People who believe they had visions of and or had a near death experience about seeing/going to Hell?

[Shiwiii]

On 3/8/2019 at 7:14 PM, Space Merchant said:

You do realize Christians are prophets not inspired, in this sense, they can make claim to being a mouthpiece, anyone can say it, but it comes down to if they follow the early church and its teachings, in conjunction with the teachings of the Christ and so forth. If a man claims he is the mouthpiece of the church and or God, how about all of Christendom, and he professes he sleeps one day and goes to a place of torment, seeing people there being tortured, you think he'd be teaching the truth let alone attempting to seek it and teach it himself? No.

That being said, by all means team cybele can go first for in relation to Christendom, they love to hog the ball up and down the court.

Not being inspired means that they are NOT the mouthpiece of God. A inspired prophet IS, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Moses, etc. 

men can say whatever they want to say, but that doesn't mean it comes from God. You can go ahead and believe that there is a certain criteria established by man that makes them a mouthpiece, that's fine, it just doesn't make it so. 

[Space Merchant]

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Not being inspired means that they are NOT the mouthpiece of God.

Again - Christians are prophets NOT INSPIRED, however, they can still profess God's word when it comes to teaching, ministering and or other, although not on the high ground as they're inspired counterparts. One who is a mouthpiece of God is one who speaks God's Word, minister and professes it, following God's Word in this sense. It also pertains to a spokesmen.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

A inspired prophet IS, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Moses, etc. 

Indeed. Don't forget Aaron. He was Moses' mouthpiece, spokesmen, etc.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

men can say whatever they want to say, but that doesn't mean it comes from God. 

Pretty much what I pointed to, but ok. This also goes for the actions committed by men, and or Christians whoa re true and not true.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

you can go ahead and believe that there is a certain criteria established by man that makes them a mouthpiece,

I profess and believe what the Bible teachings, as with Jesus' church. As I have said already, anyone can make the claim that they are the mouthpiece of God, what it comes down to is those who are doing things pertaining to God's will and purpose. Reasons why I gave example of such one like Martinez, who, he spoken of as a mouthpiece of God but teachings false teachings concerning one being able to see or have visions of a realm that does not originate with God whereas another, who says they are God's mouthpiece and speaks truth to claim in regards to such ones like Martinez.

Again we see here you do not even understand exactly what I've said.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

that's fine, it just doesn't make it so. 

My point was already made now and months ago that concise with the truth of what I said concerning God's Kingdom and his people. Those who God puts forth, those who are for his son, will always speak and teach what is true, in a world that teaches something that is not of the church.

That being said, it would be foolish and erroneous for any man to speak and teach of things that does not originate with God, does not originate with what Jesus taught, does not originate with the church or the Kingdom, etc. For even false prophets and teachers of this world who makes claim show the fruits they grow - in this sense, the teaching of something that God himself drove out of the land and detests.

[Shiwiii]

15 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Again - Christians are prophets NOT INSPIRED, however, they can still profess God's word when it comes to teaching, ministering and or other, although not on the high ground as they're inspired counterparts. One who is a mouthpiece of God is one who speaks God's Word, minister and professes it, following God's Word in this sense. It also pertains to a spokesmen.

you don't get it, or you just don't like to admit you're wrong. 

Not inspired = not the mouthpiece. 

 

[Space Merchant]

On 3/12/2019 at 11:50 AM, Shiwiii said:

you don't get it, or you just don't like to admit you're wrong. 

Probably because I am not?

On 3/12/2019 at 11:50 AM, Shiwiii said:

Not inspired = not the mouthpiece. 

So may I ask, what of those that preached the gospel of the good news and the Messianic Age i.e. public proclamation of the inspired things/events from Scripture? Are you purposely leaving them out? Not to knock on the false teachers out there, but they too are doing the same blinding people, are they not speaking as well? The distinction between true and false, those who are of what is true will indeed speak up.

That being said, a spokesman, mouthpiece and or delegatee, etc. there are many terms.

Also you are forgetting, Christians (Prophets who are not inspired and not infallible) have gifts of the spirit in regards to proclaiming God's Word, thus they are mouthpieces/spokesman of God YHWH. Surely you know the difference between and can make the distinction between an inspired Prophet such as the ones you mentioned, and a not inspired Prophet who are commonly known as Christians today. One thing both of these types have in common is that they profess God, are like spokesman concerning God and so forth.

Don't go about things in a simplistic manner, Shiwiii.

Now, although those who bear testimony to having so called visions, they make the claim that God uses them as representatives, as his spokesmen, but clearly you see by such, they are teaching something that is not of the church. The boy mentioned the crusaders, militant Christians, they claim they are of God, but would be quick to take a firearm in threat to men, women and children should they go to the extreme, as a recent discussion this was revealed some months ago, and although all of them vary, they have a crazy view of what they see as just and thinking God Wills it (Deus vult).

[Shiwiii]

15 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Don't go about things in a simplistic manner, Shiwiii.

oh sm, why not? I mean simplistic is very easy to understand, its only when folks like yourself, who add all kinds of arbitrary meanings and definitions, who purposely create complexity so that by the time someone has tried to sift through all that mess, they give up and say "uncle". 

