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TrueTomHarley

The Reproach of Child Sexual Abuse Falls on the Abuser

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TrueTomHarley -
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@Anna Quote "So it's the size?"   

Each case of child abuse is bad enough and I feel for the victims and their families. However one or two cases by ordinary congregation members could be understandable.   But the size of the problem in the Org, along with other things that i had left in God's hands, in other words other things that were /are wrong in the Org, just proved to me that JW Org is not what it is supposed to be. 

As for your comment " Unfortunately this is to be expected with the kind of morality promoted by this world ruled by Satan. "

No it should not be expected. Everyone in the Org should be 'no part of the world'.  And if the JW Org was God's chosen organisation and if the Elders were chosen with God's Holy Spirit, the Elders would be God fearing men that serve God not served their own flesh. 

And " those who are having to deal with it." are often those that are causing it, the Elders. 

Quote "Can you explain what you mean please, not sure I understand "

When I wrote a letter to the Body of Elders, i meant it to be read by the Body of Elders, not just one or two Elders.. And when i was summoned to appear before the Elders, I expected to appear before the complete Body of Elders. If that had happened then the complete Body of Elders would have been aware of the situation. And I do not think that the one Elder would have threatened to disfellowship me.  The case would have or should have been dealt with properly / fairly. The information would not have been hidden and the Elder that i accused would have had to answer for his sins.... However when I spoke to a different Elder, on an occasion when he came to visit me, he said he didn't know anything about my letter or about the situation.  So was God in control of that situation, NO, Men were in control of that situation. Why ? Because the GB or someone in authority has allowed situations to arise that way. If the rule was that the whole Body of Elders had to be present in serious cases, then my case would have been heard properly and justice would have been done. 

Hence when i 'resigned' from the Org, i sent text messages to as many Elders as i possibly could. That way most of them knew the situation and the reason for it.... 

When the GB / Org says go and tell an Elder, my advice would be Tell every Elder in the congregation, not just one or two. That way the whole Body of Elders would know every serious situation within their congregation. 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for your comment " Unfortunately this is to be expected with the kind of morality promoted by this world ruled by Satan. "

No it should not be expected. Everyone in the Org should be 'no part of the world'. 

I should have said it should not surprise us. You don't have to be in the world to be affected by it, otherwise you would have to be taken out of the world. No one is immune to Satan's propaganda. I am sure you are aware that not everyone in the org is who they claim to be. Just because someone is called an elder or claims to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't make them so. Those are Jehovah's Witnesses and elders in name only. But they are not the majority. 

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

When I wrote a letter to the Body of Elders, i meant it to be read by the Body of Elders, not just one or two Elders.. And when i was summoned to appear before the Elders, I expected to appear before the complete Body of Elders........ So was God in control of that situation, NO, Men were in control of that situation. Why ? Because the GB or someone in authority has allowed situations to arise that way. If the rule was that the whole Body of Elders had to be present in serious cases, then my case would have been heard properly and justice would have been done.

It is the body of elders who assign two elders to look into a particular case. So unless the two elders acted on their own, the body of elders would have been familiar with your letter. You cannot get disfellowshipped unless a judicial committee is formed. The congregation would not consider forming a judicial committee unless the offended Christian (you) had taken steps one and two of Matthew 18:15, 16 and had initiated step three in Matthew 18:17. If asked, elders could participate in step two, but they do not represent the body of elders. If the matter proceeds to step three, any elders who were witnesses in step two could serve only as witnesses in step three. They would not be used to serve on the judicial committee. I trust you were not in a judicial committee. There is nothing stopping anyone from asking to speak to any and all elders if they wished, especially when you believed the elders assigned to look into your accusation might have been biased. That is if they were assigned. Did you follow the steps in Matthew? Because that is how God controls the situation.

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I think this assessment is not necessarily genuine. While there might be an instance where elders take it upon themselves to resolve sensitive issues, it doesn’t mean they are corrupt. It doesn’t mean as opposers suggest that there are times when elders look the other way, or that they favor the accused because of friendship.

That kind of bold statement needs personal proof from an individual. Not something, written on the internet.

