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JOHN BUTLER -
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I was having a discussion on here somewhere with someone, concerning the IICSA investigation into JW Org in the UK. 

I've just received this email from them so thought I'd put it up on here for people to look at. 

It doesn't copy and paste exactly as it looks on my email, but here it is anyway :- 

Our reference: IICSA-0013979


 

Dear Mr Butler

Thank you for contacting the Inquiry on 3 February.

As you may be aware, the Inquiry is investigating institutional failure to protect children from sexual abuse in the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches. In June 2015 it issued a retention order covering documents of interest to the Inquiry to the leaders of 18 prominent religious organisations, including the Jehovah's Witnesses.  

The Inquiry has received correspondence from a considerable number of individuals raising concerns about child sexual abuse within Jehovah's Witnesses organisations. At present the Inquiry is committed to delivering its existing programme and is not currently launching any new investigations. However, as our work progresses, we will consider calls for a Jehovah's Witnesses specific investigation carefully.

Any updates on our investigations, including scope and hearings can be found on our website at www.iicsa.org.uk/investigations

 

I am sorry for the delay in responding to you and I hope that you have found this information useful. If you have any questions regarding the contents of this email, please do not hesitate to contact the Inquiry again.

Yours sincerely

UHwMgbEAeZwPWWchqrL6Nzal_p66I-zHXg2kbL1o

Jodie Yarborough

Head of Correspondence & Engagement Team

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

 

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1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This must be extremely stressful to you, since the link you supplied points to 13 specific areas of inquiry, all but the first thought to be possible hotbeds of CSA, and the religion you despise is not among them.

From the email I received. " In June 2015 it issued a retention order covering documents of interest to the Inquiry to the leaders of 18 prominent religious organisations, including the Jehovah's Witnesses. " 

18 different religions, apart from all the government departments and other institutions. So give them a chance.

It doesn't say that the JW Org is not worth investigating does it ? It's just not top priority. 

It is sad for the victims of JW Org sexual abuse here in the UK to have to wait longer, but I think the investigation will happen in time.

As for me despising any religion well those are your words Tom not mine.  

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7 minutes ago, Anna said:

@JOHN BUTLER Have you heard anything from when you tried to contact the Police about the abuse in your old hall?

No. But I gave them enough details in one message that it should have got some sort of response. 

They have my name and email address. They have the KH address. They have all the information I have. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

They have my name and email address. They have the KH address. They have all the information I have. 

John:

Short if vigilante justice, which often is not even remotely connected to Justice ... your job is DONE!

I am proud of you, after all these month's of discussion that wandered the known universe of thought, to "pull the trigger".

Sleep well at night, and forget about it.

You earned it!

 

 

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On 3/15/2019 at 10:21 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

But I gave them enough details in one message

Good fortune with your endeavours - most probably they will only follow up on the JW to make one good example to the nation of him.......  They only do something when the person is poor with no influence or is not from the protected minority groups.

We all know they have tons of child trafficking groups in England who are protected by the upper echelons of society.   Muslims marry 9 year olds  against their will and rape young girls in gangs with impunity. Why  they even have princes  who get away with child sex. .....

I often wonder why they only target the JWs (who do not condone this behaviour but seem to have a few degenerates among them) ..... but balk from becoming activists against an injust police /justice system in their own country -  which not only condones it - but cover up evidence and in some cases persecute those who expose child sex rings and  human trafficking  of children for sex.   Some even go to prison for exposing child rape gangs.

 

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@Anna Now that you mentioned it I remember that too. So far no information I had seen in the UK regarding the mental ill person who committed the act. For the past few months I was focused on not just my ministry, but grave things concerning csa in several parts of the world.

@Arauna The UK is far worse when it comes to child abuse. So much as so, some even commit the idea that the gov't let's certain folks go, while some who they do not recognize are the ones to be sent away; locked up.

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On 3/15/2019 at 12:21 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

No. But I gave them enough details in one message that it should have got some sort of response. 

They have my name and email address. They have the KH address. They have all the information I have. 