There is a significant difference between a person stating scripture and explaining it, and one who proclaims to be God's mouthpiece. You just don't see it and want to make your statement so convoluted that people give up. No, a person who is proclaiming the Gospel is still not God's mouthpiece. They are proclaiming and pointing to Gods Word, but are not God's mouthpiece. You don't have to agree and can make up whatever you want, but the end result is that you have not convinced me and based on the replies of almost no one else, you haven't convinced anyone else either. 

 

[Space Merchant]

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

oh sm, why not? I mean simplistic is very easy to understand, its only when folks like yourself, who add all kinds of arbitrary meanings and definitions, who purposely create complexity so that by the time someone has tried to sift through all that mess, they give up and say "uncle". 

Don't blame me for stating something that is true. I need not have to explain to you something that is literally simple, after all, all the Christians that lived before us, our brothers and our sisters of the church, it should be obvious to you. Clearly they are not like Moses, David, etc, but they did have something in common, they proclaimed who God is, his Kingdom and all that pertains to it, hence, they are spokesman, mouth and or mouthpiece, declarees, advocates, prophets, etc.

Give up? I value discussion.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

There is a significant difference between a person stating scripture and explaining it, and one who proclaims to be God's mouthpiece. You just don't see it and want to make your statement so convoluted that people give up.

I've only made the response because of what you said as seen here:

On 3/12/2019 at 11:50 AM, Shiwiii said:

Not inspired = not the mouthpiece. 

If I am wrong, as I told you in question, what of the good news gospel and the Messianic Age? All things pertaining to God that is spoken of by Christians, as well as the false prophets and teachers out there? There is Truth and there is Untruths, those who speak the truth will speak up.

That being said, the leaders of Judah thought of Isaiah to be crazy when he not only repeat himself, but was speaking quite a lot regarding warning.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

No, a person who is proclaiming the Gospel is still not God's mouthpiece.

So when someone is speaking the gospel of the good news, what are they professing if not of God? I am sure you are aware that even angels in Bible times were God's mouthpieces as well, example, Genesis 16:10-11, Genesis 22:10-12.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

They are proclaiming and pointing to Gods Word, but are not God's mouthpiece.

Ok, my point exactly. Such ones proclaim God's Words, speaking and proclaiming the message, which pertains to what I had said.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

You don't have to agree and can make up whatever you want

I don't make things up but ok.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

but the end result is that you have not convinced me and based on the replies of almost no one else, you haven't convinced anyone else either. 

How are you so sure I haven't convinced anyone? If the Bible speakth something, it will be said. No one is ignorant to the fact that God uses angels and people, even speaks trough them and or uses them to push his message, Shaliach Principle being an example, which the person in question is a spokesman and or mouthpiece. For us Christians today, we are spreading God's Word and proclaiming the message, although we are not like our prophet inspired counterparts, we have the gifts of the spirit still and able to do God's will by such.

That being said, there are indeed false prophets out there, some of which who preach and teach that God has given them visions of hell, people being tormented in it, burned, eaten, what have you. They make claim that they are God's spokesman, or in this case, God's mouthpiece, but they are teaching a message that is not of the church, not of God, but of man.

[Equivocation]

@Space Merchant That's because people believe some Christians who preach these things. It's not only the fact that they say they have visions, but they teach future prediction, when we know that no one after the Apostles is inspired in that level. But yeah, proclaiming the message and all that, this is true.

Some would consider Christians to actually be prophets but as you said it comes down to who is actually speaking the truth. 

Also people consider or say prophets are preachers. And of course we have preachers who are saying things that are totally beyond what the Bible teaches. 

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

That's because people believe some Christians who preach these things.

Soothing emotional words that tickle the ears. Such ones people will believe. They or their flock will speak of such ones as God's chosen one, mouthpiece, God's sole servant, what have you, but such ones speak ill doctrine, hence the term false prophet/teacher used unto such ones.

Back to the topic at hand here, people who make claim to these visions will often get folks by means of strong words and emotion, and we have the end result of those who make claim to vision, the best example I can find is here: https://listverse.com/2014/02/20/10-visions-of-hell-that-will-scare-the-crap-out-of-you/

One lie that so called false prophets in Christendom often teach is indeed what is being discussed here, for not only they make claim to these visions, but also, they will say that God punishes the evil men, deceased, with eternal torment in the lake of fire.

The falsehood can easily be read out in this sense, when we read the Bible, we know that God is indeed love, and God would not be able to send deceased, those who are not living, those who are dead, to be committed to harm if they perish, conscious of nothing at all.

I am sure your faith community is already aware, but the lake of fire, which is Gehenna, is symbolic, a place of everlasting destruction. Something that has cease from existence by means of Gehenna cannot succumb to what today's mainstream Christendom preaches or Christian prophets such as those mentioned in this sense. Truly I say, it is not that difficult to spot such.

But this is merely one of such teachings from those who proclaim that God is with them or that they are speakers of the Most High God.

