JW Canada: Judge authorizes class action for Jehovah's Witnesses sex abuse victims

[Shiwiii]

Aren't all jws consider ministers? 

 

15. What happens when a person gets baptized? (See also footnote.)

¹⁵ Eventually, the Bible student, having developed a love of Jehovah God and a strong faith in the ransom sacrifice, wishes to dedicate himself completely to his heavenly Father. (John 14:1) He makes that dedication in personal prayer and then gets baptized as a public symbol of that private act. His baptism is  his ordination ceremony because that is when he is recognized as a fully dedicated servant, a di·aʹko·nos, of God. He must remain separate from the world. (John 17:16; James 4:4) He has presented his whole self “a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God” without reserve or condition. (Romans 12:1) * He is God’s minister, imitating Christ.

The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  November 15, 2000

 

 

So wouldn't Anna's comment be correct? "we" 

[Anna]

3 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Aren't all jws consider ministers? 

Yes, they are. But not all ministers are considered clergy, because not all ministers are shepherds.

So my saying "we" was still wrong.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

15. What happens when a person gets baptized? (See also footnote.)

¹⁵ Eventually, the Bible student, having developed a love of Jehovah God and a strong faith in the ransom sacrifice, wishes to dedicate himself completely to his heavenly Father. (John 14:1) He makes that dedication in personal prayer and then gets baptized as a public symbol of that private act. His baptism is  his ordination ceremony because that is when he is recognized as a fully dedicated servant, a di·aʹko·nos, of God. He must remain separate from the world. (John 17:16; James 4:4) He has presented his whole self “a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God” without reserve or condition. (Romans 12:1) * He is God’s minister, imitating Christ.

The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  November 15, 2000

So wouldn't Anna's comment be correct? "we"  

I will believe THAT, if Anna baptizes her Bible Study in a neighbor's pool, and Anna does not get disfellowshipped, and the baptism "nullified".

[Anna]

40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Anna  I do worry about you. And when you said 'we' I almost knew you meant the Elders. So then it got me thinking are you in fact a man, an Elder.

However, you seem to talk in different manners at different times, making me think that you are different people. Possibly two or more people using the same name on the same computer, working as a team.. 

The expression 'My bad' seems to only come from one of your personas. But in other cases you talk correctly.  Confusing to say the least. 

You are overthinking it John! I am just an ordinary sister. And I explained why I said "we".

[TrueTomHarley]

*

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There IS a difference !

If you are paid, you are clergy.

If you do it for money, you are clergy.

If you are a “mercenary minister,” you are clergy.

If you do it out of love for God and neighbor, and do not collect pay, then you are not clergy and you are NOT extended the same privileges as they for the spiritual aspects of the job. 

If you can shake the congregation down for a paycheck, then you ARE extended those privileges 

Is that what you are trying to say?

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If you can shake the congregation down for a paycheck, then you ARE extended those privileges 

Is that what you are trying to say?

If this is true TTH .... AND IT'S NOT ... Why does the WTB&TS represent themselves in court case after court case .... AS CLERGY ... in order to not have to tell the secrets they are privy to, that in the genuine public interest .... our own ... and outsiders .. there needs to be full disclosure, and reporting as a MORAL imperative ...screw getting a legal exemption, which they salivate and lust for ... crimes to the Civil Authorities?

I did not TRY to say anything other than what I did say.

AS USUAL, your agenda driven thinking caused you to deliberately misunderstand, and attempt diversion and obfuscation.

Theoretically, like us, no Catholic clergy gets a paycheck ... but like us ...  in most cases ....   they get all expenses covered, and never miss a meal, sleep cold, or dress shabbily.

I have done all three WITH a paycheck.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, under the law, we are LABELED, ministers because of our ecclesiastical WORK. This is regardless if a person gets paid or not. Was Jesus paid? Where the Apostles?

This is NOT true ... from the legal sources you yourself quoted earlier ... go back and read your own citations.

Your agenda has clouded your reading comprehension and perception skills.

If we lable OURSELVES Clergy, which the Society HAS DONE .... we are saddled with the law regarding Clergy

In the United States, the government cannot label your religious affiliated people "Clergy" ... separation of Church and State. They cannot even question you about ANY beliefs or labels you GIVE YOURSELVES.

It is the WTB&TS that is claiming CLERGY PRIVILEGE ... not them ( the government) assigning it, which is illegal.

[TrueTomHarley]

8 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

There are times a lawyer gives service without compensation. Does that lawyer stop being a lawyer because he didn't get paid? 

Of course not.

It is an argument almost too stupid to make. I can’t believe that people are nevertheless making it with regard to who gets to be counted as clergy.

The only brand of religion that an irreligious world recognizes is a monetized one, in which the minister “has a church” and “gets paid.”

Try to do it as did Jesus or Paul and you are incomprehensible to them.

[JOHN BUTLER]

Um, so, if all are Ministers in the JW Org, then all those that commit the crime of Child Abuse in the Org are Ministers.

So it could rightly be said that JW Ministers commit Child Abuse. Some of those ministers are JW Clergy  

Child Abuse is not funny, but this forum is funny. 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

John: The logic of your argument is inescapable ... or at least beyond my abilities to misconstrue.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The only brand of religion that an irreligious world recognizes is a monetized one, in which the minister “has a church” and “gets paid.”

Try to do it as did Jesus or Paul and you are incomprehensible to them.

That is EXACTLY why it is blatantly STUPID .... to label YOURSELF as CLERGY.

It's like deliberately  running into an incoming  shoulder-thrown fist from professionals that needed your cooperation to break your skull

I believe it is time for BillytheKid46 to post something irrelevant and off point now, so I will yield the floor ....