I hope you have firsthand knowledge and the information wasn't given to you by a third party that you submitted. That kind of exposure can have consequences. However, concerning the letter. The point to consider is no new investigations are being conducted in their inquiry. 

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      Religious sect Jehovah’s Witnesses has refused to hand over documents to the public prosecutor in which an ex-member admits the abuse of a child, also member of the sect at the time, RTL Nieuws reports. Samet G, now 31, was a minor himself when the abuse of his 4 year-old niece started. The abuse continued until she was 14 and was reported to the police in 2015 when the girl and her mother left the Christian sect. A court in Breda last week sentenced G to a 9 months suspended sentence and a fine for the abuse but did not have access to the confession, which dates from 2011. G is appealing against his conviction.
      JehovahÂ’s Witnesses have their own internal committees which sit in judgement in cases of sexual abuse and do not involve the police. A record of these proceedings is made and kept. According to RTL, the public prosecutorÂ’s request for a copy of the confession was refused on the grounds that it would compromise the manÂ’s privacy and that, by law, clergymen, or in this case the elders, cannot be forced to reveal what has been told to them in confidence. Although there is doubt among lawyers that the JehovahÂ’s Witnesses elders can claim this right, the public prosecutor accepted the refusal, RTL writes.
      The sect also refuses to cooperate in an independent inquiry and, according to minister for legal protection Sander Dekker, it cannot be forced to do so. Abuse survivors According to Reclaimed Voices, an organisation that helps ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses members who were victims of sexual abuse, the minister needs to do much more. ‘If we can’t get the files via the courts we need politicians to act. Someone must force the Jehovah’s Witnesses to hand them over,’ the organisation’s spokesman Frank Huiting told RTL. CDA MP Madeleine van Toorenburg and other MPs have asked the minister to investigate if Jehovah’s Witness have the right to refuse access to documents that might shed light on a criminal case and slated the sect’s ‘culture of silence and cover-ups,’ RTL writes. Jehovah’s Witnesses are being widely accused of silencing victims of sexual abuse within the sect. The Guardian newspaper recently uncovered a case involving at least 100 victims who claim to have been abused.