That being said, reminds me of a recent discussion with someone, who ended up attacking everyone for not believing in these testimonies. Yet one girl, her English was not that great she is from Dominican Republic, mentioned a testimony she was aware of and could not believe God to be the villain in this sense, only for the one I discussed with to call her a lair, after he himself professed such visions as an absolute truth. Another told me that this misguided Christian is a lost cause, so I had to cease discussion with him, even going about calling the misguided one depraved minded. But I continued, thinking that he could see the truth of the Bible, but he refused, calling everyone, even those who were seeking to learn to read the Bible, agents of the Devil.

This alone shows you the state of mind in what mainstream Christendom teaches vs. those who are not of the mainstream. The funny thing is there was a guy who said Jesus quoted, used Bible citations of the Old Testament, the misguided Christian said Jesus never quoted the Old Testament - that remark there is equated to the hill he died on in regards to this discussion. Mind you this is one of many, and there is always discussion, debate, etc. when it comes to these things, but in the end, truth always stands firm.

[Shiwiii]

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Don't blame me for stating something that is true. I need not have to explain to you something that is literally simple, after all, all the Christians that lived before us, our brothers and our sisters of the church, it should be obvious to you. Clearly they are not like Moses, David, etc, but they did have something in common, they proclaimed who God is, his Kingdom and all that pertains to it, hence, they are spokesman, mouth and or mouthpiece, declarees, advocates, prophets, etc.

Give up? I value discussion.

I've only made the response because of what you said as seen here:

If I am wrong, as I told you in question, what of the good news gospel and the Messianic Age? All things pertaining to God that is spoken of by Christians, as well as the false prophets and teachers out there? There is Truth and there is Untruths, those who speak the truth will speak up.

That being said, the leaders of Judah thought of Isaiah to be crazy when he not only repeat himself, but was speaking quite a lot regarding warning.

So when someone is speaking the gospel of the good news, what are they professing if not of God? I am sure you are aware that even angels in Bible times were God's mouthpieces as well, example, Genesis 16:10-11, Genesis 22:10-12.

Ok, my point exactly. Such ones proclaim God's Words, speaking and proclaiming the message, which pertains to what I had said.

I don't make things up but ok.

How are you so sure I haven't convinced anyone? If the Bible speakth something, it will be said. No one is ignorant to the fact that God uses angels and people, even speaks trough them and or uses them to push his message, Shaliach Principle being an example, which the person in question is a spokesman and or mouthpiece. For us Christians today, we are spreading God's Word and proclaiming the message, although we are not like our prophet inspired counterparts, we have the gifts of the spirit still and able to do God's will by such.

That being said, there are indeed false prophets out there, some of which who preach and teach that God has given them visions of hell, people being tormented in it, burned, eaten, what have you. They make claim that they are God's spokesman, or in this case, God's mouthpiece, but they are teaching a message that is not of the church, not of God, but of man.

I am just going to answer with this. You can choose to pick it apart if you wish. Were these folks God's mouthpiece based on the criteria you claim? 

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[Space Merchant]

On 3/15/2019 at 2:19 PM, Shiwiii said:

I am just going to answer with this. You can choose to pick it apart if you wish. Were these folks God's mouthpiece based on the criteria you claim? 

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

Reasons why I had already stated that even those who make claim to being the mouthpiece of God, thinking that they are in the correct, but are not, who are liken to the passage you just quoted, my favorite one by the way, mainly verse 23.

People like Pastor Mario Martinez will make such claims, but what they teach is not of the church at all, not of the 'Christ or God. Hence when one says they are the mouthpiece or spokesman of God, a declaree, faith of what they profess must be aligned with Jesus' Church, be it they are of it or strive to be as such.

That being said, why would I pick part? You pretty much agreed with me concerning my other responses.

Therefore, any man who teaches that God is for or supports what he drove out of the land is incorrect, and in the wrong, hence, topic.

[Shiwiii]

12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, why would I pick part? You pretty much agreed with me concerning my other responses.

no, I didn't agree with you. You said that pretty much anyone who proclaims God is a mouthpiece for God. I disagree. Matthew 7:21  states exactly my point. Not all who claim to be the mouthpiece of God really are. 

[Space Merchant]

On 3/19/2019 at 4:02 PM, Shiwiii said:

no, I didn't agree with you. You said that pretty much anyone who proclaims God is a mouthpiece for God. I disagree. Matthew 7:21  states exactly my point. Not all who claim to be the mouthpiece of God really are. 

Exactly because there are those out there who say they are God's mouthpiece or they are spokesman of God declaring the message to which they preach and teach otherwise, i.e. Mario Martinez who says he is a spokesman of God but teaches and preaches people like him can have visions and see Hell itself, people being tormented in Hell and so forth. So what was said is on equal footing, granted I had stated the distinction between a prophets who are not inspired, ones being true ones and ones being false.

That being said, indeed anyone can say they are God's mouthpiece, but among them there are false ones, which the verse you profess also adds on to what was originally said. Actual prophets, Christians, there are those who are God's spokesman who indeed speaks truth and such ones Jesus will recognize.