right? Who knows? At the very least, his remarks shed light on the prevalent thinking of a time not too long ago, that we now try to adjudicate based upon today’s standards.

[JOHN BUTLER]

To be sure, Richard Dawkins was speaking of non-penetrative abuse, but he has written in his book The God Delusion that he thinks the whole impact of CSA is vastly overstated. It happened to him and he got over it.

Did he get over it though ? Does anyone get over it ? 

In my opinion, everything that happens in our lives shapes who we are. So even if we can 'handle a situation' it does not mean that the situation has not shaped our lives a little bit. 

Once again if a person writes a book to earn themselves money, why should I trust their opinion ? 

Ecclesiastes 12 v 12

 As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh.

[TrueTomHarley]

55 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

“As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh.”

This is true for every book, with the exception of my own, where each new word is a refreshing delight.

[JOHN BUTLER]

12 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is true for every book, with the exception of my own, where each new word is a refreshing delight.

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ This time next year you'll be a millionaire   

 

[Anna]

On 2/23/2019 at 11:35 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Why did the ARC fail to submit these findings into their legal brief? Why do ex-JW’s refuse to see what’s before them? Why do witnesses continue to insinuate, when they don’t have the full facts?

I do not know if the ARC did or didn't submit these findings to their legal brief. What I do know is that those letters had a very limited audience. Regular publishers had no idea about these letters, they had no idea how elders were supposed to handle these situations. They were completely in the dark. As a consequence, regular publishers were at the "mercy" of the Elders. The ARC changed that. Now everyone knows the procedure and can be on the same page. It's a pity this transparency didn't happen sooner.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

 

Lies and cover-ups ALWAYS lead to MORE lies and MORE coverups ... and there are no exceptions.

We should be proud of EVERYTHING we do, and where we screw up ... fess up, take a beating, and keep on keeping on.

That's how it works with men of integrity, which in the GB, seems to be in short supply....

...if it involves money.

 

 

[Anna]

On 2/25/2019 at 9:51 AM, JW Insider said:

There are cases against the Watchtower that really have absolutely nothing to do with the Watchtower, and should focus just on getting justice for the victim from the abuser. And there may be cases where congregation elders have made a mistake that has nothing to do with their training as elders and they should have known better. Some of these cases should have nothing to do with the Watchtower Society or the organization.

Yes, I agree,  that's how it should be, but as you mentioned, Lawyers want to go where the money is, and abusers probably don't have the kind of money they want. JW child abuse cases are attractive to them because of jw.org. Also, I didn't realise but many lawyers go hunting for cases. For instance someone I know is being sued by a credit card company and as soon as the lawsuit was filed with the court she has been receiving numerous letters from different lawyers who want to represent her. Apparently they go down to the courthouse to find cases. Similarly, child abuse lawyers go hunting for survivors so they can represent them in court. This was one reason I believe Zalkin wanted the names of all the alleged abusers held by the org. so he could sift through them and find anything that he could use for himself. And once they find a "suitable" survivor, they no doubt persuade her/him to the effect that they shouldn't feel bad about suing, since they will be suing the organization, and the organization has plenty of money. Then they (the lawyers) go about finding ways to incriminate the org. It's all about making money, but often the survivor comes off worse, especially when there is a settlement. I believe the lawyers take the biggest lump, and since with a settlement there is also a gag order, the survivor can't even complain about how little they got. It's all a big scam and all about lining the lawyers pockets. There is no justice really. The only justice will be with Jehovah. So when someone says "wait on Jehovah" when it is apparent that nothing that can be done for the moment, then that makes perfect sense. Of course it goes without saying that that should never be used as an excuse not to do anything.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The site crashed when I had a rant going , and it was lost.

Probably a good idea .... it was a doozie!

Synopsis:

We have NO RIGHTEOUS RIGHT to ask anyone to keep the quest for Justice secret.

It subverts Justice, and dishoners Jehovah God.

I have no sympathy for plaintiffs who agree to,  or defendants who pay for secrecy in the quest for Justice.

.... only contempt.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The only reason money is the currency of Justice ... is that they outlawed dueling ... which I see as a nefarious, cowardly mistake.