      Read more at DutchNews.nl
    • By Jack Ryan
      The Flemish Parliament has opened an inquiry into the child abuse policies and cover ups of Jehovah's Witnesses. The investigation is collecting complaints, not to make their stories public but to start an official investigation into the child abuse policies of Jehovah's Witness groups.
      http://www.flanderstoday.eu/politics/parliament-apologises-victims-childhood-sexual-abuse
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    • All jokes have to have an element of truth ..... and THIS one certainly does!
    • It's a difficult doctrine, with an easy explanation. The Earth is about 3.5 billion years old. Each creative day is (3.5 billion divided by 7 = 500,000,000) about 500 million years.. Armageddon will occur at the "End of Days". Therefore ... "Stay Alive, 'till 500,001,975". See? The math works out perfectly, AND it agrees with fossils ! TA DA! Plus! --- the .ORG gets a LOT of "wiggle room". As Marvin Webster sez: "Ya'll think about it."    
    • Like you, I find it difficult to envision Christ's enthronement in 33 CE, for pretty much the same reasons as you. The urgency and keeping on the watch would almost seem cruel, if it was to last nearly 2000 years. Unless you think about those who have been waiting since the end of the 1800's and that have now died. Well for them, it was a lifetime of waiting anyway, so pretty much we could say that there would be no difference between someone waiting their whole lifetime in the middle ages and dying, than someone waiting their whole lifetime and dying now. I mean with respect to the individual. It seems like the scripture "Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace"  would have practical meaning for both individuals. I am assuming that most ordinary folk (at least in Christianized nations) were aware that if they lived a good and godly life they would land in heaven. That was the reward. But you do make a good point when you say that the holy writings were not accessible to ordinary folk, and most couldn't read so would they even know  what Peter wrote about in 2 Peter ch3? On top of that, "Christian" religion, Catholicism, did not advocate millennialism much, if at all. It wasn't until the protestant reformation in the 16 the century that millenialism was revived. Excerpt from the Catholic encyclopedia: (I don't expect you to read it all, just here for info) " Protestant fanatics (lol) of the earlier years, particularly the Anabaptists, believed in a new, golden age under the sceptre of Christ, after the overthrow of the papacy and secular empires. In 1534 the Anabaptists set up in Münster (Westphalia) the new Kingdom of Zion, which advocated sharing property and women in common, as a prelude to the new kingdom of Christ. Their excesses were opposed and their millenarianism disowned by both the Augsberg (art. 17) and the Helvetian Confession (ch. 11), so that it found no admission into the Lutheran and Reformed theologies. Nevertheless, the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries produced new apocalyptic fanatics (lol) and mystics who expected the millennium in one form or another: in Germany, the Bohemian and Moravian Brethren (Comenius); in France, Pierre Jurien (L'Accomplissement des Propheties, 1686); in England at the time of Cromwell, the Independents and Jane Leade. A new phase in the development of millenarian views among the Protestants commenced with Pietism. One of the chief champions of the millennium in Germany was I.A. Bengel and his disciple Crusius, who were afterwards joined by Rothe, Volch, Thiersch, Lange and others. Protestants from Wurtemberg emigrated to Palestine (Temple Communities) in order to be closer to Christ at His second advent. Certain fantastical sects of England and North America, such as the Irvingites, Mormons, Adventists, adopted both apocalyptic and millenarian views, expecting the return of Christ and the establishment of His kingdom at an early date. Some Catholic theologians of the nineteenth century championed a moderate, modified millenarianism, especially in connection with their explanations of the Apocalypse. So it would appear that anyone living from 33 C.E  up to the 16th century (apart from the disciples and early Christian congregation, and some early church fathers) would have no idea about even the existence of the coming of Christ as king of a 1000 year kingdom...  
    • No idea. The primary point was that people would tremble at such signs in the heavens. A space race with military implications was already hinted at in part of the yw book, which was already about Daniel and therefore had the king of the north in its sights.
    • Another sinister feather in the cap of the northern king. Did he want to tie in the Daniel prophesy?
    • Since you are asking, I'll take a cue from 1 Peter 3:15 and let you know what I'm thinking here. First of all we already believe that Jesus began to rule in 33. (I hope that was a mistake where you said 1933.) (Colossians 1:13-20) . . .He rescued us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all other things by making peace through the blood he shed on the torture stake, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens. There is no indication here that the Kingdom of God's Son is any different than the Kingdom of God which had now become the Kingdom of his Christ. In fact, you might notice a couple of other parallels between Colossians and Revelation, including the hurling down of Satan (rescuing us from the authority of the darkness). Also, perhaps by coincidence, the immediate context of Colossians also discussed the salvation and the power and the Kingdom and the authority and the conquering through the blood of the Lamb. (Revelation 12:10, 11) . . .Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. The idea that Satan was cast down in 33 is also repeated several times in the Greek Scriptures.
    • One unanticipated personal consequence of going digital is that I read nothing until the week it is to be considered at meeting. I have not read the new Ezekiel book yet. Back in the day of subscriptions, I would read that entire Watchtower at the nearest opportunity. Doesn’t happen anymore. I never think to download the latest until I need it. In recent years I’ve come to think a lot about Paul’s counsel to follow the pattern of the healthful words. At first, the healthful words are retrieved and spit out verbatim—it is the nature of much of our research. But if you’ve been around long enough, you soon to learn to pick up on the pattern and you can originate them yourself.  It is as Mike Tussin used to say, a real person from No Fake News whose name I changed with the most sordid upbringing and the most telling common sense. He would explain how it was with the GB (in the 1970s). “They study and study and one of them notices a point and discusses it with the others. After subsequent discussion reaches agreement, it gets into print. Now, in your own personal study, you may have noticed that point, too,” I can hear him explaining now, “and if this was Christendom, you’d go out and start your own religion over it.”  For a brief time, he was a roommate of mine. He drove me nuts in taking literally the admonition to read God’s Word “in an undertone day and night.” In time, he learned that he had better not do it in my presence.
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