However, I will agree with the leading pro-counsel for the Watchtower in such cases, Elders “screw-up” because they don’t contact the legal department.

Hence, a response from Mario Moreno. I think we have seen his name pop up at times.

1. It is reported to the Watchtower Society.

The policy continues: "However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit."

Opposers criticize the fact that the Watchtower Society stresses the importance of reporting the allegations to the headquarters. But there is a very good reason why. They want to make sure that each case is handled correctly. They want to make sure that the body of elders do not disregard their policy and thus cause problems for all involved. As Watchtower attorney Mario Moreno bluntly put it: "Once in a while, in a small minority cases, elders screw up. They screw up because they don't call here (the Watch Tower legal department). When they call here, they don't screw up." Really, can you imagine the criticism that would be heaped upon the Society if they said please do not call Bethel in cases of child molesting? Elders should handle it themselves.

Therefore in general and in most known cases, the Elders have screwed up. Nothing to do with corruption as indicated. That shows more in the inability by the Elders to understand their local laws and the Watchtower guidelines that each local, state, federal, and the country is given by the Watchtower.

 

Does this mean a .0001% of those claims didn’t show some kind of bias? Perhaps, but most Elders uphold God’s law in as much as Caesar's law.

Another area I will agree with, that not everyone calling themselves JW’s are actually JW’s. They are in name only. It’s pretty much apparent here with some.

There are so many areas where the public is still being misled here by the many assumptions, by JW’s in name only.

2. If there is a mandatory reporting law it is reported to the authorities.

Continuing with the policy: "In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply." If their is a mandatory reporting law it is reported to the authorities regardless of the age of the victim or whether the allegations are true or not.

3. If a child is in possible danger it is reported to the authorities.

A 1988 letter states: "There is a duty to report when one has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that there is abuse or a substantial risk of abuse and parents have failed to protect the child."

6. All in the congregation have a responsibility to report it to the authorities.

A 1992 letter states: "As members or the community in which Caesar still acts as God's minister and hence still has a certain authority, ALL in the Christian congregation would want to consider their personal and moral responsibility to alert the appropriate authorities in cases where there has been committed or there exists a risk that there might be committed a serious criminal offence of this type (see ks91, page 138) In child abuse cases such authorities might include the family doctor, the Social Services, the NSPCC, or the police."

The child abuse policy of Jehovah's Witnesses states: "If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there."

Does this mean that young children who accuse someone of molesting them will have to meet with the accused face to face? That is what many opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses will tell you. One such opposer had this to say: "...yes JWs believe in having a 8 yr old little girl, her parents, two elder and the person in the same room as the little child describes how a 45yr old man... No, opposers are knowingly or unknowingly leaving out detailed information that has appeared in the Watchtower and that has been sent to elders as to how to handle this situation when the accuser is a CHILD or if the accuser does not wish to face the one they are accusing. Would you like to see the real policy of Jehovah's Witnesses and not the invented policy of opposers like the one quoted above?

First off, the Nov 1, 1995 Watchtower states of ADULTS who accuse someone of molesting them when they were a child: "If the accuser is not emotionally able to do this face-to-face, it can be done by telephone or perhaps by writing a letter." As we see then, no face to face meeting is necessary even if the accuser is an adult. But what about a child who makes an accusation?

December 1, 2000 letter to elders states quite clearly: "If the complainant is a CHILD, the elder might offer to accompany him or her to discuss the situation with a parent (but not the alleged abuser) or to one of the above authorities. A child should not be placed under pressure to take such action,..." Did you notice the phrase in parenthesis, 'not the alleged abuser'? Further proof that Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that a child should be made or coerced to confront the accused molester face to face.

Well let us take you way back to 1962. The November 15 Watchtower from that year on page 693 clearly stated:

"9 Worldly authorities render a judgment and punish persons, whether they are inside the congregation or outside, if they violate the laws of decency and good order. The violators have no right to complain at such punishment, as Paul showed by his words before Caesar’s judgment seat. (Acts 25:11) Hence the Christian congregation cannot protect any of its members if they steal, smuggle, commit bigamy, murder, libel, defraud, and so forth. The congregation must release such guilty members to punishment by worldly authorities. Since the guilty break the laws of the land and thus oppose the “authority,” they are taking a stand against God’s arrangement.

To sensible people, it boils down to credibility. What they are willing to accept from distorted views on the internet, or see the truth for what it is. Therefore, it’s not about defending the Watchtower, the GB, or Elders, its about showing those areas that opposers and JW’s in name only are distorting with the FACTS.

Anyone who is guilty of child abuse in any form should be exposed for the heinous crime. The Watchtower has never stood in the way to have a member exposed and sentenced for their criminal involvement. James 4:7, John 8:32

 

 

 

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Keep playing that same old record to yourself Kid, you might convince yourself one day. 

Who was the member of the GB that said 'It's all Apostate lies' 

Well Kid you are doing just the same. You are just a puppet to the GB and it's Org. But if that keeps you happy so be it. 

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In general, yes all apostates are damaged goods. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have sympathetic believers from within. Those apostates are worse. Meantime, there is a huge difference between corruption and incompetence

New International Frontiers in Child Sexual Abuse 2019

Sexual Abuse by Adolescent Peers

In the UK, a report by the House of Commons Women and Equalities Select Committee (WESC) found endemic sexual violence against girls in schools. The WESC Report reinforced earlier research by the BBC in 2015, which found that in a 3-year period to July 2015, there were 5500 sexual offences on school grounds reported to police, including 600 rapes. The government’s failure to respond a year after receiving the WESC report led to calls for the Secretary of the Department for Education to be charged with breach of statutory duty under the Equality Act s. 149, which requires her to have due regard for the need to eliminate discrimination against girls in school and to advance equality of opportunity. These reported offences of course represent a mere fraction of the true incidence: a 2010 YouGov poll of 16- to 18-year-olds found that one third of all girls experienced unwanted sexual touching at school (Okolosie 2016; Weale 2017).

This is another example of, governmental hypocrisy of once again, pressuring social justice unto religions while not holding their own accountable until they are exposed like in the UK. The same hypocrisy from Canada and Australia. All awhile opposers and ex-witnesses remain silent.

 

Do what we tell you, but don’t do what we do. Matthew 23:3

Therefore the only puppets are those that play into the devil hands.

 

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Why compare what happens in the world. The JW Org is supposed to be no part of that world. 

You and others miss the whole point of it. You pretend the JW Org is better, but truth is the JW Org is no better. 

 

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There is no reason to compare the Watchtower with the world. There is, however, a reason to compare the hypocrisy of opposers and ex-witnesses that have a double standard to distort the facts about the watchtower and the world. Criticize the Watchtower, stay silent with the world.

Therefore, it’s opposers that are missing the point. They can’t see beyond their personal hatred and vendetta.

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29 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

There is no reason to compare the Watchtower with the world. There is, however, a reason to compare the hypocrisy of opposers and ex-witnesses that have a double standard to distort the facts about the watchtower and the world. Criticize the Watchtower, stay silent with the world.

 

Therefore, it’s opposers that are missing the point. They can’t see beyond their personal hatred and vendetta.

 

Kid, most sensible people know what people in the world are like. Sensible people do not trust politicians for instance.

But, some sensible people do not know how bad the JW Org is, because as Jesus put it, they wash the outside of the bowl or dish but not the inside. Hence with all the secrecy in the past, the JW Org looked clean to outsiders. That is why ex-JW's like myself make it known how bad the JW Org is on the inside. 

Until 2017 I knew nothing about the Pedophilia problem within the JW org. Many JW's still don't know anything about it. But it has been a serious problem for over twenty years, and the GB / Org kept it hidden. 

It's not about hatred, well not from my side of the fence anyway, you quite often seem to show aggression. It's about warning others and trying to get justice for Victims. Victims that you seem to be calling liars. 

As for the UK government, it has been made known publicly about child abuse and Pedophile rings within the UK government. Even to the point of saying that it is believed children have been murdered. 

However my concern is about Christianity. That is, serving God through Jesus Christ. As an individual i cannot do much to help victims of abuse but i can give warnings about the things i know. As for how to serve God properly, I'm lost on that right now, but it would be stupid of me to go back into the mire just because i don't yet have a different direction. 

As for your idea of hypocrisy and double standards. It's like this for me, I know nothing about the UK government, only what I read online etc. Whereas I've had many years first hand experience of the JW Org, so i can speak from my own experiences. Although I've only known about the Child Abuse situation since 2017, i can compare it to the way I've seen other matters handled in various congregations. I know you don't believe anything i say, but that is your choice, if you wish to remain blind. However I know that i speak truth and other people have the choice to believe me or not. 

It would be more stupid of me to comment about the UK government of which I have no first hand experience. 

 

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5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In general, yes all apostates are damaged goods. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have sympathetic believers from within.

This. This is one of the things I have seen time and time again. There are those of the former faith that will speak up against disgruntled ones who have gone off unhinged in action, and their conquest to be aggressive increasingly i.e. anywhere there is a person of that faith community they purposely go after them relentlessly, even if said person is doing personal things. It tends to go off the rails even further when former ones actually side with their former faith to speak against apostasy, and in doing so, these persons are shamed and or hunted down in the social space, even in public.

Apparently, they care not for who you are or your background because of whom you follow and or what you represent, they feel that attacking is an obligation, they seek to provoke and when or should the provoked do something, the provoker will use that as means to take action and so forth, which is also another problem.

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

New International Frontiers in Child Sexual Abuse 2019

Sexual Abuse by Adolescent Peers

In the UK, a report by the House of Commons Women and Equalities Select Committee (WESC) found endemic sexual violence against girls in schools. The WESC Report reinforced earlier research by the BBC in 2015, which found that in a 3-year period to July 2015, there were 5500 sexual offences on school grounds reported to police, including 600 rapes. The government’s failure to respond a year after receiving the WESC report led to calls for the Secretary of the Department for Education to be charged with breach of statutory duty under the Equality Act s. 149, which requires her to have due regard for the need to eliminate discrimination against girls in school and to advance equality of opportunity. These reported offences of course represent a mere fraction of the true incidence: a 2010 YouGov poll of 16- to 18-year-olds found that one third of all girls experienced unwanted sexual touching at school (Okolosie 2016; Weale 2017).

This is another example of, governmental hypocrisy of once again, pressuring social justice unto religions while not holding their own accountable until they are exposed like in the UK. The same hypocrisy from Canada and Australia. All awhile opposers and ex-witnesses remain silent.

 

Do what we tell you, but don’t do what we do. Matthew 23:3

Therefore the only puppets are those that play into the devil hands.

Indeed. The UK also has grooming gangs whereas some know of it's existence, but does not speak of it nor care of it. For me, I to not agree with a lot of what Tommy Robinson has said and or stand for, however, he made this known and the UK government arrested him for it some months back.

It would seem that child pedophilia, when it comes to disgruntled ones, they, the way I see it sometimes, using it as a front to go after those that do not like. The focus should be on abuse taking place everywhere, but not a sole group alone. Another problem is that such sparks vigilantism whereas at some cases, the one who seeks the abuser, or the abuser, or victim succumb to further harm and or problems.

That being said, it is a mixed bag altogether, reasons why many tend to educate, for it is a great tool and or, in this sense, weapon, to use in this mater, be it to prevent a form of abuse and or to deal with a situation if someone is abused, so one wouldn't be left in the dark on what actions to take.

But alas, it is a very very cruel world out there, I would say you think wildfire that is pedophilia, let the people bear witness of what is coming very soon in regards to a specific community.

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On 3/2/2019 at 4:38 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

But it has been a serious problem for over twenty years, and the GB / Org kept it hidden. 

There are two ways of looking at this.

1.) It has not been.

2.) it has been, but it is far worse everywhere else.

One must look no farther than who is being outed as perpetrators. If you want to find deviants in most places, you look no further than the leaders. If you want the same ‘catch’ among Jehovah’s Witnesses, you must broaden your search to include, not just leaders, but everyone

An JW leader committing CSA is rare. Not unheard of, but rare. Elsewhere it is the pattern.

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Quote "An JW leader committing CSA is rare. Not unheard of, but rare. Elsewhere it is the pattern."

Because it is kept hidden, kept quite, kept secret. Hence the GB don't want to hand over the TWENTY YEARS worth of Child Abuse accusation files that they keep 'safely' stored away. 

But the whole truth has to be revealed one day. The scriptures tell us, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed and nothing done in the darkness that will not be brought out into the light. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Because it is kept hidden, kept quite, kept secret. 

I happen to know that every single person in the township where you live is a child abuser.

But it is kept hidden, kept quiet, kept secret.

Sheesh.

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Seems there is big news from Canada then. More secrets will be revealed. TTH can continue with his sarcasm but it will not protect that JW Org.  

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10 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@TrueTomHarley Well there's the UK government. When it comes to their clique it's always secrets.

Of course it is so, Equivalent. But the point is that if you are basing your accusations on what is unknown, there is nothing that you cannot condemn.

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You people are impossible to talk to sensibly because you worship the GB and it's Org so much that you are blind to the truth of it all. 

Anything a victim says, that you don't like, you simply consider them as liars. 

Anything that an investigation finds out, that you don't like, you simply say they are twisting facts or making it all up.

Some of you cannot accept the truth about the JW Org. You can accept that the Israelites offered their children in the fire to Molech, but you think that the GB and it's Org are above any such badness.

You can make it known about Catholic priests and others committing Child Abuse but when people make it known about JW Elders you say it's lies or 'just apostate rumours'. 

TTH says " An JW leader committing CSA is rare. Not unheard of, but rare. Elsewhere it is the pattern. " 

Tom likes to pretend that the JW Org is so so different, but unfortunately it isn't any different. Oh yes, slightly different, the JW Org keeps as much of it secret as it can, and it withholds evidence and destroys evidence too. 

The JW Org also tries to stop investigations by those with a legal right to do so. A bit strange when God's word tells us to obey the law of the land and to be in subjection to the Superior Authorities, because those authorities are in their place with God's approval. 

Now if the GB actually believed God's word and therefore followed it properly, they would tell all those brothers in positions of responsibility to cooperate fully with all investigations and to hand over all information asked for by those authorities. The Bible calls it being in subjection and  'going the extra mile'. I'm sure you all know the scriptures well. 

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40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

TTH says " An JW leader committing CSA is rare. Not unheard of, but rare. Elsewhere it is the pattern. " 

@TrueTomHarley, please go to www . silentlambs . org and scroll down the left hand column to see how many times the word "elder" is found in each story heading.  

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22 minutes ago, Witness said:

@TrueTomHarley, please go to www . silentlambs . org and scroll down the left hand column to see how many times the word "elder" is found in each story heading.  

But TTH and others will just pretend it's not true. They will  call it apostate lies. :( 

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

@TrueTomHarley, please go to www . silentlambs . org and scroll down the left hand column to see how many times the word "elder" is found in each story heading.  

Please go to court hearings and see how many times an elder is the perpetrator. Then go to those of other groups, where you will find that it is nobody but their leaders coming under legal fire.

It is the court hearings where one must look. For lawyers will take the cases that seem easiest to win over those where allegations are more tenuous. For all I know, you wrote many of the stories at lambs. But it is the ones that lawyers adopt because they seem provable that count.

And very few are  elders as perpetrators.

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Quote @TrueTomHarley But it is the ones that lawyers adopt because they seem provable that count. 

Really ?  I thought all truth counted.  i thought all Victims counted. 

But  TTH seems to say that if it's not in the courts then it doesn't matter. I wonder why ? 

Oh yes, because if it's not in the courts then the JW Org are not in trouble for it.  TTH doesn't care about the victims.

To TTH the victims are just collateral damage. 

As I've said before the whole truth will never be known because Elders protect each other and work against victims. 

Elders destroy evidence and deliberately tell lies to protect the Org. The Elders have permission to tell lies from the GB as the GB say it is 'spiritual warfare'.  And the Elders get to keep their positions of 'authority', ruling over the congregations.  

Oh Tom, what are you trying to protect ? and why ? The Org is a complete mess. Everyone knows it. Why are you hiding yourself from the truth ? 

But i suppose TTH cannot back down because he seems to have written books about it, and he would look foolish if he suddenly back tracked. 

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